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Alyssa S
Sep 29th 2008, 08:13 PM
Is anyone familiar with the Eclipses and Blood Moons that are suppose to take place in 2014-2015 that fall on God's annual Holy Days? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63076

Realizing that Scripture says we will not know the "day or the hour," I believe it is *possible* to know the season to "watch" as we are commanded.

Is there anyone who knows the end times well enough to tell me if they think there is anything significant to this, and if it is POSSIBLE at all that Jesus could return in 7 years based off of this lunar and solar eclipse?

Too, I am of Post-Trib belief. Can this fall in line with a Post-Tribber? It is interesting that TODAY at sunset is the beginning of the new 7 year sabbatical cycle (Feast of Trumpets), and Congress just said "NO" to the bailout. Could the Tribulation begin?

God bless!
Alyssa

third hero
Sep 29th 2008, 08:27 PM
You know, eclipses do not mean anything. Even if a "Blood Moon" really does happen in 2015, that alone means nothing. Have you seen a Moonrise? It's orange. Some would say that it is red, like the color of blood. But again, that is insignificant. When you see the Sun turn to darkness, and the moon not shining at all, and the stars disappears, then we can say that the Lord is coming, because that is the sign, not the blood red moon sign.

IBWatching
Sep 29th 2008, 08:27 PM
...Can this fall in line with a Post-Tribber?...

This is a pre-trib "thingie". Rosh aligns with "blood" moon cycle next in 2015, thus:

2015
minus 7 year tribulation
equals 2008
equals rapture

While the rapture could occur in 2008, I doubt that dates will ultimately align. Thus, this is just another "date setting" guess. It's all over the internet. Just Google it.

teddyv
Sep 29th 2008, 10:47 PM
According to an ad in that World Net Daily article we are going to get hit by a comet or asteroid in 2012, so I guess it's a moot point.:P

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 04:07 AM
Is anyone familiar with the Eclipses and Blood Moons that are suppose to take place in 2014-2015 that fall on God's annual Holy Days? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63076

Realizing that Scripture says we will not know the "day or the hour," I believe it is *possible* to know the season to "watch" as we are commanded.

Is there anyone who knows the end times well enough to tell me if they think there is anything significant to this, and if it is POSSIBLE at all that Jesus could return in 7 years based off of this lunar and solar eclipse?

Too, I am of Post-Trib belief. Can this fall in line with a Post-Tribber? It is interesting that TODAY at sunset is the beginning of the new 7 year sabbatical cycle (Feast of Trumpets), and Congress just said "NO" to the bailout. Could the Tribulation begin?

God bless!
AlyssaMy opinion (and that's all it is, is just my opinion) is that the events surrounding the sun, moon, and stars in conjunction with the 2nd Coming are supernatural and cannot be explained in terms that we can understand, such as what you are suggesting here. The Bible makes it clear that the people on the earth at the time these events take place are terrified by them. If such events from a natural perspective were terrifying, like an eclipse, then the whole world would have been in a panic last spring when we had a blood-moon eclipse. Instead, people were outside oohing and awwing at it. So there has to be something to the events at the 2nd Coming that cannot be explained in terms that we can understand based on what we see of the universe's normal functioning. I suspect that when the time comes it will happen in a way that would never have occurred to us because it will be outside the scope of our experience. Hence, that's precisely why people all over the world will be terrified.

Hope this helps. :yes:

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 04:17 AM
...not the blood red moon sign.Revelation 6:12 - "...the whole moon turned blood red..."

third hero
Sep 30th 2008, 04:53 AM
Revelation 6:12 - "...the whole moon turned blood red..."

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:13-17

Seriously. When can the world tell us that the Lord has come? What is the sign of His coming?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:29

Now, tell me what that means if it does not mean that the Moon will give out no light at all? See, there's a difference, and that is all of the difference in the world. Jesus gave us the sign, and thus any other sign is not the sign of His return, but a sign of something else.

So, what is the blood red sign used for?

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Revelation 7:3-4

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:30-31

Well, what do we have here? It looks like a match. The Moon turning blood red is the sign of the Lord bringing a remnant back to Him, and sealing them with His seal. What remnant? The remnant of Israel. 144,000 from all of the tribes of Israel, I would say, is a small remnant out of a nation of around 6 million or so. See the difference?

BTW.

The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp [is] very great: for [he is] strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD [is] great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Joel 2:10-11

The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I [am] the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. Joel 3:15-17

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 12:44 PM
You know, eclipses do not mean anything. Even if a "Blood Moon" really does happen in 2015, that alone means nothing. Have you seen a Moonrise? It's orange. Some would say that it is red, like the color of blood. But again, that is insignificant. When you see the Sun turn to darkness, and the moon not shining at all, and the stars disappears, then we can say that the Lord is coming, because that is the sign, not the blood red moon sign.

Hello, my brother. I didn't think I'd see the day that I actually disagree with you about something! But I think a blood-red moon is highly significant, for the following reasons:

In Rev.6: 9, when the angel opens the FIFTH seal, the souls of all those who through time had been martyred for their testimony to the word of God, are seen to be asking the LORD how long it will be until He avenges their blood on those who dwell on the earth – but they are told to wait a little while longer, until the full number of their brothers and fellow-servants who are to be martyred as they were, is complete.

Immediately afterward, with the opening of the SIXTH seal, THE SUN becomes “Black as sackcloth of hair”, and THE MOON becomes the color of blood – and THEN we read about THE WRATH of God FOLLOWING these events:-

Revelation 6 verse 9 to Revelation 7 verse 17:

(A) The cry of the martyrs (the FIFTH seal), THE SUN BECOMES BLACK AND THE MOON BECOMES THE COLOR OF BLOOD (the SIXTH seal); and the WRATH of God FOLLOWS (Rev.6: 9-17); and

(B) “THE FOUR WINDS” of these cataclysmic events are held back until 144,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel have been sealed with the seal of God (Rev.7: 1-8); and

( C ) John THEN sees a multitude OF SAINTS in heaven from all nations, tribes and tongues, who had come out from THE GREAT TRIBULATION (Greek: MEGAS THLIPSIS) (Rev.7: 9-17).

“THE SUN shall be turned into darkness, and THE MOON into blood, BEFORE the GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.” (Joel 2: 31).

In Mat.24: 29-31, the sun and moon are darkened “immediately after” the days of “great tribulation” (Mat.24: 21-28), and this coincides with the gathering of Christ's elect.

Is there anything in the Bible which gives us a clue as to whether the sun becoming black and the moon turning the color of blood symbolizes something?

In fact, we will find quite a few scriptures where the sun and the moon symbolize things:

“I will not break My covenant, nor change the thing that has gone out of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness that I will not lie to David...

... His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as THE SUN before Me. It shall be established forever like THE MOON, and like A FAITHFUL WITNESS in the heavens. Selah.” (Ps.89: 34-37).

According to the Bible, king David's throne is the eternal throne of Jesus Christ (who is the incarnate Word of God); and just as the sun provides the world with PHYSICAL light, so the Word of God provides the world with SPIRITUAL light.

THE MOON is THE FAITHFUL WITNESS OF THE SUN (Ps.89: 37), because it reflects the light of the sun.

In Proverbs we read,

“A faithful witness will not lie, but a false witness will speak lies.” (Pro.14: 5); and in Revelation we read that the Lord Jesus Christ is “… the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” (Rev.3: 14).

1 Joseph, one of Israel's twelve sons, once dreamed a dream in which he saw THE SUN, THE MOON, and the other eleven stars bowing before him. Joseph was one of the twelve “stars”, or the twelve tribes of Israel (Gen.37: 9), and Joseph's dream was a picture of the nation of Israel. The dream came true much later, when Joseph became ruler over all Egypt under Pharaoh, and all Israel bowed down to him.

2 “The woman” of Revelation chapter twelve (who brought the Messiah into the world) is pictured “CLOTHED WITH THE SUN, with THE MOON under her feet and a garland of twelve stars on her head” (Rev.12: 1).

In other words, “the woman” of Revelation chapter 12 is clothed with the glory of God - “the sun” symbolizes THE WORD OF GOD, and the male Child she brings into the world is THE INCARNATE WORD OF GOD. The twelve stars symbolize the twelve tribes of Israel – the nation TO WHOM the Word of God came, and THROUGH WHOM the Word of God came into the world.

After her Child (“who is going to rule all nations with a rod of iron”) had been “caught up to God and to His throne” (Rev.12: 5), the devil was cast out of heaven, and went to war against “the woman” and “THE REST OF HER SEED, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev.12: 6-17).

Gen3: 15 says,

“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He will bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.” (Gen.3: 15).

This shows that “the woman” of Revelation 12 is typified by “the woman” of Gen3: 15.

3 When the incarnate Word of God was crucified, THE SUN WAS LITERALLY DARKENED:

“And from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?” (Mat.27: 45-46).

Therefore the moon symbolizes the chosen nation which, as a faithful witness, reflects the light of the Word of God (the sun) into the world.

Revelation 6 verse 9 to Revelation 7 verse 17:

(A) The cry of the martyrs (the FIFTH seal), THE SUN BECOMES BLACK AND THE MOON BECOMES THE COLOR OF BLOOD (the SIXTH seal); and the WRATH of God FOLLOWS (Rev.6: 9-17); and

(B) “THE FOUR WINDS” of these cataclysmic events are held back until 144,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel have been sealed with the seal of God (Rev.7: 1-8); and

( C ) John THEN sees a multitude OF SAINTS in heaven from all nations, tribes and tongues, who had come out from THE GREAT TRIBULATION (Greek: MEGAS THLIPSIS) (Rev.7: 9-17).


If the saints are martyred, THE MOON turns blood-red, and THE SUN (the Word of God that the witnesses of Jesus reflect to the world) is darkened - because the antichrist has overcome the saints and s preventing the gospel from going out anymore.


ananias

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 02:05 PM
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:13-17

Seriously. When can the world tell us that the Lord has come? What is the sign of His coming?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:29This is very true, and you are correct that there is a slight variance in the descriptin given by the two texts, but notice one other detail: “Hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.” Why do you suppose they would be saying that when the whole point of the Tribulation will be the most severe worldwide rebellion against God in all of history, even to the point of trying to annihilate His people from the earth? What could possibly get them to face the fact that they’ve squared off against God Himself? The only thing I can think of is that He has appeared in the sky at this point and they see Him with their own eyes, preparing to pour out His wrath. The Sixth Seal is the 2nd Coming.
Now, tell me what that means if it does not mean that the Moon will give out no light at all?Consider the mechanics of a “blood moon”. The sun’s light has been cut off from directly striking the moon’s surface such as it normally does. It is no longer reflecting the sun’s direct light. A blood moon is the result of the sun’s light being refracted around another object, normally the earth itself. There could be an argument that the two are different descriptions of the same thing. And considering the terror of the lost world who have been stubborn to the point of trying to murder all God’s people up to this point, they’ve obviously been confronted with something undeniably terrifying. I can’t think of what else it could be other than the Lord Himself being in the sky preparing to pour out His wrath on them.
See, there's a difference, and that is all of the difference in the world. Jesus gave us the sign, and thus any other sign is not the sign of His return, but a sign of something else.I would have to disagree. As I’ve described above, they appear to be the same thing to me.
So, what is the blood red sign used for?

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Revelation 7:3-4 That “sealing” of the 144,000 is the salvation of the Jewish remnant at the end of the Tribulation when the Lord appears in the sky.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:30-31

Well, what do we have here? It looks like a match. The Moon turning blood red is the sign of the Lord bringing a remnant back to Him, and sealing them with His seal. What remnant? The remnant of Israel. 144,000 from all of the tribes of Israel, I would say, is a small remnant out of a nation of around 6 million or so. See the difference?On the contrary, I see a connection. Here’s the sequence:

1. Celestial signs: sun gets blocked off/blood red moon
2. Jesus appears in the sky
3. Rapture of the saints
4. Salvation of the Israeli remnant as described in Zechariah
5. At the same time, the world’s lost react in terror because they know what’s coming
6. Day of the Lord wrath
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp [is] very great: for [he is] strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD [is] great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Joel 2:10-11

The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I [am] the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. Joel 3:15-17I completely agree with the Joel connection. :yes: The celestial signs in Joel, Isaiah 13:9-10, Matthew 24 and Revelation’s Sixth Seal are all the same event. That’s the parallel point where we can connect the prophecies together.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 02:08 PM
Hello, my brother. I didn't think I'd see the day that I actually disagree with you about something! But I think a blood-red moon is highly significant...

If the saints are martyred, THE MOON turns blood-red, and THE SUN (the Word of God that the witnesses of Jesus reflect to the world) is darkened - because the antichrist has overcome the saints and s preventing the gospel from going out anymore.Then what do you make of the "blood moon" we saw here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area last spring? I remember standing outside at about 10:30 one evening looking at it with the neighbors oohing and awwing at it. Nobody was terrified such as we see in Revelation's Sixth Seal. Why should anybody be terrified of the Sixth Seal events when the one last spring was a mere fascination?

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 02:24 PM
Then what do you make of the "blood moon" we saw here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area last spring? I remember standing outside at about 10:30 one evening looking at it with the neighbors oohing and awwing at it. Nobody was terrified such as we see in Revelation's Sixth Seal. Why should anybody be terrified of the Sixth Seal events when the one last spring was a mere fascination?

because this particular blood-red moon will result in this:

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mat 24:29-31)

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1Th 4:16-17)

"And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell; and there were killed in the earthquake seven thousand persons: and the rest were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second Woe is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, who sit before God on their thrones, fell upon their faces and worshipped God, saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who art and who wast; because thou hast taken thy great power, and didst reign. And the nations were wroth, and thy wrath came, and the time of the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name, the small and the great; and to destroy them that destroy the earth. And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Rev 11:11-19)

ananias

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 02:40 PM
because this particular blood-red moon will result in this:

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mat 24:29-31)

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1Th 4:16-17)

"And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell; and there were killed in the earthquake seven thousand persons: and the rest were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second Woe is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, who sit before God on their thrones, fell upon their faces and worshipped God, saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who art and who wast; because thou hast taken thy great power, and didst reign. And the nations were wroth, and thy wrath came, and the time of the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name, the small and the great; and to destroy them that destroy the earth. And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Rev 11:11-19)

ananiasSo how are we supposed to know that one particular "blood moon" will lead to the other events when all the previous "blood moons" from history have turned out to be nothing?

And how can you be sure that the celestial events of the 2nd Coming will be "natural" in their occurrence? Have you considered the possibility that there might be something out of the ordinary about them?

For instance, a blood moon is normally caused by the earth coming between the moon and the sun. That means that one side of the earth is still able to see the sun as normal, no problem. Yet according to the 2nd Coming texts in Isaiah 13, Joel 2, Matthew 24 and Revelation 6, the sun will go dark. The other side of the earth in this case will be unable to see the sun. That sounds pretty unusual to me. How do you explain that?

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 03:05 PM
My opinion (and that's all it is, is just my opinion) is that the events surrounding the sun, moon, and stars in conjunction with the 2nd Coming are supernatural and cannot be explained in terms that we can understand, such as what you are suggesting here. The Bible makes it clear that the people on the earth at the time these events take place are terrified by them. If such events from a natural perspective were terrifying, like an eclipse, then the whole world would have been in a panic last spring when we had a blood-moon eclipse. Instead, people were outside oohing and awwing at it. So there has to be something to the events at the 2nd Coming that cannot be explained in terms that we can understand based on what we see of the universe's normal functioning. I suspect that when the time comes it will happen in a way that would never have occurred to us because it will be outside the scope of our experience. Hence, that's precisely why people all over the world will be terrified.




So how are we supposed to know that one particular "blood moon" will lead to the other events when all the previous "blood moons" from history have turned out to be nothing?

And how can you be sure that the celestial events of the 2nd Coming will be "natural" in their occurrence? Have you considered the possibility that there might be something out of the ordinary about them?

For instance, a blood moon is normally caused by the earth coming between the moon and the sun. That means that one side of the earth is still able to see the sun as normal, no problem. Yet according to the 2nd Coming texts in Isaiah 13, Joel 2, Matthew 24 and Revelation 6, the sun will go dark. The other side of the earth in this case will be unable to see the sun. That sounds pretty unusual to me. How do you explain that?

Yes, I am considering the possibility that there might be something out of the ordinary about them - as well as the possibility that they will be natural events which "coincidentally" accompany the resurrection and removal of the saints.

I'm completely open to what you have said - I can't make up my mind completely about anything until it has happened - most prophecy is only fully understood with hindsight. Until then, we are speculating. The only thing we don't have to speculate about is the fact that our Lord is coming back and He will take us out of the world before the wrath of God is poured out upon the world.

ananias

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 03:12 PM
Yes, I am considering the possibility that there might be something out of the ordinary about them - as well as the possibility that they will be natural events which "coincidentally" accompany the resurrection and removal of the saints.

I'm completely open to what you have said - I can't make up my mind completely about anything until it has happened - most prophecy is only fully understood with hindsight. Until then, we are speculating. The only thing we don't have to speculate about is the fact that our Lord is coming back and He will take us out of the world before the wrath of God is poured out upon the world.We can agree there. :yes:

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 03:42 PM
So how are we supposed to know that one particular "blood moon" will lead to the other events when all the previous "blood moons" from history have turned out to be nothing?
quote]


It's only the blood moons that fall on Jewish Holy Days where something extremely significant happened in Jewish history. It is a pattern. Yes, there are blood moons that don't fall on Jewish Holy Days and there is nothing of significance.... BUT.... it seems to be that ALWAYS when they fall on the Holy Days, something very historical took place. (From what I understand). This is all new to me so I am still learning.

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 03:51 PM
Astonishing as it seems, four lunar eclipses will occur on God’s annual Holy Days during Passover and Sukkot in the years 2014 and 2015, and two solar eclipses on Nisan 1 and the Feast of Trumpets! These are exceedingly rare occurrences, especially when they dovetail with God’s Holy Days! What does it all mean? What is the prophetic significance? It’s time to wake up and take heed of these ominous, fateful warnings from heaven!



According to the Jewish calendar, the year 2008 is a Sabbatical year. A new Sabbatical cycle will begin September 29, 2008. 2015 will also be a Sabbatical year.

But most amazing of all, it has been discovered that in the years 2014 and 2015 there will be two solar eclipses and four lunar eclipses, all of them occurring on Jewish Holy Days!

The Lunar eclipses break down as follows:

Passover April 15, 2014
Feast of Tabernacles October 8, 2014
Passover April 4, 2015
Feast of Tabernacles September 28, 2015

The two Solar eclipses connected with God’s Holy Days in 2014-2015 occur:

Adar 29/Nisan 1(new year) March 20, 2015
Feast of Trumpets September 13, 2015

It was on Nisan 1 that the Hebrew new year’s day occurred, according to the Scriptures (Exo.12:1-2). On the anniversary of this date, one year later, Moses raised up the Tabernacle of God, inaugurated it, and the glory of God descended from heaven (Exodus 40:2, 17, 34).

The real shocker is that this phenomenon is extremely rare, for this pattern of eclipses to fall on both Passover and Sukkot in two years in a row, and for a solar eclipse to occur on important Holy Days in the same year (2015).

This intriguing, incredible discovery comes from Mark Biltz, pastor of El Shaddai Ministries, in Bonner Lake, Washington.

Biltz was intrigued with the statement in the Scriptures that connect the second coming of the Messiah with “signs in the heavens,” particularly the signs that “the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood” before the return of Christ. He went on the internet, to the U.S. Government NASA website to see if there were any significant eclipses of the sun and moon during the next few years. To his surprise, he discovered four lunar eclipses in the Sabbatical year 2014/2015, and was intrigued by the fact that they occurred on God’s annual Holy Days!

Writing about the amazing discovery in the May 2008 issue of Prophecy in the News, J. R. Church declares, “This is most unusual. It is a rare occurrence for four lunar cycles on successive Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) observances. It will not happen again for hundreds of years.”
Says J. R. Church, in a letter accompanying the magazine issue, “Four lunar eclipses occurring on the Feast of Tabernacles and Passover in two successive years are phenomenal. But add to them two solar eclipses on the two days that open the Jewish year – Adar 29/Nisan1, just two weeks before Passover, and Tishri 1 (Rosh Hashannah) – is uncanny. On each of these six Jewish Holy Days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light. Will this happen again in the 21st century? No. Did it happen in the 20th century? Yes, in 1949/1950, the year following Israel’s statehood, and 1967/1968, the year Jerusalem was liberated in the Six-Day War! Before that, you have to go back to 1493 for four successive lunar eclipses on Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles” (May 2008 letter).

Another shocking discovery is that coming up this summer there will be three SOLAR eclipses in a row, in 2008, 2009, and 2010, all on the date of the first of Av, the fifth Hebrew month of the year.


Av 1 August 1, 2008 partial solar eclipse
Av 1 July 22, 2009 partial solar eclipse
Av 1 July 11, 2010 partial solar eclipse

The first day of Av is in the middle of the time period when the Jewish people mourn the destruction of the Temple of God. Historically Moses descended from Mt. Sinai with the two tablets of the Ten Commandments, and found the people engaged in gross idolatry at the foot of the mountain. That was on Tammuz 17. Also, on Av 9, the Hebrew spies returned from spying out the land of Canaan and brought an evil report – and the people lost faith in God, and were condemned to wander 40 years in the wilderness (Numbers 14:34). Av 9 also commemorates the date of the destruction of the first Temple by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in 586 B.C., and the second Temple by the Roman general Titus on the same date in 70 A.D.

These two dates are days of infamy in Israel. The three week period between Tammuz 17 and Av 9 are called “between the straits” and are days of mourning, repentance, and lamentations. How interesting that a solar eclipse will fall on the date of Av 1, in the middle of mourning and lamentation, three years in a row!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QImeLlUyww&eurl=http://livingontheedgeoftime.blogspot.com/2008/07/blood-red-moon.html (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QImeLlUyww&eurl=http://livingontheedgeoftime.blogspot.com/2008/07/blood-red-moon.html)

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 04:25 PM
Hello, my brother. I didn't think I'd see the day that I actually disagree with you about something! But I think a blood-red moon is highly significant, for the following reasons:

In Rev.6: 9, when the angel opens the FIFTH seal, the souls of all those who through time had been martyred for their testimony to the word of God, are seen to be asking the LORD how long it will be until He avenges their blood on those who dwell on the earth – but they are told to wait a little while longer, until the full number of their brothers and fellow-servants who are to be martyred as they were, is complete.

Immediately afterward, with the opening of the SIXTH seal, THE SUN becomes “Black as sackcloth of hair”, and THE MOON becomes the color of blood – and THEN we read about THE WRATH of God FOLLOWING these events:-

Revelation 6 verse 9 to Revelation 7 verse 17:

(A) The cry of the martyrs (the FIFTH seal), THE SUN BECOMES BLACK AND THE MOON BECOMES THE COLOR OF BLOOD (the SIXTH seal); and the WRATH of God FOLLOWS (Rev.6: 9-17); and

(B) “THE FOUR WINDS” of these cataclysmic events are held back until 144,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel have been sealed with the seal of God (Rev.7: 1-8); and

( C ) John THEN sees a multitude OF SAINTS in heaven from all nations, tribes and tongues, who had come out from THE GREAT TRIBULATION (Greek: MEGAS THLIPSIS) (Rev.7: 9-17).

“THE SUN shall be turned into darkness, and THE MOON into blood, BEFORE the GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.” (Joel 2: 31).

In Mat.24: 29-31, the sun and moon are darkened “immediately after” the days of “great tribulation” (Mat.24: 21-28), and this coincides with the gathering of Christ's elect.

Is there anything in the Bible which gives us a clue as to whether the sun becoming black and the moon turning the color of blood symbolizes something?

In fact, we will find quite a few scriptures where the sun and the moon symbolize things:

“I will not break My covenant, nor change the thing that has gone out of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness that I will not lie to David...

... His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as THE SUN before Me. It shall be established forever like THE MOON, and like A FAITHFUL WITNESS in the heavens. Selah.” (Ps.89: 34-37).

According to the Bible, king David's throne is the eternal throne of Jesus Christ (who is the incarnate Word of God); and just as the sun provides the world with PHYSICAL light, so the Word of God provides the world with SPIRITUAL light.

THE MOON is THE FAITHFUL WITNESS OF THE SUN (Ps.89: 37), because it reflects the light of the sun.

In Proverbs we read,

“A faithful witness will not lie, but a false witness will speak lies.” (Pro.14: 5); and in Revelation we read that the Lord Jesus Christ is “… the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” (Rev.3: 14).

1 Joseph, one of Israel's twelve sons, once dreamed a dream in which he saw THE SUN, THE MOON, and the other eleven stars bowing before him. Joseph was one of the twelve “stars”, or the twelve tribes of Israel (Gen.37: 9), and Joseph's dream was a picture of the nation of Israel. The dream came true much later, when Joseph became ruler over all Egypt under Pharaoh, and all Israel bowed down to him.

2 “The woman” of Revelation chapter twelve (who brought the Messiah into the world) is pictured “CLOTHED WITH THE SUN, with THE MOON under her feet and a garland of twelve stars on her head” (Rev.12: 1).

In other words, “the woman” of Revelation chapter 12 is clothed with the glory of God - “the sun” symbolizes THE WORD OF GOD, and the male Child she brings into the world is THE INCARNATE WORD OF GOD. The twelve stars symbolize the twelve tribes of Israel – the nation TO WHOM the Word of God came, and THROUGH WHOM the Word of God came into the world.

After her Child (“who is going to rule all nations with a rod of iron”) had been “caught up to God and to His throne” (Rev.12: 5), the devil was cast out of heaven, and went to war against “the woman” and “THE REST OF HER SEED, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev.12: 6-17).

Gen3: 15 says,

“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He will bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.” (Gen.3: 15).

This shows that “the woman” of Revelation 12 is typified by “the woman” of Gen3: 15.

3 When the incarnate Word of God was crucified, THE SUN WAS LITERALLY DARKENED:

“And from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?” (Mat.27: 45-46).

Therefore the moon symbolizes the chosen nation which, as a faithful witness, reflects the light of the Word of God (the sun) into the world.

Revelation 6 verse 9 to Revelation 7 verse 17:

(A) The cry of the martyrs (the FIFTH seal), THE SUN BECOMES BLACK AND THE MOON BECOMES THE COLOR OF BLOOD (the SIXTH seal); and the WRATH of God FOLLOWS (Rev.6: 9-17); and

(B) “THE FOUR WINDS” of these cataclysmic events are held back until 144,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel have been sealed with the seal of God (Rev.7: 1-8); and

( C ) John THEN sees a multitude OF SAINTS in heaven from all nations, tribes and tongues, who had come out from THE GREAT TRIBULATION (Greek: MEGAS THLIPSIS) (Rev.7: 9-17).


If the saints are martyred, THE MOON turns blood-red, and THE SUN (the Word of God that the witnesses of Jesus reflect to the world) is darkened - because the antichrist has overcome the saints and s preventing the gospel from going out anymore.


ananias


Thank you ananias!
God bless you.

Alyssa

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 04:42 PM
Astonishing as it seems, four lunar eclipses will occur on God’s annual Holy Days during Passover and Sukkot in the years 2014 and 2015, and two solar eclipses on Nisan 1 and the Feast of Trumpets! These are exceedingly rare occurrences, especially when they dovetail with God’s Holy Days! What does it all mean? What is the prophetic significance? It’s time to wake up and take heed of these ominous, fateful warnings from heaven!

According to the Jewish calendar, the year 2008 is a Sabbatical year. A new Sabbatical cycle will begin September 29, 2008. 2015 will also be a Sabbatical year.

But most amazing of all, it has been discovered that in the years 2014 and 2015 there will be two solar eclipses and four lunar eclipses, all of them occurring on Jewish Holy Days!

The Lunar eclipses break down as follows:

Passover April 15, 2014
Feast of Tabernacles October 8, 2014
Passover April 4, 2015
Feast of Tabernacles September 28, 2015

The two Solar eclipses connected with God’s Holy Days in 2014-2015 occur:

Adar 29/Nisan 1(new year) March 20, 2015
Feast of Trumpets September 13, 2015

It was on Nisan 1 that the Hebrew new year’s day occurred, according to the Scriptures (Exo.12:1-2). On the anniversary of this date, one year later, Moses raised up the Tabernacle of God, inaugurated it, and the glory of God descended from heaven (Exodus 40:2, 17, 34).

The real shocker is that this phenomenon is extremely rare, for this pattern of eclipses to fall on both Passover and Sukkot in two years in a row, and for a solar eclipse to occur on important Holy Days in the same year (2015).

This intriguing, incredible discovery comes from Mark Biltz, pastor of El Shaddai Ministries, in Bonner Lake, Washington.

Biltz was intrigued with the statement in the Scriptures that connect the second coming of the Messiah with “signs in the heavens,” particularly the signs that “the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood” before the return of Christ. He went on the internet, to the U.S. Government NASA website to see if there were any significant eclipses of the sun and moon during the next few years. To his surprise, he discovered four lunar eclipses in the Sabbatical year 2014/2015, and was intrigued by the fact that they occurred on God’s annual Holy Days!

Writing about the amazing discovery in the May 2008 issue of Prophecy in the News, J. R. Church declares, “This is most unusual. It is a rare occurrence for four lunar cycles on successive Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) observances. It will not happen again for hundreds of years.”
Says J. R. Church, in a letter accompanying the magazine issue, “Four lunar eclipses occurring on the Feast of Tabernacles and Passover in two successive years are phenomenal. But add to them two solar eclipses on the two days that open the Jewish year – Adar 29/Nisan1, just two weeks before Passover, and Tishri 1 (Rosh Hashannah) – is uncanny. On each of these six Jewish Holy Days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light. Will this happen again in the 21st century? No. Did it happen in the 20th century? Yes, in 1949/1950, the year following Israel’s statehood, and 1967/1968, the year Jerusalem was liberated in the Six-Day War! Before that, you have to go back to 1493 for four successive lunar eclipses on Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles” (May 2008 letter).

Another shocking discovery is that coming up this summer there will be three SOLAR eclipses in a row, in 2008, 2009, and 2010, all on the date of the first of Av, the fifth Hebrew month of the year.


Av 1 August 1, 2008 partial solar eclipse
Av 1 July 22, 2009 partial solar eclipse
Av 1 July 11, 2010 partial solar eclipse

The first day of Av is in the middle of the time period when the Jewish people mourn the destruction of the Temple of God. Historically Moses descended from Mt. Sinai with the two tablets of the Ten Commandments, and found the people engaged in gross idolatry at the foot of the mountain. That was on Tammuz 17. Also, on Av 9, the Hebrew spies returned from spying out the land of Canaan and brought an evil report – and the people lost faith in God, and were condemned to wander 40 years in the wilderness (Numbers 14:34). Av 9 also commemorates the date of the destruction of the first Temple by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in 586 B.C., and the second Temple by the Roman general Titus on the same date in 70 A.D.

These two dates are days of infamy in Israel. The three week period between Tammuz 17 and Av 9 are called “between the straits” and are days of mourning, repentance, and lamentations. How interesting that a solar eclipse will fall on the date of Av 1, in the middle of mourning and lamentation, three years in a row!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QImeLlUyww&eurl=http://livingontheedgeoftime.blogspot.com/2008/07/blood-red-moon.html (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QImeLlUyww&eurl=http://livingontheedgeoftime.blogspot.com/2008/07/blood-red-moon.html)

Yes, it is very interesting.

Did you know that both Solomon's temple and Herod's temple were destroyed by fire - and that

(1) the princes/kings of both armies of destruction are biblical types of antichrist; and

(b) When Herod's temple was destroyed, the remaining Jewish survivors were taken captive to Rome 666 years after Jehoiachin, king of Judah, was taken captive to Babylon along with Ezekiel and other promiment Jews?

(597 B.C [the year Jehoiachin was taken captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar] to 70 A.D = 667 years - but there is no year "0" between 1 B.C and 1 A.D, because Pope Gregory began the Gregorian calendar and set the birth of Christ in the year 1 A.D - not in the year "0" A.D - therefore 1 year must be subtracted between B.C and A.D - since 1 B.C to 1 A.D counts one year, not two years).

Both Solomon's temple and Herod's temple were handed over to destruction by fire becuase of the rebellion and waywardness of Israel - will the church be handed over to the fire of the great tribulation for the same reason?

ananias

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 04:44 PM
Thank you ananias!
God bless you.

Alyssa

No problem, Alyssa S. Praise the author of the Bible!

ananias :)

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 06:08 PM
Thanks for that link, Alyssa S. I've watched part I. I'll watch part II tomorrow - I've already over-shot the 1Gig per month cap my ISP places on my downloads (we get ripped off by ISP's in this country!)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QImeLlUyww&eurl=http://livingontheedgeoftime.blogspot.com/2008/07/blood-red-moon.html (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QImeLlUyww&eurl=http://livingontheedgeoftime.blogspot.com/2008/07/blood-red-moon.html)

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 07:57 PM
Yes, it is very interesting.

Did you know that both Solomon's temple and Herod's temple were destroyed by fire - and that

(1) the princes/kings of both armies of destruction are biblical types of antichrist; and

(b) When Herod's temple was destroyed, the remaining Jewish survivors were taken captive to Rome 666 years after Jehoiachin, king of Judah, was taken captive to Babylon along with Ezekiel and other promiment Jews?

(597 B.C [the year Jehoiachin was taken captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar] to 70 A.D = 667 years - but there is no year "0" between 1 B.C and 1 A.D, because Pope Gregory began the Gregorian calendar and set the birth of Christ in the year 1 A.D - not in the year "0" A.D - therefore 1 year must be subtracted between B.C and A.D - since 1 B.C to 1 A.D counts one year, not two years).

Both Solomon's temple and Herod's temple were handed over to destruction by fire becuase of the rebellion and waywardness of Israel - will the church be handed over to the fire of the great tribulation for the same reason?

ananias

I did not know this...
The Word is so amazing, isn't it? That goes without saying.

But I have to admit... all this end times talk makes me a little uneasy. I have never been a worrier, and I am finding myself starting to worry. Not good. God will get me back on track!! He always does.

Thanks for sharing.... and I'm sorry you couldn't watch Part II of that video... that must be frustrating!

Have a blessed day!
Alyssa

Forgiven Alaskan
Oct 1st 2008, 05:56 PM
these next days of Awe will be interesting!

third hero
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:46 AM
OK. I am just going to highlight what I had already said, mainly because I do not want to derail this thread, and on top of that, After this, I will only be repeating myself.

I am really big on details. It is my opinion that the details are what makes the difference in determining anything, from what to wear in the morning, to interpreting scripture. It is this attention to detail that has some of my thoughts at odds with those who believe that Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are highlighting the same signs and talking about the same topics. With that said, I have to stand on what I had written, because the devil is in the details.

Like I have written earlier, Matthew 24:29 does not say that "the moon will turn to blood", like it says in Joel 2. It says, like it also says in Joel chapters 2 and 3 that "the moon would not give her light". There is a BIG difference.

1. IF the moon shines blood-red, then it s STILL SHINING. Remember, during the last century, we learned that the Moon reflects sunlight, and thus doesn not have a light of her own. If the moon is shining blood-red, then the sunlight is blood-red too, although the Lord will darken the sun so that it turns black.
2. The scriptures say that the sign of the Lord's return is that the moon withdraws her shining, therefore the details of withdrawing her shining, to me at least, is to determine that the moon will not shine at all.

They are not the same sign, and they do not mean the same thing.

I would like to take note, again, as to whom is saying, "hide us" in Revelation 6. It is the wicked themselves that are saying this. However, if they are in the mountains in chapter 6, then why are they not in the mountains when the Lord actually comes in chapter 19? They are at Megiddo, the place where the enemy gathers them all to, (Revelation 16:13-14, 16). Now something had to happen whereas they were at one point hiding in the mountains, afraid of the wrath of the Lord and the time in which they are being gathered to face Him at Megiddo. What happened? In my opinion, they, like most of us, have misinterpreted the Blood-moon sign.

I have shown clearly that the blood-moon sign is actually the literal fulfillment of Joel 2, where Israel's remnant are picked out, hence the reason why John went through great trouble to list every tribe of Israel that is Marked when the sixth seal is released.

Now, why would humanity run away when they see the moon turn blood-red while at the same time, the "stars" fall from the sky and the Sun refuses to shine? Well, because humanity was taught that that was the sign to look for. That is why. Even now, when people look up into the sky, they fear if the moon turns blood-red, because they all, from the kings to the peasants, believe that the blood-moon is the sign. It would be a great opportunity for God to take 144,000 people and seal them for His use. Those 144,000 from Israel would see that the blood-moon sign would not be the sign of the end, but the sign for them to cry out to the Lord.

Now for another thing. If the Great Tribulation was the fourth seal and the wrath of the Lord was the sixth seal, then why is God receiving incense mixed with "the prayers of the saints" when the seventh seal is released? Are they not in heaven at that point? If the "rapture" happens by then, what is the point for all of the saints to pray? And you can not say that they are in heaven when the Lord receives these prayers, because according to Revelation 7, the heavens are silent for 1/2 hour. The saints are praying during that time. If the saiants are in heaven, then they could not be praying, because heaven was silent. So, where are they?

This is just one of the many reasons why I do not believe in the 7 seals doctrine. There are too many holes in it for detail-oriented people like myself to believe. My motto is to read what is there, and do not read into it what is not. The 7 seals doctrine does just that, inserting the Great Tribulation in a place where it is not, and does not read the seven seal as seals.

Here's another question. If the Lord returns during the sixth seal, when does it mention that the Lord leaves the scroll that He had in his hands to come and get us, squish the Rebelling world, take posession of it, and then return to heaven to break the last seal? That clearly is not there in that portion of scripture.

Jesus is in heaven, that whole time, opening the scroll, breaking each seal along the way. In fact, although the world said that the Lord's wrath was upon them, the heavenly beings did not declare this until 3 chapters later, AFTER the seven trumpets are blown, which occurs AFTER the seven seals are opened. So, who knows when the wrath of the Lord was coming, the wicked world that hid in mountains, or the heavenly hosts? Besides, when would the world know when the Lord is coming? The kings to the peasants, didn't we see that in other scriptures, like chapter 19? Aren't they the wicked ones who will be caught off guard when the actual sign happens? (Darkness in the skies even when there is suppose to be sunlight, as written in Matthew 24:29.)

If the blood-moon sign is the sign, why would Jesus use the other sign as the sign of His coming? I am sure that in all three versions of His Olivet discourse, at least ONE of them would have said that He said the blood-moon sign, which, coincidently, none of them did.

Alyssa S
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:39 PM
I am really big on details.


Me too!! So how would you explain the following?....



Like I have written earlier, Matthew 24:29 does not say that "the moon will turn to blood", like it says in Joel 2. It says, like it also says in Joel chapters 2 and 3 that "the moon would not give her light". There is a BIG difference.


Joel 2 and Joel 3 have different wording, but are they the same event??...

2:31 "The sun will be turned to to darkness and the MOON to BLOOD BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD."

3:14b "For the DAY OF THE LORD is NEAR in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars NO LONGER SHINE."

But right before Joel 2:31 is Joel 2:10....
2:10 "Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are DARKENED, and the stars NO LONGER SHINE."

So.... "sandwiched" in between two verses that talk about the moon being DARKENED, is a very similar verse that says the moon will be BLOOD.

So..... where else do we see this BLOOD MOON and DARKENED MOON?

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately AFTER the distress of those days " ' the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...."

Revelation 6:12 "I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned BLACK like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned BLOOD RED, and the stars in the sky fell to earth..."

So.... here we have a continued pattern of these same phrases that we have seen in Joel 2,3, Isaiah 13:10, and Matthew 24. Matt 24:29 and Rev. 6:12 MUST be the same event... because surely the stars will not "fall from the sky" TWICE. Too, we know that Jesus returns immediately after this.



1. IF the moon shines blood-red, then it s STILL SHINING. Remember, during the last century, we learned that the Moon reflects sunlight, and thus doesn not have a light of her own. If the moon is shining blood-red, then the sunlight is blood-red too, although the Lord will darken the sun so that it turns black.


Then, how would you explain Matt 24:29 and Rev 6:12 which are describing the same event and yet have a different description for the moon... "BLOOD RED" and "NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT?" Are they really that different? We think of the moon as "white".... but when it is BLOOD RED, it is quite opposite in color. Blood red is NOT a light. It is DARK.



They are not the same sign, and they do not mean the same thing.


I'm afraid I will have to respectfully disagree with you. But I appreciate your post. I too, thought they may be two different events, but once I saw Rev and Matt, it pretty much sealed it for me. But I will remain open for correction. :)

Thanks, and God bless!
Alyssa

unkn0wnNYC
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:06 PM
Me too!! So how would you explain the following?....



Joel 2 and Joel 3 have different wording, but are they the same event??...

2:31 "The sun will be turned to to darkness and the MOON to BLOOD BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD."

3:14b "For the DAY OF THE LORD is NEAR in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars NO LONGER SHINE."

But right before Joel 2:31 is Joel 2:10....
2:10 "Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are DARKENED, and the stars NO LONGER SHINE."

So.... "sandwiched" in between two verses that talk about the moon being DARKENED, is a very similar verse that says the moon will be BLOOD.

So..... where else do we see this BLOOD MOON and DARKENED MOON?

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately AFTER the distress of those days " ' the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...."

Revelation 6:12 "I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned BLACK like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned BLOOD RED, and the stars in the sky fell to earth..."

So.... here we have a continued pattern of these same phrases that we have seen in Joel 2,3, Isaiah 13:10, and Matthew 24. Matt 24:29 and Rev. 6:12 MUST be the same event... because surely the stars will not "fall from the sky" TWICE. Too, we know that Jesus returns immediately after this.



Then, how would you explain Matt 24:29 and Rev 6:12 which are describing the same event and yet have a different description for the moon... "BLOOD RED" and "NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT?" Are they really that different? We think of the moon as "white".... but when it is BLOOD RED, it is quite opposite in color. Blood red is NOT a light. It is DARK.



I'm afraid I will have to respectfully disagree with you. But I appreciate your post. I too, thought they may be two different events, but once I saw Rev and Matt, it pretty much sealed it for me. But I will remain open for correction. :)

Thanks, and God bless!
Alyssa

I completely agree with Alyssa on this one. If you look at everything that happens in the sky, they are all pretty much identical. A dark moon can be a blood red moon. And who's not to say that the moon will not go Blood Red, then burn out or fade to black? The Day of the Lord will be intense. We know that when The Lord returns, there will be immeasurable catastrophic events going on at the same time. All of the scriptures which Alyssa has quoted above seem to me like the same day, The Day of the Lord.

Alyssa S
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:57 PM
I completely agree with Alyssa on this one. If you look at everything that happens in the sky, they are all pretty much identical. A dark moon can be a blood red moon. And who's not to say that the moon will not go Blood Red, then burn out or fade to black? The Day of the Lord will be intense. We know that when The Lord returns, there will be immeasurable catastrophic events going on at the same time. All of the scriptures which Alyssa has quoted above seem to me like the same day, The Day of the Lord.

Thanks for your post! :)

I might add that though I believe all of these Scripture verses are describing the same day, it does not necessarily mean that this discovery of Mark Biltz' regarding the four lunar eclipses on the Holy Days of 2014-2015 are these exact days spoken of in Scripture. It would make sense in some ways, however, because this is a very RARE occurance and whenever blood moons have fallen on Holy Days in the past, something VERY significant happened in Jewish history.

So, it might be silly to disregard this 2014-2015 lunar eclipse as nothing... but it may not necessarily be the exact event of Matt 24 and Rev 6.

Here's why...
The LAST SOLAR ECLIPSE in this group is on Sept. 13, 2015 on Feast of Trumpets.

The LAST LUNAR ECLIPSE does not happen for another 15 days on Sept 28, 2015 on Feast of Tabernacles. So clearly these events are not taking place on the same exact day "THE DAY OF THE LORD." But.... what if the "sun darkening and the moon turning blood red and the stars falling from the sky" is not just one day? Whose to say that Matt 24 that describes the sun darkening doesn't happen 2 weeks earlier than the moon turning to blood red? After all, that is the order it will happen in 2015. Is there any reason to believe that these 3 events have to happen all on one day? What if they occur over a period of 2 weeks and THEN "THE DAY OF THE LORD" happens?

"The sun will be darkened, (First... and THEN...)
and the moon will not give its light;"


Remember Joel 2 and 3? It says the sun and moon will be darkened BEFORE the coming of that great and dreadful day of the Lord (not ON that very day).... and Joel 3:14 says... "For the DAY OF THE LORD is NEAR...the sun and moon will be darkened." But I recognize that there are other verses that seem to say this will all happen one day. Hmmmmm.

"It is a rare occurrence for four lunar cycles on successive Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) observances. It will not happen again for hundreds of years.”

So then, if it doesn't happen again for hundreds of years, do we truly believe that it will be hundreds of years before Christ's return considering everything that is going on in our world?

I realize that Jesus does not have to come back on a Holy Day... but since he is a God of order, it would seem that he would. So where does that leave us?

God bless,
Alyssa

resbmc
Oct 2nd 2008, 07:30 PM
go to this site, scroll down to see the two Mark Blitz interviews, you will find it very interesting, http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/

Alyssa S
Oct 2nd 2008, 08:15 PM
go to this site, scroll down to see the two Mark Blitz interviews, you will find it very interesting, http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/

Thank you resbmc!! :)

God bless you,
Alyssa

ananias
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:24 PM
Of course, none of us knows for sure that we link up different verses found in different books of the Bible correctly.

I understand it this way:

Jesus said that the days of the great tribulation will be shortened for the elect's sake (Mat.24: 21-22). This means that we're talking about a period - who knows how long - days, or weeks, or months?

There will be signs in the heavens - in the sun, the moon and the stars which will accompany those events, I think.

When the incarnate Word of God (the giver of Light to the world) was crucified, there was darkness for 3 hours (Luk.23: 24). We don't know if this was due to a solar eclipse, since there is no record of such an eclipse anywhere around A.D 30 - A.D 33 which could have been experienced in Jerusalem.

A total lunar eclipse doesn't always result in the moon disappearing - a total lunar eclipse often results in the moon turning blood-red (see the color at the following link):

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/13oct_lunareclipse.htm

The martyrdom of saints and the saints being overcome by the beast = the gospel is no longer going out to the world = solar eclipses + blood-red moon eclipses.

IMHO there most certainly is a definite link between Rosh Hashanah and Rev.11: 15 - this is the day the world will see Him appear in the clouds and the saints will be lifted up and taken out of the world (1Thes.4: 15-18; Mat.24: 29-31; Rev.11: 11-15). What follows is "the days of awe" and the repentance of JACOB, according to Jewish tradition surrounding the period Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur (10 days).

And as we now know, Rosh Hashanah does not occur until the first slither of the new moon is seen (that's why Rosh Hashanah only began on October 1st this year, and not Sept.30th) - this is known as "the day and the hour that no man knoweth", because the trumpets do not start blowing until the sighting of the first slither of the new moon.

There are many other facts regarding this period that are pertinent - such as the fact that Rosh Hashanah traditionally also begins the seven-day marriage consummation period of God and his bride - but there are many facts surrounding this period which teach us that just as the Lord's crucifixion took place on the appointed day and His resurrection took place on the appointed day, and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit took place on the apponted day (the Day of Pentecost), so the day the saints are lifted out of the world will occur on the appointed day - which is Rosh Hashanah.

Let's just pretend for a moment that this will occur in 2015. Perhaps by that time, the world will know about the solar and lunar eclipses occurring on the biblical holy days that (some of the) Christians made a big hoo-haah about; and they will know about the mark of the beast that the Christians refused to accept; and they will know about "the burning, fiery, furnace" that those who refused to worship the beast and his image were thrown into (Daniel 3 and Rev.13: 11-18); and they will have seen these solar and lunar eclispes.

"The Day of the LORD" has always referred to the Day God's judgment comes upon the nations - and Joel says,

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah." (Joe 2:31).

It's "the days of awe" that begin on Rosh Hashanah. The last lunar eclipse to occur before Rosh Hashanah in 2015 occurs on Passover day. I personnally feel that may be significant:

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, "For Your sake we are killed all the day long. We are counted as sheep of slaughter." But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom 8:35-39).

But now I'm speculating. There are reasons, however, why I believe that the actions of the antichrist against the saints are written in the 6th seal and the 6th trumpet, and his final action is written in the 6th bowl of wrath in chapter 16 (that's 666).

His judgement at the hand of Christ comes at the time of the opening of the 7th seal, the sounding of the 7th trumpet, and the pouring out of the seventh bowl of wrath (that's 777).

But I would have to write a great deal to explain why I say that.

And of course, I could be wrong about anything I say!!! :)

ananias

SpokenFor
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:34 PM
But I would have to write a great deal to explain why I say that.

ananias

So...what? Ya got somewhere to go or something? :D

ananias
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:11 PM
So...what? Ya got somewhere to go or something? :D

You trying to squeeze the last drop out of my tin head?? :D

Earlier in this thread my reasons for saying that the 6th seal is the actions of the antichrist against the saints, so thank goodness, I don't have to repeat that one again :pp

The position of the "woes" (Rev.8: 13) links the first "woe" to the 5th trumpet (Rev.9: 1, 12). The second "woe" is linked to the 6th trumpet, and the third and last "woe" is linked to the 7th trumpet.

But the second "woe" is ALSO linked to the martyrdom of "the two witnesses" of Jesus:

"And when they complete their testimony, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war against them and will overcome them and kill them...." (compare Mat.24: 9, 14 and Rev.13: 7, 14)

"...And their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And many of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will see their dead bodies three days and a half, and they will not allow their dead bodies to be put in tombs. And the ones who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, and will make merry, and will send one another gifts, because these two prophets tormented those living on the earth. And after three days and a half, a spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet. And great fear fell on those seeing them. And they heard a great voice from Heaven saying to them, Come up here. And they went up to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them..." (compare Dan.3: 26)

"...And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and the tenth part of the city fell. And seven thousand names of men were slain in the earthquake. And the rest were frightened and gave glory to the God of Heaven. The second woe passed away. Behold, the third woe comes quickly. And the seventh angel sounded. And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ. And He will reign forever and ever.

... And the twenty-four elders sitting before God on their thrones, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, We thank You, O Lord God Almighty, who are, and who was, and who is coming, because You took Your great power and reigned. And the nations were full of wrath, and Your wrath came, and the time of the judging of the dead, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the earth. And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant, and there occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail." (Rev 11:7-19)

"lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake" (symbols of God's judgment) occur at the opening of the 7th seal and at the pouring out of the 7th bowl of wrath also. The 7th trumpet and 7th bowl of wrath adds "hail" - another symbol of judgement.

The sounding of the 7th trumpet is sandwiched in-between (on one hand) the verses describing the martyrdom and subsequent resurrection and removal of "the two witnesses" (Rev.11: 7-14), and (on the other hand) the verses describing God's judgment coming upon the world (Rev.11: 15-19).

Just like the redeemed family in the ark with Noah were "lifted out" of the world by the ark when the wrath of God was poured out in the form of the flood, so "the two witnesses" (those who will be found in Christ) are shown to be lifted out of the world when the judgment/wrath of God begins to be poured out upon the world (Rosh Hashanah is traditionally the day God begins to judge the nations).

In-between the sounding of the sixth and seventh trumpets, we have a passage (Revelation 10) introducing the judge of the earth with a rainbow on His head (showing that although the time for judgment has come, it will not be in the form of a great world-wide flood). John is given the scroll (the revealed prophetic Word of God) to eat, and it is sweet as honey in his mouth but very bitter to digest.

"And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth lifted his hand to the heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there should no longer be time." (Rev 10:5-6)

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to Heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (Dan 12:7)

will be continued...

ananias
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:30 PM
The position of the "woes" (Rev.8: 13) links the first "woe" to the 5th trumpet (Rev.9: 1, 12). The second "woe" is linked to the 6th trumpet, and the third and last "woe" is linked to the 7th trumpet.

But the second "woe" is ALSO linked to the martyrdom of "the two witnesses" of Jesus:



This means that the events of the 6th trumpet (the myriad "horsemen" being sent out into all the world to kill a third part of men) is referring to the martryrdom of "the two witnesses" of Jesus.

That's not a very comforting thought, but Peter said we must comfort one another with these words:

"For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Therefore comfort one another with these words." (1Th 4:15-18)


So who do "the two witnesses" of Jesus refer to?


My understanding is this:

The symbolism in the Revelation will be 100% consistent with Biblical (Old Testament) symbolism:

Zechariah chapter 4 is prophetic of Jesus and His Church:

"Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of Jehovah unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith Jehovah of hosts . Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain; and he shall bring forth the top stone with shoutings of Grace, grace, unto it. Moreover the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you ." (Zec 4:6-9)

It's prophetic of Jesus building His church after He Himself laid its foundation.

What has this got to do with "the two witnesses" of Jesus?

Check the symbolism:

"And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have seen, and, behold, a candlestick all of gold , with its bowl upon the top of it, and its seven lamps thereon; there are seven pipes to each of the lamps, which are upon the top thereof; and two olive-trees by it , one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof...

"And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these are? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth ."

"These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth" (Zech.4: 2-3, 13-14; Rev 11:4)

Zerubbabel (the governor) and Joshua (the High priest) are both biblical types of Jesus, and Zerubbabel was busy building the house (temple) of God and was being assisted by Joshua.

"The two witnesses" are the witnesses of Jesus and they speak with ONE MOUTH (Rev.11: 5), unlike the beast, false prophet and dragon.

"...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". (Rev.19: 10c)

"And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Rev 11:3)

"The Spirit of fire" proceeding from their mouth could be a reference to the Spirit of Truth against which the arguments of atheists, agnostics, evolutionists etc cannot stand.

The blessing of the Holy Spirit from heaven is symbolized as "waters from heaven" (rain: Hebrew "mayim mi shamayim") in the Old Testament.

"And the third poured out his bowl into the rivers and the fountains of the waters; and it became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, who art and who wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: for they poured out the blood of the saints and the prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy .
(Rev 16:4-6)

"These have the power to shut the heaven, that it rain not during the days of their prophecy: and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire." (Rev 11:6).

False doctrine/heresy is a (spiritual) plague.

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation." (Rev 13:7)

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;" (Dan 7:21)

"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. And from among the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations do men look upon their dead bodies three days and a half, and suffer not their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them, and make merry; and they shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth. And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them . (Rev 11:7-12)

Well, that's just my post-tribulation rapture of the saints way of understanding who "the two witnesses" of Jesus refers to - and I could be wrong.


ananias

Alyssa S
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:03 PM
Thanks for these posts, ananias!! I will take some time to study them. Me a little brain-fried right now. :) I did read them.... but I didn't absorb it all!

I did notice something that is confusing me in studying these verses.

We see in Revelation 6:12 at the 6th seal where the SUN turns BLACK, the MOON turns BLOOD RED, and the STARS FALL to the earth. This is the 6th seal.

Now... go the 7th seal in Revelation 8:12 and the fourth trumpet reveals that a THIRD of the SUN was struck, a third of the MOON was struck, and a third of the STARS were struck so that a third of them TURNED DARK. A third of the day was without light!!"

HUH??? This already happened at the 6th seal!! ??? I thought the sun was already dark and the stars had already fallen??

Maybe third hero is right... maybe these are two different events... but very close together. ???

Maybe the first is simply a solar and lunar eclipse....(along with falling stars) and then perhaps this part in the 7th seal is a totally different, more catastrophic, "earth shattering" event. Does that even work?

Isaiah 60:19 says this...
"The SUN will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory. Your SUN will NEVER set again, and your moon will wane no more; the LORD will be your EVERLASTING LIGHT, and your days of sorrow will end."

It would seem that something more than an eclipse would have to happen if Jesus is going to be our SUN. But how does it all fit into Scripture? Obviously I am missing something.

Grrrr...
Matthew 24 is where the Lord gathers the elect... and here the sun is darkened, the moon does not give light, and the stars fall.... So is Matt 24 a parallel to Rev 7:12? Or is Matt 24 a parallel to Rev 8:12??

Reve 7 and 8 have to be two different things.... and Matt 24 cannot represent both of them.

HELP!!! :lol:

Alyssa S
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:38 PM
Now for another thing. If the Great Tribulation was the fourth seal and the wrath of the Lord was the sixth seal, then why is God receiving incense mixed with "the prayers of the saints" when the seventh seal is released? Are they not in heaven at that point? If the "rapture" happens by then, what is the point for all of the saints to pray? And you can not say that they are in heaven when the Lord receives these prayers, because according to Revelation 7, the heavens are silent for 1/2 hour. The saints are praying during that time. If the saiants are in heaven, then they could not be praying, because heaven was silent. So, where are they?

.

I just read these verses you are talking about... and you are RIGHT! These saints are clearly still in the midst of the Tribulation/Wrath. The Resurrection is on the Last Day... no sooner! I'm reconsidering everything else you said... there are still some missing pieces... but it's probably my brain. TeeHee! :lol:

BHS
Oct 3rd 2008, 02:04 AM
I don't discount the signs in the heavens, such as lunar eclipses on Jewish Holidays, which have occurred in the past and I feel quite certain will occur in the future.

What I do discount is the timing of these events in 2014 and 2015 having much significance. When you go to the NASA website where Mark Blitz gets his information, you will also find that only ONE of these is even visible to those in ISRAEL and most occur in totally uninhabited areas, visible to only a small number of population throughout the entire world. This alone, IMO, reduces the relevancy of these events occurring in 2014 and 2015 to almost no relevancy at all.

Blessings,
BHS

third hero
Oct 3rd 2008, 03:31 AM
Me too!! So how would you explain the following?....Joel 2 and Joel 3 have different wording, but are they the same event??...

2:31 "The sun will be turned to to darkness and the MOON to BLOOD BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD."

NOtice the word BEFORE. There is my explanation. This sign happens before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord. The Moon refusing to shine her light is the sign that happens as the Day of the Lord commences.

The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp very great: for [he is] strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD [is] great and very terrible; and who can abide it? -Joel 2:10-11

According to these verses alone, the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord is synomymous with the sign of the sun and moon giving no light.


3:14b [I]"For the DAY OF THE LORD is NEAR in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars NO LONGER SHINE."

But right before Joel 2:31 is Joel 2:10....
2:10 "Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are DARKENED, and the stars NO LONGER SHINE."

So.... "sandwiched" in between two verses that talk about the moon being DARKENED, is a very similar verse that says the moon will be BLOOD.

So..... where else do we see this BLOOD MOON and DARKENED MOON?

You are aware that the OT prophets were not given definitive chronological order to the prophecies that the Lord gave them. They were to tell the world what they had seen. Look no further than the book of Daniel, where the prophecies contained in there jump from that era to the end times back to his time and all over the place. In fact, before Lord Jesus, the only prophecies that we could folllow were the ones where a timeline is given, but the vast majority of them did not have an order that we could follow.


Matthew 24:29 "Immediately AFTER the distress of those days " ' the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...."

Revelation 6:12 "I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned BLACK like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned BLOOD RED, and the stars in the sky fell to earth..."

So.... here we have a continued pattern of these same phrases that we have seen in Joel 2,3, Isaiah 13:10, and Matthew 24. Matt 24:29 and Rev. 6:12 MUST be the same event... because surely the stars will not "fall from the sky" TWICE. Too, we know that Jesus returns immediately after this.

This is why I do not like to repeat myself. The sign in Revelation 6 is NOT the same as the sign of Matthew 24, or Mark 13, or Luke 21. Even Peter recognized the difference by using ther prophecy in Joel 2 to describe what was going on with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. He recognized that the sign of the moon turning to blood is so that:

And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32

The sign of the moon turning blood-red never had anything to do with the Day of the Lord other than to say that it wil happen BEFORE that day arrives.


Then, how would you explain Matt 24:29 and Rev 6:12 which are describing the same event and yet have a different description for the moon... "BLOOD RED" and "NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT?" Are they really that different? We think of the moon as "white".... but when it is BLOOD RED, it is quite opposite in color. Blood red is NOT a light. It is DARK.

Can you see the color red? If the answer is yes, then red is a light, a light that can be seen.

How can you say that Revelation 6:12 is the same event as Matthew 24? There is NO mention of the Lord's return, NO mention of the Great Tribulation before it, and NO mention of the Beast, which MUST come before the return of the Lord. We don't even see the Beast at ALL until chapter 11, when 6 of the 7 trumpets of woe have already been blown, which happens AFTER the heavens are silent for a half-hour, which happens AFTER the sixth seal is broken and the remnant of Israle is sealed. Seriously, the only way you can even hint to the possibility of there being a Great Tribulation before the sixth seal is to insert a false interpretation of one of the former seals. IMHO, it is truly impossible to say AND prove that the saixth seal, or even the sign of the sixth seal, which has always equated to salvation to Israel to mean the coming of the Lord.

Also, the opposite of white is not red. It's black. I hope you really know that. Darkness and light have nothing in common. You can see nothing when it's all black, but you can see red when there is light.


I'm afraid I will have to respectfully disagree with you. But I appreciate your post. I too, thought they may be two different events, but once I saw Rev and Matt, it pretty much sealed it for me. But I will remain open for correction. :)

Thanks, and God bless!
Alyssa

Well, that is your right to disagree. However, I can not ignore the very real differences between the two signs and their usages. Red is not black, and vice versa, and that point must be realized before this conversation concerning the sign of the Return of the Lord can continue. I know that in order to believe in the seven seals doctrine, one has to change the logic of the colors in order to justify it, but that is something that I can not do, nor believe in.

ananias
Oct 3rd 2008, 11:38 AM
I could be wrong about anything I say, save when I say that God is right about everything He says, but am I misinterpreting what He said?

Scientifically speaking, a total lunar eclipse doesn't always result in the moon disappearing - a total lunar eclipse often results in the moon turning blood-red (see the color at the following link):

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...nareclipse.htm (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/13oct_lunareclipse.htm)

I could be wrong, but I think that symbolically speaking, the martyrdom of saints and the saints being overcome by the beast = the gospel is no longer going out to the world = solar eclipse + blood-red moon eclipse.

I think the Revelation is highly symbolic, and that's why it's so difficult to understand:

"A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass. And He signified it by sending His angel to His servant John," (Rev 1:1)

I think with regard to the seals and the trumpets, the one follows on the other because the one thing leads to the other. I have no idea what the first and second trumpets refer to. And I have only "thoughts" about what the third and fourth trumpets refer to - and that they symbolize something:

"And the third angel sounded, and a great star burning like a lamp fell from the heaven, and it fell on the third part of the rivers and on the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood, and a third part of the waters became wormwood. And many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter." (Rev 8:10-11)

1 My thoughts (thoughts only) on the symbolic meaning of the star that fell:

“And He (God) brought him (Abraham) outside and said, Look now toward the heavens and count THE STARS, if you are able to count them. And He said to him, So shall your seed be.” (Gen.15: 5)...

“... that in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your seed like THE STARS of the heavens, and as the sand which is upon the seashore. And your Seed shall possess the gate of His enemies.” (Gen.22: 17)...

“But David did not take the number of those from twenty years old and under, because Jehovah had said He would increase Israel like THE STARS of the heavens.” (1Ch.27: 23)...

“And he dreamed still another dream, and told it to his brothers. And he said, Behold, I have dreamed another dream. And behold, the sun and the moon and THE ELEVEN STARS bowed down to me.” (Gen.37: 9).

“And those who are wise shall shine as the brightness of the sky; and those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as THE STARS forever and ever.” (Dan.12: 3)...

The following prophecy in Daniel was fulfilled by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid prince who brought down the leaders, people and army of Judah and Jerusalem, and defiled the temple in Jerusalem in 168 B.C:

“And it (that is, the horn in the prophecy: symbolizing Antiochus Epiphanes, a biblical type of the antichrist) became great, even to the host of heaven. And it made fall some of the host and of THE STARS to the ground, and trampled them.” (Dan.8: 10).

“For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above THE STARS of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.” (Isa.14: 13).

“And there appeared a great sign in the heavens, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet, and a crown of TWELVE STARS on her head,” (Rev.12: 1).

The sun symbolizes the Word of God; the moon symbolizes God's chosen nation collectively; and THE STARS symbolize God's chosen people individually:-


“And those who are wise shall shine as the brightness of the sky; and those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as THE STARS forever and ever.” (Dan.12: 3).


"The sea" symbolizes "the (Gentile) nations":


“So says Jehovah, who gives THE SUN for a light by day and the laws of THE MOON and of THE STARS for a light by night, who divides THE SEA when its waves roar; Jehovah of Hosts is His name;...

... if those ordinances depart from Me, says Jehovah, the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. So says Jehovah, If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be searched out, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says Jehovah.” (Jer.31: 35-37).

“And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was stricken, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars, so that the third part of them was darkened, and the day did not appear for a third part of it, and the night also.” (Rev.8: 12).

“And there shall be signs in THE SUN, and in THE MOON, and in THE STARS. And on the earth will be anxiety of (THE) NATIONS with perplexity; THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING; men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.” (Luk.21: 25-28).


"And the third angel sounded, and a great star burning like a lamp fell from the heaven, and it fell on the third part of the rivers and on the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood, and a third part of the waters became wormwood. And many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter." (Rev 8:10-11)


“And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was stricken, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars, so that the third part of them was darkened, and the day did not appear for a third part of it, and the night also.” (Rev.8: 12).


In the Mosaic Law, when a man suspected his wife of adultery, the priest would give her bitter water to drink. If the water made her sick, she was guilty. If not, she was innocent. "The church" is the bride of Christ. Bitter water is doctrine mixed with error and/or heresy. A false prophet? introducing false doctrine/heresy burns "like a torch/lamp". This results in the Word of God ("the sun") being partly obscured and the people of God ("the moon") not reflecting the light of the Word of God to the world as it should.


This leads to the "bottomless pit" being opened (the fifth trumpet), and the "smoke" that rises refers again to spiritual teaching - but it isn't able to harm those who are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Rev.9: 4)


Don't ask me what the locusts refer to - I have no idea. I think it possibly refers to the destruction of "Babylon the Great" (the spiritual heritage of Babylon) at the hand of the "ten kings" (Rev.17: 1, 16-17; 18: 21; 14: 8).


What follows (the sixth trumpet) is the martyrdom of "the two witnesses" of Jesus - as can be seen from the position of the "woes" in the Revelation, because the first woe is linked by the Revelation to the fifth trumpet, the second woe to the sixth trumpet, and the third woe to the seventh trumpet (as I showed in my earlier previous post in this thread).



And I was very reluctant to even post this up here - because with regard to anything said in this post, I have no idea whether or not I know what I'm talking about!


I think that the sixth seal and the sixth trumpet refer symbolically to the great tribulation of the saints spoken of in Matthew 24: 9-31, and I could be wrong - because Mat.24: 29-31 says that the darkening of the sun and the moon follows the great tribulation.


ananias

SpokenFor
Oct 3rd 2008, 01:22 PM
Ananias.

Thanks for your posts about the 6's, 7's and two witnesses (without even so much as anyone prodding you to do so :saint:)

I'm reading and re-reading your post. I agree about the 6's and 7's. Not sure about the witnesses, but it is something to mull over in my brain and study more closely.

Thanks again for sharing all your eschatological wisdom.

Alyssa S
Oct 3rd 2008, 05:26 PM
[quote=third hero;1806444] (There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood RED.) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:13-17


I am still struggling over these verses, third hero. Are you saying that the stars that fall from the sky" in Rev 6:13-17 are not the same stars that fall from the sky in Matthew 24? Are you saying that the sun being darkened in Rev 6 is only an eclipse, but that the sun being darkened in Matthew is something greater?



Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:29


The event of Rev 6 seems very significant because of what happens after the sun darkens and the moon turns red.
1) The stars fall.... just as they do in Matthew
2) The sky recedes and rolls up
3) Every MOUNTAIN and ISLAND is removed! That seems pretty catastrophic!

If it is not the same event, when does Rev 6 happen in relation to Matthew 24? Could they be back to back events? I'm just having a hard time with the "stars falling from the sky" in both verses.

Too.... Rev 6 says "For the great day of wrath IS come." If the blood red moon verse is not the sign, then why does the verse say "IS come?"

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I am not sure how this all works out. Perhaps a light will go off soon! haha! :idea:

Alyssa S
Oct 3rd 2008, 06:22 PM
I don't discount the signs in the heavens, such as lunar eclipses on Jewish Holidays, which have occurred in the past and I feel quite certain will occur in the future.

What I do discount is the timing of these events in 2014 and 2015 having much significance. When you go to the NASA website where Mark Blitz gets his information, you will also find that only ONE of these is even visible to those in ISRAEL and most occur in totally uninhabited areas, visible to only a small number of population throughout the entire world. This alone, IMO, reduces the relevancy of these events occurring in 2014 and 2015 to almost no relevancy at all.

Blessings,
BHS

But then if there is no significance to lunar and solar eclipses falling on Jewish Holidays, how come every time they did in the past, something Historical happened regarding the Jewish race?

There would seem to have to be some significance to the four lunar moons taking place in 2014/15... since this has been a theme in the past... wouldn't you agree?

third hero
Oct 3rd 2008, 06:36 PM
[quote]


I am still struggling over these verses, third hero. Are you saying that the stars that fall from the sky" in Rev 6:13-17 are not the same stars that fall from the sky in Matthew 24? Are you saying that the sun being darkened in Rev 6 is only an eclipse, but that the sun being darkened in Matthew is something greater?

Believe it or not, I am not saying that at all. The stars will fall, as Revelation 6 and Matthew 24 suggest. However, I do not believe that "actual stars" from the cosmos will fall upon this planet. I mean, there will not be suns from billions of miles away falling on us, because the world would be completely destroyed as a result.

What I believe is that what John had witnessed, and what the Lord said will happen is this, that meteors, which will fall from the heavens, and look like stars falling from the sky, will fall and pelt those who live on the earth. These "stars" will hit the earth, just as the Lord said. What I believe is that this will happen twice. The first time, mankind will be in for a shock, because before the blood-moon event, meteor showers never resulted in people getting injured or even killed. I believe that it will happen, and the fact that "the stars are falling from the sky" is what will cause humanity to run and hide under mountains.

And of course, there is a difference between the stars falling from the sky during the blood-moon event, and the sign of the Return. For one, the stars do not cease to shine when the blood-moon event happens. They refuse to shine when the Lord returns. There will be darkness in the entire cosmos, as though the universe itself understands that it's Lord has arrived, and He alone must light up the universe.


The event of Rev 6 seems very significant because of what happens after the sun darkens and the moon turns red.
1) The stars fall.... just as they do in Matthew
2) The sky recedes and rolls up
3) Every MOUNTAIN and ISLAND is removed! That seems pretty catastrophic!

If it is not the same event, when does Rev 6 happen in relation to Matthew 24? Could they be back to back events? I'm just having a hard time with the "stars falling from the sky" in both verses.

Indeed, Revelation 6 is truly a VERY important event. This sets the stage for God to set His plan to save Israel into motion. This is a long story, but the short version is this. In Zechariah 12, all of Israel, the remnant that remains after Jerusalem is rensacked by the nations will repent of their sins, (Zechariah 12:10-14), and mainly, the sin of piercing the Lord. IN Zechariah 14, the Lord, while Jerusalem is under attack, will split open the Mount of Olives, providing a means for the remnant to escape. This mirrors Revelation 12, in which the mother of the Savior is taken into a place provided by God, to shield her for 3.5 years. Also, in that very same chapter, immediately after Israel escapes, the Dragon goes after her children, who are defined as the followers of Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus in chapter 24 mentions that the abomination that causes desolation precedes the ransacking of Jerusalem which is imediately followed by the Great Tribulation, and also tells those in Judea to run for the mountains, referring back to Zechariah 14. In Revelation 14, the 144,000 who were sealed were with the Lord at Jerusalem, the place where, again in Zechariah 14, the Lord provides the means for the remnant to escape. It is that remnant of Israel thsat will corporately come to the Lord, and the 144,000 is critical to that process. (I will further explain it later on this evening, when I get off of work, but alas, my time has ran out.


Too.... Rev 6 says "For the great day of wrath IS come." If the blood red moon verse is not the sign, then why does the verse say "IS come?"

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I am not sure how this all works out. Perhaps a light will go off soon! haha! :idea:

It is the wicked who are saying that the wrath of the Lord has come, and thus calls me to conclude that the wicked do not know what they are talking about. The fact that it is the wicked and not the righteous that said that is what clued me to the possibility of the blood-moon sign being the sign that deceives the wicked. The ones that do not know of Joel 2 would think that it is the end of the world.

Forgiven Alaskan
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:12 PM
There are other reasons to believe this year will be the year, and obviously the moons mean something! The day of atonement that year is actually 173,880 days from when Israel took back Jerusalem in 1967. I believe that number is the same ammount of days from when Jeruaslem's walls were built to when Messiah was cut off. This is important because Jesus wept when the Jews did not realize what was really going on. He arrived to the very day and fullfilled prophecy and the people missed it.

Also wouldn't 2015 (day of atonement) be the year of Jubilee?

Alyssa S
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:27 PM
Believe it or not, I am not saying that at all. The stars will fall, as Revelation 6 and Matthew 24 suggest. However, I do not believe that "actual stars" from the cosmos will fall upon this planet. I mean, there will not be suns from billions of miles away falling on us, because the world would be completely destroyed as a result.

What I believe is that what John had witnessed, and what the Lord said will happen is this, that meteors, which will fall from the heavens, and look like stars falling from the sky, will fall and pelt those who live on the earth. These "stars" will hit the earth, just as the Lord said. What I believe is that this will happen twice. The first time, mankind will be in for a shock, because before the blood-moon event, meteor showers never resulted in people getting injured or even killed. I believe that it will happen, and the fact that "the stars are falling from the sky" is what will cause humanity to run and hide under mountains.

And of course, there is a difference between the stars falling from the sky during the blood-moon event, and the sign of the Return. For one, the stars do not cease to shine when the blood-moon event happens. They refuse to shine when the Lord returns. There will be darkness in the entire cosmos, as though the universe itself understands that it's Lord has arrived, and He alone must light up the universe.




AHHHH---HAA!!!
THANK YOU!!! That makes sense!! I kept trying to figure out how I was seeing a "repeat" of Rev 6:12 of the 6th seal in Rev 8:12 of the 7th seal. I could not understand that (IF) Rev 6 and Matt 24 were the same thing and the sun and stars were dark, how they could be "darkened again" in the 7th seal...

I know, I know.... because they are two different events. :blush: :spin:

It's funny how when you have your mind set to thinking one way, how easy you can miss the reality. Yikes!




Indeed, Revelation 6 is truly a VERY important event. This sets the stage for God to set His plan to save Israel into motion. This is a long story, but the short version is this. In Zechariah 12, all of Israel, the remnant that remains after Jerusalem is rensacked by the nations will repent of their sins, (Zechariah 12:10-14), and mainly, the sin of piercing the Lord. IN Zechariah 14, the Lord, while Jerusalem is under attack, will split open the Mount of Olives, providing a means for the remnant to escape. This mirrors Revelation 12, in which the mother of the Savior is taken into a place provided by God, to shield her for 3.5 years. Also, in that very same chapter, immediately after Israel escapes, the Dragon goes after her children, who are defined as the followers of Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus in chapter 24 mentions that the abomination that causes desolation precedes the ransacking of Jerusalem which is imediately followed by the Great Tribulation, and also tells those in Judea to run for the mountains, referring back to Zechariah 14. In Revelation 14, the 144,000 who were sealed were with the Lord at Jerusalem, the place where, again in Zechariah 14, the Lord provides the means for the remnant to escape. It is that remnant of Israel thsat will corporately come to the Lord, and the 144,000 is critical to that process. (I will further explain it later on this evening, when I get off of work, but alas, my time has ran out.


Wow.... Ok, I look forward to that. Thanks so much. So is the time frame between Rev6 and Matt 24 3.5 years? Meaning, the blood moon is the beginning of that 3.5 and Matt 24 is obviously the end. So there is approximately 3.5 years separating these events?




It is the wicked who are saying that the wrath of the Lord has come, and thus calls me to conclude that the wicked do not know what they are talking about. The fact that it is the wicked and not the righteous that said that is what clued me to the possibility of the blood-moon sign being the sign that deceives the wicked. The ones that do not know of Joel 2 would think that it is the end of the world.

[/quote]

Hmmm...interesting. That makes sense. But.... who, that is not familiar with the bible, would think a blood red moon would mean the world was coming to an end? I would think that it would be all of the other catastrophic things happening... like mountains falling that would lead them to think that.

Thanks so much, third hero! It's all coming together.... slowly but surely.

God bless,
Alyssa

Alyssa S
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:41 PM
There are other reasons to believe this year will be the year, and obviously the moons mean something! The day of atonement that year is actually 173,880 days from when Israel took back Jerusalem in 1967. I believe that number is the same ammount of days from when Jeruaslem's walls were built to when Messiah was cut off. This is important because Jesus wept when the Jews did not realize what was really going on. He arrived to the very day and fullfilled prophecy and the people missed it.

Also wouldn't 2015 (day of atonement) be the year of Jubilee?

Thanks, Forgiven Alaskan!

Yes, I believe that is the Year of Jubilee.

SOMETHING very important is bound to happen that year. History says so. I guess time will tell. It is all very, very interesting to say the least.

third hero
Oct 4th 2008, 09:07 AM
And here it is, the true purpose for the sun darkening to black, the moon turning blood-red, and the stars falling from the sky in Revelation 6. This is to set into motion God's plan to save Israel. Done....

Not quite that easy right? Need scriptural support. I get that. Besides, if you merely took my word for it, I would say that there is something wrong with you. I am not Jesus, and so do not trust me. Do as the scriptures say, and "tests the spirits to see if they are of God". Meaning check, recheck and triple check every word that I say with scripture, and see for yourselves where all of this information is coming from, because frankly, I am not that smart. Really, I am not. Come live with me for a day, and you'll see for yourselves. (Ouch, hairi-kairi is no fun at all! :o).

Anyway, in order to prove that God is going to save Israel, we have to se why they need saving. First, their confession as recorded in John 19.

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! -John 19:14

It is no small secret that the Israelites up to that point in history were God's chosen people. If a superbeing led you out of a country, led you to a set land, and settled you there, then you have no choice but to say that God chose you. This was the fate of Israel. They were God's chosen. Now, Pilate is presenting Lord Jesus to the Jewish crowd, proclaiming that here, draped in blood and a robe, is the King of Israel. (okay, I do not have enough time to show you that Jesus is the King of Israel, but read 2 Sam 7, Psalm 2, and most of Isaiah in order to get a hint as to what Jesus is to do as both Israel's savior and King.) What did the Israelites say in response? What did God's chosen, who was supposeto be wise enough to know that the fulfillment of all prophecy had come to them say?

But they cried out, Away with [him], away with [him], crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. -verse 15.

John was there, and he witnessed them saying that.

Oops. Someone screwed up, royally. No king but Caesar? If this is not the utter rejection of the Lord, and His Father to boot, then nothing is.... really.

Now, you see that the Israelites from the moment that they handed over Jesus to be crucified to today, that they ceased to be God's chosen people, out of their own words.

Now, did God expect this? Absolutely. take a look at Zechariah 12.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

Who is the "I" in this verse? Who is the "me whom they have pierced"?

In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Zechariah 12:8-9

Well, I was used in verse 9 to describe who was saying that they were going to seeek out the nations that attacked Israel. Verse 8 showed the one speaking. It is none other than the Lord Himself. Isn't it interesting that the Lord proclaimed through an Old Testament prophet that they, Israel, whom He is prophesied to defend, will mourn over the "me" of that chapter, the Lord Himself, as the ONE WHOM THEY HAD PIERCED? Zechariah proclaimed a lot there when he wrote that, and I am not even sure he understood what God had told him. The predicted the utter rejection and the betrayal of Israel concerning Jesus in the very same verse that he proclaims that they will repent for it. How about that?

God knew that Israel would reject His Son, and seriously, if I were God, I would have destroyed all of them, sparing but a few. Thank God I am not God.

Now knowing that He seen it coming, why would God make a covenant with Israel, saying this?

And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. Exodus 6:7

I am not mocking here when I say this, but isn't this the same as saying to the spouse that you foreknew that was going to kill you, come, I will love thee, and take you as my own? Logic dictates that if you know tragedy is coming, do your best to AVOID it.

However, God is not like that. He makes statements without remorse, even if the ones whom He has made the statements with cause Him much grief. And honestly, this is why we are all still here, because of that part of God's character. Like I said earlier, Israel would be toast is I were God... but so would the rest of the world. Again, thank God that I am not Him.

And so, by saying this decree to Israel through the prophet Moses, God is obligated, in order to say that all of His words are Yeay and amen, to have Israel as His chosen people, even when they do not deserve it. Which brings us to the blood-moon. (TBC)

third hero
Oct 4th 2008, 09:52 AM
pt 2.

Now from that proclamation to today, Israel had ceased to be God's chosen people. Paul goes through great lengths to say that without saying that God has done away with Israel. More to the point, he dedicates an entire chapter on what happened to Israel in God's eyes from the moment of their betrayal to even today. Israel, the nation, was cut off from God. He had to, for they rejected His Son. And again, His words have to be yeay and Amen, and so:

He that hateth me hateth my Father also. -John 15:23.

Well, they rejected and hated Jesus, and so, they hate God the Father as well, and because they hate God, they are not qualified to be God's chosen. And so, a Jew is now in the same boat as the God-hating Gentile, as being lost in bondage to sin and the master of sin, Satan. Now, God could very well throw Israel away permanently and be justified, but He would not be able to say, "my words are yeay and amen", because his word, to have Israel be His people, would surely not mean much, since Israel would have nothing, because they took it away from themselves, although God said that they would have Him as His people.

So, God has to be the bigger man and rescue his disobedient, confused runts of children. Israel has to be saved, because knowing what they were going to do, God decided to have them as His chosen anyway. Because no one can be His chosen without acknowledging Lord Jesus as His Son, He can not give Israel another chance apart from saving them outright. They will have to bow to Lord Jesus, and confess Him as Savior. That and repent for the sin that put them into this situation in the first place, the folly of their forefathers in sentenceing Lord Jesus to death with a proclamation to Ceasar as their king. Paul realized this, and thus wrote as much in Romans 11:23-28.

Now, here's God's plan.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. -Daniel 9:24

God set up a decree. Seventy weeks are decreed for Israel and her city, Jerusalem. By the time the seventy weeks are done, not only will Israel be done with all of her iniquity, but God will make reconciliation with her for iniquity. Take a look at how the last of these seventy weeks turn out.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. -verse 27.

Verses 25-26 chronicle the first 69 weeks, which include a time in between them where Jerusalem and the Temple are destroyed. God then decreed that the last week, the ruler of the people who destroyed the temple will confirm a covenant for one week, and while breaking it mid-week, cause the city to become desolate as the result of the overabundance of abominations.

Ok. How is that God's plan? Isn't He suppose to make reconciliation for Israel's iniquities by the end of the seventieth week? Well, He does. How? Well, let's turn to Matthew 24 for a second.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) -Matthew 24:15

Jesus is making the connection between the seventieth week, and the abomination that causes desolation. In fact, He is saying that the abomination that causes desolation is part and parcel not only to the seventieth week, but His return. My point? Well, what happens after the abomination happens?

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. verses 16-21

When the abomination that causes desolation happens, then all in Judea are instructed to head for the mountains, because of the tribulation that happens as a result.

So, now the seventieth week is attached to the Great Tribulation, whereas the day of the Abomination that causes Desolation would become day one of the Great Tribulation. What does this have to do with Israel's salvation?

Well, follow the pattern here. First an abomination happens during the last week in which Israel is to finish her transgressions. That event will launch Israel into hiding, running away to the mountains. Is there any event in the OT that mirrors this? Well, there is one.


Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Zechariah 14:1-2

Houses rifled, women ravished, and the city of Jerusalem taken? Sounds farmiliar? This is the exact same thing that Jesus was warning Judah about, although now we know that the place He was reference was Jerusalem. Now I know that the amil alert will go up at this point....

Hey, how is that connected? there is no proof that this is the same event as t he event that the Lord described right before His return! Not so fast there. Take a look at the next few verses.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. -verses 3-5.

According to Zechariah, Jerusalem is to be attacked, and then the Lord will save Israel, and then He shall come with "HIS SAINTS". Did your "Second Coming" bell go off? It should, because it did when I read it! (TBC)

third hero
Oct 4th 2008, 10:31 AM
pt 3.

"Ok," the skeptic in you would say, "you managed to prove that there will be a time that Jerusalem will be attacked before the Lord comes, and that that time will correspond with the beginning of the Great Tribulation. But how is Israel saved in the process?"

Notice in Zechariah 14:3, the Lord goes out to fight against the nations that attacked Israel. Notice in chapter 12 what happens when the Lord goes to defend Israel.

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. Zechariah 12:9-10.

What is the spirit of grace? Is it not the very same Holy Spirit that empowers us? That's right, they get it then. The survivors who run through the mountain valley that the Lord will create when Jerusalem is attacked will receive the Spirit of Grace, the Holy Spirit. At that point, Israel, the entire remnant, will be saved. This is when Israel is saved, and God showed it through the OT first. (BTW, Here is where Paul's statement, All Israel shall be saved, got it's roots from.)

So you see, God saves Israel when the abomination that causes desolation is revealed.

Now you want to ask this. What does this have to do with the Blood-Moon?

Notice what has to be done in order for Israel to be saved. They must engage themselves in a covenant with the one who will end up becoming the Abomination that causes Desolation. They must be attacked, and the Mount of Olives has to be split. On top of that, The Lord has to do it BEFORE He comes with His saints. Here's where it gets interesting. If Lord Jesus appears at the Mount of Olives, the gig's up, because He is only suppose to appear when the sun, moon, and star withdraw their shining, as I have hammered out in previous posts. But the Lord is going to be the One who splits the Mount of Olives. Quite a quandry huh?

Enter the 144,000. Let's see who they are first.

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. -Revelation 7:3-4

According to Revelation 7, these are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, all chosen to be servants of God. But that's not all!

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. -Revelaation 14:1

They're in Jerusalem! WITH LORD JESUS! Why is that?! But wait, there's more!

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. -Revelation 14:3-5

As much as it pains me to say this, I have no choice but to say that these 144,000 are going to be the first who will receive the promise of redemption, for they shall be redeemed from among men, as firstfruits to God as the scripture says. But there is another point to all of this. This has to happen. Why?

Jesus can not be spotted before the end of the Great Tribulation, when His sign appears. Nevertheless, only He can split the Mount of Olives and open the portal for the duressed refugees to flee from the death that will be chasing them. If He is there at the Mount of Olives alone, then the people will see Him, and thus He will be made a liar, because no one is to see Him before He comes in clouds of Heaven, seeking to destroy the wicked nations that attacked Jerusalem, picking up all of the surviving believers, and establishing The Kingdom of Heaven on earth. The 144,000 makes that possible.

You see, in order for Jesus to be able to split the Mount of Olives without being spotted, He has to have a lot of people there to shield his appearance. If there are 144,000 transfigured men there, then it would become extremely difficult, if not impossible to determine which one of them is the Lord Jesus splitting the Mount of Olives. This preserves everything that the Lord has had in play, and thus will provide Israel with the means to finally believe in the One who saved them in the hour of their most need. Think about it, if you can not see which person on that Mouunt is Lord Jesus, then you can not definitively say that you seen Lord Jesus. You may, or may not, depending on where you are at when the 144,000 appear.

Why the blood-moon sign for the 144,000? Take a look at Joel 2.

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. verses 31-32.

And one last thing. Who is saved when the Mount of Olives splits? Zechariah 12:14 has that answer.

(vs 10)And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn....
(vs 14)...All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

The blood-moon sign is the signal that God is going to set into motion the events that will lead up to not only the attack against Jerusalem, but also the event that will cause the surviving remnant of Israel to mourn over the Lord, whom they have pierced, and be saved, the actual, physical fulfilment of Joel 2:31-32.

I told you it was a long story, and I omitted the portions in the NT that further confirmed what was written in the Ot concerning the Lord's plan to save Israel, including the two lampstands and the retelling of Zechariah's prophecy in Revelation 12, with verse 17 proving that Jesus's telling of the Great Tribulation is directly tied to the evil one's attempt to snuff out the life of Israel. That, you are going to have to read for yourselves, because my fingers and eyes are exhausted.

I hope this helps a little.

Alyssa S
Oct 4th 2008, 07:03 PM
And here it is, the true purpose for the sun darkening to black, the moon turning blood-red, and the stars falling from the sky in Revelation 6. This is to set into motion God's plan to save Israel. Done....

Not quite that easy right? Need scriptural support. I get that. Besides, if you merely took my word for it, I would say that there is something wrong with you. I am not Jesus, and so do not trust me. Do as the scriptures say, and "tests the spirits to see if they are of God". Meaning check, recheck and triple check every word that I say with scripture, and see for yourselves where all of this information is coming from, because frankly, I am not that smart. Really, I am not. Come live with me for a day, and you'll see for yourselves. (Ouch, hairi-kairi is no fun at all! :o).


Third Hero...

Thank you sooooooooo much for taking all the time you did to post this. I'm amazed! Bless you!! I have not read it yet, and will print it out and take some time to digest it all. I appreciate your humbleness and kindness.

God bless,
Alyssa

Roelof
Oct 4th 2008, 07:34 PM
Alyssa

Please read my post

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133998

resbmc
Oct 9th 2008, 03:52 PM
This number is not right, it is 17640 days from when they retook Jerusalem, 360 times 49 years is 17640 days, but yes those days ends on day of atonement, Sept 23,2015, and after that day you still have the Feast of tabernacals, which the day after should be the year of Jubilee would start.


Thanks, Forgiven Alaskan!

Yes, I believe that is the Year of Jubilee.

SOMETHING very important is bound to happen that year. History says so. I guess time will tell. It is all very, very interesting to say the least.

Grace Alone
Oct 24th 2013, 12:14 PM
http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/5385/images/bloodmoons.jpg

ts5360
Nov 1st 2013, 01:23 PM
Hello I am new to the forums and am just interested sharing my thoughts and questions with those more knowledgeable. I do have a fair grasp of my bible and look to God for answers to the direction I should follow. I am a bible based Christian. I love the word it speaks to me and I find much comfort in it. I try to keep my thoughts toward God and not people, it is to easy to get caught up in worldly things if I don't. I need to remember to follow the teaching of the bible, where current events are in play.

4 Blood Moons 2014 - 2015
I am just now learning of this topic, I tend to want to leave End Time stuff too God. I believe in it and that we are in it, I'm just not sure of where we are. I am of the belief that Israel is where we should keep our eyes, and there seem to be a lot going on over there. Could this be just part of the events that need to be fulfilled that leads into something more? It will be interesting to see what will come of this. I understand it will be the 4th time this has happened that these moons have fallen on Jewish holidays, and big events have happened. I also understand that these moon have happen at other times but not on Jewish holidays and nothing has happened. It will be interesting to see what comes about. God speed and stay prayerful. God Bless, ts5360

carboy
Nov 1st 2013, 04:13 PM
The moon reflects the light of the sun. I do believe there will be signs in the heavens but I also believe this will be a sign at a time of persecution yet seen on this earth. There is a meaning to these signs. All this guessing is interesting but when night comes the Lord will be our light, His Spirit will no longer convict the world and we will see a bloody moon, we will be persecuted as never before. A cry came out at midnight, some had oil others did not. Brother will turn on brother etc. The sun will lose it's shining and the moon turn into blood. If you are without oil, to late. People will search to and fro for a word from the Lord and not be able to find it.

All this guessing seems to set us up for being fools. We then create the attitude that Peter wrote about when there will be mockers saying everything continues as before, but as the prophet wrote "Then my enemy will see, and shame will cover her who said to me, "Where is the Lord your God?" My eyes will look on her; at that time she will be trampled down like mire in the streets."

Grace Alone
Nov 4th 2013, 09:07 AM
I believe the the rebirth of Israel as a nation on 14th May 1948 is one of the most crucial signs that we are indeed living in the last days. The Bible says that the generation who witnessed this event will also witness the coming of the Jesus.

There is a "SIGN" and a "HAPPENING" that proof of this. See my attachment i have put together.

Balabusha
Nov 5th 2013, 08:25 AM
pt 3.

"Ok," the skeptic in you would say, "you managed to prove that there will be a time that Jerusalem will be attacked before the Lord comes, and that that time will correspond with the beginning of the Great Tribulation. But how is Israel saved in the process?"

Notice in Zechariah 14:3, the Lord goes out to fight against the nations that attacked Israel. Notice in chapter 12 what happens when the Lord goes to defend Israel.

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. Zechariah 12:9-10.

What is the spirit of grace? Is it not the very same Holy Spirit that empowers us? That's right, they get it then. The survivors who run through the mountain valley that the Lord will create when Jerusalem is attacked will receive the Spirit of Grace, the Holy Spirit. At that point, Israel, the entire remnant, will be saved. This is when Israel is saved, and God showed it through the OT first. (BTW, Here is where Paul's statement, All Israel shall be saved, got it's roots from.)

So you see, God saves Israel when the abomination that causes desolation is revealed.

Now you want to ask this. What does this have to do with the Blood-Moon?

Notice what has to be done in order for Israel to be saved. They must engage themselves in a covenant with the one who will end up becoming the Abomination that causes Desolation. They must be attacked, and the Mount of Olives has to be split. On top of that, The Lord has to do it BEFORE He comes with His saints. Here's where it gets interesting. If Lord Jesus appears at the Mount of Olives, the gig's up, because He is only suppose to appear when the sun, moon, and star withdraw their shining, as I have hammered out in previous posts. But the Lord is going to be the One who splits the Mount of Olives. Quite a quandry huh?

Enter the 144,000. Let's see who they are first.

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. -Revelation 7:3-4

According to Revelation 7, these are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, all chosen to be servants of God. But that's not all!

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. -Revelaation 14:1

They're in Jerusalem! WITH LORD JESUS! Why is that?! But wait, there's more!

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. -Revelation 14:3-5

As much as it pains me to say this, I have no choice but to say that these 144,000 are going to be the first who will receive the promise of redemption, for they shall be redeemed from among men, as firstfruits to God as the scripture says. But there is another point to all of this. This has to happen. Why?

Jesus can not be spotted before the end of the Great Tribulation, when His sign appears. Nevertheless, only He can split the Mount of Olives and open the portal for the duressed refugees to flee from the death that will be chasing them. If He is there at the Mount of Olives alone, then the people will see Him, and thus He will be made a liar, because no one is to see Him before He comes in clouds of Heaven, seeking to destroy the wicked nations that attacked Jerusalem, picking up all of the surviving believers, and establishing The Kingdom of Heaven on earth. The 144,000 makes that possible.

You see, in order for Jesus to be able to split the Mount of Olives without being spotted, He has to have a lot of people there to shield his appearance. If there are 144,000 transfigured men there, then it would become extremely difficult, if not impossible to determine which one of them is the Lord Jesus splitting the Mount of Olives. This preserves everything that the Lord has had in play, and thus will provide Israel with the means to finally believe in the One who saved them in the hour of their most need. Think about it, if you can not see which person on that Mouunt is Lord Jesus, then you can not definitively say that you seen Lord Jesus. You may, or may not, depending on where you are at when the 144,000 appear.

Why the blood-moon sign for the 144,000? Take a look at Joel 2.

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. verses 31-32.

And one last thing. Who is saved when the Mount of Olives splits? Zechariah 12:14 has that answer.

(vs 10)And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn....
(vs 14)...All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

The blood-moon sign is the signal that God is going to set into motion the events that will lead up to not only the attack against Jerusalem, but also the event that will cause the surviving remnant of Israel to mourn over the Lord, whom they have pierced, and be saved, the actual, physical fulfilment of Joel 2:31-32.

I told you it was a long story, and I omitted the portions in the NT that further confirmed what was written in the Ot concerning the Lord's plan to save Israel, including the two lampstands and the retelling of Zechariah's prophecy in Revelation 12, with verse 17 proving that Jesus's telling of the Great Tribulation is directly tied to the evil one's attempt to snuff out the life of Israel. That, you are going to have to read for yourselves, because my fingers and eyes are exhausted.

I hope this helps a little.

This actually makes very little biblical sense on many levels
1.The 70 weeks has nothing to do with 21 century dogma, if you believe that the 70 weeks projects into modern Israel, then you must accept that modern secular Israel is Covenant Israel, and if it is modern Israel is Covenant Israel, then there is a second salvation outside of the blood of Messiah-that is how the Covenant works.
2.The blood moons has nothing to do with 2014 end times projections-this is from the fertile imaginations, rather than sound, faithful interpretation. The blood moons has to do with the Law of Moses.

shepherdsword
Nov 5th 2013, 09:38 AM
If these blood moons have occurred after the tribulation then that means the tribulation started in 2008. I think we can all agree that isn't the case. The coincidences are interesting but by no means are they conclusive. I wonder if Mark Blitz was credited in the book put out on this subject by another well know Christian leader?

tim_from_pa
Nov 5th 2013, 01:56 PM
4 blood moons in a row does not mandate anything super apocalyptic occurs at that time. Proof of that is what happened in the past, namely the last two seemed to be related to the birth of Israel as a nation, and in 1967 recapturing Jerusalem. The only thing that they need yet is a temple. Then they have everything in place geographically (the place), they are already training priests and made the temple object (the people and objects needed) and they keep the feasts so once they have that sacrifices can begin again. I'm thinking these blood moons have something to do with the temple, at least some decisive historical step in that direction which starts it all off in the years to come.

As for the end times itself, I see several things that have to be in place yet before they come. I see a definite formation (such as the King of the South and allied nations taking shape as the radical Islam nations) but things are not in place yet. I have a feeling my favorite theologian, Sir Isaac Newton, was correct and theres some days yet to pass and I will probably pass on just a decade or two before the end comes. So I won't see it happen, but my next conscious moment will immediately be in the resurrection, and the Kingdom here on this earth where the Lord will have to catch me up and fill in the details. :D

shepherdsword
Nov 5th 2013, 03:58 PM
Well,Tim,I think there is a possibility that there may be some major event that is significant to Israel that occurs during this blood moon period. Maybe a regional war involving them or perhaps even the beginning of rebuilding the temple. I just don't see it as mandating an endtimes scenario. I can't help but notice that they are pretty liberal about correlating the blood moon events. Take the one in 1949-1950 for example. Israel became a nation the year before in 1948...not during the tetrad period.

I can't say Newton is one of my favorite theologians since he rejected the Trinity and the deity of Christ but I respect him as a scientist. If Sir Issac was correct we will not be seeing the end until 2060.

*edit*
I had to change "I just do see" to what I really meant "I just don't see" because Karaite was on me like a duck on a june bug :lol:

Balabusha
Nov 5th 2013, 06:21 PM
Well,Tim,I think there is a possibility that there may be some major event that is significant to Israel that occurs during this blood moon period. Maybe a regional war involving them or perhaps even the beginning of rebuilding the temple. I just do see it as mandating an endtimes scenario. I can't help but notice that they are pretty liberal about correlating the blood moon events. Take the one in 1949-1950 for example. Israel became a nation the year before in 1948...not during the tetrad period.

I can't say Newton is one of my favorite theologians since he rejected the Trinity and the deity of Christ but I respect him as a scientist. If Sir Issac was correct we will not be seeing the end until 2060.

Because of conflict in the region people will claim that this was a fulfilled prophesy even if there is a skirmish.
edited out personal name of pastor (shepherdsword)
He believes and this is contained in his own website that those who disagree with his teachings are hellenistic Pagans. He is far from a scholar, and uses the blood moons in a way never intended by the Bible or the Law of Moses.
The problem is that sensationalosm has taken over sound exegesis, the blood mooons are in the bible and are very clear-but the fact is that the real meaning will not satisfy a church drunk on end times wine.

shepherdsword
Nov 5th 2013, 08:59 PM
Because of conflict in the region people will claim that this was a fulfilled prophesy even if there is a skirmish.
edited out personal name of pastor (shepherdsword)
He believes and this is contained in his own website that those who disagree with his teachings are hellenistic Pagans. He is far from a scholar, and uses the blood moons in a way never intended by the Bible or the Law of Moses.
The problem is that sensationalosm has taken over sound exegesis, the blood mooons are in the bible and are very clear-but the fact is that the real meaning will not satisfy a church drunk on end times wine.

Sister I made a typo in my last post. The "I just do see it as mandating an endtimes scenario was supposed to read "I just don't see" whooops :lol:

As for Blitz,I wasn't aware of where dude was coming from. In fact I never even heard of him until I looked at the link Alyssa posted years ago( and still works by the way). I don't want to sound "hyper spiritual" but I did get a check in my spirit when I was watching the video. Your critique confirms it.
The first time I heard of the "blood moon" event was from Hagee's youtube video from his book on the event. I think I watched maybe 10 minutes before leaving because I just found it as the same kind of sensationalistic fear mongering as the "Y2K" bug and the "2012 Mayan end of the world prediction" I have been going though these kinds of end time event predictions ever since "88 reasons Jesus will return in 1988". Before that actually,I still remember reading the "Late Great Planet Earth" and 'Satan is alive and well on Planet earth" by Hal Lindsey back in the early 70s.
Go eassssy on me sister....go easy :lol:

Balabusha
Nov 6th 2013, 04:32 AM
I am going in for the kill shepherssword...in all honesty I did not even catch your typo, I was not wearing my glasses and the context of what you wrote seemed to fit that you were not in agreement with this blood moon stuff, or Isaac Newtons calculations. I was just adding to it.
Don't you find writing n be a lot harder than talking in person?
If you want to hear some real John Hagee gems-try looking up his prosperity Gospel comments-he believes Jesus lived in a mansion etc.

shepherdsword
Nov 6th 2013, 04:51 AM
I am going in for the kill shepherssword...in all honesty I did not even catch your typo, I was not wearing my glasses and the context of what you wrote seemed to fit that you were not in agreement with this blood moon stuff, or Isaac Newtons calculations. I was just adding to it.
Don't you find writing n be a lot harder than talking in person?
If you want to hear some real John Hagee gems-try looking up his prosperity Gospel comments-he believes Jesus lived in a mansion etc.

Actually sister I gathered that you did miss the typo. I was just joking about you being on me "like a duck on a june bug" :lol:

And yes..I find writing a more difficult form of expression than speaking. I am not a very good writer but I have always managed to come across well as a speaker. My attitude is very clear when speaking but I have found that my emotional state is often misunderstood when writing. There are no tonal inflections or facial expressions to relay where my heart is coming from.



Grace and Peace to you :)

Balabusha
Nov 6th 2013, 06:44 AM
Actually sister I gathered that you did miss the typo. I was just joking about you being on me "like a duck on a june bug" :lol:

And yes..I find writing a more difficult form of expression than speaking. I am not a very good writer but I have always managed to come across well as a speaker. My attitude is very clear when speaking but I have found that my emotional state is often misunderstood when writing. There are no tonal inflections or facial expressions to relay where my heart is coming from.



Grace and Peace to you :)

I find writing hard in a forum, it gets worse for me when I only have a blackberry (and no glasses) fighting with those keys, sometimes I look back and laugh-other times a little embarrassing...I know how to spell simple words, but the crackberry has a mind of its own!

stlcardinals5
Nov 12th 2013, 12:06 PM
In the few short weeks I've been on this message board I do have to say, this is one of the saddest Christian message boards for the End Times subject I've been been blessed to be on.I find a few posters jump on posters for asking questions,posters calling other Christians false prophets,other posters laughing at pretty serious topics like this one and poking fun of it.This seems to be a common theme on this site.It's my understanding this is a End Times forum right?

Now on to the subject.You actually have to read a lot of sources to understand if anything is to the 4 Blood Moons...and read as in pick up some books and read the whole thing,go to the NASA site and get the dates,and read up on past history,it's not very hard!

For example ,when it happened in 1493 and 1494 Jews were expelled from Spain. The blood moons in 1949 and 1950 came right after the nation of Israel was assembled, giving the Jews a homeland for the first time in thousands of years.And in 1967 and 1968 it was linked to the Six-Day War.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Blitz and it seems a few get their rocks off from poking fun at the guy on this site,it's not about him but about the information he is putting out.I'm sure many laughed at Daniel!I'm sure many wondered why God gave King Nebuchadnezzar such a important dream!

From a interview with Blitz
“Not only are there four blood moons on 4/15/14, 10/8/14, 4/4/15, and 9/28/15, but the added significance is that the total solar eclipse on 3/20/15 is on the biblical calendar of Nisan 1. Nisan 1 begins the religious New Year according to the scriptures,” Biltz explained. “This date was the grand opening of Moses tabernacle in the wilderness. This is the day a great sign came and fire fell to light the burnt offering.

“So here we have a total solar eclipse beginning the religious year followed two weeks later by a total lunar eclipse/blood moon on Passover followed by the next solar eclipse (partial) on Sept 13th which just so happens to be Rosh Hashanah!” Biltz continued.
The pastor of El-Shaddai Ministries went into great detail about the significant events that have occurred on these dates in history and scripture.

“According to Judaism this is the day Adam was created . This is also begins a shemittah year 7th for the land to rest. The last two shemittah years on Rosh Hashanah, there was global economic catastrophe. In 2001, the Dow fell 7 percent. In 2008, the Dow fell 7 percent. In 2015, could this be our third strike and a major collapse of the global economy?” Biltz pondered.
“The eclipse of the sun signals danger to the nations and of the moon danger to Israel, this is then followed by the total lunar eclipse/blood moon on the Feast of Tabernacles. Not only that, according to NASA, this total blood moon on 9/28/15 will be at perigee meaning it will be a super moon and seen in Jerusalem during the feast of sukkot while the Jewish people will be dwelling outside in their sukkahs looking up toward the heavens.”

“The odds of this string of events are truly astronomical!” he concluded.

None of what he just said isn't true,and that is what matters!It's sad the times we live in when Christians tear down other Christians,isn't there enough of that in the world from unbelievers??Will anything happen on these dates or right after?No one on here know's,but is it interesting??YES and VERY!That won't stop a good stoning from folks on the subject.Let's see what God says about the subject!

In the last days, God says,I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions,your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,I will pour out my Spirit in those days,and they will prophesy.I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below,blood and fire and billows of smoke.The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.-Acts 2

And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years, and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.-Genesis 1

Banislam
Nov 13th 2013, 01:51 AM
There's a difference between a blood red moon and a moon that does not give light.

The blood red moon comes at the beginning of tribulation. The moon does often look red when it first rises because we view it through a longer distance of the earths spheres than when it's right above. It's the particles in the spheres that make it look red. At the beginning of tribulation it will look red even when viewed right above because of stuff emitted into the atmosphere. At the end of tribulation there will be so much stuff emitted into the atmosphere that it won't even look red anymore but rather not give any light at all. There will only be a dim glow in the sky as though we are viewing it through a thin set of clouds.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Banislam
Nov 13th 2013, 02:03 AM
In the few short weeks I've been on this message board I do have to say, this is one of the saddest Christian message boards for the End Times subject I've been been blessed to be on.I find a few posters jump on posters for asking questions,posters calling other Christians false prophets,other posters laughing at pretty serious topics like this one and poking fun of it.This seems to be a common theme on this site.It's my understanding this is a End Times forum right?

I've been on several forums in the last ten + years and I believe that people here are much better behaved than most. In fact, so far, better than all of them except some of the really small inactive ones. The only un-Christlike, snide, arrogant, mean, hateful and offensive people on this forum that I've encountered so far are a few on the political section of the forum. That's why I avoid that section. My first day here I had a punk tell me that he wouldn't want to have a discussion with me any more than he would want to have a discussion with a five year old. I leave those kind of people to their own foolishness.

bunnymuldare
Nov 14th 2013, 03:27 AM
stlcardinals,

There are so many facets to this blood moon tetrad event that it is almost too incredible to be believed. I think the naysayers on here are just normally cautious about latching on to the incredible. But the facts are just so in your face if you want to look at them it is just awesome. Isn't it?

I've been looking at the end time prophecies and have concluded that we are the witnesses, Christians flanked on either side by Olives or Jews, the two spirits that stand before the Lord of the earth. Zechariah 4.

And as far as the temple being rebuilt for the antichrist to stand in, there's already an abomination standing on the temple mount claiming to be God.

The fig tree has budded, Ezekiel's dry bones are alive and doing well. 1948

The gospel has been preached around the world.

And the gentiles are no longer trampling down Jerusalem, not since 1967.

It seems to me all that's left are the signs in the heavens and then Jesus returns. Of course God has some stored up wrath to let loose, but I'm not planning to be a part of that. I'm praying to escape it anyway.

Dani
Nov 14th 2013, 04:50 AM
I will admit I have not struggled throughout this entire thread; I can't sit here long enough, so my question may have been answered. If so, please just ignore me.



I've heard Hagee preach on the blood moons, and am familiar with what he says, however, I also did research to find out how many 'blood moons' there have been since records have been kept.

One should to do this for themselves before putting stock in someone's (anyone's ) words, when it is so easily done... :)


And, that's about all I have to say about that.:) :)


If I spoke 'out of school', as I said, please *ignore me.


(*I have been told it is not that hard :eek: )


Blessings to you all..
Dani

Balabusha
Nov 14th 2013, 06:01 AM
In the few short weeks I've been on this message board I do have to say, this is one of the saddest Christian message boards for the End Times subject I've been been blessed to be on.I find a few posters jump on posters for asking questions,posters calling other Christians false prophets,other posters laughing at pretty serious topics like this one and poking fun of it.This seems to be a common theme on this site.It's my understanding this is a End Times forum right?

Now on to the subject.You actually have to read a lot of sources to understand if anything is to the 4 Blood Moons...and read as in pick up some books and read the whole thing,go to the NASA site and get the dates,and read up on past history,it's not very hard!

For example ,when it happened in 1493 and 1494 Jews were expelled from Spain. The blood moons in 1949 and 1950 came right after the nation of Israel was assembled, giving the Jews a homeland for the first time in thousands of years.And in 1967 and 1968 it was linked to the Six-Day War.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Blitz and it seems a few get their rocks off from poking fun at the guy on this site,it's not about him but about the information he is putting out.I'm sure many laughed at Daniel!I'm sure many wondered why God gave King Nebuchadnezzar such a important dream!

From a interview with Blitz
“Not only are there four blood moons on 4/15/14, 10/8/14, 4/4/15, and 9/28/15, but the added significance is that the total solar eclipse on 3/20/15 is on the biblical calendar of Nisan 1. Nisan 1 begins the religious New Year according to the scriptures,” Biltz explained. “This date was the grand opening of Moses tabernacle in the wilderness. This is the day a great sign came and fire fell to light the burnt offering.

“So here we have a total solar eclipse beginning the religious year followed two weeks later by a total lunar eclipse/blood moon on Passover followed by the next solar eclipse (partial) on Sept 13th which just so happens to be Rosh Hashanah!” Biltz continued.
The pastor of El-Shaddai Ministries went into great detail about the significant events that have occurred on these dates in history and scripture.

“According to Judaism this is the day Adam was created . This is also begins a shemittah year 7th for the land to rest. The last two shemittah years on Rosh Hashanah, there was global economic catastrophe. In 2001, the Dow fell 7 percent. In 2008, the Dow fell 7 percent. In 2015, could this be our third strike and a major collapse of the global economy?” Biltz pondered.
“The eclipse of the sun signals danger to the nations and of the moon danger to Israel, this is then followed by the total lunar eclipse/blood moon on the Feast of Tabernacles. Not only that, according to NASA, this total blood moon on 9/28/15 will be at perigee meaning it will be a super moon and seen in Jerusalem during the feast of sukkot while the Jewish people will be dwelling outside in their sukkahs looking up toward the heavens.”

“The odds of this string of events are truly astronomical!” he concluded.

None of what he just said isn't true,and that is what matters!It's sad the times we live in when Christians tear down other Christians,isn't there enough of that in the world from unbelievers??Will anything happen on these dates or right after?No one on here know's,but is it interesting??YES and VERY!That won't stop a good stoning from folks on the subject.Let's see what God says about the subject!

In the last days, God says,I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions,your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,I will pour out my Spirit in those days,and they will prophesy.I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below,blood and fire and billows of smoke.The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.-Acts 2

And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years, and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.-Genesis 1

What I find astronomical is that anyone would listen to this guy, he tells his audience that anyone who denies his claims are pagan Hellenists.
Secondly he claims to be a reader of Torah, then he comes up with this blood moon garbage, it is just in his imagination and not on Torah study. The blood moon has nothing to do with a single even or eclipses, it has to do with the Mosaic Covenant.
When you read the moon goes red, or the sun goes black, the sky rolls up like a scroll and the mountains quake, the Prophets are invoking the Mosaic Covenant, either against some country that is hindering Gods will in relation to covenant Israel, or is against Israel for disobeying the Covenant, it is judgement language.
the heavens and the earth are called in Covenant violation-it is part of the Mosaic Covenant

Deuteronomy 4:26
I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. You will not live there long but will certainly be destroyed.

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

This is not an obscure passage, but is part of the terms of the Mosaic Covenant, it has the structure of an ancient contract, and in that contract the gods were invoked in it as witnesses, but the One True God is the only God and calls upon His creation as witnesses to the Covenant

ross3421
Nov 14th 2013, 09:18 AM
The sun relects upon the moon thus we see the moon bright at night. So is the moon becoming blood a relection of the sun????

Re 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

So we have the sun blackened by the angel standing in the midst like an eclipse, the moon will relect the red of the vesture of the one standing. And yes, Christ does appear as an angel, angel of the Lord upon his return.

stlcardinals5
Nov 14th 2013, 11:08 AM
stlcardinals,

There are so many facets to this blood moon tetrad event that it is almost too incredible to be believed. I think the naysayers on here are just normally cautious about latching on to the incredible. But the facts are just so in your face if you want to look at them it is just awesome. Isn't it?

I've been looking at the end time prophecies and have concluded that we are the witnesses, Christians flanked on either side by Olives or Jews, the two spirits that stand before the Lord of the earth. Zechariah 4.

And as far as the temple being rebuilt for the antichrist to stand in, there's already an abomination standing on the temple mount claiming to be God.

The fig tree has budded, Ezekiel's dry bones are alive and doing well. 1948

The gospel has been preached around the world.

And the gentiles are no longer trampling down Jerusalem, not since 1967.

It seems to me all that's left are the signs in the heavens and then Jesus returns. Of course God has some stored up wrath to let loose, but I'm not planning to be a part of that. I'm praying to escape it anyway.

Maybe,but I've seen the same two posters tear these types of subject up for weeks,with very little to back up the tearing down..I have very little tolerance for such things in person,and with this being a message board, it's best I put these folks on ignore.It would great is someone would send me a inbox on how to do that.

Brother Blitz is a fellow Messianic Jew, he has a rather huge following among us ,both in the States and Israel.He's brought more fellow Jews to the Messiah that this whole message board combined!I've noticed a couple of posters on here cast a lot of stones,and cast them rather fast!It's a shame folks seem set on doing that to other Christans,who are doing nothing but putting out information that is grounded in facts.I'm all or debating about it,but that isn't what I'm seeing!I'm seeing people tear down both Hagee and Blitz, and they come off as having a agenda.

bunnymuldare
Nov 14th 2013, 06:03 PM
cardinal,
I know it can be frustrating. I'm suspicious at times too. But if they have an agenda, remember, so does God, and He is why we are here. Count it all joy.

Balabusha
Nov 15th 2013, 08:00 AM
Maybe,but I've seen the same two posters tear these types of subject up for weeks,with very little to back up the tearing down.It's a common theme here,and it's something I was given a warning about on another message board I post on, from a number of posters that have left this board because of this very thing.I have very little tolerance for such things in person,and with this being a message board, it's best I put these folks on ignore.It would great is someone would send me a inbox on how to do that.

Brother Blitz is a fellow Messianic Jew, he has a rather huge following among us ,both in the States and Israel.He's brought more fellow Jews to the Messiah that this whole message board combined!I've noticed a couple of posters on here cast a lot of stones,and cast them rather fast!It's a shame folks seem set on doing that to other Christans,who are doing nothing but putting out information that is grounded in facts.I'm all or debating about it,but that isn't what I'm seeing!I'm seeing people tear down both Hagee and Blitz, and they come off as having a agenda.

I can supply endless * edited out personal name of pastors (shepherdsword)* they are very wealthy from fleecing some very good christian people-there is no agenda, and no one is splitting hairs, they just tell the people what they want to hear and make a few bucks
-Since you are a Messianic Jew, were you converted from Judaism? If so, did you study the Torah? If you studied Torah, then what I wrote in the previous post should ring a bell. We were called to study Torah, Tanakh and Apostles, not others pet traditions

shepherdsword
Nov 15th 2013, 08:30 AM
*Note*

While we may disagree with another Pastor's methods or tactics we do not allow open bashing of Pastors. They are not here to defend themselves and this is against forum rules. Let us debate ideas and concepts and not the person(s) holding them.
I edited out a few places where specific names where mentioned. Please understand.

Blessings

ross3421
Nov 15th 2013, 10:37 AM
What happened to the moderators on this Forum?????? Certain folks need a little discipline on here!!!!!!!

stlcardinals5
Nov 15th 2013, 01:24 PM
*Note*

While we may disagree with another Pastor's methods or tactics we do not allow open bashing of Pastors. They are not here to defend themselves and this is against forum rules. Let us debate ideas and concepts and not the person(s) holding them.
I edited out a few places where specific names where mentioned. Please understand.

Blessings


Thank you for understanding!I was a little harsh in grouping the whole message board into the thoughts of what a few are doing,but the casting of stones from a few was very uncalled for.

Balabusha
Nov 15th 2013, 07:56 PM
From the Torah/Tanak can you defend the blood moons from this perspective? If you are able to quote and spread false teachers teachings, and then hide behind this with no opposition, then I should be able to quote their heretical teachings, or maybe I will just use a pastor who explains their false teachings, and hide behind them. The bible does not seem to be used on this topic

stlcardinals5
Nov 16th 2013, 07:04 AM
The blood moons pop up again in the documentary about the Star of Bethlehem.NASA star pattern website shows there was a blood moon the night of Christ being on the cross.Rick Larson was able to date a lot of events using the Bible and good ole fashion research.

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff-Gp194XUU&list=TLa8d5qdj-9hpo6n5DaR231Dbu1CPbLucX

bunnymuldare
Nov 16th 2013, 06:17 PM
stlcardinals,
I just watched that the other night. That is a great video. People should watch it every Christmas.

They pointed out that the star was in the constellation Leo which is Judah. And that the king star regulus was in retrograde with the planet Jupiter, also the king planet. King, king, king. that's how the wise men new to check it out.

ISON, this comet that is coming, everyone usually regards comets as a bad omen. Well, this bad omen is traveling through the constellation Leo, with regulus close by along with the planet Mars, which is the war planet. I'm not much for looking at the stars in this way, but in this case we are told to look up. There will be signs in the heavens. Bad omen, the king is coming in war in Judah. That's what I see.

Yes, it is a stretch. Don't take it to the bank.

Here's another thing, that supposed bad omen is closest to the sun on Thanksgiving Day. It would give us much to be thankful for if it just burns up and goes away. But if it doesn't, it will be most visible on Christmas day. All this is just too much to be coincidence.

bunnymuldare
Nov 16th 2013, 07:04 PM
stlcardinals,

This is my favorite youtube video of Pastor Biltz on the fall feasts. I learned so much. It is long though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llOi5nKIb9Q

stlcardinals5
Nov 16th 2013, 07:32 PM
stlcardinals,

This is my favorite youtube video of Pastor Biltz on the fall feasts. I learned so much. It is long though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llOi5nKIb9Q

Thanks for the link!I'll for sure take the time to watch it in the next day or two.Brother Biltz is a good man...he has even given free teachings to rather large crowds on this subject.One of the major issues I have with Hagee when it comes to this subject is he likes to hint around with date setting for Christ return,I have issues with any kind of date setting.He'll back off from doing,then he'll start hinting at it again, always like he wants to set dates,but backing off right before he does.

bunnymuldare
Nov 16th 2013, 09:25 PM
stlcardinals,
While we are on the subject of signs.
check this out.

ISON glows green from fluorescing cyanogen and diatomic carbon gases; Mars orange from iron oxide in its soil and Regulus, a star 150 times brighter than the sun and a good deal hotter, shines pale blue-white. - See more at: http://astrobob.areavoices.com/2013/....ayRfsnMz.dpuf

CYANOGIN per wiki
Like other inorganic cyanides, cyanogen is very toxic, as it readily undergoes reduction to cyanide, which poisons the cytochrome c oxidase complex, thus interrupting the mitochondrial electron transfer chain. Cyanogen gas is an irritant to the eyes and respiratory system. Inhalation can lead to headache, dizziness, rapid pulse, nausea, vomiting, loss of consciousness, convulsions, and death, depending on exposure.[14]
Cyanogen produces the second hottest known natural flame (after carbon subnitride) with a temperature of over 4525 °C when it burns in oxygen.[15][

The way I understand it, earth will pass through ISON's tail after Christmas. Yikes!

shootingdead
Dec 8th 2013, 11:43 PM
the only other time there will be 4 lunar eclipses on 4 feast days this millennium is in 2582/83.

Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

the 69 weeks is usually considered to be up to the first coming of Jesus but i wondered if there could be any significance in the calculation below even though it doesn't include the 7 weeks.

if the weeks are 49 years (7 x 7 years) then 62 weeks (62 x 49) equals 3038 years and 3038 years from the decree of Artaxerxes I around 457 BC is 2581.

it is probably just a coincidence but i wondered if it could refer to both the first and second coming of Jesus?

stlcardinals5
Dec 11th 2013, 04:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn5xFsIih7Y&feature=youtu.be

New video from Blitz.

shootingdead
Dec 11th 2013, 09:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn5xFsIih7Y&feature=youtu.be

New video from Blitz.I think the most interesting and impressive part is where he explains that the 4th blood moon will be
1) a full moon
2) a total lunar eclipse
3) a super moon i.e. at it's nearest point to the earth and therefore larger
4) visible in Israel
5) on the feast of tabernacles
this is between 8 minutes 30 seconds and 10 minutes.

jerusalemgifts
Jan 20th 2014, 09:11 PM
You are certainly being sensitive to the possibilites