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keck553
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:10 PM
I would like to hear some comments regarding Yom Kippur.

Lev 16:29 "This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;
Lev 16:30 for it is on this day that atonement shall be made for you to cleanse you; you will be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 "It is to be a sabbath of solemn rest for you, that you may humble your souls; it is a permanent statute.
Lev 16:32 "So the priest who is anointed and ordained to serve as priest in his father's place shall make atonement: he shall thus put on the linen garments, the holy garments,
Lev 16:33 and make atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tent of meeting and for the altar. He shall also make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly.
Lev 16:34 "Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year." And just as the LORD had commanded Moses, so he did.

I've been reading and praying about two things regarding this feast -

1. Dividing God's word from tradition
2. Evaluating the day in light of Yeshua

Dividing the K'dosh from the chav is fairly easy. Not that tradition is bad, it's just that tradition is not a Holy command.

It's the Messiah connection that I struggle with. From the depths of my heart and soul, I do not want to profane or diminish the works of Yeshua Who provided me the assurance of atonement. as a free, totally undeserved gift. I treasure that gift with every fiber of my being.

Presently Yom Kippur as practiced by unbelieving Jews is a dead work. There is no Temple available to fully carry out God's command. Without a temple and blood sacrifice, there is no atonement, that is Torah and God's command can not be changed or altered to suit us.

For beleivers, Yeshua is our atonement, we need not come to Him once a year. Furthermore, Yom Kippur is a day of atonement for national Isra'el. I don't know how that applies to the body of Messiah, if at all.

So my question is, how do I celebrate this day without diminishing or profaning the atonement Yeshua paid such a high price to purchase?

I thought about a couple things. Tradition says Yom Kippur is a day to focus on 'getting right with God' and to 'getting right with your brothers and sisters'. I think this is indeed profitable, to fast and spend a day separated from the works and distractions of the world and allow God to search our hearts and reveal to us any iniquities or blemish we may have against our brothers and sisters. Every time I have fasted and spent an entire day with God has been an incredible blessing for me.

So, for those believers who choose to treasure God's holy days, what do you do?

David Taylor
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:20 PM
I guess I would celebrate it by reading the following scripture:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever" Hebrews 9:28

and thanking my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, for being the true and perfect fulfillment of Yom Kippur.

Emanate
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:22 PM
My family and I fast and reflect on exactly how we know that Y'shua is our Atonement. Reading up on the sacrifical system as it pertained to Yom Kippur coupled with a read through Hebrews 8, 9, 10 always reveals something new in the mighty work of Messiah.

keck553
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:56 PM
I guess I would celebrate it by reading the following scripture:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever" Hebrews 9:28

and thanking my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, for being the true and perfect fulfillment of Yom Kippur.

What translation is THAT ??

Teke
Oct 2nd 2008, 08:55 PM
So, for those believers who choose to treasure God's holy days, what do you do?

Traditionally the historical church celebrated feasts year round which center on Jesus Christ. ie. Incarnation, Transfiguration, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Pentecost and related themes to these.
I would think the Pascha (Resurrection aka Easter in the west) feast would be the one closest to what you've put forth, as that is seen as the day He entered the heavenly temple completing the sacrifice as High Priest, thereby "atoning" for the world. In the east, or according to the old church calendar (which counts by weeks from Pentecost) that day always falls on the Sunday after the Jewish Passover.

Emanate
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:03 PM
Traditionally the historical church celebrated feasts year round which center on Jesus Christ. ie. Incarnation, Transfiguration, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Pentecost and related themes to these.
I would think the Pascha (Resurrection aka Easter in the west) feast would be the one closest to what you've put forth, as that is seen as the day He entered the heavenly temple completing the sacrifice as High Priest, thereby "atoning" for the world. In the east, or according to the old church calendar (which counts by weeks from Pentecost) that day always falls on the Sunday after the Jewish Passover.


You mean "God's" Passover. And actually, the early church instituted Easter to set it apart from God's Passover. The actual phrasing said that easter is to be set on the first Sunday after the Equinox, as pagan custom dictates.

Also, Pascha has nothing to do with Easter, it is Passover. Pentecost is based on counting from Passover (in the Scriptures). The first Pentecost being when the Churched received Torah at Sinai.

Yom Kippur speaks directly about Y'shua fulfilling the role as High Priest. Whereas Passover speaks of His being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World, saving us by His Blood.

SpokenFor
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:26 PM
I think that fasting and prayer/reflection and praising God for our atonement through Jesus is a great way to spend the day. Maybe include an observance of Communion?

Teke
Oct 2nd 2008, 09:43 PM
You mean "God's" Passover. And actually, the early church instituted Easter to set it apart from God's Passover. The actual phrasing said that easter is to be set on the first Sunday after the Equinox, as pagan custom dictates.

Also, Pascha has nothing to do with Easter, it is Passover. Pentecost is based on counting from Passover (in the Scriptures). The first Pentecost being when the Churched received Torah at Sinai.

Yom Kippur speaks directly about Y'shua fulfilling the role as High Priest. Whereas Passover speaks of His being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World, saving us by His Blood.

Friend I have no quarrel with you.

Eastern Christians (Greek, Russian, Coptic, American etc. Orthodox) call it Pascha, and on the regular calendar (Gregorian) it is the Sunday after the Hebrew Passover (the nation Israels' national holy day).

Christian Pascha relates Him as High Priest making a peace offering (the Lamb) to reconcile mankind with God. AkA the feast of the Resurrection.
The Christian church did not take away Israel's national holy days (days associated with their national identity).

keck553
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:16 PM
Thanks all. I think I'm going to spend a great deal of time praying with our Jewish brothers and sisters who will be praying with thier hearts and souls for forgiveness. I will pray that God reach into any seekers repentant and open heart and reveal to them thier Machiach who came to redeem them almost 2000 years ago. I will pray for thier salvation through the One who loves them so much, He openly wept for them, and lamented how much He wanted to gather them, like a hen gathers it's chicks. I will pray that they see through the haze of rabbinic and Christian tradition and clearly see the reality and truth of the Holy One of Isra'el.

I will pray with the nation of Isra'el to look to Eloheim through the lens of His Spirit and His heart, that the veil be lifted in mercy to anyone who seeks. I will pray that even one Jew who loves Eloheim, no matter what the personal or public cost can pronounce openly and loudly:

"Baruch haba HaShem Adonai, Yeshua HaMachiach"

BHS
Oct 6th 2008, 01:35 AM
Good thoughts. Along with our soul searching, the need to humbly confess is a part of the day. Though fasting and seeking the face of the Father is an intregral part of this one day, I think it should be done far more often.

The idea of Israel confessing their sin corporately helps them to see themselves as a community. This, too, would be important for the church to see themselves as a body of believers, dependent upon one another and responsible to one another.

Blessings,
BHS

Toymom
Oct 6th 2008, 03:56 AM
I grew up in Reform Judaism and finally decided that I thought the high holy days were hypocritical. Those were the only days most people went to synagogue and then it was a fashion show. You had to dress your best because other people would see you and you could not wear the same outfit twice and I did not understand the concept of repentance - it did not seem to have been explained well to me. I could not understand why I needed to participate in the fashion show and confess my sins once a year just so I could go out and do it again for another year. Plus, I never really knew what I was supposed to confess - everything I did that was bad? cause that would take more time than just one day if I really had to remember all of it from the whole year.

Now I am a born again Christian.

I understand that Jesus died for my sins and I confess to Him and repent and there is not a need for a fashion show or one day of attonement since we should be confessing daily.

valleybldr
Oct 6th 2008, 09:50 AM
So, for those believers who choose to treasure God's holy days, what do you do?
Fast, take off from work and worship with others....oh and usually "pipe in" on a discussion of whether the Azazel goat is a picture of Satan or Jesus. todd

Emanate
Oct 6th 2008, 01:08 PM
I grew up in Reform Judaism and finally decided that I thought the high holy days were hypocritical. Those were the only days most people went to synagogue and then it was a fashion show. You had to dress your best because other people would see you and you could not wear the same outfit twice and I did not understand the concept of repentance - it did not seem to have been explained well to me. I could not understand why I needed to participate in the fashion show and confess my sins once a year just so I could go out and do it again for another year.


That is very similar to Easter in the Church, is it not?

BHS
Oct 6th 2008, 05:14 PM
I grew up in Reform Judaism and finally decided that I thought the high holy days were hypocritical. Those were the only days most people went to synagogue and then it was a fashion show. You had to dress your best because other people would see you and you could not wear the same outfit twice and I did not understand the concept of repentance - it did not seem to have been explained well to me. I could not understand why I needed to participate in the fashion show and confess my sins once a year just so I could go out and do it again for another year. Plus, I never really knew what I was supposed to confess - everything I did that was bad? cause that would take more time than just one day if I really had to remember all of it from the whole year.

Now I am a born again Christian.

I understand that Jesus died for my sins and I confess to Him and repent and there is not a need for a fashion show or one day of attonement since we should be confessing daily.

Praise God! Perhaps it was this incomplete experience that brought you to know Jesus' saving love!

Blessings,
BHS

threebigrocks
Oct 6th 2008, 06:38 PM
I thought about a couple things. Tradition says Yom Kippur is a day to focus on 'getting right with God' and to 'getting right with your brothers and sisters'. I think this is indeed profitable, to fast and spend a day separated from the works and distractions of the world and allow God to search our hearts and reveal to us any iniquities or blemish we may have against our brothers and sisters. Every time I have fasted and spent an entire day with God has been an incredible blessing for me.

So, for those believers who choose to treasure God's holy days, what do you do?

Then fast and pray as the Spirit leads. That is just as rich as doing so on a specific day or season. It is part of the beauty of the liberty we have in Christ!


I guess I would celebrate it by reading the following scripture:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever" Hebrews 9:28

and thanking my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, for being the true and perfect fulfillment of Yom Kippur.

precisely, Christ has made atonement, it's done! :pp Celebrate every day as one that we live under Christ and His atoning work on the cross.

keck553
Oct 6th 2008, 06:47 PM
Thank you B3R. I do understand these things. However that's not the purpose of my question.

threebigrocks
Oct 6th 2008, 06:52 PM
Thank you B3R. I do understand these things. However that's not the purpose of my question.

Well I quoted your OP, and it sure looks like you were asking what to do. If you choose to observe anything in faith through Christ then do so in Spirit and in truth. Simple enough! That is what He asks of us.

If you are asking to reconcile the premise that Yom Kippur and believing in Christ contradict each other, then that should tell you to examine it closely in prayer. They do contradict, and I believe that if you reread your own OP - you will have the answer.

Christ is our atonement. Nothing else.

keck553
Oct 6th 2008, 07:08 PM
I understand the difficulty of the concept, but in no way am I confused as the the source of my atonement and how I received it.

God is a time-keeper. There will definately be a 'day' when Messiah returns, and it certainly won't be like any other day. God set up these times for a purpose, and I don't think it was soley to have a entire nation to act out a self-righteous program.

Yom Kippur has kept God's chosen apart from humanity in a diaspora that lasted for almost 2000 years. I think that is a work of God, not of man, in that any other culture would have been totally dispersed in 2000 years into the cultures and traditions of thier host. It may mean nothing to most Christians, but I think it means a lot to God. And if it's important for God, I honor that, even if I do not understand His ways or His purposes.

If God didn't want Jews praying on Yom Kippur, He could have just wiped them out through the nations. Because it's probably on a Yom Kippur day that Messiah will return and redeem Israel. Don't you think we Christians should honor God's plan? My question was just 'how', that's all. It had nothing to do with our redemption in Messiah.

threebigrocks
Oct 6th 2008, 07:33 PM
I understand the difficulty of the concept, but in no way am I confused as the the source of my atonement and how I received it.

God is a time-keeper. There will definately be a 'day' when Messiah returns, and it certainly won't be like any other day. God set up these times for a purpose, and I don't think it was soley to have a entire nation to act out a self-righteous program.

Yom Kippur has kept God's chosen apart from humanity in a diaspora that lasted for almost 2000 years. I think that is a work of God, not of man, in that any other culture would have been totally dispersed in 2000 years into the cultures and traditions of thier host. It may mean nothing to most Christians, but I think it means a lot to God. And if it's important for God, I honor that, even if I do not understand His ways or His purposes.

If God didn't want Jews praying on Yom Kippur, He could have just wiped them out through the nations. Because it's probably on a Yom Kippur day that Messiah will return and redeem Israel. Don't you think we Christians should honor God's plan? My question was just 'how', that's all. It had nothing to do with our redemption in Messiah.

Hum... God's chosen, as we define it today, is not who Yom Kippur was given to.

Jews, those not born again, do celebrate Yom Kippur according to Jewish tradition. They still do because that is their faith. It seems you are combining what was given to God's chosen, Israel, with God's chosen through the blood of His Son.

We should simply honor Christ. If we do that, we are doing well. God's plan, as it has for thousands of years, will continue to play out regardless what we do. If that wasn't so, and believers are in the minority, then couldn't we say that God's plan is altared through the majority of non-believers?

That is how - we honor Christ and follow Him.

keck553
Oct 6th 2008, 07:40 PM
I beg to differ, but believing, born again Jews certainly do observe Yom Kippur.

And I do follow Messiah. Yeshua observed Yom Kippur. What do you think He was praying on Yom Kippur? For His atonement? I doubt it. I think He was praying for Israel's redemption.

threebigrocks
Oct 7th 2008, 03:59 PM
Seems that you answered your own OP then. No contradiction in your mind, seems you've worked it through.