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View Full Version : Is this Economic crisis the preliminary of the "7 year Great Tribulation"?



aceinthehouse
Sep 30th 2008, 12:24 AM
I ask because this will affect the whole world!

All these Bank takeovers and mergers and now a Bailout, that very well could be a lose-lose situation...

Take $700 Billion Bailout=More Government control and more likely more corrupt buisness dealings with rich CEO's...

Deny $700 Billion Bailout=Risk Market collapse and total recession/depression.

Note:And if Obama gets voted in and raises the taxes after all this,then we are....well,you see what i'm saying.


I keep hearing from many sources that the World may have to "UNITE" the world banking to prevent a world collapse on the economy...(Europe lost a trillion dollars today...by the way from this ordeal)

Note:(Israel is in the process right now for a peace treaty being signed between now and a few more months)

See where I'm getting at?

Could someone miraculously get us out of this mess...?:pray::hmm:

Your thoughts?

HisLeast
Sep 30th 2008, 12:51 AM
Could be. Also, might not be at all.

Firstly because I'm growing to be suspicious of a "7 year anything" in Revelation. Secondly because I try not to view scripture through the filter of the American experience.

jesusfreak123
Sep 30th 2008, 12:55 AM
Wow!:o I honestly don't know. I actually think it might be! Well, I'll be gone anyway, but I think we should try harder than ever to bring people to Christ, don't you? Anyway, I'll try to do some research about it.

DeafPosttrib
Sep 30th 2008, 01:09 AM
My beliefs about this currently world economy crisis. I believe when the world economy collapsed completely, then 666 world system will be set up to fix world economy crisis for the purpose of "buy" or "sell"(Rev. 13:16-17), by make new law(Dan. 7:25) to force everyone be required to have the mark as "I.D." before they can buy or sell things. I believe this currently world economy crisis are heading toward collapse right now, as the 666 world system is coming next. It would not be longer. Everything all will be change immediately. We better be prepare for it, and be strong faith in Christ, deny the 666 world system, look up at Jesus, willing die for Jesus.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

mfowler12
Sep 30th 2008, 01:45 AM
My beliefs about this currently world economy crisis. I believe when the world economy collapsed completely, then 666 world system will be set up to fix world economy crisis for the purpose of "buy" or "sell"(Rev. 13:16-17), by make new law(Dan. 7:25) to force everyone be required to have the mark as "I.D." before they can buy or sell things. I believe this currently world economy crisis are heading toward collapse right now, as the 666 world system is coming next. It would not be longer. Everything all will be change immediately. We better be prepare for it, and be strong faith in Christ, deny the 666 world system, look up at Jesus, willing die for Jesus.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
Why do you say "force everyone (to) be required to have the mark as 'I.D'?"

Isn't the mark a sign of worship? The way I read it; I will be willing to take the mark to worship the earthly god. Am I reading this wrong?

aceinthehouse
Sep 30th 2008, 02:06 AM
Is it also a coincidence,that the DOW was down an all-time American low at -777?(gods number)?

Oh...yea...Tomorrow is the Jewish Holiday!

God bless everyone!:pray:

HisLeast
Sep 30th 2008, 02:35 AM
Is it also a coincidence,that the DOW was down an all-time American low at -777?(gods number)?

Still not equal to the % loss in value in the 80's. Bad day? You betcha? Herald of the end times? Ummmmm... Lets wait on that.

Gods Child
Sep 30th 2008, 03:05 AM
I heard about 2-3 months ago from another Christian that they listen to this on a prophecy video that they were going to crash some of the banks in September. I did not think much about it until September came and it did happen.
The Federal Reserve has the power and the duty to stop it, but they will not...Why? They did the same thing in the crash of 29'. All of it is intended to bring about One World Government.

I think the reason for the falling dollar in the USA is to bring about the N.A.F.T.A (NAU) area. This is just my felling on it, but I think it is a plan to bring our dollar so low that they will tell us that we must join forces with Mexico & Canada to come out of it. They already have our money ready. It is called the Amero. It's funny they already have the new money to replace ours, which tells me that they planned it from the beginning.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/the_amero_conspiracy/

What I believe is taking place is to set up America, Canada & Mexico, just like they set up the European Union and they now have a Euro as their currency. I also think that they are splitting the world up into 10 sections (10 horns/kingdoms).

Saved7
Sep 30th 2008, 03:09 AM
Could be the beginning, but then it could straighten out or it could be the thing that leads up to the beginnning of the 7 year deal. But since I am not God, I will not try to tell you either way.;)
Although...the only thing I see in Revelation is a 3 1/2 year thing.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 03:47 AM
I ask because this will affect the whole world!

All these Bank takeovers and mergers and now a Bailout, that very well could be a lose-lose situation...

Take $700 Billion Bailout=More Government control and more likely more corrupt buisness dealings with rich CEO's...

Deny $700 Billion Bailout=Risk Market collapse and total recession/depression.

Note:And if Obama gets voted in and raises the taxes after all this,then we are....well,you see what i'm saying.


I keep hearing from many sources that the World may have to "UNITE" the world banking to prevent a world collapse on the economy...(Europe lost a trillion dollars today...by the way from this ordeal)

Note:(Israel is in the process right now for a peace treaty being signed between now and a few more months)

See where I'm getting at?

Could someone miraculously get us out of this mess...?:pray::hmm:

Your thoughts?I've maintained for year that a worldwide economic crash would be the event that opens the way for the Tribulation more than any other one event. However, that doesn't mean "this is it". There have been numerous economic downturns over the years and we obviousy haven't had the Tribulation yet. So we need to just calm down, be watchful, and keep our linen on.

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 03:47 AM
Is it also a coincidence,that the DOW was down an all-time American low at -777?(gods number)?

Oh...yea...Tomorrow is the Jewish Holiday!

God bless everyone!:pray:

I was just about to post the same thing!

The Dow today is down 777
The Bail-Out is 700 Billion
Today at sunset was the beginning of the 7 year Sabbatical Cycle.

"7" is the number for completion and EXTREMELY significant throughout Scripture.

It truly makes you wonder!!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63076

White Spider
Sep 30th 2008, 03:52 AM
Was waiting for someone to start a thread on this . . . and I also noticed the 777 :hmm:

Anyways my beliefs are this:

A single world wide governmental/economic structure cannot fail except by inner rebellion.

I'm sure the top people of the world realize this as well . . . and thus are attempting to put said structure in place.

This American Crisis is a prime example why such a structure is needed . . . the current state of the world is bad because America is bad . . . one failing nation brings all others down . . . and we are failing because of our relations to the rest of the world. (Basically it's a comparison thing, we are weaker because others are stronger.)

But this single world wide structure eliminates comparisons and thus the ability to fail. (Say there is only one company making pizza in the world, it's the best pizza in the world because it's the only pizza. More companies making different kinds of pizza allow people to choose the best and the worst to fail.) This same idea is being applied to governments, if there is only one it is the best. No competition equals no failure.


Could be. Also, might not be at all.

Firstly because I'm growing to be suspicious of a "7 year anything" in Revelation. Secondly because I try not to view scripture through the filter of the American experience.

This is far from filtering the Bible through the American experience . . . the U.S. economy is entwined with the world. We fail the world fails, as seen during the Great Depression. We brought the world crumbling down. This thread may be on the U.S.A.s economic crisis, but I assure you all there is plenty going on globally as well.


. . . I think the reason for the falling dollar in the USA is to bring about the N.A.F.T.A (NAU) area. This is just my felling on it, but I think it is a plan to bring our dollar so low that they will tell us that we must join forces with Mexico & Canada to come out of it. They already have our money ready. It is called the Amero. It's funny they already have the new money to replace ours, which tells me that they planned it from the beginning. . . .

I'm glad someone else brought the Amero up. I was wondering why I hadn't heard anything about the Amero for a while.

The Amero and N.A.F.T.A. are step one . . .


. . . I also think that they are splitting the world up into 10 sections (10 horns/kingdoms).

This is where we are headed, ten world regions. Ten major Unions to create global economic stability and maintain peaceful relations. Once these ten are in place it is likely there will be a Union of Unions (The One World Government Structure).


Still not equal to the % loss in value in the 80's. Bad day? You betcha? Herald of the end times? Ummmmm... Lets wait on that.

No this is not the worst single day % loss . . . but do you really have to wait. (A truck headed for a brick wall and the brakes are out, just because it hasn't hit yet, do you need to wait until it hits to know that it is going to?)

Does this economic crisis alone scream the apocalypse? No . . . but is this economic crisis the only thing happening in the world? NO!

It seems so many people enter a thread and everything else disappears. Just because this thread discusses the American economic crisis don't forget the other things happening in the world.

Some of you are trying to look at a puzzle with one piece in front of you. Just because we are focusing on a single piece does not mean you throw the rest of the puzzle away . . . keep the pieces connected.

Looking at everything going on in the world it should be beyond obvious what is happening. Looking at a single event, yes, there is doubt . . . but the end of the world is not brought about by a single event, is it?


Could someone miraculously get us out of this mess...?:pray::hmm:

Your thoughts?

Could someone get us out of this mess? I would say NO.

The Serenity Prayer comes to mind: God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.

third hero
Sep 30th 2008, 03:57 AM
My beliefs about this currently world economy crisis. I believe when the world economy collapsed completely, then 666 world system will be set up to fix world economy crisis for the purpose of "buy" or "sell"(Rev. 13:16-17), by make new law(Dan. 7:25) to force everyone be required to have the mark as "I.D." before they can buy or sell things. I believe this currently world economy crisis are heading toward collapse right now, as the 666 world system is coming next. It would not be longer. Everything all will be change immediately. We better be prepare for it, and be strong faith in Christ, deny the 666 world system, look up at Jesus, willing die for Jesus.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

believe it or not, deafposttrib, we are actually close in what we believe here. You believe that a complete economic meltdown is what will cause the Beast system to come about. I believe that it will eventually lead straight to the Beast. I do not believe that the Beast will risk being exposed before his time by bailing the US out of this crisis. I believe, however, that those who will bail the US out, if they do, will be those who are either in league with, or will be in league with, the Beast. If the Us economy completely flat-lines, then those countries that stand to benefit from all of this will probably be used to form the nations that the Beast will use to rise to power.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 04:36 AM
Can we please not make a mountain from a molehill over the pure coincidence of the "777" in the stock market today?

I bought a meal at Whataburger a few days ago that came to $7.77. Does that make it any more "blessed" than a Burger King meal that was $7.82?

I had a customer today that lived at 777 Pearl Oyster Drive in Fort Worth. How does that person have anymore supernatural connection than the guy next door 781 Pearl Oyster Drive?

But a few months ago I received a check that was exactly $666.00. Do you think I threw it in the trash? Heck no, I whistled a happy tune all the way to the bank with it.

We need to chill on seeing "signs" everywhere we turn.

third hero
Sep 30th 2008, 04:58 AM
Can we please not make a mountain from a molehill over the pure coincidence of the "777" in the stock market today?

I bought a meal at Whataburger a few days ago that came to $7.77. Does that make it any more "blessed" than a Burger King meal that was $7.82?

I had a customer today that lived at 777 Pearl Oyster Drive in Fort Worth. How does that person have anymore supernatural connection than the guy next door 781 Pearl Oyster Drive?

But a few months ago I received a check that was exactly $666.00. Do you think I threw it in the trash? Heck no, I whistled a happy tune all the way to the bank with it.

We need to chill on seeing "signs" everywhere we turn.

Well Luke,
if you do not want that check for $666, let me know, because I know exactly what to do with it. :spin:

valleybldr
Sep 30th 2008, 10:12 AM
The markets were down 7% but 6 is the number of man not 7. God often places the number 7 on the things that belong to him but this one belongs to the failings of men.

todd

=====================


I was just about to post the same thing!

The Dow today is down 777
The Bail-Out is 700 Billion
Today at sunset was the beginning of the 7 year Sabbatical Cycle.

"7" is the number for completion and EXTREMELY significant throughout Scripture.

It truly makes you wonder!!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63076

Roelof
Sep 30th 2008, 10:36 AM
Please read my thread:

http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1806561&postcount=718

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 11:27 AM
I was just about to post the same thing!

The Dow today is down 777
The Bail-Out is 700 Billion
Today at sunset was the beginning of the 7 year Sabbatical Cycle.

"7" is the number for completion and EXTREMELY significant throughout Scripture.

It truly makes you wonder!!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63076

The day of the announcement of AIG's economic woes, the gold price rose to 777 US dollars per ounce (I live in South Africa, a big gold-mining country, and I noticed it when it happened). I thought, "Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of the U.S dollar as a world-based currency?

Yesterday's 777 fall took place on the Eve of the Day of Trumpets - anyone who understand the spiritual meaning of Rosh Hashanah won't overlook that - one wonders what time it was in Jerusalem when the stock market fall by 777 points was taking place in New York - was it at nightfall in Jerusalem when all the trumpets were being blown on Rosh Hashanah?

1 Seven and completeness:

The Hebrew word SHABA (Strong’s #H7650) means “to be COMPLETE”. It’s the root-word for shabat (H7676) and shib ‛ah (SEVEN – H7651).

The seventh day completes the cycle, and the “eighth” day begins a new cycle (excuse me for stating the obvious!)

Sabbath day = seventh day. Sabbath year = seventh year. The 8th year marks a new beginning (Leviticus chapter 23).

7 x 7 Sabbath-years completes another cycle, and the fiftieth year (the year of Jubilee) marks the beginning of a new cycle (according to some Rabbis, but not according to others).

The same goes for the Day of Pentecost (Pente = 50), which marks a new beginning; because it comes the day after the completion of 7 x 7 days counting from the day after Passover, the day our Lord was crucified.

The Bible opens with a pattern of seven and closes with a book which is saturated with sevens and cycles of seven.

2 Seven and judgment:

The first eight chapters of the book of Genesis follow the first eight perfectly natural divisions of the book; and it is in the SEVENTH division (chapter) of Genesis that we read about God’s judgment for the sins of the world coming upon the world in the form of the flood - the eighth chapter speaks of a new beginning – the ark resting on Mount Ararat, etc. Is this a coincidence? No – and we’ll see why in a moment:

The flood began to be poured out upon the world in the seventh of seven days after Noah had entered the ark (Gen.5: 31; Gen.7: 1-10); and Noah’s father, Lamech (who represents the last generation to have died before the flood) was 777 years old when he died.

Much later on, we read that after the Israelites had marched around the city of Jericho for seven days with seven priests blowing seven trumpets (7,7,7), the city was judged by God at the hand of the Israelites on the seventh day, the seventh time the Israelites had marched around the city, at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (7,7,7 – Joshua 6: 2-5).

And in the same way that in the first book of the Old Testament, we read about God’s judgment for the world’s sins in the SEVENTH chapter and a new beginning in the EIGHTH chapter, so in the first book of the New Testament, the record of God’s judgment for the sins of the world falling upon our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (Isa.53: 6; 2Cor.5: 21) is recorded in the SEVENTH division of Matthew’s gospel, and the EIGHTH division of Matthew’s gospel is the record of a new beginning – His resurrection from the dead on the EIGHTH day.

In the book of Revelation, Jesus Christ (whose crucifixion is recorded in the seventh division of Matthew’s gospel and whose resurrection from the dead on the eighth day is recorded in the eighth division of Matthew’s gospel) is shown to judge the seventh “head” of a seven-headed “beast”…

… at the opening of the seventh of seven seals, the sounding of the seventh of seven trumpets, and the pouring out of the seventh of seven bowls of God’s wrath (7, 7, 7)????

If that’s true, then it means that in each case, this judgment is symbolized by “noises, thunderings, lightnings and an earthquake, with the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl of wrath adding another symbol of judgment, namely, hail – see Exo.9: 18.

Christ’s judgment of the world recorded in 7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath??


Rosh Hashanah is on the first day of the seventh month of the Biblical calendar.

ananias

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 11:32 AM
The markets were down 7% but 6 is the number of man not 7. God often places the number 7 on the things that belong to him but this one belongs to the failings of men.

todd

=====================

But 777 represents God's judgment of "the (Gentile) nations" - take a look at my previous post above this post.

ananias

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 11:35 AM
My beliefs about this currently world economy crisis. I believe when the world economy collapsed completely, then 666 world system will be set up to fix world economy crisis for the purpose of "buy" or "sell"(Rev. 13:16-17), by make new law(Dan. 7:25) to force everyone be required to have the mark as "I.D." before they can buy or sell things. I believe this currently world economy crisis are heading toward collapse right now, as the 666 world system is coming next. It would not be longer. Everything all will be change immediately. We better be prepare for it, and be strong faith in Christ, deny the 666 world system, look up at Jesus, willing die for Jesus.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

I think you may be right.

ananias

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 11:47 AM
The day of the announcement of AIG's economic woes, the gold price rose to 777 US dollars per ounce (I live in South Africa, a big gold-mining country, and I noticed it when it happened). I thought, "Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of the U.S dollar as a world-based currency?

Yesterday's 777 fall took place on the Eve of the Day of Trumpets - anyone who understand the spiritual meaning of Rosh Hashanah won't overlook that - one wonders what time it was in Jerusalem when the stock market fall by 777 points was taking place in New York - was it at nightfall in Jerusalem when all the trumpets were being blown on Rosh Hashanah?

1 Seven and completeness:

The Hebrew word SHABA (Strong’s #H7650) means “to be COMPLETE”. It’s the root-word for shabat (H7676) and shib ‛ah (SEVEN – H7651).

The seventh day completes the cycle, and the “eighth” day begins a new cycle (excuse me for stating the obvious!)

Sabbath day = seventh day. Sabbath year = seventh year. The 8th year marks a new beginning (Leviticus chapter 23).

7 x 7 Sabbath-years completes another cycle, and the fiftieth year (the year of Jubilee) marks the beginning of a new cycle (according to some Rabbis, but not according to others).

The same goes for the Day of Pentecost (Pente = 50), which marks a new beginning; because it comes the day after the completion of 7 x 7 days counting from the day after Passover, the day our Lord was crucified.

The Bible opens with a pattern of seven and closes with a book which is saturated with sevens and cycles of seven.

2 Seven and judgment:

The first eight chapters of the book of Genesis follow the first eight perfectly natural divisions of the book; and it is in the SEVENTH division (chapter) of Genesis that we read about God’s judgment for the sins of the world coming upon the world in the form of the flood - the eighth chapter speaks of a new beginning – the ark resting on Mount Ararat, etc. Is this a coincidence? No – and we’ll see why in a moment:

The flood began to be poured out upon the world in the seventh of seven days after Noah had entered the ark (Gen.5: 31; Gen.7: 1-10); and Noah’s father, Lamech (who represents the last generation to have died before the flood) was 777 years old when he died.

Much later on, we read that after the Israelites had marched around the city of Jericho for seven days with seven priests blowing seven trumpets (7,7,7), the city was judged by God at the hand of the Israelites on the seventh day, the seventh time the Israelites had marched around the city, at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (7,7,7 – Joshua 6: 2-5).

And in the same way that in the first book of the Old Testament, we read about God’s judgment for the world’s sins in the SEVENTH chapter and a new beginning in the EIGHTH chapter, so in the first book of the New Testament, the record of God’s judgment for the sins of the world falling upon our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (Isa.53: 6; 2Cor.5: 21) is recorded in the SEVENTH division of Matthew’s gospel, and the EIGHTH division of Matthew’s gospel is the record of a new beginning – His resurrection from the dead on the EIGHTH day.

In the book of Revelation, Jesus Christ (whose crucifixion is recorded in the seventh division of Matthew’s gospel and whose resurrection from the dead on the eighth day is recorded in the eighth division of Matthew’s gospel) is shown to judge the seventh “head” of a seven-headed “beast”…

… at the opening of the seventh of seven seals, the sounding of the seventh of seven trumpets, and the pouring out of the seventh of seven bowls of God’s wrath (7, 7, 7)????

If that’s true, then it means that in each case, this judgment is symbolized by “noises, thunderings, lightnings and an earthquake, with the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl of wrath adding another symbol of judgment, namely, hail – see Exo.9: 18.

Christ’s judgment of the world recorded in 7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath??


Rosh Hashanah is on the first day of the seventh month of the Biblical calendar.

ananias

Hi ananias! :)

Thanks for posting this! It's AMAZING how mathematical and orderly our Lord is!!! Time will tell if there is something to the 7's of yesterday, huh? Some may think it is silly to look for the signs, but we are told to "WATCH!!"

God bless!

Alyssa S
Sep 30th 2008, 12:04 PM
Can we please not make a mountain from a molehill over the pure coincidence of the "777" in the stock market today?

I bought a meal at Whataburger a few days ago that came to $7.77. Does that make it any more "blessed" than a Burger King meal that was $7.82?

I had a customer today that lived at 777 Pearl Oyster Drive in Fort Worth. How does that person have anymore supernatural connection than the guy next door 781 Pearl Oyster Drive?

But a few months ago I received a check that was exactly $666.00. Do you think I threw it in the trash? Heck no, I whistled a happy tune all the way to the bank with it.

We need to chill on seeing "signs" everywhere we turn.

And I had a bagel sandwich a few days ago that was $7.77.... but I didn't think it was a "sign." I hear what you are saying.... but LL, we are told to WATCH. The "7's" from the stock market, the bailout, and ESPECIALLY the beginning of the new 7 year Sabbatical cycle falling on the same day *could* be a coincidence.... BUT..... this is a little different than bagel sandwiches and street addresses. We're talking about the US and world economy and the "coincidence" of sevens which could be very significant to our whole world... your Whataburger and my Bagel aren't!! (Errr... at least I don't think!!) :lol:

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 12:10 PM
Well Luke,
if you do not want that check for $666, let me know, because I know exactly what to do with it. :spin:Already spent it, thank you very much. :D

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 12:18 PM
Hi ananias! :)

Thanks for posting this! It's AMAZING how mathematical and orderly our Lord is!!! Time will tell if there is something to the 7's of yesterday, huh? Some may think it is silly to look for the signs, but we are told to "WATCH!!"

God bless!

Yes.... time will tell. But there are lots of coincidences - today marks the first day of the final sabbath-year cycle - the first year of the final seven years of the current 49 year cycle. The 50th year (the year of Jubilee) starts on the Day of Atonement (Sept. 23rd, 2015). The Jubilee year represents the restoration of the world to God through His Christ:

"... whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been from of old." (Act 3:21).



UNCANNY COINCIDENCE OR NO COINCIDENCE AT ALL?

What follows is no joke, and no crazy speculation based on human imagination – just an honest summary of a group of facts which together form a phenomenon which some may regard as merely an uncanny, never-to-be-repeated coincidence, and others will regard as no coincidence at all.
For the first time ever, over a period of one and a half years in the years 2014-2015,each one of a series of 4 lunar and 2 solar eclipses will coincide with certain Biblical holy days (otherwise called “Jewish holidays”):-


Gregorian year Jewish year Holy day Eclipse

April 15, 2014 Nisan 15, 5774/ First day of Unleavened Bread/ Total Lunar
Oct. 08, 2014 Tishrei 14, 5775/ Eve of First day of Tabernacles/ Total Lunar

March 20, 2015 Adar 29, 5775/ Immediately precedes
Religious New Year/ Total Solar

April 04, 2015 Nisan 15, 5775/ First day of Unleavened Bread/ Total Lunar

Sept. 13, 2015 Elul 29, 5775/ Immediately precedes
Civil New Year/Partial Solar

Between Sept. 13, 2015 and Sept. 28, 2015 THE JUBILEE YEAR BEGINS ON Sept. 23, 2015 (Tishrei 10, 5776).

Sept. 28, 2015 Tishrei 15, 5776/ First day of
the Feast of Tabernacles/ Total Lunar

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.” (Joel 2: 31-32).

“And when He had opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.” (Revelation 6: 12).

According to the Jewish Mishna,the Jews were to regard FOUR different days of the Biblical calendar, as THE FIRST DAY OF A NEW YEAR.

These different calendar “years” overlapped one another, like wheels within wheels; and were INEXTRICABLY LINKED WITH:

(a) The agricultural cycle in the land of Israel, which was also linked with the annual cycle of “appointed times” (“the Feasts of the LORD”) (Leviticus 23: 2); and

(b) The seven-year sabbatical cycle (which we will speak more about in a little while); and

( c ) A seven-year Bible-reading cycle, where the whole Bible was read through once, over a period of seven years (today’s Jews use an annual Bible-reading cycle, where the Bible is read through once every year).

(d) The prophecies surrounding the coming of the Messiah, and the timing of His coming.




THE RELIGIOUS/SPIRITUAL MEANING OF “GOD’S APPOINTED TIMES”



TWO of the FOUR “New Year” days in the calendar God revealed to Moses on Mount Sinai, are extremely important - here's the final "New Year" in the Biblical caledar:




Month # 7 of the Biblical calendar: Tishrei


The first day of (the Biblical calendar month of) Tishrei is the civil New Year. It is the New Yearfor Jubilee years, and for the kings of the Gentiles (and their “kingdoms”).

The first day of Tishrei (also known as Rosh HaShanah) has also always been known as THE DAY OF TRUMPETS and the day of God’s judgment of the Gentile kings and their “kingdoms” (“the kingdoms of this world”). According to the Bible, they are (will be) judged at the hand of ISRAEL’S Messiah, ISRAEL’S KING –as can be seen from the following verse in the Bible:

“And the seventh angel sounded (his trumpet) (the sounding of the seventh trumpet in the book of Revelation). And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ. And He will reign forever and ever.” (Revelation 11: 15).

The Day of Trumpets is also seen as the day of the resurrection of (some of) the dead (in Hebrew this is the natzal) and their removal into heaven; and the above verse (Revelation 11: 15) is sandwiched between (on one hand) the verses describing the resurrection of the martyred witnesses of Jesus and their removal into heaven, and (on the other hand) the verses describing God’s judgment coming upon the world.

The Day of Trumpets begins the last 10 days of a 40-day penitential period for the Jews, culminating on the Day of Atonement on Tishrei 10. This is also the day any Jubilee year begins (if it IS a Jubilee year, since a Jubilee year only comes round once every 50 years, after the completion of a cycle of 7 x 7 years).

Four days later, the Feast of Tabernacles (booths) begins (at sunset on the evening of the Tishrei 14). On this day the Jews look backward and forward. They look backward to the time they dwelt in booths (tabernacles) in the wilderness, and forward to the time of THE MESSIAH’S KINGDOM – which will only come when He has come, and has judged the Gentile “kings” and their “kingdoms”on the Day of Trumpets(Rosh HaShanah).

The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) can only begin when the first slither of the new moon has been sighted. No man knows at exactly what hour the first slither of the new moon will be sighted, and Tishri 1 is also traditionally called “the hidden day which no man knoweth” (source: “The Seven Festivals of The Messiah”).

Jesus said,

“But of that day and hour (of the coming of the Messiah) knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24: 36).

In Biblical typology, 1 day may often be taken for 1 year (Ezekiel 4: 5-6).

In the days of Noah, the tiny redeemed family of mankind knew that God’s judgment of the world was coming, but they did not know exactly when it would come, UNTILseven days before:

“And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation… For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth… And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.” (Genesis 7: 1, 4, 10).

2015 is seven years from 2008. The phenomenon of the lunar and solar eclipses coinciding with “God’s appointed times” in the years 2014-2015 was only discovered in 2008.

I'm not setting this as the date of the beginning of the final seven years - I'm merely asking Christians to watch!

ananias

Gods Child
Sep 30th 2008, 12:20 PM
I'm glad someone else brought the Amero up. I was wondering why I hadn't heard anything about the Amero for a while.

The Amero and N.A.F.T.A. are step one . . .



This is where we are headed, ten world regions. Ten major Unions to create global economic stability and maintain peaceful relations. Once these ten are in place it is likely there will be a Union of Unions (The One World Government Structure).

Yes, and how long is one hour with the beast in God's time?

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If a thousand years is as one day with the Lord, then how long is One hour. Do we have a Mathematician on board?

Roelof
Sep 30th 2008, 01:05 PM
UNCANNY COINCIDENCE OR NO COINCIDENCE AT ALL?




What follows is no joke, and no crazy speculation based on human imagination – just an honest summary of a group of facts which together form a phenomenon which some may regard as merely an uncanny, never-to-be-repeated coincidence, and others will regard as no coincidence at all.


Ananias

I must congratulate you on a very good post.

On 6 June 2012 Venus will transit across the disk of the Sun, a rare event according to NASA. A total solar eclipse will happen on 13 Nov 2012. If the Final Tribulation starts in 2012, then 2014/15 might be the year of the Rapture, if you believe in a Mid-Trib Rapture.

My current view point is that the Final Tribulation will not be exactly 7 years long, but will be conditioned based and directed by our Creator.

I fully agree that 2014/15 will be a very special year. If it will be the Second Coming of Christ, with all the Feast Days, we will have to wait and see.

For me Hebrew 5777 = 2016 AD will also be a special year, beacuase 777 is associated with Divine Judgment. This could be the start of Armageddon. In this case Jesus can not return in 2014/15

2016 - The end of the current 28 year cycle will be 2016 AD, which will be 72 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born in assumed 1 AD. This is 144 of the 28 year cycles after Abram, the father of Israel was born.

2018 – this year is a full generation (70 years) after the creation of the state Israel in 1948. It will be marked with 3 partial solar eclipses and 2 total lunar eclipses.

2018 AD could be when everything will be over

Off cause this is only scenario's and only our Father in Heaven knows the truth and exact dates

We must pray, watch and be ready

IPet2_9
Sep 30th 2008, 01:23 PM
Actually, I'm going to say yes--the economic crisis IS a preliminary of the Tribulation. I don't say that with everything.

The reason is that the "bailout" is not warranted--it's blackmail. If you look at its root, the "bailout" is no less than the Federal seizure of our private markets. Basically it's the Federal government (and the foreign powers who control it) saying, "If you don't let us take over, we're going to screw your economy". And if you watch CNBC, the impact is global. That screams "Antichrist". Not everything does. But this does.

I could write more about the economics, but this post would get really long.

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 01:41 PM
Ananias

I must congratulate you on a very good post.

On 6 June 2012 Venus will transit across the disk of the Sun, a rare event according to NASA. A total solar eclipse will happen on 13 Nov 2012. If the Final Tribulation starts in 2012, then 2014/15 might be the year of the Rapture, if you believe in a Mid-Trib Rapture.

My current view point is that the Final Tribulation will not be exactly 7 years long, but will be conditioned based and directed by our Creator.

I fully agree that 2014/15 will be a very special year. If it will be the Second Coming of Christ, with all the Feast Days, we will have to wait and see.

For me Hebrew 5777 = 2016 AD will also be a special year, beacuase 777 is associated with Divine Judgment. This could be the start of Armageddon. In this case Jesus can not return in 2014/15

2016 - The end of the current 28 year cycle will be 2016 AD, which will be 72 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born in assumed 1 AD. This is 144 of the 28 year cycles after Abram, the father of Israel was born.

2018 – this year is a full generation (70 years) after the creation of the state Israel in 1948. It will be marked with 3 partial solar eclipses and 2 total lunar eclipses.

2018 AD could be when everything will be over

Off cause this is only scenario's and only our Father in Heaven knows the truth and exact dates

We must pray, watch and be ready

Yes, and ever since I read your thread I've been watching both 2015 and 2016 - or to put it another way, I'll be watching Sept. 30, 2008 to Oct. 5, 2017 (the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles in 2017).

And if we pass those dates and nothing has happened, then I'll sit back and watch while everyone laughs at me!!! ;)

ananias

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 01:44 PM
Actually, I'm going to say yes--the economic crisis IS a preliminary of the Tribulation. I don't say that with everything.

The reason is that the "bailout" is not warranted--it's blackmail. If you look at its root, the "bailout" is no less than the Federal seizure of our private markets. Basically it's the Federal government (and the foreign powers who control it) saying, "If you don't let us take over, we're going to screw your economy". And if you watch CNBC, the impact is global. That screams "Antichrist". Not everything does. But this does.

I could write more about the economics, but this post would get really long.

Nevertheless, some of us will want to hear what you have to say about this.

ananias

SpokenFor
Sep 30th 2008, 02:07 PM
Yesterday's 777 fall took place on the Eve of the Day of Trumpets - anyone who understand the spiritual meaning of Rosh Hashanah won't overlook that - one wonders what time it was in Jerusalem when the stock market fall by 777 points was taking place in New York - was it at nightfall in Jerusalem when all the trumpets were being blown on Rosh Hashanah?





That would have been a cool "coincidence", but from my calculations, sunset in Jerusalem yesterday would have been at 11:25am in NYC and the Dow didn't hit the 777 jump until mid afternoon in NYC.

I'm still with ya on everything else, though.:D

SpokenFor
Sep 30th 2008, 02:21 PM
Nevertheless, some of us will want to hear what you have to say about this.

ananias

:agree:


(also interested in your thoughts on the fact that the bailout did NOT go through yesterday)

wombat
Sep 30th 2008, 02:22 PM
That would have been a cool "coincidence", but from my calculations, sunset in Jerusalem yesterday would have been at 11:25am in NYC and the Dow didn't hit the 777 jump until mid afternoon in NYC.

I'm still with ya on everything else, though.:D
Hi, SpokenFor! If sunset in Jerusalem was at 11:25 a.m.yesterday, was that the time they started Rosh Hashanah, or would it be sunset today when they start it? I get so incredibly mixed up when I think about days starting at sunset and whether they are behind one day or forward one day from our calendar. If the yesterday sunset indeed started Rosh Hashanah, then that places the 777 fall of the Dow square on the start of the Sabbath year.

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 02:32 PM
That would have been a cool "coincidence", but from my calculations, sunset in Jerusalem yesterday would have been at 11:25am in NYC and the Dow didn't hit the 777 jump until mid afternoon in NYC.

I'm still with ya on everything else, though.:D

Well that means that the 777 fall took place on Rosh Hashanah - since Rosh Hashanah began at 11:25am New York time yesterday and lasts until 11:25am New York time on Sept 30, 2008 - that's TODAY!!!

(Rosh Hashanah is from everning to evening)

ananias

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 02:36 PM
Hi, SpokenFor! If sunset in Jerusalem was at 11:25 a.m.yesterday, was that the time they started Rosh Hashanah, or would it be sunset today when they start it? I get so incredibly mixed up when I think about days starting at sunset and whether they are behind one day or forward one day from our calendar. If the yesterday sunset indeed started Rosh Hashanah, then that places the 777 fall of the Dow square on the start of the Sabbath year.

Thanks, Wombat. Yes - Rosh Hashanah began at 11: 25 am New York time on 29Sept, 2008.

ananias

Romulus
Sep 30th 2008, 02:46 PM
I don't believe there is any scripture stating a 7 year tribulation. There is scripture stating a time of trouble for Christians and tribulation against Jerusalem.

Time of trouble for Christians

Daniel 7

24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.(3.5 years)


Matthew 24

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

This historically was fulfilled during the Neronic persecution. Nero began his persecution of Christians from 64 A.D. till his suicide in 67 A.D. The time period was 3.5 years or 42 months. It was during this time that Christians were tortured in the most horrible ways including being burned alive and hung up to light Nero's dinner party's. A Christian brought before Nero simply had to deny being a Christian and they were let go. Many did, but others bravely faced death rather then deny Jesus Christ as their Lord. Also, along with Rome the greatest persecuters of 1st century believers was 1st century Israel. They are noted in Matthew 23

Matthew 23

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Nontheless, there is scripture stating a separate 3.5/42 month period of tribulation for Jerusalem.

Matthew 24

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— [B]16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

Revelation 11

2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

If we say true to the audience of Jesus(contemporaries) then we can easily see the fulfillment. The tribulation against Jerusalem as stated in the warning to Judea when they see the "abomination that causes desolation" to flee to the mountains occurred according to Luke 21 which is the same event, written to a gentile audience rather then Matthew's audience of Jews as "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies". This occurred in 66 A.D. when Titus surrounded Jerusalem and then left for no reason. This gave the believers in Christ's warning to flee to the mountains of Pella. Titus returned in February of 67 A.D. and began the 3.5 year/42 month siege against Jerusalem, ending in the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem on August 30/31 70 A.D.

The tribulation I beleive to be a past event. It fits accurately with Christ's statement that "this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. A biblical generation is 40 years. Jesus spoke this around 30 A.D. and it was fufilled within a generation in 70 A.D.

The current economic problems I don't believe to be about the Great Tribulation but rather a judgment on America. Jesus is on the throne and the cries of 4000 children everyday reaches His ears. This nation is under the judgment of God for the murder of abortion. Even the Church today has made the economy the number 1 issue in their minds while the cry of babies is thrown into the background. Is this not greed at it's worst when a nation is more concerned with their own welfare while the cries of children go unheard, even in the minds of Christians. Why as the Church do we overlook the cry of the innocent for the price of a gallon of gas? or the amount of money that will be on our social security checks, or even for tax breaks and basically more money for ME!!!!!! rather then to listen to the cries of children who only want to live?

Forget the economy, God is in control of that. Pray for the end to abortion in this nation, and support efforts of those that understand what this is. Would God in His love, if you were in the womb right now ever turn away from you as the knife comes closer to ending your life? Would He ever put you by the side in favor of social issues such as gas, and healthcare? Never, He loves you more then life itself. He gave His Son so that we may live. Would God then forget HIs little ones who are in the womb right now? The loudest prayer to God is the cry of children. Until those cries cease this nation will not recover.

Pray for the unborn. Blessings!

mfowler12
Sep 30th 2008, 03:50 PM
The current economic problems I don't believe to be about the Great Tribulation but rather a judgment on America. Jesus is on the throne and the cries of 4000 children everyday reaches His ears. This nation is under the judgment of God for the murder of abortion. Even the Church today has made the economy the number 1 issue in their minds while the cry of babies is thrown into the background. Is this not greed at it's worst when a nation is more concerned with their own welfare while the cries of children go unheard, even in the minds of Christians. Why as the Church do we overlook the cry of the innocent for the price of a gallon of gas? or the amount of money that will be on our social security checks, or even for tax breaks and basically more money for ME!!!!!! rather then to listen to the cries of children who only want to live?

Forget the economy, God is in control of that. Pray for the end to abortion in this nation, and support efforts of those that understand what this is. Would God in His love, if you were in the womb right now ever turn away from you as the knife comes closer to ending your life? Would He ever put you by the side in favor of social issues such as gas, and healthcare? Never, He loves you more then life itself. He gave His Son so that we may live. Would God then forget HIs little ones who are in the womb right now? The loudest prayer to God is the cry of children. Until those cries cease this nation will not recover.

Pray for the unborn. Blessings!


So, if all of this has passed, what are we waiting for?

Romulus
Sep 30th 2008, 04:20 PM
So, if all of this has passed, what are we waiting for?

This is minority opinion, but the eventual bowing of all nations to Christ. This is accomplished through the Church spreading the Gospel and living out what the Word of God says. Will it take a while, yes but I believe we are not at the end of Christianity, but the beginning.

Anyhow, if we as the Church pray for the end to abortion in this land, and stand up in unity against the greatest holocaust in history and not put this issue as unimportant as compared with the numerous social issues in turmoil today, I believe God will again bless our nation.

It is time for us to stop saying "God bless America" but rather.....

America, bless God.

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 04:54 PM
This is minority opinion, but the eventual bowing of all nations to Christ. This is accomplished through the Church spreading the Gospel and living out what the Word of God says. Will it take a while, yes but I believe we are not at the end of Christianity, but the beginning.

Anyhow, if we as the Church pray for the end to abortion in this land, and stand up in unity against the greatest holocaust in history and not put this issue as unimportant as compared with the numerous social issues in turmoil today, I believe God will again bless our nation.

It is time for us to stop saying "God bless America" but rather.....

America, bless God.

Well, it must feel awful being in the minority so I don't want to bully you! But IMO, Christians will never, ever get the nations to bow to Christ - only Jesus HIMSELF can do that. Christians have had over 1,900 years to get the nations to bow to Christ - but they won't:

"... And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come." (Mat 24:14)

"... Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake." (Mat 24:9)




The current economic problems I don't believe to be about the Great Tribulation but rather a judgment on America. Jesus is on the throne and the cries of 4000 children everyday reaches His ears.

I believe that when America's economy begins to fall, the economies of the nations begin to fall. So when America begins to be judged, the world begins to be judged.

ananias

Roelof
Sep 30th 2008, 05:27 PM
Yes, and ever since I read your thread I've been watching both 2015 and 2016 - or to put it another way, I'll be watching Sept. 30, 2008 to Oct. 5, 2017 (the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles in 2017).

And if we pass those dates and nothing has happened, then I'll sit back and watch while everyone laughs at me!!! ;)

ananias

ananias

I am quite sure you, me and many others will not be here, we would have been raptured ;););)

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 05:39 PM
Sept.23rd 2015 could possible be the return of Jesus!It is the atonement and the restoration of God through Christ!

If that would be true,then -7 years from that day and you get sept.23rd 2008...



Not exactly - because we have to stick to the Biblical calendar - and seven years before Sept.23, 2015 is TODAY Rosh Hashanah, Sept.30, 2008.

Shalom,

ananias

Kahtar
Sep 30th 2008, 05:56 PM
Does anyone happen to know if the new moon has been sighted yet? Did they see it in Israel last night?

Romulus
Sep 30th 2008, 06:07 PM
Well, it must feel awful being in the minority so I don't want to bully you! But IMO, Christians will never, ever get the nations to bow to Christ - only Jesus HIMSELF can do that. Christians have had over 1,900 years to get the nations to bow to Christ - but they won't:


Well I agree that Christians will not get the nations to bow before Christ but the Gospel will. It will also take for all God's people to be a living example of the love of Christ and to stand unashamed of who we know and to proclaim what is right in His eyes. We are honestly not doing that yet since we all are fighting with each other. Unity together to proclaim by word and example is what will change this nation. God is looking at us, remember the great commission?

Matthew 28

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=28&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-24212a)] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Jesus did not say individuals but nations. He expects nations to become disciples of His, not just people here and there. The question is the Gospel powerful enough to convert the world?



"... And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come." (Mat 24:14)


This scripture was fulfilled. Here it is:

Colossians 1

22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Romans 1

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Romans 16

25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:




"... Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake." (Mat 24:9)


This already happened back in the 1st century. The entire New Testament is all about the persecution the 1st century believers went through with Israel and Rome. Also, in Matthew 23 Jesus states that Israel would be judged for her actions:

Matthew 23

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

This was the prelude to Matthew 24 which is what it was all about, the fall of the temple. This is not a future persecution since this was a 1st century persecution. Israel today is not guilty of the blood of the saints. Rejection of God's Son, yes. Blood of the saints, no.



I believe that when America's economy begins to fall, the economies of the nations begin to fall. So when America begins to be judged, the world begins to be judged.

ananias


I agree! :)

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 06:13 PM
Does anyone happen to know if the new moon has been sighted yet? Did they see it in Israel last night?

VERY, VERY valid question - because if the new moon hasn't been sighted yet it means Rosh Hashanah hasn't begun yet - am I right, Kahtar?

ananias

Kahtar
Sep 30th 2008, 06:16 PM
VERY, VERY valid question - because if the new moon hasn't been sighted yet it means Rosh Hashanah hasn't begun yet - am I right, Kahtar?

ananias

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell. And, since no man knows the day nor the hour that the first sliver of moon appears on the western horizen after sundown, we cannot go entirely by the calendar, nor even the computerized calculations.

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 06:45 PM
Well I agree that Christians will not get the nations to bow before Christ but the Gospel will. It will also take for all God's people to be a living example of the love of Christ and to stand unashamed of who we know and to proclaim what is right in His eyes. We are honestly not doing that yet since we all are fighting with each other. Unity together to proclaim by word and example is what will change this nation. God is looking at us, remember the great commission?

Unity at what cost, Romulus? At the cost of the true gospel? Churches/denominations won't forfeit their own false doctrines - and I for one won't stand in unity with churches and denominations which teach false doctrine. Unity requires ecumenicism. Ecumenicism requires ignoring doctrine - even fundamental doctrine. In over 1,900 years, Christians haven't been capable of standing united - and often this is for a very good reason.




Matthew 28

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=28&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-24212a)] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Jesus did not say individuals but nations. He expects nations to become disciples of His, not just people here and there. The question is the Gospel powerful enough to convert the world?

Nations are made up of individuals. Nations have never become Christian in the last 1,900 years - only individuals within nations. It's a fallacy to speak of a "Christian" nation. "make disciples of all nations" refers to going to every nation under the sun and making disciples in those nations - a church in each nation which consists ONLY of those who are willing to hear and to turn.




This scripture was fulfilled. Here it is:

Colossians 1

22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Romans 1

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Romans 16

25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



Again, this refers to individuals within nations when the gospel is preached to all nations.




This already happened back in the 1st century. The entire New Testament is all about the persecution the 1st century believers went through with Israel and Rome.

I disagree - it's a matter of interpretation. IMO (and I don't stand alone in my opinion about this) Mat.24: 9-14 has nothing to do with the 1st century. This has been debated in other threads, so I don't want to debate it again in this one (I hope you're O.K with that - it's just that I'd have to repeat my arguments against your statement here all over again here in this thread :B ) :) :

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=141112

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=140538




Also, in Matthew 23 Jesus states that Israel would be judged for her actions:

Matthew 23

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

This was the prelude to Matthew 24 which is what it was all about, the fall of the temple. This is not a future persecution since this was a 1st century persecution. Israel today is not guilty of the blood of the saints. Rejection of God's Son, yes. Blood of the saints, no.



Once again, my arguments to show why I disagree with that are in the two threads in the links above.

The gospel (if it's preached in the power of the holy Spirit) does have the power to convert the nations - but it's neither the failure of Christians nor of the gospel that causes people who will not hear and turn, to harden their hearts. Only the return of Christ will make them want to turn away from their rebellion against God in order to escape God's wrath - but then it will be too late for those who would not hear and turn.

God bless, (actually you may not be that much in the minority regarding your viewpoints here at BibleForums - except perhaps about Christians getting the nations to bow down to Christ).

ananias

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 06:51 PM
That's pretty much it, in a nutshell. And, since no man knows the day nor the hour that the first sliver of moon appears on the western horizen after sundown, we cannot go entirely by the calendar, nor even the computerized calculations.

Please send me a PM if you notice someone answering that question, in case I miss it, will ya?

ananias

Kahtar
Sep 30th 2008, 07:39 PM
Please send me a PM if you notice someone answering that question, in case I miss it, will ya?

ananias

Will do....................

Romulus
Sep 30th 2008, 07:51 PM
Unity at what cost, Romulus? At the cost of the true gospel? Churches/denominations won't forfeit their own false doctrines - and I for one won't stand in unity with churches and denominations which teach false doctrine. Unity requires ecumenicism. Ecumenicism requires ignoring doctrine - even fundamental doctrine. In over 1,900 years, Christians haven't been capable of standing united - and often this is for a very good reason.


Who says at the cost of the Gospel? Does God see denominations? God only sees what we did concerning His Son. There are no denominations in God's Kingdom, only those in Christ, and those not in Christ.

I believe this includes Protestants, Catholic, and Orthodox believers. If you honestly find the perfect Church, don;t go there......You will ruin it.........:lol:. Anyhow all Churches are not perfect. We must stand with other believers against the enemy.



Nations are made up of individuals. Nations have never become Christian in the last 1,900 years - only individuals within nations. It's a fallacy to speak of a "Christian" nation. "make disciples of all nations" refers to going to every nation under the sun and making disciples in those nations - a church in each nation which consists ONLY of those who are willing to hear and to turn.


Well after the 1st century within time all of Europe was Christian. Was not our country founded upon Christianity? Does not our constitution include God? Was not there a time when Christianity was the dominant religion in the world?




Again, this refers to individuals within nations when the gospel is preached to all nations.



The scripture from Collossians 1 never uses the word "when". Paul said

This Gospel which has been preached to every creature under heaven.

There is nothing grammatical to suggest anything other then that every creature was preached the Gospel. Check with any scholar. Even so if Paul meant something else, he would have said so. Paul meant what he said.



I disagree - it's a matter of interpretation. IMO (and I don't stand alone in my opinion about this) Mat.24: 9-14 has nothing to do with the 1st century. This has been debated in other threads, so I don't want to debate it again in this one (I hope you're O.K with that - it's just that I'd have to repeat my arguments against your statement here all over again here in this thread :B ) :) :

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=141112

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=140538



Once again, my arguments to show why I disagree with that are in the two threads in the links above.


We then simply disagree. ;)


The gospel (if it's preached in the power of the holy Spirit) does have the power to convert the nations - but it's neither the failure of Christians nor of the gospel that causes people who will not hear and turn, to harden their hearts.

What is wrong with the Gospel then? Why is it not working. It is not converting the nations because that already inhabiting the kingdom are fighting with each other and more importantly not living out what we preach. Is not the world supposed to be jealous of who we know and long for the love that has been shown us? We do not live out the Gospel. As soon as the Church get's it act together then we can become the example we are supposed to be.




Only the return of Christ will make them want to turn away from their rebellion against God in order to escape God's wrath - but then it will be too late for those who would not hear and turn.


If the return of Christ is the requirement to bring peace then it is done by force, the destruction of creation and the renewal of the earth. Is this not the same sin that Israel was guilty of the 1st century? Israel believed the Messiah would come and establish His throne in Jerusalem and destroy Rome and rule the earth with them. They were wrong. Christ came not as a King but as a child and more importantly died for humanity. That was not the King they were looking for. They were looking for a physical kingdom and the destruction of their enemies. Jesus Himself said:

Luke 17

20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=17&verse=20&end_verse=22&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-25665a)] you."

If the Kingdom of God is within us through the work of Christ, and not something we can physically see, then the Kingdom is spread through the receiving of the Gospel. As each person receives Jesus the Kingdom of God comes among them. It is spread not by force but by the power of the Gospel. The Kingdom was in Christ's own words not a physical kingdom. It is spread by the livng our of those that already inhabit it, us!



God bless, (actually you may not be that much in the minority regarding your viewpoints here at BibleForums - except perhaps about Christians getting the nations to bow down to Christ).

ananias


God Bless! :)

ananias
Sep 30th 2008, 08:45 PM
Who says at the cost of the Gospel? Does God see denominations? God only sees what we did concerning His Son. There are no denominations in God's Kingdom, only those in Christ, and those not in Christ.

I believe this includes Protestants, Catholic, and Orthodox believers. If you honestly find the perfect Church, don;t go there......You will ruin it.........:lol:. Anyhow all Churches are not perfect. We must stand with other believers against the enemy.

I agree - yeah, about all the above - I'll ruin it, alright :blush:

But the "real Christians" are not the only "Christians" in the world - lots of people say they're "Christian". How do the unsaved know the difference?




Well after the 1st century within time all of Europe was Christian.

Really? Each and every European and Brit was Christian? Wow!




Was not our country founded upon Christianity?

No. I'm South African :spin:

Anyway, that statement is highly debatable - Christianity, or a farce, a mixture of religions - highly influenced by Free Masonry and Roman Catholicism?




Does not our constitution include God?

Your constitution has certainly always paid lip-service to God, and then time and time again America has allowed and encouraged lots of things that God hates - kind of like the Israel of Jeremiah's time.

(Sorry, but I do think that's closer to the truth about that statement).

I'm not singling out the U.S.A here - other countries have done even worse - the Apartheid South African government also paid lip-service to God and claimed to be Christian.




Was not there a time when Christianity was the dominant religion in the world?

Christianity has not dominated the world from the time of Christ until now - Christ has been Lord of individuals in the world who have submitted to Him and who submit to Him today - but "Christianity" has never dominated the world.




The scripture from Collossians 1 never uses the word "when". Paul said

This Gospel which has been preached to every creature under heaven.

There is nothing grammatical to suggest anything other then that every creature was preached the Gospel. Check with any scholar. Even so if Paul meant something else, he would have said so. Paul meant what he said.


That's also debatable - Paul may have truly believed the gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven before he reached the time of his departure - but whether or not it actually had, is highly debatable.




What is wrong with the Gospel then?



IMHO, you're asking the wrong question. You should be asking, "What is wrong with fallen mankind that his heart is so hard that he cannot or will not hear, repent and be saved?

Have you never personally shared the gospel with someone who would not accept it, who seemed to be unable to hear it?

Is it my fault and your fault and the fault of every other poor, struggling Christian?

Believe me, Romulus, if most of the Jews (and most of those Gentiles who heard CHRIST) couldn't accept CHRIST THEN, then not even if every single Christian was as absolutely perfect every single minute of the day as what CHRIST was, will they hear, repent and be saved.

WHETHER OR NOT THE GOSPEL WILL SAVE AN INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE "PERFECTION" OR "RIGHTEOUSNESS" OF YOU AND I AND EVERY OTHER CHRISTIAN, OR ON OUR UNITY - IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER OR NOT CHRIST'S BLOOD WAS SUFFICIENT TO SAVE, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE HEARER WILL HEED THE CALL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO CONVICTS HIM/HER.




Why is it not working. It is not converting the nations because that already inhabiting the kingdom are fighting with each other and more importantly not living out what we preach. Is not the world supposed to be jealous of who we know and long for the love that has been shown us? We do not live out the Gospel. As soon as the Church get's it act together then we can become the example we are supposed to be.



No. For the reasons I quoted above.




If the return of Christ is the requirement to bring peace then it is done by force



That's right:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And the four and twenty elders, who sit before God on their thrones, fell upon their faces and worshipped God, saying,

We give thee thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who art and who wast; because thou hast taken thy great power, and didst reign...And the nations were wroth, and thy wrath came, and the time of the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name, the small and the great; and to destroy them that destroy the earth. And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Rev 11:15-19)




Luke 17

20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=17&verse=20&end_verse=22&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-25665a)] you."

If the Kingdom of God is within us through the work of Christ, and not something we can physically see, then the Kingdom is spread through the receiving of the Gospel. As each person receives Jesus the Kingdom of God comes among them. It is spread not by force but by the power of the Gospel. The Kingdom was in Christ's own words not a physical kingdom. It is spread by the livng our of those that already inhabit it, us!



That's right - until He comes back again and fulfills the prophecies surrounding His return.

God bless,

ananias :)

PS. I gotta turn into bed soon - so if you reply to my post now - I might not reply again.

Saved7
Sep 30th 2008, 11:17 PM
Can we please not make a mountain from a molehill over the pure coincidence of the "777" in the stock market today?

I bought a meal at Whataburger a few days ago that came to $7.77. Does that make it any more "blessed" than a Burger King meal that was $7.82?

I had a customer today that lived at 777 Pearl Oyster Drive in Fort Worth. How does that person have anymore supernatural connection than the guy next door 781 Pearl Oyster Drive?

But a few months ago I received a check that was exactly $666.00. Do you think I threw it in the trash? Heck no, I whistled a happy tune all the way to the bank with it.

We need to chill on seeing "signs" everywhere we turn.

Amen!!!:)..........

DigReal
Sep 30th 2008, 11:55 PM
Ananias, Roelof, and all other interested parties.

Okay, I've seen those listings of astronomical events before, and realize the potential significance of the dates they fall on. And I must say, sure is intriguing! But I also have to ask this: where on the face of the earth do these events appear? I mean, eclipses appear in differing totality depending on where on the earth the viewer is at the time. A total eclipse seen in Europe might not been seen at all in S. America, for example.

I tried googling this stuff, and found some interesting sites, but have to admit I didn't always understand the charts and graphs they post.

Here's what I'm getting at. If a blood moon occurs on a significant Jewish holiday, but is only visible from the north Atlantic ocean... or the arctic... does it mean anything if all the Jews are in Israel? (Kinda like the question: if a tree falls in the forest, but no one is around to hear it, did it make a sound?)

Seems like there should be something to this, but I can't figure out what. :hmm:

Roelof
Oct 1st 2008, 03:41 AM
I was just about to post the same thing!

The Dow today is down 777
The Bail-Out is 700 Billion
Today at sunset was the beginning of the 7 year Sabbatical Cycle.

"7" is the number for completion and EXTREMELY significant throughout Scripture.



Guys

I know the crisis in the US is highly exciting, as the possible world-wide economic depression.

But 2008 is TOO EARLY for the Final Tribulation
Not everything is in place yet!!!
The Ten Regions are not completed yet.
The One World Government is not completed

I agree, we live in the Last Days and the most exciting times since the First Coming of Christ :pp:pp

Alyssa S
Oct 1st 2008, 03:08 PM
Guys

I know the crisis in the US is highly exciting, as the possible world-wide economic depression.

But 2008 is TOO EARLY for the Final Tribulation
Not everything is in place yet!!!
The Ten Regions are not completed yet.
The One World Government is not completed

I agree, we live in the Last Days and the most exciting times since the First Coming of Christ :pp:pp

Thanks Roelof!!

I am brand new to the Eschatology study and know very, very little. So for me, it's kind of like a brand new baby Christian who is so excited about any little tiny small thing....all full of joy and anticipation.

This is a new journey for me... so I hope all of those (not you Roelof) who are poking fun and are antagonistic to those of us who are "watching" would offer a bit more grace and patience.

We should all be watching and anticipating and living on the edge of our seats as IF it WERE our last day!!!

God bless,
Alyssa

moonglow
Oct 1st 2008, 03:22 PM
Thanks Roelof!!

I am brand new to the Eschatology study and know very, very little. So for me, it's kind of like a brand new baby Christian who is so excited about any little tiny small thing....all full of joy and anticipation.

This is a new journey for me... so I hope all of those (not you Roelof) who are poking fun and are antagonistic to those of us who are "watching" would offer a bit more grace and patience.

We should all be watching and anticipating and living on the edge of our seats as IF it WERE our last day!!!

God bless,
Alyssa

Alyssa...I wouldn't be excited in any sense of the word about the tribulation starting... I think you need to read up on what all that entails...from that end time point of view it means when the tribulation starts it will be a horrific, awful, terrible time for us Christians...

Since you are new to all of this..please do take the time to study some other end times views and do alot of praying about it. Most of us agree our end time views have nothing to do with our salvation so our salvation isn't based on being right on this. All of us share the same core beliefs...that Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins...rose on the third day, sits on the right hand side of God and one day will return....other then that, our views can vary greatly on many things in the bible including what our end time views are.

Anyway I know this is off topic from the topic...I just wanted to inform you since you are new to the end time studies there are many views on it. I am glad you are here. :)

God bless

SpokenFor
Oct 1st 2008, 03:43 PM
Thanks Roelof!!

We should all be watching and anticipating and living on the edge of our seats as IF it WERE our last day!!!




Absolutely!! After all, we are talking about the return of the very Object of Our Affection. Our bridegroom. The Author and Finisher of Our Faith. The King in ALL His Glory! Of course I'm going to look for his coming - even knowing the hard part that comes first.


When you are pregnant, you look with anticipation to the birth of your child. You don't know when exactly he will arrive, but you have some clues, based on information the doctor gives you, what you have read about pregnancy, as well as what you sense in yourself.

As the time draws closer, you begin to feel contractions every so often. Each time you stop and ask yourself, "is this it? Am I going to have this baby today?" But then the pain eases up and you realize that they were just Braxton Hicks contractions. While you may be disappointed that it isn't "time" yet, you know that the Braxton Hicks are bringing you closer to going into actual labor. They prepare your body both physically and mentally.

On the day you truly go into labor, you may still not be sure if the contractions are "it" for a while. You may be better able to judge if you have been paying attention to your body and doing lots of reading about labor. The contractions start out fairly easy, but get harder, and stronger, and longer, until you absolutely know you are in labor. Now, at that point that you absolutely know, you may only be 2 or 3cm dialated...that means 7 or 8cm to go! Do you turn back at that point and say, "forget it, I don't want this baby anymore!"? No..you still look forward to seeing this one that you already have grown to know and love.

Things get tough, but you persevere. This perseverance prepares you for motherhood. Others may tell you to give up and get the epidural to make yourself numb. Your husband may fall asleep when labor is long. But you know that the end is worth it. And it is. The labor that you go through is forceful, hard, messy and with much risk. But in the end you wouldn't trade what you now have for the world.



(no offense to any mamas on this board who had an epidural..just trying to explain the similarities between real labor and the "birth pangs" of the end times).

Kahtar
Oct 1st 2008, 04:10 PM
You forgot the part about telling your husband all this is HIS fault..........
:D

Alyssa S
Oct 1st 2008, 04:45 PM
Alyssa...I wouldn't be excited in any sense of the word about the tribulation starting... I think you need to read up on what all that entails...from that end time point of view it means when the tribulation starts it will be a horrific, awful, terrible time for us Christians...

Since you are new to all of this..please do take the time to study some other end times views and do alot of praying about it. Most of us agree our end time views have nothing to do with our salvation so our salvation isn't based on being right on this. All of us share the same core beliefs...that Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins...rose on the third day, sits on the right hand side of God and one day will return....other then that, our views can vary greatly on many things in the bible including what our end time views are.

Anyway I know this is off topic from the topic...I just wanted to inform you since you are new to the end time studies there are many views on it. I am glad you are here. :)

God bless

Hi Moonglow... Thanks for your post.

Maybe I need to clarify my position. I am fully aware of what the end times entails, though I am not clear as to all of the symbolism of Revelation and Daniel and the exact meaning of the difficult texts that so many are divided over (this is what is new for me). I am a post tribber, and I realize that life in those last days will be the most horrific time this earth has ever seen. I am clear about all of the suffering and persecution that lies ahead if I live to witness that day.

I would agree AND disagree with you. Do I look forward to going through the Tribulation? OF COURSE NOT!! No way!! BUT....My focus is on the Kingdom and on the King. My focus is on my reward that is coming from heaven! My focus is my redemption and a "better resurrection" if I AM a martyr for Christ. And THAT is what I am excited about!!! I consider myself blessed to live in these possible very last days.... though I know there is most likely going to be a very huge traumatic price to pay.

Is it worth it? Ahhh... it's so easy to say it is right now as I am in the comfort of my own home, fed, secure, free, at peace, and full of joy. But I would have to still say that it WILL be worth it because of what awaits me in the Kingdom. I have to make a conscious choice not to focus on the STORM... but to keep my eyes on the LORD. So still.... I say.... I am filled with awe and anticipation as we enter these *possible* last days. If I focus on the tribulation and all it entails... I will lose my marbles. So I won't do that.....

"My sould finds rest in God alone!!" Psalm 62:1

Thanks for the welcoming. :)

God bless you,
Alyssa

Alyssa S
Oct 1st 2008, 04:46 PM
Absolutely!! After all, we are talking about the return of the very Object of Our Affection. Our bridegroom. The Author and Finisher of Our Faith. The King in ALL His Glory! Of course I'm going to look for his coming - even knowing the hard part that comes first.


When you are pregnant, you look with anticipation to the birth of your child. You don't know when exactly he will arrive, but you have some clues, based on information the doctor gives you, what you have read about pregnancy, as well as what you sense in yourself.

As the time draws closer, you begin to feel contractions every so often. Each time you stop and ask yourself, "is this it? Am I going to have this baby today?" But then the pain eases up and you realize that they were just Braxton Hicks contractions. While you may be disappointed that it isn't "time" yet, you know that the Braxton Hicks are bringing you closer to going into actual labor. They prepare your body both physically and mentally.

On the day you truly go into labor, you may still not be sure if the contractions are "it" for a while. You may be better able to judge if you have been paying attention to your body and doing lots of reading about labor. The contractions start out fairly easy, but get harder, and stronger, and longer, until you absolutely know you are in labor. Now, at that point that you absolutely know, you may only be 2 or 3cm dialated...that means 7 or 8cm to go! Do you turn back at that point and say, "forget it, I don't want this baby anymore!"? No..you still look forward to seeing this one that you already have grown to know and love.

Things get tough, but you persevere. This perseverance prepares you for motherhood. Others may tell you to give up and get the epidural to make yourself numb. Your husband may fall asleep when labor is long. But you know that the end is worth it. And it is. The labor that you go through is forceful, hard, messy and with much risk. But in the end you wouldn't trade what you now have for the world.



(no offense to any mamas on this board who had an epidural..just trying to explain the similarities between real labor and the "birth pangs" of the end times).

Thank you for your post. Awww.... I like the analogy. :)

God bless you!
Alyssa

SpokenFor
Oct 1st 2008, 04:59 PM
You forgot the part about telling your husband all this is HIS fault..........
:D

Wasn't sure how that fit into the eschatology! :lol:

Kahtar
Oct 1st 2008, 05:43 PM
Wasn't sure how that fit into the eschatology! :lol:


:lol:Yes, well, it probably fits in there somewhere..........

Kahtar
Oct 1st 2008, 09:02 PM
Just a note: The new moon was sighted in Israel TODAY (October 2) at sundown. It is still Oct. 1 here in the US of course.

(This from Michael Rood................)

moonglow
Oct 1st 2008, 09:25 PM
Hi Moonglow... Thanks for your post.

Maybe I need to clarify my position. I am fully aware of what the end times entails, though I am not clear as to all of the symbolism of Revelation and Daniel and the exact meaning of the difficult texts that so many are divided over (this is what is new for me). I am a post tribber, and I realize that life in those last days will be the most horrific time this earth has ever seen. I am clear about all of the suffering and persecution that lies ahead if I live to witness that day.

I would agree AND disagree with you. Do I look forward to going through the Tribulation? OF COURSE NOT!! No way!! BUT....My focus is on the Kingdom and on the King. My focus is on my reward that is coming from heaven! My focus is my redemption and a "better resurrection" if I AM a martyr for Christ. And THAT is what I am excited about!!! I consider myself blessed to live in these possible very last days.... though I know there is most likely going to be a very huge traumatic price to pay.

Is it worth it? Ahhh... it's so easy to say it is right now as I am in the comfort of my own home, fed, secure, free, at peace, and full of joy. But I would have to still say that it WILL be worth it because of what awaits me in the Kingdom. I have to make a conscious choice not to focus on the STORM... but to keep my eyes on the LORD. So still.... I say.... I am filled with awe and anticipation as we enter these *possible* last days. If I focus on the tribulation and all it entails... I will lose my marbles. So I won't do that.....

"My sould finds rest in God alone!!" Psalm 62:1

Thanks for the welcoming. :)

God bless you,
Alyssa

Oh ok...sorry for the misunderstanding on my part!

May God lead you in your studies on this...:)

For you and anyone else interested...here is a live camera on the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Since their time is so different there, I have been able to see the sun rising there, when its close to my bedtime here.
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=215&ar=kotel_camera_2

Right now the only way to get this to work is to use your Internet Explorer and it will open on real play. There is sound though you may have to turn your speakers up higher then usual so you can hear their praying and sometimes music. On Friday at sundown to Saturday sundown they turn the cameras off out of respect for the Sabbath. Enjoy!

Edited to add...I forgot to say it seems someone is there at the Wailing Wall 24/7 literally. I am awake when it the middle of the night there and someone has always been there praying. They all are chanting prayers very loudly right now! I have also seen when they have their candle festivals and have tons of candles going. Right now someone is also blowing a horn as they sing...its really pretty neat.

God bless

Alyssa S
Oct 1st 2008, 09:49 PM
Oh ok...sorry for the misunderstanding on my part!

May God lead you in your studies on this...:)

For you and anyone else interested...here is a live camera on the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Since their time is so different there, I have been able to see the sun rising there, when its close to my bedtime here.
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=215&ar=kotel_camera_2

Right now the only way to get this to work is to use your Internet Explorer and it will open on real play. There is sound though you may have to turn your speakers up higher then usual so you can hear their praying and sometimes music. On Friday at sundown to Saturday sundown they turn the cameras off out of respect for the Sabbath. Enjoy!

Edited to add...I forgot to say it seems someone is there at the Wailing Wall 24/7 literally. I am awake when it the middle of the night there and someone has always been there praying. They all are chanting prayers very loudly right now! I have also seen when they have their candle festivals and have tons of candles going. Right now someone is also blowing a horn as they sing...its really pretty neat.

God bless

Oh no!! It's my fault for not being more clear earlier. :)

This link to the Wailing Wall is amazing!!! Yes, they are loud right now!! Ooooooooo!!! That is so neat!! Thanks a bunch for attaching this!! :hug:

God bless,
Alyssa

moonglow
Oct 1st 2008, 10:26 PM
Oh no!! It's my fault for not being more clear earlier. :)

This link to the Wailing Wall is amazing!!! Yes, they are loud right now!! Ooooooooo!!! That is so neat!! Thanks a bunch for attaching this!! :hug:

God bless,
Alyssa

Sure, no problem.....I have been in and out and left the window open to the Western Wall. Its pretty neat for sure! Yes I don't recall them praying and singing like this before...but I think its a holiday for them?? someone inform me quick!

God bless

tango
Oct 1st 2008, 10:30 PM
it's Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year.

moonglow
Oct 1st 2008, 10:35 PM
it's Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year.

Yea I just found it...so wonder they are blowing horns and singing...I found this:

http://urj.org/holidays/roshhashanah/
Rosh HaShanah (literally, "Head of the Year") refers to the celebration of the Jewish New Year. The holiday is observed on the first day of the Hebrew month of Tishrei, which usually falls in September or October, and marks the beginning of a ten-day period of prayer, self-examination and repentance, which culminate on the fast day of Yom Kippur. These ten days are referred to as Yamim Noraim, the Days of Awe or the High Holy Days.

While there are elements of joy and celebration, Rosh HaShanah is a deeply religious occasion. The customs and symbols of Rosh HaShanah reflect the holiday's dual emphasis, happiness and humility. Special customs observed on Rosh HaShanah include; the sounding of the shofar, using round challah, eating apples and honey (and other sweet foods) for a sweet new year.

There is also a customary service observed before Rosh HaShanah. S'lichot, meaning forgiveness, refers to the penitential prayers recited by Jews prior to the onset of the High Holiday season. It is a solemn and fitting preparation for ten days of reflection and self-examination.

If you scroll down a bit you can see the type of horn they are blowing. This is celebrated this year from Sept 29 through Oct 1st...oh and I check the other site I have on them and its after 1:30 in the morning over there. For some reason its not showing the time on the live camera.

God bless

Alyssa S
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:04 AM
Sure, no problem.....I have been in and out and left the window open to the Western Wall. Its pretty neat for sure! Yes I don't recall them praying and singing like this before...but I think its a holiday for them?? someone inform me quick!

God bless

I'm so glad you posted this link!!

I watched their sunset come up.... and when it popped over the wall it first formed a cross.... and then it was like a star. Did you see it? It was 10:50 to 10:53 Texas time. It was beautiful!!! I could even hear crickets earlier in the night... now the birds are chirping. Great quality for a webcam!

Wow!! I cannot believe that there are people throughout the whole night!! This is such an encouragement to my prayer life! Wow! :)

moonglow
Oct 2nd 2008, 01:34 PM
I'm so glad you posted this link!!

I watched their sunset come up.... and when it popped over the wall it first formed a cross.... and then it was like a star. Did you see it? It was 10:50 to 10:53 Texas time. It was beautiful!!! I could even hear crickets earlier in the night... now the birds are chirping. Great quality for a webcam!

Wow!! I cannot believe that there are people throughout the whole night!! This is such an encouragement to my prayer life! Wow! :)

No I missed it...:rolleyes: I had to close it out to use real player on a video I am helping a person make (he is a Christian singer)...two of us are working on it together and she had just emailed the download for it so I had to use real player for that...(there is a deadline on getting this done)..so I couldn't go check the webcam at that time though I had thought about it...:(

But I am glad you got to see it! That is so neat you saw the shadow of a cross! how cool is that?

Oh my son had a question for anyone that cares to answer...(sorry I realize we kind of got off the original topic). I told him about watching the wailing wall and how it was the Jewish New Year and they were celebrating so he wanted to know what year it was for them! :lol::rolleyes: I had no clue how to answer that one...:hmm:

God bless

Kahtar
Oct 2nd 2008, 01:41 PM
2009 Gregorian, or 5769 Jewish.............

moonglow
Oct 2nd 2008, 01:57 PM
2009 Gregorian, or 5769 Jewish.............

Oh boy...not sure how I would explain that to him...

Do they follow a general world calendar, to stay in line with the rest of the world on at least finances? or not? :hmm:


God bless

ananias
Oct 2nd 2008, 02:47 PM
Just a note: The new moon was sighted in Israel TODAY (October 2) at sundown. It is still Oct. 1 here in the US of course.

(This from Michael Rood................)

Thanks for that, Kahtar! :)

ananias

ananias
Oct 2nd 2008, 02:51 PM
Ananias, Roelof, and all other interested parties.

Okay, I've seen those listings of astronomical events before, and realize the potential significance of the dates they fall on. And I must say, sure is intriguing! But I also have to ask this: where on the face of the earth do these events appear? I mean, eclipses appear in differing totality depending on where on the earth the viewer is at the time. A total eclipse seen in Europe might not been seen at all in S. America, for example.

I tried googling this stuff, and found some interesting sites, but have to admit I didn't always understand the charts and graphs they post.

Here's what I'm getting at. If a blood moon occurs on a significant Jewish holiday, but is only visible from the north Atlantic ocean... or the arctic... does it mean anything if all the Jews are in Israel? (Kinda like the question: if a tree falls in the forest, but no one is around to hear it, did it make a sound?)

Seems like there should be something to this, but I can't figure out what. :hmm:

You have a good point there, Digreal. There's lots we don't know. But we're trying to fathom what the Bible says and we're watching anyway...

ananias

Kahtar
Oct 2nd 2008, 03:01 PM
Oh boy...not sure how I would explain that to him...

Do they follow a general world calendar, to stay in line with the rest of the world on at least finances? or not? :hmm:


God bless

Not sure about that. Fenris would probably be the one to ask there.

ananias
Oct 2nd 2008, 03:14 PM
I ask because this will affect the whole world!

All these Bank takeovers and mergers and now a Bailout, that very well could be a lose-lose situation...

Take $700 Billion Bailout=More Government control and more likely more corrupt buisness dealings with rich CEO's...

Deny $700 Billion Bailout=Risk Market collapse and total recession/depression.

Note:And if Obama gets voted in and raises the taxes after all this,then we are....well,you see what i'm saying.


I keep hearing from many sources that the World may have to "UNITE" the world banking to prevent a world collapse on the economy...(Europe lost a trillion dollars today...by the way from this ordeal)

Note:(Israel is in the process right now for a peace treaty being signed between now and a few more months)

See where I'm getting at?

Could someone miraculously get us out of this mess...?:pray::hmm:

Your thoughts?

I saw this headline today:

"Foreign economists urge 'global plan' :

http://www.worthynews.com/news/washtimes-com-news-2008-oct-01-foreign-economists-prod-us-on-global-plan-/

moonglow
Oct 2nd 2008, 03:38 PM
I saw this headline today:

"Foreign economists urge 'global plan' :

http://www.worthynews.com/news/washtimes-com-news-2008-oct-01-foreign-economists-prod-us-on-global-plan-/

Here is a link that explains what the Bretton Woods thing is about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

God bless

wombat
Oct 3rd 2008, 01:04 PM
Just a note: The new moon was sighted in Israel TODAY (October 2) at sundown. It is still Oct. 1 here in the US of course.

(This from Michael Rood................)
Hi, Kahtar! Do you happen to know if Tishri 1 was moved along with Rosh Hashanah, or if Rosh Hashanah then happened on Tishri 2? If Tishri 1 still occurred on the day of the interesting "7's", then there is another 7 to add in spite of Rosh Hashanah moving to the next day. I think I remember Tishri being the 7th month of the Hebrew sacred calendar.

Kahtar
Oct 3rd 2008, 01:36 PM
Hi, Kahtar! Do you happen to know if Tishri 1 was moved along with Rosh Hashanah, or if Rosh Hashanah then happened on Tishri 2? If Tishri 1 still occurred on the day of the interesting "7's", then there is another 7 to add in spite of Rosh Hashanah moving to the next day. I think I remember Tishri being the 7th month of the Hebrew sacred calendar.

Officially I don't think anything was moved. They actually celebrate Rosh HaShanah for two days anyway, and consider it 'one long day', which takes care of any discrepancy I guess.
However, I would submit that God uses HIS calendar rather than the Jewish calendar, so from His perspective it would have started at the appearance of the new moon.

WritingRose
Oct 7th 2008, 08:46 PM
I ask because this will affect the whole world!

All these Bank takeovers and mergers and now a Bailout, that very well could be a lose-lose situation...

Take $700 Billion Bailout=More Government control and more likely more corrupt buisness dealings with rich CEO's...

Deny $700 Billion Bailout=Risk Market collapse and total recession/depression.

Note:And if Obama gets voted in and raises the taxes after all this,then we are....well,you see what i'm saying.


I keep hearing from many sources that the World may have to "UNITE" the world banking to prevent a world collapse on the economy...(Europe lost a trillion dollars today...by the way from this ordeal)

Note:(Israel is in the process right now for a peace treaty being signed between now and a few more months)

See where I'm getting at?

Could someone miraculously get us out of this mess...?:pray::hmm:

Your thoughts?

I have been thinking the exact same thing, and my fingers keep itching to warn some people I care for who aren't saved. But I'm waiting for something big to happen before I press the panic alarm. I don't want them to roll their eyes and say, "Dumb Christians" without any real evidence.

But yeah... it's definitely looking like things are coming together, eh?

Jen

SpokenFor
Oct 7th 2008, 08:57 PM
I have been thinking the exact same thing, and my fingers keep itching to warn some people I care for who aren't saved. But I'm waiting for something big to happen before I press the panic alarm. I don't want them to roll their eyes and say, "Dumb Christians" without any real evidence.

But yeah... it's definitely looking like things are coming together, eh?

Jen

PLEASE do not wait until something "big" happens before you don your sackcloth and stand out on the street with a big sign saying "THE END IS NEAR" Do it today! These people that you care about could die tonight.
You don't need to hit some kind of panic button (in fact, I think the Bible is more like the book in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" with the cover that reads "Don't Panic") Just confront them with the law of God and how we all fall short of keeping those laws, but how a just God demands justice for the lawbreakers..and yet he provides mercy because of Christ's work on the cross.

Be strong and courageous! Josh. 1:9

tango
Oct 7th 2008, 09:00 PM
I have been thinking the exact same thing, and my fingers keep itching to warn some people I care for who aren't saved. But I'm waiting for something big to happen before I press the panic alarm. I don't want them to roll their eyes and say, "Dumb Christians" without any real evidence.

But yeah... it's definitely looking like things are coming together, eh?

Jen

It's important not to run around screaming like some kind of Chicken Little but also important to remember the end is pretty well described in Revelation. Whether this is the beginning of the end or one of many downturns that subsequently reverses, none of us is getting any younger.

WritingRose
Oct 7th 2008, 09:09 PM
PLEASE do not wait until something "big" happens before you don your sackcloth and stand out on the street with a big sign saying "THE END IS NEAR" Do it today! These people that you care about could die tonight.
You don't need to hit some kind of panic button (in fact, I think the Bible is more like the book in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" with the cover that reads "Don't Panic") Just confront them with the law of God and how we all fall short of keeping those laws, but how a just God demands justice for the lawbreakers..and yet he provides mercy because of Christ's work on the cross.

Be strong and courageous! Josh. 1:9


Oh, don't worry, I give the gospel. I just mean I didn't want to come out screaming THE END IS NEAR until we see a little more formation. I do tell people to be saved, because either Christ will return or they may die... so it's not like I keep my lips sealed. I just think too many CHristians have hindered more than helped by constantly screaming the end is coming because of this, that, and the other... when the circumstances worked themselves out in time. You see what I'm saying?

sarahgrace
Oct 8th 2008, 04:05 AM
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/the_amero_conspiracy/

What I believe is taking place is to set up America, Canada & Mexico, just like they set up the European Union and they now have a Euro as their currency. I also think that they are splitting the world up into 10 sections (10 horns/kingdoms).

This link you posted states that the whole thing is hogwash! Didn't you read it? :lol: