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itzme
Oct 6th 2008, 12:48 PM
What exactly does that mean for a Christian? The common idea through the NT is that if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven. Does that mean that if we confess and repent sin, that prayer will not be heard if we are bitter and unforgiving towards others? I know all the scripture references, I just never stopped to think about the ramifications. It makes sense, but also seems harsh because we all very imperfectly (most of us) forgive, and I think it is something that takes along time to perfect.

Marc B
Oct 6th 2008, 01:02 PM
It looks like you already know the answer to that one so I won't post Bible quotes you may already know. Like every other flaw in our carnal characters sometimes it takes awhile to change a bad habit into a good habit including forgiveness. Some people forgive easily and some hold grudges more often than not. If you're the latter then ask God to soften your heart in this matter and learn to let go of your anger by reading chapters that show where Jesus taught us how to treat our fellow human beings. You do know the standard you use to judge others will be used against you right? Just remember that when you're not in a forgiving mood. So it goes without saying that to adopt a forgive and forget attitude will definitely work in your favor when the time comes to give account of your life to our Lord and Saviour. I know I'd want the Lord to forgive and forget my sins. I'm sure you do too. :)

9Marksfan
Oct 6th 2008, 01:07 PM
It's a hugely important subject in the gospels - Jesus is clearly saying that having an unforgiving heart is completely incompatible with being a Christian - we really need to deal with grudges and bad relationships with one another - and if we are truly forgivEN people, we will be forgivING people as well. But it WILL take a lifetime - we need to maintain a sensitive spirit towards God - and others - at all times.

Sold Out
Oct 6th 2008, 03:25 PM
What exactly does that mean for a Christian? The common idea through the NT is that if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven. Does that mean that if we confess and repent sin, that prayer will not be heard if we are bitter and unforgiving towards others? I know all the scripture references, I just never stopped to think about the ramifications. It makes sense, but also seems harsh because we all very imperfectly (most of us) forgive, and I think it is something that takes along time to perfect.

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Ephesians 4:32

itzme
Oct 6th 2008, 04:05 PM
It looks like you already know the answer to that one so I won't post Bible quotes you may already know. Like every other flaw in our carnal characters sometimes it takes awhile to change a bad habit into a good habit including forgiveness. Some people forgive easily and some hold grudges more often than not. If you're the latter then ask God to soften your heart in this matter and learn to let go of your anger by reading chapters that show where Jesus taught us how to treat our fellow human beings. You do know the standard you use to judge others will be used against you right? Just remember that when you're not in a forgiving mood. So it goes without saying that to adopt a forgive and forget attitude will definitely work in your favor when the time comes to give account of your life to our Lord and Saviour. I know I'd want the Lord to forgive and forget my sins. I'm sure you do too. :)

Yes, I knew this too, but until last night (middle of the night, no sleep for me I am afraid), I never thought it through and the ramifications thereof. They are pretty tough sayings and parables.

itzme
Oct 6th 2008, 04:26 PM
I guess I am wondering too, I am not the only Christian struggling with unforgiveness, does this mean that the average man/woman Christian on the street is walking around with unforgiven sins? What does this do the the generic body of believers.

9Marksfan
Oct 6th 2008, 06:04 PM
I guess I am wondering too, I am not the only Christian struggling with unforgiveness, does this mean that the average man/woman Christian on the street is walking around with unforgiven sins? What does this do the the generic body of believers.

Very important point. But Jesus' kingdom parables teach that there will be sheep and goats, wheat and tares, wise and foolish builders/virgins, good and bad fish/servants in His church until He returns - that's why it's so important to forgive one another from the HEART - it's the evidence that we have received NEW HEARTS - an unregenerate heart CANNOT forgive - a regenerate one CAN and WILL! I preached on this (Matt 18) a while ago - if you have an email address, I can send you the slides.

keck553
Oct 6th 2008, 06:27 PM
Very important point. But Jesus'kingdom parables teach that there will be sheep and goats, wheat and tares, wise and foolkisah builders/virgins, good and bad fish/servants in His church until He returns - that's why it's so important to forgive one another from the HEART - it's the evidence that we have received NEW HEARTS - an unregenerate heart CANNOT forgive - a regenerate one CAN and WILL! I preached on this (Matt 18) a while ago - if you have an email address, I can send you the slides.

I would say unforgivenss in a Christian can be one of those battles-not-in-the-flesh things, and can best be fought with the armor of God Paul detailed in Ephesians 6. Struggling with unforgiveness doesn't mean God's Holy Spirit isn't indwelt in that person; it means there is a raging battle going on. Sanctification or the renewing of the mind causing our will to turn to God's ways is not an instantaneous flick of the switch thing. That our spirits are connected to the Spirit of God through Messiah is a different matter than the process of our regenerated 'hearts.'

Everyone at some point becomes concerned with thier salvation because of this raging battle. That is the point of conviction, so that we may turn to God to empower us and lead us in victory. When we realize the One who has every reason to convict us has mercifully and graciously forgiven us who have no excuse, Who paid our ransom by the horrific and bloody sacrifice of His Son, how much more than should we be willing forgive others?

Unforgiveness in us puts His sacrifice as having less value than our personal grudge.

cdo
Oct 6th 2008, 07:48 PM
What exactly does that mean for a Christian? The common idea through the NT is that if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven. Does that mean that if we confess and repent sin, that prayer will not be heard if we are bitter and unforgiving towards others? I know all the scripture references, I just never stopped to think about the ramifications. It makes sense, but also seems harsh because we all very imperfectly (most of us) forgive, and I think it is something that takes along time to perfect.

I have some issues of forgiveness toward those who may have hurt me or for whatever the reason is.First is :it hurts me more than it does the one I'm bitter at,so in order for me to have the peace I need ...I must forgive with a heart of pureness and my help comes from Jesus to lead me to forgive and to release that burden off my heart.(bad luggage).And to those I have to forgive,They no longer have control over me."That is very important".....Control......
Blessings,I hope this might help......Trust in Jesus.....
Darlene :hug:
P.S. yes,it's fair in God's judgement and His word is Truth.
Jesus took our sins upon Him and we didn't deserve it.so since He took ours away then we should follow His word and example and forgive those who may not deserve our forgineness because we didn't deserve it either.

keck553
Oct 6th 2008, 09:53 PM
jesus took our sins upon him and we didn't deserve it.so since he took ours away then we should follow his word and example and forgive those who may not deserve our forgineness because we didn't deserve it either.

a m e n

.................................

itzme
Oct 6th 2008, 10:05 PM
What I was thinking last night and today;

That I depend on God to forgive me for my sins both pre-conversion and post-conversion. I was thinking how horrible it would be not to have that to depend on. I can easily think of all the things that God has forgiven me for, and that I should do the same for others.

I am really hurting myself by having this in my thought pattern.

That God wants me not to have ugly thoughts in my head, he want me to love my others. Also, there are so my parables and teaching about forgiveness that it is a relative no-brainer faith speaking.

If I am serious about stepping up my faith walk I do have to do this, and I am pretty sure I am being prompted in this area.

Also, I have forgiven many times in the past and it has brought nothing but positive things to my life.

9Marksfan
Oct 7th 2008, 10:28 AM
I would say unforgivenss in a Christian can be one of those battles-not-in-the-flesh things, and can best be fought with the armor of God Paul detailed in Ephesians 6. Struggling with unforgiveness doesn't mean God's Holy Spirit isn't indwelt in that person; it means there is a raging battle going on.

Amen! Thanks for clarifying that - the key thing is that there IS a struggle going on - the worrying thing is where there's NO struggle - and the person either isn't concerned about forgiving the one who has offended them (quietly nursing that grudge - and happy to do so) - or actually JUSTIFYING their lack of forgiveness (and I've seen professing Christians do this!!!!) - THAT is a terrifying thing to see.


Sanctification or the renewing of the mind causing our will to turn to God's ways is not an instantaneous flick of the switch thing.

Amen!


That our spirits are connected to the Spirit of God through Messiah is a different matter than the process of our regenerated 'hearts.'

In what way? My point was that it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to forgive EVERYONE from our hearts if we have an unregenerated "heart of stone" - but with a renewed "heart of flesh" - although we will often struggle with "the old man", BECAUSE we are connected to the Spirit of God and it is HIS work in us that will ULTIMATELY prevail, we WILL have that supernatural ability to forgive - amen?


Everyone at some point becomes concerned with thier salvation because of this raging battle. That is the point of conviction, so that we may turn to God to empower us and lead us in victory. When we realize the One who has every reason to convict us has mercifully and graciously forgiven us who have no excuse, Who paid our ransom by the horrific and bloody sacrifice of His Son, how much more than should we be willing forgive others?

AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!


Unforgiveness in us puts His sacrifice as having less value than our personal grudge.

Well said indeed.