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markedward
Oct 3rd 2008, 05:40 PM
A popular belief I have seen in the last number of years is that the beast of the sea (re: "the antichrist") would be killed, and that Satan would bring him back to life.

This idea stems from the belief that much of what Satan does is intended to be a twisted, backwards version of what God does. For example, God seals His followers, so Satan has the beast place a mark on his followers. God has His kingdom of heaven, so Satan has his worldly kingdom. So, in suit, God has His Christ, so Satan therefore has his antichrist, the beast. And thus, God's Christ was resurrected from the dead, and so shall Satan's antichrist be resurrected from the dead.

This is a line of think I've encountered in many places; book, articles, movies, churches, etc.

The main verses used for this antichrist-resurrection lie in Revelation 13.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

12 And he [the beast of the earth] exercises all the power of the first beast [of the sea] before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

14 And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

And this seems to be a relatively popular belief. But I think the conception of it - that Satan will literally raise a man from the dead - is completely unfounded, Biblically. Here's why I think so:

First
The text never actually says that the beast died. It says he appeared as if wounded to death, and that he had a "deadly wound". Every translation I've examined says that the beast's wound healed, not that the beast flat-out died. But the verses each state that the beast had a deadly wound, and that the wound, which appeared to be deadly to the beast, was healed - not that he died. You have to be dead to be resurrected.

Second
As an interpretational method, compare the beast of chapter 13 to the beast of chapter 17. As far as we can tell, they're the same beast - they each have seven heads, ten horns, evil, etc. In chapter 17 we are told that the seven heads represent both seven kings, and seven hills. In chapter 13 we are told that one of the hills was wounded, not all. Could it be possible that the wounding of these single head is only the harming of one king or one hill - even if that king did die - but that the beast as a whole lived? This in itself would allow for the "death" to be possible, but the harming of the head (one singular king or hill) was what weakened the whole of the beast (all seven kings, or all seven hills), so that when the beast was healed, it wasn't necessarily the singular king/hill being resurrected... just the beast regaining strength after the loss of one of its kings/hills?

Third
Christ's resurrection was part of His unique claim to being God. In the entire Bible, resurrections are only ever performed through followers of God. Jesus is the only person to have resurrected without God sending a servant to Him first. If Satan is somehow able to resurrect a man from the dead, this completely destroys Christ's unique claim to having power over death. In John 5:21, Christ states that "as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it." His statement is narrow and to the point. The Father is the One who raises the dead and gives them life. And the Son is the One who gives life to whomever He will give it to. Christ is specifically attributing the sole authority of life over death to God. So to claim that Satan will literally raise a man (the antichrist) from the dead as a copy of Christ's work nullifies Christ's statement that it is God (and God alone) who "raises the dead and gives them life".

Points One and Three, as I've brought them up, leave zero room for Satan to have any sort of true resurrective power. Point Two (moreso Interpretation Two) gives an alternate explanation for what exactly is going on in Revelation 13. And, I maintain, even if the beast is a single man, I would strongly urge others to take into account Point One - the text never actually says that he died. He might appear to be dead, but it would be, for lack of better terms, a hoax.

In the end, I think the overall claim that Satan has any sort of true resurrective power - that is, that he is capable of actually raising someone from physical death - is completely unfounded in the Bible.



(Note: I placed this thread in the Bible Chat, and not End-Times Chat, because my main focus is upon Satan's supposed resurrective power - this is a topic that spans beyond just End-Times Chat.)

Literalist-Luke
Oct 3rd 2008, 06:57 PM
A popular belief I have seen in the last number of years is that the beast of the sea (re: "the antichrist") would be killed, and that Satan would bring him back to life.The beast's true "death" was when the Ottoman Empire was "killed" at the end of World War One. That same "beast" is in the process of coming back right now, with the rise of Islam happening all around us.

(Of course, it could have a dual interpretation in the "return" of the 12th Imam, the "Mahdi", who supposedly fell down a well centuries ago. His "return" could also be counted as a "return" from the dead. Just depends on how you look at it.

markedward
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:14 PM
Instead of being dogmatic about what I was using as a vehicle for my main point (re: the antichrist), do you have anything to say about my main point itself (re: Satan's alleged power to raise the dead)? As I said in my footnote, this topic is about Satan's so-called resurrective power, not the antichrist.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:33 PM
I would seriously doubt if he has any power to raise the dead right now, else he probably would have been using it. However, if God were to choose to give him that power long enough to use on the Antichrist, then who am I to say God can't give Satan that power?

markedward
Oct 3rd 2008, 07:43 PM
And where does the Bible substantiate that God would give Satan the power to raise the dead, other than it being raised only specutively in relation to the apparent death of the beast and his subsequent "resurrection"?

Literalist-Luke
Oct 4th 2008, 02:22 AM
And where does the Bible substantiate that God would give Satan the power to raise the dead, other than it being raised only specutively in relation to the apparent death of the beast and his subsequent "resurrection"?It doesn't. I tend to agree with you that Satan won't be bringing anybody back from the dead.

However, the world we live in is full of skepticism. People will take every excuse they can to explain away anything that appears to be supernatural, because they don't want to have to admit there's a real God. So for the world to say "Who is like unto the beast?" means that something extraordinary is going to have to happen, whatever it is.

When I say that I think the world's wonderment is going to be directed at the beast empire, namely the return of the Islamic Caliphate in one form or another, that is only my personal opinion. The Bible doesn't really give us a lot of detail about how this will come to pass. We just have to have faith that when the time comes, it will be crystal clear.

I have no argument with your opinion that Satan cannot raise people from the dead. I would have to agree with that. The only way he would be able to raise somebody would be if God were to give him that power, as I said, but I'm very skeptical of the idea of God actually doing that.

Does that clarify things? :)

markedward
Oct 4th 2008, 03:37 AM
Yes, certainly, thanks for your reply.

Teke
Oct 4th 2008, 10:51 PM
But I think the conception of it - that Satan will literally raise a man from the dead - is completely unfounded, Biblically.

I agree.

The verse (15) your subject refers to says, "And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

The bible is speaking about an "image"/idol that seems to be alive.
Irenaeus, Clement, Justin and Eusebius all note that Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) used illusion and occult practices to makes idols seem alive.

That this type of practice actually happened is bore out by archeological discoveries of such idols as well as actual blueprints for the building of them and what sources to power them with ie. water, heat etc.
Many were quite elaborate and provided the sense of awe the priest set out to acquire from the people for the worship of false gods/idols.

dan
Oct 5th 2008, 10:11 AM
...That the Bible should be taken literally whenever possible, and this is one of those times.
The wounded head of the beast is a man, as are the other six heads of this beast, IMO.
He was wounded by a weapon in a manner that should have been deadly but doctors healed him. His wound was bestowed on 30 March 1981, and he still lives with us today.
His message is, "The murderers must not be killed with a weapon". The opposite of the truth spoken by the Holy Spirit in Rev. 13:10.

Remember that Jesus told you to buy a weapon, and that God demands that you kill murderers.

LK 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

NUM 35:31 You shall not take money of him that is guilty of blood, but he shall die forthwith.
NUM 35:32 The banished and fugitives before the death of the high priest may by no means return into their own cities.
NUM 35:33 Defile not the land of your habitation, which is stained with the blood of the innocent: neither can it otherwise be expiated, but by his blood that hath shed the blood of another.
NUM 35:34 And thus shall your possession he cleansed, myself abiding with you. For I am the Lord that dwell among the children of Israel.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 6th 2008, 12:04 AM
The Bible should be taken literally whenever possible, and this is one of those times.That should yield some interesting results here.
The wounded head of the beast is a man, as are the other six heads of this beast, IMO.How many seven-headed men do you know?
He was wounded by a weapon in a manner that should have been deadly but doctors healed him.Where in Revelation does it speak of "doctors"?
His wound was bestowed on 30 March 1981, and he still lives with us today.What, you mean Reagan? Sorry to break this to you, but he died.
His message is, "The murderers must not be killed with a weapon". The opposite of the truth spoken by the Holy Spirit in Rev. 13:10.That's it? That's the basis of your argument? That one statement?
Remember that Jesus told you to buy a weapon, and that God demands that you kill murderers.Where in the Bible does God tell each of us to go hunt down murderers and kill them? How would that make us not guilty of murder as well?

Dani H
Oct 6th 2008, 01:12 AM
The last enemy that shall be defeated, is death.

No, satan cannot resurrect because death is his final and most powerful weapon, and he cannot reach beyond it.

He can fake it, of course, like he fakes everything else, but only God can resurrect. Only life (which God is) can conquer death.

David Taylor
Oct 6th 2008, 02:38 PM
I would seriously doubt if he has any power to raise the dead right now, else he probably would have been using it. However, if God were to choose to give him that power long enough to use on the Antichrist, then who am I to say God can't give Satan that power?

You would be a sound Bible student; to say that.

It is impossible for Satan to raise the dead.

We know this, because of God's Word.

If Satan had the power of resurrection; then Christ's resurrection could have been counterfeited by Satan; and we would not have a trustworthy saviour.

If Satan could raise the dead; then Christ's accomplishment disappears; and we have no way of knowing if it were by God or by Satan.

Resurrection, is an action that only God Almighty has power over; and Satan will and can never have.

God alone, not Satan, has power over death and life.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 6th 2008, 06:07 PM
You would be a sound Bible student; to say that.

It is impossible for Satan to raise the dead.

We know this, because of God's Word.

If Satan had the power of resurrection; then Christ's resurrection could have been counterfeited by Satan; and we would not have a trustworthy saviour.

If Satan could raise the dead; then Christ's accomplishment disappears; and we have no way of knowing if it were by God or by Satan.

Resurrection, is an action that only God Almighty has power over; and Satan will and can never have.

God alone, not Satan, has power over death and life.Right, I agree. :yes: I never meant to suggest that Satan has the power to raise people from the dead. If he did have that ability, he would no doubt have been using/abusing it, as you said.

I also seriously doubt the Antichrist will be actually "raised from the dead". My opinion (for what it's worth) is that the beast's head wound being healed is a reference to the return of the Islamic Caliphate as a world power. That's where I would put my money.

The only thing I was saying about Satan raising the Antichrist is that I would not be caught off guard if God did allow Satan to have the power to raise that one person from the dead (and nobody else), but again, I still seriously doubt that's what John had in mind when he wrote Revelation.

dan
Oct 7th 2008, 01:35 AM
That should yield some interesting results here.

[QUOTE=Literalist-Luke;1813204]How many seven-headed men do you know?

None. But I know a few organizations that have seven board members.


Where in Revelation does it speak of "doctors"?

Wow, how perceptive. Like many other parts of the Bible it assumes the reader has some "grasp" of some subjects. Hint: Soldiers kill...Doctors heal.:lol:


What, you mean Reagan? Sorry to break this to you, but he died.That's it?

Another great quote. Reagan was hit in the chest, any other guesses?:rofl:


That's the basis of your argument? That one statement?Where in the Bible does God tell each of us to go hunt down murderers and kill them? How would that make us not guilty of murder as well?

Now here's a lesson for all that would aspire to converse about any subject. Reading about it first really helps.:idea:
As you are a brother, I won't make you search it out...here it is:

GEN 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
GEN 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

...And here:

EX 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, [there shall] no blood [be shed] for him.
EX 22:3 If the sun be risen upon him, [there shall be] blood [shed] for him; [for] he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

...And here:

NUM 35:31 You shall not take money of him that is guilty of blood, but he shall die forthwith.
NUM 35:32 The banished and fugitives before the death of the high priest may by no means return into their own cities.
NUM 35:33 Defile not the land of your habitation, which is stained with the blood of the innocent: neither can it otherwise be expiated, but by his blood that hath shed the blood of another.
NUM 35:34 And thus shall your possession he cleansed, myself abiding with you. For I am the Lord that dwell among the children of Israel.


PROV 20:18 [Every] purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war.

PROV 24:6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors [there is] safety.

ECCLES 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
ECCLES 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up [that which is] planted;
ECCLES 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
ECCLES 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
ECCLES 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
ECCLES 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
ECCLES 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
ECCLES 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.


...Amongst others.
There are also passages that hint that the beast will take weapons from those that need them:

DAN 11:22 And the arms of the fighter shall be overcome before his face, and shall be broken; yea also the prince of the covenant. (Douay)

As for the "one statement" you see there are many. Also, there is the manner of his wounding (by a weapon) and healing.

All these things are in the Bible. I suggest you accept them.