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Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:04 PM
2 Peter 1:20-21

20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

When I read the above verses, I hear God saying that no man can understand the bible without the Holy Spirit. I read(on another forum site)where someone saw it as meaning, no man is to understand it himself(Holy Spirit or not)but it must be taught to each man and woman by Holy men of God. Now nothing against people who believe in Catholicism, but isn't that what their doctrine teaches? Anyone want to comment? (LOL, I crack me up)http://connect.christianmingle.com/emoticons/wink.gif

The verses below help me to further understand how the Holy Spirit works in us so that we can understand His Word. I don't believe an unsaved person can "understand" God's Word anymore. I used to think anyone could read the bible and "get" it. But to me, now, the bible is a "locked" book until a person is given the Key(the Holy Spirit)

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) “For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.


God bless everyones day!!! your sister in Christ, denise:hug:

Duane Morse
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:40 PM
It has nothing to do with our own understanding of scripture.

It is saying that the prophesies in scripture came to the holy men of God through the Holy Spirit, not of their own private interpretation or understanding.

I agree that we can not understand the scriptures without the Holy Spirit's help, but that passage in 2 Peter is not addressing that issue.

divaD
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:49 PM
2 Peter 1:20-21

20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

When I read the above verses, I hear God saying that no man can understand the bible without the Holy Spirit. I read(on another forum site)where someone saw it as meaning, no man is to understand it himself(Holy Spirit or not)but it must be taught to each man and woman by Holy men of God. Now nothing against people who believe in Catholicism, but isn't that what their doctrine teaches? Anyone want to comment? (LOL, I crack me up)http://connect.christianmingle.com/emoticons/wink.gif

The verses below help me to further understand how the Holy Spirit works in us so that we can understand His Word. I don't believe an unsaved person can "understand" God's Word anymore. I used to think anyone could read the bible and "get" it. But to me, now, the bible is a "locked" book until a person is given the Key(the Holy Spirit)

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nivp#) “For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.


God bless everyones day!!! your sister in Christ, denise:hug:




2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


This is how the KJV renders it. What is it talking about? It's talking about prophecy of the Scripture, with prophecy being the keyword.

Then in verse 21 it tells us how in old time, how prophecy recorded in the OT came to be, it came not by the will of man, but by holy men of God , who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.



We need to at least read this passage like this, in order to understand the intended meaning of 2 Peter 1:20-21.


2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 *And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:12 PM
It has nothing to do with our own understanding of scripture.

It is saying that the prophesies in scripture came to the holy men of God through the Holy Spirit, not of their own private interpretation or understanding.

I agree that we can not understand the scriptures without the Holy Spirit's help, but that passage in 2 Peter is not addressing that issue.

I don't know if I am understanding what you are saying? Before Jesus sent His Holy Spirit, before His ascension, only certain people had the Spirit, (inspired by the Holy Spirit). Now, anyone who asks can be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, therefor be able to have the same blessing the Holy men of God did?(have scripture opened up to them) Am I making sense? LOL:)

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 05:33 PM
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


This is how the KJV renders it. What is it talking about? It's talking about prophecy of the Scripture, with prophecy being the keyword.

Then in verse 21 it tells us how in old time, how prophecy recorded in the OT came to be, it came not by the will of man, but by holy men of God , who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.



We need to at least read this passage like this, in order to understand the intended meaning of 2 Peter 1:20-21.


2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 *And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Ok so you're saying the two "groups" of verses are not related? In the way I see them being related? To summarize:

Only Holy men of God could understand Gods Word
After jews and gentiles alike could have the Holy Spirit, all could understand

I understand prophesying is a gift only some have, all saved have different gifts, some the same(I understand).

I know I am not sure where the "rub" is here so anyone is welcome to help me understand:)

Duane Morse
Oct 2nd 2008, 07:30 PM
I don't know if I am understanding what you are saying? Before Jesus sent His Holy Spirit, before His ascension, only certain people had the Spirit, (inspired by the Holy Spirit). Now, anyone who asks can be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, therefor be able to have the same blessing the Holy men of God did?(have scripture opened up to them) Am I making sense? LOL:)
It isn't that the scriptures were 'opened up' to the prophets.

They are the ones that wrote the scriptures, with the guidence of the Holy Spirit.

The people that 2 Peter 1:20-21 is speaking about are the likes of Isaiah, and Daniel, and Moses. (not us)

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 07:48 PM
It isn't that the scriptures were 'opened up' to the prophets.

They are the ones that wrote the scriptures, with the guidence of the Holy Spirit.

The people that 2 Peter 1:20-21 is speaking about are the likes of Isaiah, and Daniel, and Moses. (not us)

Yes, they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, I understand, but so is every other person filled with the Holy Spirit, right?? All through scripture God spoke to "certain" named people, or like Jesus talking to the folks in "the Sermon on the Mount". But surely you aren't saying that every word of God is not meant for all born-again folks?? Again, I am no prophet, so I am not saying that. Don't want any confusion around that. I believe all the bible is for all believers though. It's God's Word to ALL believers. Are we in agreement? Am I still missing something?? I want to learn so totally open to feedback.:)

Duane Morse
Oct 2nd 2008, 07:52 PM
But every other person does not write scripture, we only read it and seek to understand what was written.

You seem not to get the point.
That passage in 2 Peter is not talking about all of us. It is ONLY talking about the prophets that wrote the books.

Other than that, I don't disagree with you.

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 08:06 PM
But every other person does not write scripture, we only read it and seek to understand what was written.

You seem not to get the point.
That passage in 2 Peter is not talking about all of us. It is ONLY talking about the prophets that wrote the books.

Other than that, I don't disagree with you.

Ok, yes, I get that. Not scripture, but here's a thought too. Born again believers are inspired by the Holy Spirit to write, speak, read, learn etc. Just not scripture, right? I would never believe God would have anyone "add to" or "take away" from scripture, the Holy Bible:) Im thinking that any thing we say that is not in the bible is pretty meaningless unless God still speaks through us. Man is my mind wandering today:)LOL!!

Emanate
Oct 2nd 2008, 08:32 PM
Ok, yes, I get that. Not scripture, but here's a thought too. Born again believers are inspired by the Holy Spirit to write, speak, read, learn etc. Just not scripture, right? I would never believe God would have anyone "add to" or "take away" from scripture, the Holy Bible:) Im thinking that any thing we say that is not in the bible is pretty meaningless unless God still speaks through us. Man is my mind wandering today:)LOL!!


God does still speak through his Word. What more do we need than Life that is found in the very living pages? Many times we seek the Spirit so that God can speak to us and in enters error.

timmyb
Oct 2nd 2008, 08:39 PM
we are encouraged to test the prophecies, and i believe that verse should apply to our interpretations of the Bible... that's why we need the time for the apostles doctrine... which is why i thouroughly enjoy these forums... we need to seek God, we have a personal relationship... but he has brought us together for a reason...

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:04 PM
God does still speak through his Word. What more do we need than Life that is found in the very living pages? Many times we seek the Spirit so that God can speak to us and in enters error.

You are so right. I hope I didn't type anything that sounded as if I didn't believe God speaks through His Word. It's my whole life!! So He better;) Thank you for your input. Love to hear more about how error enters in because I believe that as well. satan is always ready to derail us that seek God with all our hearts. We have to be alert all the time. This a.m. I actually remembered to pray about "putting" on Gods armor so that those "fiery darts" can't get through:)

God bless you brother, denise:)

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:07 PM
we are encouraged to test the prophecies, and i believe that verse should apply to our interpretations of the Bible... that's why we need the time for the apostles doctrine... which is why i thouroughly enjoy these forums... we need to seek God, we have a personal relationship... but he has brought us together for a reason...

amen darlin, I got chills reading that:) So true!! I enjoy it too. I don't get out that much right now and it is such a blessing, praise God for the fellowship I find here, and, it is so nice to meet another brother in Christ:) I love Charlie Brown:hug: I have to run an errand but will look forward to maybe discussing more,

ysic, denise

Teke
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:08 PM
Rather than the word "interpretation", a better word would be "origin". Meaning it doesn't originate with man but with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit/God counsels man on what to say.

timmyb
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:09 PM
Rather than the word "interpretation", a better word would be "origin". Meaning it doesn't originate with man but with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit/God counsels man on what to say.

i agree................. but it's just a technicality anyway....

Oregongrown
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:55 PM
Rather than the word "interpretation", a better word would be "origin". Meaning it doesn't originate with man but with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit/God counsels man on what to say.

Yes, I like it:) Thank you teke!!

God bless your day, denise

Oregongrown
Oct 3rd 2008, 02:57 PM
On a site I've belonged to all these years. It related to what we've been talking about here so thought I would post it:) God bless your day!!! denise

I found this old post from 2005, by accident, ha, or maybe the Lord hepped me;) It really hits on the "private interpretation" post so decided to share it. God bless your day, denise

Posted: 20 Jul 2005, 6:00am
i sometimes am not sure if it is the Holy Spirits leading or a "gut" instinct. If I take the time to look it up in His Word, I know for sure but I am guilty of jumping ahead without "looking". God bless everyones day, denise

Offering daily wisdom and insight from God's Word for life in the 21st century
Proverbs 16:9
Woodrow Kroll: Fighter pilots must trust their instruments. Often they fly in conditions, such as darkness or in clouds, in which they are forced to trust the instruments over their "gut" instinct. Now and then a pilot believes the instruments to be wrong, and he'll do what he thinks is right. In most of those cases the pilots end up crashing because their instincts were wrong and their instruments were right.
Whether we are talking about flying a fighter jet or making important life decisions, our instincts are not always reliable.
Proverbs 16:9 gives a better option:
"A man's heart plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps."
It's good to plan, but our plans need to be subject to the leading of God Himself. Ultimately, when God is at the controls, our direction is always right.
Would you like to ride in a jet with a pilot who ignores the instruments because he doesn't "feel" like they're right? Not me.
God directs our steps when we listen to His voice by reading and obeying the Bible. Read it today and trust His instruments.

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