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White Spider
Oct 1st 2008, 06:49 PM
The next major attack on religion is here.

This Documentary, Religulous (http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/), sets out to disprove and make fun of religion, ALL RELIGIONS!

Now visiting the link, watching the Trailer, reading the Synopsis and the Filmmaker Bios - I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080909/293.religuous.poster.090908.jpg

markedward
Oct 1st 2008, 10:13 PM
Stupid website, resizing my browser window...

That said: Can you please explain how this is end-times related?

MrAnteater
Oct 1st 2008, 10:17 PM
Pure trash along the lines of a Michael Moore movie. Not even worth renting.

These people are so hateful they find humor in ridiculing the faith that means so much to us. I couldn't imagine taking all the time and resources to make such a movie to express this level of hatred.

These men are so lost and need our prayers.

Buzzword
Oct 1st 2008, 11:47 PM
Maher is doing this BECAUSE it is offensive, hence it is free publicity.

Additionally, he IS exposing some of the GENUINE logical holes in most religions.

Personally, I think the whole idea's hilarious.

Then again, I enjoyed Borat for the sole reason that no matter how offensive he was, he always found someone in America who agreed with him.

bennie
Oct 2nd 2008, 12:22 AM
Maher is doing this BECAUSE it is offensive, hence it is free publicity.

Additionally, he IS exposing some of the GENUINE logical holes in most religions.

Personally, I think the whole idea's hilarious.

Then again, I enjoyed Borat for the sole reason that no matter how offensive he was, he always found someone in America who agreed with him.


"Additionally, he IS exposing some of the GENUINE logical holes in most religions."

Does that include christianity???

Buzzword
Oct 2nd 2008, 12:30 AM
"Additionally, he IS exposing some of the GENUINE logical holes in most religions."

Does that include christianity???

Dunno. Haven't seen the film.

But from an outsider's point of view, there are potentially hundreds of logical fallacies in what Christians claim to believe.

Example: Christians often put "God is love" on t-shirts, and the New Testament says that God is willing that none should perish.

Compare to the God of the OT who ordered the deaths of men, women, children, and infants in the cities the Israelites conquered in Canaan.
Yet we say that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

This could potentially be interpreted as contradictory.

MrAnteater
Oct 2nd 2008, 03:58 AM
First off, you need to clean up your comments. This is a Christian forum, not the bar.


Maher is doing this BECAUSE it is offensive, hence it is free publicity.Second as a Christian, you really think it's acceptable to ridicule the life of Jesus and what He did at Calvary? You think God should be reduced to some circus clown all in the name of comedy?

So what is sacred in your world? Can I make a movie laughing at and criticizing your family in the name of comedy and to fill my pockets with money?


Additionally, he IS exposing some of the GENUINE logical holes in most religions.You think perpetuating lies and mis-quotes of scripture is a good thing?


Personally, I think the whole idea's hilarious.It's sad you find an atheist tearing up Jesus Christ comedy.

Buzzword
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:04 AM
First off, you need to clean up your comments. This is a Christian forum, not the bar.

Second as a Christian, you really think it's acceptable to ridicule the life of Jesus and what He did at Calvary? You think God should be reduced to some circus clown all in the name of comedy?

So what is sacred in your world? Can I make a movie laughing at and criticizing your family in the name of comedy and to fill my pockets with money?

You think perpetuating lies and mis-quotes of scripture is a good thing?

It's sad you find an atheist tearing up Jesus Christ comedy.

You seriously just proved my whole point about the panties thing.

LIGHTEN UP!

There's a REASON the church carries this stereotype of uppity, starched-collar nitpickers who don't know how to have fun!

MrAnteater
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:19 AM
You seriously just proved my whole point about the panties thing.

LIGHTEN UP!

There's a REASON the church carries this stereotype of uppity, starched-collar nitpickers who don't know how to have fun!

I have plenty of fun but there is absolutely nothing funny or comical about disrespecting God by a hateful atheist.

Many here love God and He has saved many lives including my own. I love God more than anything and this type of "comedy" is very offensive. So no, I won't lighten up on that fact and some things are off limits.

markedward
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:15 AM
There's a REASON the church carries this stereotype of uppity, starched-collar nitpickers who don't know how to have fun!Someone trying to tear down the teachings of Christ as offensively as he can is hardly "fun" in my book.

It's not nitpicking. It all goes back to the age-old cliche of "What would Jesus do?" I doubt even you can honestly answer that Christ would think it's funny to be ridiculed and mocked just for the sake of having "fun". If He wouldn't, you shouldn't.

There is a monstrous difference between (a) recognizing this movie as slanderous towards the name of God and (b) not having fun. As a Christian, you should immediately take offense (even if you being offended was the intent of the offender) to someone slandering Christ, and if you don't, you need to set your priorities straight: to be honest, this is a reflection of poor spiritual health if you find it "hilarious" for Christ to be mocked in any manner, let alone one that is intended to be "offensive".

White Spider
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:20 AM
Well it is certainly CONTROVERSIAL even in here.

I'll answer the question, how is this End Times related.

Reading and watching things, some things just hit me. This hit me.

I was just watching a little TV and the trailer came on. It screamed at me, a lot like "The Faith Club" did when I first saw it mentioned on CNN.

Stuff like this says to me that a time where Christians are persecuted for their ridiculous beliefs is not to far off.

Less than a century ago, people were outraged about evolution being taught in public schools. Today a movie like this can be made, and even Christians find it comical.

Pure Christianity is nearly a thing of the past it seems, is it hard to believe that in the not to distant future, us "uppity, starched-collar nitpickers" will be persecuted for our beliefs.

I see this as another step towards End Times world views. Don't you?

IPet2_9
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:11 AM
I noticed something in the Religulous trailer: the film location of one of the scenes. It was at "Holy Land Experience" in Orlando. That is like a Christian amusement park--paid admission--and the actors (e.g. "Jesus", Mary, Peter, Roman soldiers, etc.) are committed full-time to the ministry. And Bill Maher & crew were right there in the center of the park, interviewing Jesus. So the Christian staff there had to have let Bill and his team in to do this. It's like they let him in to share the Gospel with Bill--and if he ridicules them for it, then he ridicules them for it.

Now I am no fan of Bill Maher, and I wish TV wouldn't give him the time of day. But knowing that film setting gives me the impression that Religulous _might_ have more of a love-hate relationship with Christianity, more than hate-hate.

third hero
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:53 AM
Two words:

Bill Mahar.

Anyone who has heard this atheist talk will know exactly what I am talking about. Of course an atheist will poke fun at religion, because he believes that all religions are just tools. I am not even the least bit concerned about this movie, because I consider the sourse first, laugh, and move on. (Not to say that Bill Mahar is a total baffoon, but as far as religion is concerned, he is truly the definition of a moron, who knows absolutely nothing except what his hippie teacher taught him in the 70's).

markedward
Oct 2nd 2008, 07:14 AM
Pure Christianity is nearly a thing of the past it seemsWhat you're calling "pure Christianity" has only ever existed in the minority. "Pure Christianity" has always been a remnant, and almost never the bulk. Even in the earliest days of Christianity, the church was constantly backsliding. Many times that the apostles returned to a place that they had taught the gospel it was in need of some serious correction. You're right that a century ago people would have seen this as deplorable, but even then, those same people weren't a part of a "pure Christianity".

This is a movie, plain and simple. It's not the start of some giant "kill the Christians" revolution.

Buzzword
Oct 2nd 2008, 12:22 PM
Someone trying to tear down the teachings of Christ as offensively as he can is hardly "fun" in my book.

It's not nitpicking. It all goes back to the age-old cliche of "What would Jesus do?" I doubt even you can honestly answer that Christ would think it's funny to be ridiculed and mocked just for the sake of having "fun". If He wouldn't, you shouldn't.

There is a monstrous difference between (a) recognizing this movie as slanderous towards the name of God and (b) not having fun. As a Christian, you should immediately take offense (even if you being offended was the intent of the offender) to someone slandering Christ, and if you don't, you need to set your priorities straight: to be honest, this is a reflection of poor spiritual health if you find it "hilarious" for Christ to be mocked in any manner, let alone one that is intended to be "offensive".

1) This movie isn't just some Michael Moore-ish rant that just shows footage, fat guy, footage again.
Maher is actually talking to "religious people" and asking some of the questions that people raised outside the church tend to ask.
Just in the trailer, I recognized several questions my seeking-atheist friends have asked me.

2) Bringing up a meaningless old cliche that is totally based on individual interpretation of Christ's words and actions proves nothing in this discussion.
The truth that no one wearing a WWJD bracelet wants to address is that ASKING that question presumes that Jesus is DEAD, that we have to think about what He WOULD do because He isn't currently present to tell us what He WANTS us to do.

3) Who are you to tell others what they "should" be offended by?
Strictly speaking in terms of a comedy, if Religulous makes people laugh, it has succeeded as a film.
Your presumptiveness knows no bounds, if you are judging my spiritual health by what I find funny.

Isnt it THE CHURCH who are always taking a stand against "political correctness"?
Guess it only applies when it's stuff WE'RE saying, and everyone else can burn in hell.

TexasBeliever
Oct 2nd 2008, 01:30 PM
It's not funny, and if that guy had any inkling of what's in store for him, he wouldn't think its funny either. Do not be fooled, God will not be mocked. Every careless word against the Son of God is recorded.

What is most unnerving about things like this is, this is how all-out persecution starts; by slander. By stating that the way a group of people simply believes is grounds to treat them as unequal, second-class, worthy of ridicule, worthy of persecution, worthy of death.

Do you think that Nazi Germany simply started out yanking people out of their homes and shooting them or carting them off to death camps?

No. It started with a verbal barage against them, making the rest of the population see them as second-class citizens, objects to be hated and vilified.
And when it reached a cresendo or critical mass, if you will, it resulted in mass murder, death camps, medical experiments, gas chambers, ovens. Murder on a scale the world had never seen.

It all starts with a small seed: the spoken or written word.

Wake up.

John146
Oct 2nd 2008, 03:14 PM
What scripture says about people like Bill Maher:

Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

1 Corinthians 1
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 3
18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

What scripture teaches regarding how to deal with such people:

1 Peter 2
15For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

Movies like this don't bother me. All it's doing is bringing out in the open the kind of attitudes that many people nowadays have. Maher just happens to be one of the most outspoken of them. These kinds of movies can actually be beneficial in some ways. I know, sounds crazy. But anything that will get people to start talking about spiritual things can be a good thing. People who watch and enjoy the movie have already decided to not believe in God, anyway. They don't need Bill Maher's help to decide that they mock everything suggesting that there is a God who they have to be accountable to. But some might see the movie and it might spark them to take the rare occasion to actually contemplate the existence of God and spiritual things.

MrAnteater
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:46 PM
It's not funny, and if that guy had any inkling of what's in store for him, he wouldn't think its funny either. Do not be fooled, God will not be mocked. Every careless word against the Son of God is recorded.

What is most unnerving about things like this is, this is how all-out persecution starts; by slander. By stating that the way a group of people simply believes is grounds to treat them as unequal, second-class, worthy of ridicule, worthy of persecution, worthy of death.

Do you think that Nazi Germany simply started out yanking people out of their homes and shooting them or carting them off to death camps?

No. It started with a verbal barage against them, making the rest of the population see them as second-class citizens, objects to be hated and vilified.
And when it reached a cresendo or critical mass, if you will, it resulted in mass murder, death camps, medical experiments, gas chambers, ovens. Murder on a scale the world had never seen.

It all starts with a small seed: the spoken or written word.

Wake up.

You make good points. To everyone who think movies like this are no big deal or doesn't matter because its "just comedy" should study persecution against the Jews in WWII.

It's starts with propaganda meant to dehumanize the group of people in question. Once that seed has been planted in the publics mind it moves into more blatant forms of persecution because there is no longer any respect or desire to protect the second class citizens.

To anyone arrogant enough to think this is the USA and nothing like that could never happen here, think again. The previous administration before Hitler's was a Democratic one with a Chancellor. The NAZI's came into power during a huge economic crisis, by the way.

WretchedSinner
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:06 PM
Pure Trash!, it'll probably be a big hit:help:

unkn0wnNYC
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:58 PM
It's not funny, and if that guy had any inkling of what's in store for him, he wouldn't think its funny either. Do not be fooled, God will not be mocked. Every careless word against the Son of God is recorded.

What is most unnerving about things like this is, this is how all-out persecution starts; by slander. By stating that the way a group of people simply believes is grounds to treat them as unequal, second-class, worthy of ridicule, worthy of persecution, worthy of death.

Do you think that Nazi Germany simply started out yanking people out of their homes and shooting them or carting them off to death camps?

No. It started with a verbal barage against them, making the rest of the population see them as second-class citizens, objects to be hated and vilified.
And when it reached a cresendo or critical mass, if you will, it resulted in mass murder, death camps, medical experiments, gas chambers, ovens. Murder on a scale the world had never seen.

It all starts with a small seed: the spoken or written word.

Wake up.

Excellent post, I completely agree. Look, there is no doubt that the Bible shows us that Christians WILL be persecuted. They have in the past and they will in the future, in ways which we have not yet seen. All of these little things are paving the way for the domination of the Beast government and the horrors that will follow.

IPet2_9
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:59 PM
To anyone arrogant enough to think this is the USA and nothing like that could never happen here, think again. The previous administration before Hitler's was a Democratic one with a Chancellor. The NAZI's came into power during a huge economic crisis, by the way.

Yep. :thumbsup: In fact, when Nazi Germany invaded Poland, the people were firmly convinced that Poland had attacked THEM. But that would never happen here--we have a free press. Right?

markedward
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:30 PM
Not to derail the thread but, there is a huge difference between the mindset found in Americans and the one found in Germans.

A professor of mine told the class of how he studied in Germany for a few years. While living there, a discussion of "authority" came up, and a German gave an analogy as this:

Two buses are driving in the countryside, far away from any convenient locations. One bus has only Americans. The other bus has only Germans. At the same time, the buses both pull over to the side of the road. In each bus, the driver stands up and turns to the passengers and says "I'm going to have to ask all of you to get off the bus, single file." The Germans, without any real complaint, stand up and all walk off the bus, single file. The Americans, instead, ask "Why?"

My professor wasn't sure he believed this: Germans accepted authority just like that? To make sure, he began asking as many Germans as he could if this was true. Every single one of them told him "Yes."

The German mindset in general is much more acceptive of authority than Americans are - meaning, there was a reason the Germans were seduced by Hitler; he was commanding and charismatic. He wielded authority simply through his speech. Americans, on the other hand, have a long history of questioning authority. Even now our two lead presidential candidates wield the same authority Hitler did (commandance and charisma), but we're constantly questioning their actions every single day.

Case in point: you can't predict the future of America through Germany's history.

White Spider
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:33 PM
This is a movie, plain and simple. It's not the start of some giant "kill the Christians" revolution.

I'm not saying it is, but it doesn't help . . .

It is conditioning the minds of people to think religion is wrong.

It is not just a movie, it is a lot lot more than that.

". . . it seemed to me in recent years that this issue - this cause of debunking the man behind the curtain - needed to have a larger, more insistent and focused forum than late night television . . . there is nothing more ridiculous than the ancient mythological stories that live on as today's religions . . . comedically speaking, the topic of religion is pretty much hitting the side of the barn . . . Join me in the final battle between intelligence and stupidity that will decide the future of mankind. Coming to a house of false idols near you."

All that from the filmmaker bios on the website . . . that above is all from Bill Maher's section . . .

Saying this is just a movie, is like saying Hitler was just a man . . . both true statements, but neither come close to describing the full extent of the two.

This is far more than just a movie!

White Spider
Oct 2nd 2008, 06:38 PM
The Order Towards Death

1) Something is wrong.
2) People who are wrong need to be punished.
3) They refuse to change, so kill them.


You can see this with a million things over the course of history. We are coming upon step 1 right now.

aceinthehouse
Oct 2nd 2008, 08:33 PM
For 1...I don't think a movie full of Blastphemy is very funny....and if I did,I would have to re-evaluate my christianity....

Those people that were making Jesus carry his own cross,probably thought that was funny...

Those people seeing him spit on,thought it was probably funny...

Those people seeing him whipped to death probably thought it was pretty funny...

But the funny thing really is....It's always funny,when it's not "YOU" being the target of slander,humiliation and other attrocities...

It's never funny,when you take something of the magnitude Jesus did for us christians and then get a true understanding of why he did what he did.....only to see some guy like Bill Maur use it as a punchline!

People like that,don't have the holy spirit in them and hopefully they can repent what they have done....

But one thing is for sure...They won't be laughing when they are slung into a firey pit of hell!:hmm:

God bless

TexasBeliever
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:46 PM
Good posts everyone. I once witnessed to someone very close to me. As a matter of fact, it was my husband.
He told me "only an imbecile and a biggot would believe that there is only one way to heaven."

A statement like this coming from the man I have shared 29 years with! If thoughts like this are within one's own home, then people with thoughts like this in the USA and the world is more pervasive and terrible than most would like to admit.

What really sets people off about Christianity is that we believe that there really is only one way to the Father. And the other thing is that we believe it is because of sin that we will be denied entrance into heaven and that the Son of God took our sins upon Himself to secure our eternal destinies. They do NOT want to believe that they are naturally unworthy of heaven and NEED a savior.

quiet dove
Oct 3rd 2008, 12:03 AM
This is getting off the ETC aspect, and to give you a little more leeway in discussion I am moving it over to Contro.

White Spider
Oct 3rd 2008, 04:59 AM
Thanks Quiet Dove, this did run off in a Controversial direction.

And I want to say I agree with you TexasBeliever.

We as Christians believe there is only one way and thus why we will be persecuted.

Though I think Muslims and other religions believe there is only one way as well many of them teach of a world teacher and thus will be deceived by the Beast.

Mainly Christians will oppose the Beast and be persecuted . . .

And my point of this thread was to show that this movies view pushes the world closer to accepting persecution of Christians for our beliefs and that the world is already more accepting of ridicule Christians and religion.

Persecution is already in many parts of the world, many many parts, and this movie struck me as a step towards our persecution in the Western Cultured Countries.

The movie aims to kill God, it's on;y a matter of time they realize you can't start to kill God until you kill those who believe and perpetuate Him.

PRAISE BE TO GOD!!! THE ALMIGHTY! :pp And may He bless those who worship Him.

Buzzword
Oct 3rd 2008, 12:33 PM
I bet ya'll also think/thought that The Da Vinci Code would send people to hell, too....

The only people who will be moved to ridicule by this movie are those who were ALREADY inclined to do so.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, we have no witness to the everyday person who doesn't take themselves too seriously.

If an individual Christian can't look a scoffer in the eye without becoming enraged, that Christian apparently has emotional issues that would best be addressed by a psychiatrist.

Plus, ranting about this film just gives it even MORE free publicity, and achieves at best: nothing, at worst: pushes more people to see the film JUST TO FIND OUT WHAT ALL THE SHOUTING IS ABOUT.

TexasBeliever
Oct 3rd 2008, 01:11 PM
I bet ya'll also think/thought that The Da Vinci Code would send people to hell, too....

The only people who will be moved to ridicule by this movie are those who were ALREADY inclined to do so.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, we have no witness to the everyday person who doesn't take themselves too seriously.

If an individual Christian can't look a scoffer in the eye without becoming enraged, that Christian apparently has emotional issues that would best be addressed by a psychiatrist.

Plus, ranting about this film just gives it even MORE free publicity, and achieves at best: nothing, at worst: pushes more people to see the film JUST TO FIND OUT WHAT ALL THE SHOUTING IS ABOUT.

There are many instances in the Bible of prophets and kings, even Jesus Himself, becoming enraged because of blasphemous and wicked behavior; it's called righteous indignation.

Toymom
Oct 3rd 2008, 01:42 PM
Additionally, he IS exposing some of the GENUINE logical holes in most religions.

Personally, I think the whole idea's hilarious.


Yep. I agree.
I have not seen the movie - is it out yet?
But, from what I have seen of the trailers, it looks funny.
It looks to me like it is making fun of religion and religious people and practices, not making fun of God Himself.
God is not religion.
Religion is not perfect.
There are some wierd things going on in religion including the Christian religous groups.

I saw an interview with Bill and he is agnostic and had been raised Catholic.
I can understand that.
I personally think the whole Jesus on a piece of toast is ridiculous, which the movie points out.

I think that having a "holy land amusement park" is ridiculous too and I find the whole idea of that a bit offensive and I also find Jesus action figure dolls offensive.

I do not think it is right to mock God, but I do not necessarily see a problem with mocking strange things that people do in the name of religion.

Buzzword
Oct 3rd 2008, 02:10 PM
There are many instances in the Bible of prophets and kings, even Jesus Himself, becoming enraged because of blasphemous and wicked behavior; it's called righteous indignation.

Well, let's see. Just offhand...

Moses: got angry due to the people's idol worship

Jesus: got angry due to the moneychangers taking advantage of worshippers.

Nothing in there about mocking religious practices.

If questioning church practices is considered "blasphemous," then all of our great spiritual ancestors from Christ down were all blasphemers.

White Spider
Oct 3rd 2008, 06:54 PM
I bet ya'll also think/thought that The Da Vinci Code would send people to hell, too....

The only people who will be moved to ridicule by this movie are those who were ALREADY inclined to do so.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, we have no witness to the everyday person who doesn't take themselves too seriously.

If an individual Christian can't look a scoffer in the eye without becoming enraged, that Christian apparently has emotional issues that would best be addressed by a psychiatrist.

Plus, ranting about this film just gives it even MORE free publicity, and achieves at best: nothing, at worst: pushes more people to see the film JUST TO FIND OUT WHAT ALL THE SHOUTING IS ABOUT.

I had no problem with the Da Vinci Code, well I thought the movie was horrible compared to the book, but other than that it didn't aim to disprove and mock God. At least not anywhere close to what Religulous is doing.

It was more of a thriller suspense story with a theory based loosely around conspiracy theories that were anti-Jesus. Not much to get enraged about personally. Now a movie set out with the single goal of disproving the religious theories of the world is something to be enraged about.

I can laugh at myself, and do quite often, but there is an enormous insurmountable difference in laughing at myself and laughing at God.

And we are not giving it more publicity, at least as long as we keep it in here . . .

I am not questioning your faith, just your judgement . . . Ask yourself? Does God think this movie is funny?

White Spider
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:04 PM
The two of you seem to think Bill Maher's goal is to joke about religious practices . . . IT'S NOT!!! :B

This is a line taken directly from the movie website in the section of Bill Maher's bio

it seemed to me in recent years that this issue - this cause of debunking the man behind the curtain - needed to have a larger, more insistent and focused forum than late night television

Need I say more . . . :rolleyes:

Buzzword
Oct 3rd 2008, 10:06 PM
The two of you seem to think Bill Maher's goal is to joke about religious practices . . . IT'S NOT!!! :B

This is a line taken directly from the movie website in the section of Bill Maher's bio

it seemed to me in recent years that this issue - this cause of debunking the man behind the curtain - needed to have a larger, more insistent and focused forum than late night television

Need I say more . . . :rolleyes:

You do see the Wizard of Oz reference, right?

He's saying that the presentation of God by many religious groups is just a few people using God's name to gain influence and power over others.
I.E., a few men behind the scenes pulling strings and pushing buttons to use fear as a method of control.

They just put God's name on it, and will receive their due punishment in time.

TexasBeliever
Oct 3rd 2008, 10:20 PM
Well, let's see. Just offhand...

Moses: got angry due to the people's idol worship

Jesus: got angry due to the moneychangers taking advantage of worshippers.

Nothing in there about mocking religious practices.

If questioning church practices is considered "blasphemous," then all of our great spiritual ancestors from Christ down were all blasphemers.


I didn't say they got angry about mocking religious practices. I said they got angry over what they "considered" to be wicked or blasphemous behavior.


Some of us consider this movie to be blasphemous, in poor taste, bigoted, slanderous, vile, ect. ad nauseam. You do not see it that way, I do. That being so, I see no productivity in bantering back and fourth with you on that point.

White Spider
Oct 5th 2008, 01:26 AM
You do see the Wizard of Oz reference, right?

He's saying that the presentation of God by many religious groups is just a few people using God's name to gain influence and power over others.
I.E., a few men behind the scenes pulling strings and pushing buttons to use fear as a method of control.

They just put God's name on it, and will receive their due punishment in time.

I see the Wizard of Oz reference . . . I think he's referring to God, not people using God for power.

He is trying to disprove God!

Buzzword
Oct 5th 2008, 02:34 AM
He is trying to disprove God!

Let him try, and laugh as he tries, either because he exposes fallacies in what people say about God, or because he falls flat on his face in the attempt.

Either way, great entertainment.:D

MrAnteater
Oct 5th 2008, 10:49 PM
Either way, great entertainment.:D

If mocking God by a hatful athiest doesn't offend you, what exactly would qualify as an offensive movie for you?

This just blows my mind that any Christians find humor in mocking God.

Buzzword
Oct 6th 2008, 12:33 AM
If mocking God by a hatful athiest doesn't offend you, what exactly would qualify as an offensive movie for you?

One that shows a man being beaten to within a millimeter of bleeding to death, with chunks of flesh being ripped off, which is later lauded by Christians to the point that they are encouraged to take their kids to watch senseless violence, and try to use it as an evangelizing tool.

AKA, The Passion

Revinius
Oct 6th 2008, 01:42 AM
I think The Passion is very senseful violence.

danield
Oct 6th 2008, 02:06 AM
Bill Maher has really assaulted Christianity not only in this movie but in his HBO show. And I am surprised to see how his assaults are well received to cheering audiences. I watch in amazement at how our society has morphed into a Godless society. It is a sad progression of media blitz against God that has been building for years. The flood gates are open to influence our youth to accept alternate lifestyles and one of the best ways to do this is to convince them to turn a blind eye to God and his ways. For those who do not know Bill Maher is gay, and he is just one of the many in Hollywood who project the complete acceptance of the atheistís views. In fact he carries it one step further and blames many problems we face today on people who do uphold God and his ways. He is a smart man, and he knows what he is doing.

the inside out
Oct 6th 2008, 09:38 PM
I love film! I love it! I'll watch anything except most chick flicks. I don't get offended by ANYTHING: sex, drugs, vulgar language, whatever. It does not bother me. I could sit through "Brokeback Mountain" a thousand times and be just fine (and I'd probably cry a thousand times). It takes a LOT to offend me. Heck, I thought the new Saw V teaser trailer was clever!

I first saw this trailer at the theater I work at...and I was offended! I was disgusted. It's hateful beyond reason. How any Christian, who claims to love Jesus, could find this funny or worth the price of admission is beyond me. Granted, I'd get in free, but it's not worth my time or my Jesus.

I do not like Bill Maher and I refuse to enable him. He's an ignorant atheist with a television show, and it upsets the mess out of me. He'll get an oscar nod for this, I'm sure, and hopefully I remember to shut off the television when they call his name.

Teke
Oct 7th 2008, 04:53 PM
I'm not saying it is, but it doesn't help . . .

It is conditioning the minds of people to think religion is wrong.

It is not just a movie, it is a lot lot more than that.

". . . it seemed to me in recent years that this issue - this cause of debunking the man behind the curtain - needed to have a larger, more insistent and focused forum than late night television . . . there is nothing more ridiculous than the ancient mythological stories that live on as today's religions . . . comedically speaking, the topic of religion is pretty much hitting the side of the barn . . . Join me in the final battle between intelligence and stupidity that will decide the future of mankind. Coming to a house of false idols near you."

All that from the filmmaker bios on the website . . . that above is all from Bill Maher's section . . .

Saying this is just a movie, is like saying Hitler was just a man . . . both true statements, but neither come close to describing the full extent of the two.

This is far more than just a movie!

It's more than just a movie if you make it so.

The above comment seems to say it all, " final battle between intelligence and stupidity".

There is nothing more to it than the sort of rhetoric seen on Comedy Central TV.

Meaning placed is found within ourselves not outside from others. Something to think about....

White Spider
Oct 7th 2008, 07:01 PM
It's more than just a movie if you make it so.

The above comment seems to say it all, " final battle between intelligence and stupidity".

There is nothing more to it than the sort of rhetoric seen on Comedy Central TV.

Meaning placed is found within ourselves not outside from others. Something to think about....

I'm sorry, but what I think it is does not change anything. I can go crazy and call it an elephant, but it wouldn't be an elephant.

It is an offensive anti-GOD film made solely to tell people God is stupid and make them laugh at the same time.

I guarantee stupid jokes Maher makes in this movie will be repeated by the youth of America . . . instilling anti-GOD feelings in them.

So we can choose to think whatever we want . . . but it doesn't, and never will, change anything.

Teke
Oct 7th 2008, 08:34 PM
Personally that type of comedy doesn't suit my taste. Don't even know why it's so funny as far as comedies go.

Now something like "Beer For My Horses" would be a good funny movie to me. :lol:

And yet it never made it to theaters here where I am this summer. I'm waiting for it to come out on DVD in November to see it. The trailers were hilarious, and I am a Toby Keith fan. :D

White Spider
Oct 7th 2008, 09:38 PM
Well it's funny, to the average person, because they think religion is stupid too . . . it's a sad fact even most people who are semi religious find parts of religion ridiculous and stupid.

This movie wouldn't have been possible to make 50 years ago . . . that's how fast things are changing.

livingword26
Oct 7th 2008, 09:45 PM
The truth that no one wearing a WWJD bracelet wants to address is that ASKING that question presumes that Jesus is DEAD, that we have to think about what He WOULD do because He isn't currently present to tell us what He WANTS us to do.


Everything we do, should be because He told us to. Jesus Spirit is available to us all.

White Spider
Oct 8th 2008, 01:06 AM
The truth that no one wearing a WWJD bracelet wants to address is that ASKING that question presumes that Jesus is DEAD, that we have to think about what He WOULD do because He isn't currently present to tell us what He WANTS us to do.

Well since someone else brought this up I would like to point out the ignorant error in this statement.

Simply because the question is "What would Jesus do?" does not suggest He is dead.

Believing that shows that you are quite gullible and gave no thought to it, just spewing some ignorant person's dumb question.

Say I'm in a situation right this moment and I ask myself the question, "What would Buzzword do?" I by no means am suggesting you are dead.

You can ask that question very easily with a live person as you should be able to see with half a thought about it.

You are very easily manipulated if you ask me, you need to really THINK about things a little more.

Any other questions you have about Christianity that you would like me or others on this board to explain away.

Teke
Oct 8th 2008, 03:14 PM
Well it's funny, to the average person, because they think religion is stupid too . . . it's a sad fact even most people who are semi religious find parts of religion ridiculous and stupid.

This movie wouldn't have been possible to make 50 years ago . . . that's how fast things are changing.

Since we give credence to religion, if that is true, then it us who are seen as ridiculous and stupid. Are we ashamed? "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; Rom.1:16


Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


Act 13:40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
Act 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.


Hbr 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches......

Hbr 11:36 And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Hbr 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Hbr 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth.


To us who are not ignorant of the gospel of Christ, that movie is nothing. We are not an advertisement, we are the Body of Christ, showing love, mercy and charity.

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue [that] shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This [is] the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness [is] of me, saith the LORD.

MrAnteater
Oct 8th 2008, 09:36 PM
One that shows a man being beaten to within a millimeter of bleeding to death, with chunks of flesh being ripped off, which is later lauded by Christians to the point that they are encouraged to take their kids to watch senseless violence, and try to use it as an evangelizing tool.

AKA, The Passion

You obviously haven't read much scripture because it's a pretty accurate description of what happened. Christ's death was very brutal. You really should educate yourself on how the Romans actually killed prisoners because you can't imagine how horrible it was if you think the movie was some over dramatization.

I find it so ironic a biblically accurate Christan movie is offensive to you and an atheist trashing God isn't.

I'm really praying for you.

Revinius
Oct 9th 2008, 01:53 AM
I find, as Christians we tend to cotton ball the crucifixion a little. I like the passion as it aims to demonstrate how excruciating (notice the origin of that word) the pain of such a death was like. Add to that the sins of the world and we have quite a horrific picture. This is, as i said above, a very 'sensicle' approach.

CoffeeCat
Oct 9th 2008, 03:22 AM
There's a good deal of debate and discussion going on here, but I wonder if I could still find anyone currently in this discussion who has actually seen the movie they're debating. Anyone? I know a lot of you wouldn't see it, but has anyone gone and watched it, and come back with their own ideas on it? Curious.

I went on opening night. I went with other Christians and students (there was a free late-night screening for students) and I reviewed the movie in an 'Anything Goes' thread here the next day. (See http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1812412&postcount=24 ) -- you'll see a different attitude in that review of mine, and this. The review from Anything Goes was a kneejerk reaction. A lot of it is still valid, but I've had a bit of time to think about it, so I'm not as hasty to give everything a blanket statement now.

Very, very quick summary:
- he mostly picks on odd fringe practices of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.... and mostly mistakes the part for the whole -- he interviews people with odd views, or people who are abusing the power they have, or people who are angered by people who have different views so they walk out during the scene.... and he mistakenly says "look how odd this whole group is!"
- he has a BIGGER problem with how people interpret the Bible than with the Bible itself. He is NO lover of religion (in fact, he thinks we need to let it go in order to survive as a human race) but in the movie, he REALLY picked on the people who do horrible or bizarre or self-seeking things in the same OF religion. For example, churches that cost billions of dollars to build.... pastors who wear lizard-skin shoes because they believe the 'people want them to look nice'.... suicide bombers who literally take devotion for their God to a violent, excessive extreme. Odd characters with radical views who are in love with themselves, not God, but claim a connection to God.
- it IS a typically "leftist" film. He has an agenda, and he pushes it to the point of going on a few rants.
- There ARE a few funny parts. I laughed. Not every single minute of the movie is mocking God. There is plenty of plain ABSURDITY that he mocks, and I laughed at that. A few people make funny or odd comments, and you laugh at those, too. There's humor. Not ALL of it in this movie is offensive. Some IS offensive. A good bit, even. But definitely not all.

Overall... I got what I expected from the film. I feel like I can appreciate smaller parts of it, like the general point he's making that it's the ABSURD practices in religion, as well as the dangerous ones, that either turn people away or seriously harm them. I disagree with him on several points obviously, and with the ways in which he skews ideas. To understand what I mean..... you'd need to watch the film. I do not hate Bill Mahr, though. Not by any means. I'd sit down for a coffee with him and talk. I respected ONE thing about this film, as I said in my "Anything Goes" post -- for whichever reasons he had..... he was generally kind to those he spoke with. He wasn't above giving a hug or a handshake, or sharing a joke with someone who belonged to a particular faith. I appreciated that.

So here's what makes my post "contro" -- my gut reaction after seeing it was a stronger criticism. I've had a few days to sit back and think about it. Yes, he unfairly and sometimes irrationally attacks things. But like a lot of documentaries, there's a kernel of SOMETHING decent in it, and it DID make me think and occasionally laugh. And I love Christ just as I did before seeing it; it didn't shake my faith any. Like Mahr, I think exploiting religion for your own aims (political, social, financial, military/violent, etc etc) is utter nonsense.

I hope a few more people who are debating the movie will see it, so you can add your perspectives.