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larry2
Oct 8th 2008, 05:48 PM
In your opinion using scripture if possible, who or what is this angel mentioned in Revelation below? I do have my opinion I will bring out later.

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto his servant John:

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 03:26 AM
It is very evident larry2 that you have asked too hard a question for all these here with knowledge of prophesy. Maybe you should just state who or what the angel is. :) No I'll wait for awhile, surely there is someone out there that has an idea. Questions like this promotes study of God's word, and God would not have written it in His word unless there was something to be understood.

jeffweeder
Oct 9th 2008, 03:59 AM
Hows it going Larry.

Hmmm, ill take a guess and say it was Gabriel.
He is the Angel of Gods presense

LK 1

The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.

markedward
Oct 9th 2008, 04:06 AM
The angel of 1:1 is likely the same angel who speaks to John in some of the chapters of the book.

Overall, however, there is no Biblical evidence for the identity of this angel, because the Revelation simply does not say. People can guess that it was Gabriel, but there's still no evidence for that.

Aside from that, how is the name of an angel directly relevant to the actual purpose of the Revelation? Perhaps the angel wasn't identified for a reason?

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 04:15 AM
Thank you and Jeffweeder for your responses, and I will say that it is not Gabriel. There is actual scripture telling us who the angel is in more than one place. This was a real revelation to me when I learned it, and I will soon reveal it; there still may be someone who knows or finds the answer. The answer is in the book of Revelation. :)

markedward
Oct 9th 2008, 04:19 AM
Instead of making this a quiz game, would you like to just tell us?

It's much simpler, it allows for discussion easier (this is the End-Times Chat forum), and it saves time for everyone.

helios
Oct 9th 2008, 04:28 AM
I would like you to tell us as well.

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 04:48 AM
OK brethren - This is an excerpt from a thread I've written. Go ahead and beat me for this. :)

Now to explain who Jesus' angel is, is to know what God has in store for some of us. We read of Jesus' angel in Revelation 1:1, 19:10, and 22:8. Revelation 1:1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he (Jesus) sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." Revelation 19:10. "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 22:8-9. "And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

At least for now I just want to bring one more example of God using men He calls angels in the book of Revelation. In Revelation Chapter 14 we see 6 different angels working with God, and I'll just use one verse to show the type work one is shown to do. Revelation 14:6. "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." In future studies we may go into this one just a little. What I am telling you about angels mentioned in Revelation for the most part, is that they are redeemed mankind. I will not be going into a study of created angels other that to show a limited amount of judgment to some of them, and then only to show their relationship and hatred of God's saints if we even go that far in this study.

One last thing we want to know is that the word "angel" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word "aggelos," which has the meaning of "a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God." Even Jesus Himself is referred to as an Angel in Revelation 20:1-2: "And I saw an angel (Jesus) come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand." Only One has the authority to bind Satan and bind him for a thousand years in Verse 2, and that is Jesus Himself. Enough on angels for now, and I hope you can see that it is not mostly created angels that are being dealt with in Revelation, God is dealing with mankind.

Blessings in Jesus' name -

jeffweeder
Oct 9th 2008, 04:49 AM
Your a tease Larry.....................has to Michael then, right.:P:cool::giveup:

jeffweeder
Oct 9th 2008, 05:15 AM
Blah, you posted while i was in the process of posting Larry.

Check this out about Gabriel---;



21 while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering.
22 He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, "O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding.
23 "At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision.

Gabriel is called a man.....strange hey.


Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed[2][Or keep ] the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 05:19 AM
Quoting Jeffweeder - Gabriel is called a man.....strange hey.

Response - Good observation - It surely is something to study - thanks

jeffweeder
Oct 9th 2008, 05:50 AM
Hi Larry

It seems Gabriel had all the experience in showing visions, giving insight and signifying the things of God to man.


The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated[1][Or signified ] it by His angel to His bond-servant John,


When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and behold, standing before me was one who looked like a man.
16 And I heard the voice of a man between the banks of Ulai, and he called out and said, "Gabriel, give this man an understanding of the vision."
17 So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end."


18 Now while he was talking with me, I sank into a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me and made me stand upright.
19 He said, "Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end.

Gabriel definately had a handle on things pertaining to the end.
He is the Angel of redemption -Daniels 70 weeks and his dealings with Mary and Joseph.
This is the only time Gabriel is mentioned.... by name.

markedward
Oct 9th 2008, 06:03 AM
Daniel is the one who describes Gabriel as a "man". This does not mean Gabriel is merely a man. In the ancient days of Genesis, we see three people, and the writer directly calls them "men"; they approach Abraham, and he has no idea that they're really YHWH and two angels.

mdo757
Oct 9th 2008, 09:29 AM
A person studying the bible needs to remember that the words "Messenger-s" has been given the interpretation 'Angel-s." Angel-s are part of the Pagan religions and not a Judaic teaching.

markedward
Oct 9th 2008, 12:42 PM
Even though we see beings of higher elevation than man in both the OT and the NT? It's a bold claim to say angels (the heavenly host) are "pagan" when they are right there in the Bible.

Reynolds357
Oct 9th 2008, 12:49 PM
I hope that the answer of the O.P. is not going to be that the Angel (messenger) is actually Jesus. There are many problems held with that emergingly popular belief.

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 01:19 PM
Go to post # 8 on the first page for an explanation. The angel is of redeemed mankind and a fellow servant. As John bowed to the angel giving him the Revelation, the angel replies:

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Thanks

markedward
Oct 9th 2008, 06:51 PM
Hm. Before, I was somewhat doubtful as to the angel (messenger) being a man - but now I think you raise a good point to be addressed: why would an angel (heavenly being) claim that they are a servant in the "testimony of Jesus", when the gospel does not pertain to the heavenly host?

But, the 'angel' says "I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren". Why not "our brethren" if he really is a part of mankind? So, it is still probably a member of the heavenly host that we are seeing, not an already-redeemed man: even the "servant ... to the testimony of Jesus" can apply to the heavenly host, since they are servants of Jesus, which by definition means all creatures, both man and angel, who serve Christ are "servants ... to the testimony of Jesus".

I think the 'angel' being an actual angel and not a man holds up more.

TexasBeliever
Oct 9th 2008, 09:51 PM
The first thing that came to me is that it is Christ. This is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ, that He gave to His servant John."

And I thought of the "angel" that Jacob wrestled with, who indeed was the Lord.

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 11:43 PM
Again the word "Angel" simply means messenger, and when this angel said he was our brethren, and of the prophets there is only one way to become that, and that is by the blood of the Lamb. The angels we normally think of are created by God; we are born of God.

larry2
Oct 9th 2008, 11:47 PM
Quoting TexasBeliever - I thought of the "angel" that Jacob wrestled with, who indeed was the Lord.

Response- Good point. If you get into a study of the different appearances of Christ, He is the image of God and it is Him we see in dealings with man in most cases - thanks

markedward
Oct 9th 2008, 11:50 PM
Except there's one problem with what you're saying:

The angeldid not say he was a "brother" to John. He said he was a fellow servant with "you and your brethren". The angel is making himself distinct from the "brethren" by calling them John's brethren, not his own.

If I told you that I was a "fellow servant" with "you and your family", I'm clearly making myself distinct from your family. The angel in the Revelation does this same thing that, while he is acknowledging both he and John are Christ's servants, the messenger is separating himself by calling the "brethren" John's brethren. Meaning, the "brethren" of John are not the "brethren" of the angel.

Merton
Oct 10th 2008, 12:07 AM
Except there's one problem with what you're saying:

The angeldid not say he was a "brother" to John. He said he was a fellow servant with "you and your brethren". The angel is making himself distinct from the "brethren" by calling them John's brethren, not his own.

If I told you that I was a "fellow servant" with "you and your family", I'm clearly making myself distinct from your family. The angel in the Revelation does this same thing that, while he is acknowledging both he and John are Christ's servants, the messenger is separating himself by calling the "brethren" John's brethren. Meaning, the "brethren" of John are not the "brethren" of the angel.



Rev 19:10 And2532 I fell4098 at1715 his848 feet4228 to worship4352 him.846 And2532 he said3004 unto me,3427 See3708 thou do it not:3361 I am1510 thy4675 fellow servant,4889 and2532 of thy4675 brethren80 that have2192 the3588 testimony3141 of Jesus:2424 worship4352 God:2316 for1063 the3588 testimony3141 of Jesus2424 is the3588 spirit4151 of prophecy.4394
"I am- of thy brethren"

markedward
Oct 10th 2008, 12:34 AM
Hm. It seems that it depends on which translations we're using. Here's 19:10 in various translations. I tried to group translations that were related, or rooted in other translations.

NIV I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus.

NIRV I am God's servant, just like other believers who hold firmly to what Jesus has taught.

NIVUK I am a fellow- servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus.

TNIV I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to Jesus' testimony.NLT I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers and sisters who testify about their faith in Jesus.

KJV I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:

NKJV I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.

KJ21 I am thy fellow servant and one of thy brethren, who hold to the testimony of Jesus.
NET I am only a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony about Jesus.

ESV I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus.

CEV I am a servant, just like you and everyone else who tells about Jesus.

NCV I am a servant like you and your brothers and sisters who have the message of Jesus.

ASV I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus:

NASB I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus;

Amplified I am [only] another servant with you and your brethren who have [accepted and hold] the testimony borne by Jesus.
YLT fellow servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren, those having the testimony of Jesus;

Darby I am thy fellow-bondman, and [the fellow-bondman] of thy brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.

HCSB I am a fellow slave with you and your brothers who have the testimony about Jesus.

WYC I am a servant with thee [And I fell down before his feet, for to worship him. And he said to me, See, that thou do not; I am thine even-servant], and of thy brethren, having the witnessing of Jesus;

Worldwide English I am only a servant like you and like your brothers who tell about Jesus.

And others. I don't want to throw in too many, then the post would go on forever.

larry2
Oct 10th 2008, 02:37 AM
Dear markedward, that was an endeavor of love and labor. Thank you. Did that influence your opinion as to who the angel is? From your earlier replies you seemingly did not believe he was our brethren.

With that said, how does Revelation 22:9 fit your commitment to that since he claims to be of thy brethren the prophets, and them which keep the sayings of this book?

markedward
Oct 10th 2008, 03:18 AM
I must say, it seems a very compelling point. Some versions seem ambiguous in their translations, a few seem to translate the text as the angel saying he's separate from "you and your brethren", while most do seem to translate the text as the angel saying he's part of "you and your brethren".

mdo757
Oct 10th 2008, 09:44 AM
Even though we see beings of higher elevation than man in both the OT and the NT? It's a bold claim to say angels (the heavenly host) are "pagan" when they are right there in the Bible. I said the word "angel" is not correctly translated. The correct translation is "messenger." Angels are part of the Pagan religions.

mdo757
Oct 10th 2008, 09:49 AM
Hm. Before, I was somewhat doubtful as to the angel (messenger) being a man - but now I think you raise a good point to be addressed: why would an angel (heavenly being) claim that they are a servant in the "testimony of Jesus", when the gospel does not pertain to the heavenly host?

But, the 'angel' says "I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren". Why not "our brethren" if he really is a part of mankind? So, it is still probably a member of the heavenly host that we are seeing, not an already-redeemed man: even the "servant ... to the testimony of Jesus" can apply to the heavenly host, since they are servants of Jesus, which by definition means all creatures, both man and angel, who serve Christ are "servants ... to the testimony of Jesus".

I think the 'angel' being an actual angel and not a man holds up more. A "Messenger" can be a person from the Kingdom of God or a person here on earth.

markedward
Oct 10th 2008, 01:34 PM
I'm fully aware that malak and angelos mean "messenger" and that they can and do often refer to humanly messengers.

But to claim that "angels" as a whole are pagan and that all "messengers" (malak and angelos) are human beings is simply wrong. Unless, of course, you're planning on discrediting most of the Bible, since heavenly beings (i.e., not human) are seen as early as Genesis. So unless you're claiming the Bible is full of lies, or unless you plan on heavy distortion of the text, the Bible does plainly and clearly show a belief of heavenly messengers that are entirely distinct from earthly messengers.

tehmackdaddy
Nov 15th 2012, 05:34 PM
I find the angel's claim in Revelation 1 to be interesting (citing more of the chapter for context, but noting the bolded):




12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30711d)] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30718e)] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

While I agree with what has been posted previously in this thread (that points out the angel is not Jesus), the bolded seems contradictory to this. Would a mere angel make these claims?

Also note that the angel does NOT correct John for worshiping him at this point.

(I stumbled upon this message board when Googling who the angel in Revelation 1 is because I am currently reading Revelation.:wasup:)

Victory
Nov 21st 2018, 04:02 PM
great and important question.....after 55 years of reading revelation I am exploring the possibility that the angel in rev 1:1 is also the elder mentioned in rev 7:13 and is none other then Daniel (go your way because the words are rolled up and sealed until the end). Who is in turn one of the two golden lampstands that are the two lights of prophecy...Old Testament book of Daniel and New Testament book of revelation...i.e. Daniel and John who are the two witnesses (John who never died ("what if he remain until I come") who must prophesy again the things he has just eaten of the little scroll only to be revealed in the end times.....as stated by the angel "worship God for it is the spirit of prophesy that bears witness to Jesus". Check it out and tell us what you think.

ForHisglory
Nov 21st 2018, 04:38 PM
great and important question.....after 55 years of reading revelation I am exploring the possibility that the angel in rev 1:1 is also the elder mentioned in rev 7:13 and is none other then Daniel (go your way because the words are rolled up and sealed until the end). Who is in turn one of the two golden lampstands that are the two lights of prophecy...Old Testament book of Daniel and New Testament book of revelation...i.e. Daniel and John who are the two witnesses (John who never died ("what if he remain until I come") who must prophesy again the things he has just eaten of the little scroll only to be revealed in the end times.....as stated by the angel "worship God for it is the spirit of prophesy that bears witness to Jesus". Check it out and tell us what you think.
The angelin rev 1:1 is simply an angel and not to be confused with Jesus who is seen afterwards, nor the Elder in Rev 7:13.