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Rookie78
Oct 8th 2008, 08:53 PM
America's Golden Calf Is Coming Down
Excerpts from an article by David Wilkerson

". . .Beloved, America is facing God's judgment--and we will never be the same! In the days to come, literally hundreds of thousands of Americans will lose their homes. Why? They've leveraged them with equity loans, so they could play the stock market and try to strike it rich!

I tell you, the stock market has become America's golden calf! People see it as a financial savior, and they worship it daily--trusting in it, depending on it, giving it all their energy and attention. But it's going to fall suddenly--and none of the small, individual investors will be spared. They'll suffer the most, losing their homes, their cars--everything!

I must ask you: "Are you prepared for what is coming? If not, are you acting now to get ready? When I speak of being ready, where do your thoughts take you? Do you think immediately of investments, bank accounts, survival plans, safety for your family?"

Yet, I believe it is much more important today for American Christians to focus on spiritual preparation--before the coming storm hits. Let me tell you why.

I believe that when the coming storm hits with full fury, and the nation is reeling with panic and fear, people will flee all false gospels and feel-good churches. Christians will forget about gospel entertainment and Christian TV, and they'll start demanding hard truth. They'll flock to hear godly pastors, demanding the true Word of God. Their cry will be, "Who will preach to us a prophetic, life-changing word?"

Sadly, many charismatic Christians today talk much about being Spirit-filled--but they are totally bankrupt of truth. They're not intimate with Christ--and so they don't know how to draw on His strength in truth. They don't tremble at the truth of His Word. They don't know how to walk in His resurrection power or live wholly dependent on Him. Instead, they twist, manipulate, and misinterpret His Word to accommodate their flesh.

Many pastors and evangelists today have no interest in seeking the Spirit of truth. They think they can call on the Holy Ghost at any time to come down and sweep away all the powers of hell. But these people won't be prepared for the dark times that are coming?

The only manifestations we'll see when the storm hits will be men and women falling to their knees in awe and fear of God. They'll be slain by the piercing, convicting, soul-cleansing preaching that comes from the Spirit of truth.

Indeed, today--while most of America focuses on its prosperity--God is waking a holy remnant in the church. These saints are on their faces, seeking Him with all their strength and crying out for a true Word from the Spirit of truth.

In recent months, our ministry has received hundreds of letters from pastors and believers who are repulsed by most of what they see in the church: hype, foolishness, entertainment, shallow preaching. They're crying out, "Enough! We're tired of seeing our pastors go to conventions and return only to introduce come new gimmick. We're sick of seeing the flesh accommodated. We're hungry for truth! We want to hear preaching that convicts us and challenges us to holiness and prayer."

Believer, you can rest assured--in the coming days of calamity, the true revival won't come through showboating, big-time preachers or TV evangelists. It won't come through prosperity teachings or other doctrines of false security. No--God's revival will come through a hidden company of pastors and lay people who have been in the school of Christ, learning His ways and trusting in Him. These will lead a revival of truth!

Yet not everyone is going to want truth. Many will turn to unbridled lust. Indeed, our society could see Sodom replayed a hundred times over. But, as our nation poises on the brink of chaos, many Americans will begin to seek truth, answers, life.

As for me, I want to face the coming times as " . . . a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth" II Timothy 2:15

I urge you: Ask the Lord to prepare you--His way--for the day "America's golden calf" comes down. Seek His Spirit of truth in your secret closet. Learn to recognize His voice above all the worldly clamor going on in His church. Then you'll truly be prepared to face the coming storm.

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=306



Is the stock market America's Golden Calf? Is it wrong to invest in the stock market from a Christian perspective? Is it another form of gambling?

Literalist-Luke
Oct 8th 2008, 09:04 PM
I would certainly agree that our handling of the economy and the stock market in particular have been most unwise, but to go to the extent of calling the stock market a "golden calf" is going a little too far. The problem with the golden calf in Exodus was that the Hebrews were attributing to the golden calf things that had been done by "I Am that I Am", Yahweh.

Exodus 32:4 - "These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt."

The Hebrews were pretending that this golden calf was responsible for delivering them from the Egyptians, definitely an act of blatant rebellion against the one true God.

Whether or not the stock market would be considered "gambling" is a matter of opinion. The idea behind going into a casino and playing the various games they have there is that you are most likely going to lose your money. Most of the time, that is not the case with the stock market. The number of days where the Dow Jones has gone up far outnumber the days where it's fallen.

If you do consider it "gambling", why weren't you posting this months ago when the Dow Jones was still going higher and higher?

cwb
Oct 8th 2008, 09:18 PM
Though I am not investing in the stock market at this time, I definetly would not even consider judging any Christian who does. I think your judgemental attitude and calling anybody in the stock market an idolator is way over the top.

Partaker of Christ
Oct 8th 2008, 09:27 PM
Whilst I can see much of what is said, could well be so. I have to say that the 'world' is bigger then America. It is a 'world wide golden calf'

[quote]
Yet, I believe it is much more important today for American Christians to focus on spiritual preparation--before the coming storm hits. Let me tell you why.[quote/]

Why just American Christians?
Also should it not be: Christians in America

[quote]
Indeed, today--while most of America focuses on its prosperity--God is waking a holy remnant in the church. These saints are on their faces, seeking Him with all their strength and crying out for a true Word from the Spirit of truth.[quote/]

Would this 'holy remnant' who are on their faces, seeking Him with all their strength and crying out for a true Word from the Spirit of truth, would it only be in America?

[quote]
Yet not everyone is going to want truth. Many will turn to unbridled lust. Indeed, our society could see Sodom replayed a hundred times over. But, as our nation poises on the brink of chaos, many Americans will begin to seek truth, answers, life
[quote/]

Rookie78
Oct 8th 2008, 09:33 PM
Though I am not investing in the stock market at this time, I definetly would not even consider judging any Christian who does. I think your judgemental attitude and calling anybody in the stock market an idolator is way over the top.

I am new to this forum so it is a pleasure to meet you all.

I am not judging anyone in the stock market. I merely found the excerpt, thought it was interesting and decided to post it to see what other's thoughts were.

I myself am invested in the stock market, but only through retirement accounts for the time being.

Kahtar
Oct 8th 2008, 09:41 PM
CWB - are you talking to David Wilkerson, or the OP? The OP didn't call anyone an idolater.

Partaker - Since David W. wrote the book to Americans, for Americans, I see no problem with his focusing upon American Christians. That said, the same would apply to Christians worldwide, since this is a worldwide problem.

I think the point of D.W.'s article is to urge us to focus on Christ, and place our trust in Him, rather than the stock market. I certainly don't see anything wrong with that concept. What WILL people do when the collapse occurs? It would be better to practice trusting God for ALL things now, rather than wait till you're in the swamp to call for a pole.

cwb
Oct 8th 2008, 09:48 PM
I am new to this forum so it is a pleasure to meet you all.

I am not judging anyone in the stock market. I merely found the excerpt, thought it was interesting and decided to post it to see what other's thoughts were.

I myself am invested in the stock market, but only through retirement accounts for the time being.

o.k., I'm sorry. I did not notice that the article you posted was written by someone else. I do feel that the writer of the article should not make a blanket statement like he did and imply that everybody who has anything to do with the stock market is an idolator and making wall street their financial savior. I do not deny there are people who have made the market their god. However, I would venture to say there are also God worshipping Christians who make money in the stock market and use that money to help the poor and spread the gospel.

As far as it being gambling, again, I do not think you can make a blanket statement here either. Some people who have no idea what they are doing are gambling. Others who know what they are doing and have a good understanding of how the market and economy works are not gambling.

cwb
Oct 8th 2008, 09:56 PM
CWB - are you talking to David Wilkerson, or the OP? The OP didn't call anyone an idolater.

.

I did not realize the article was talking written by David Wilkerson. Again I apologize for that.




I think the point of D.W.'s article is to urge us to focus on Christ, and place our trust in Him, rather than the stock market.


Sure but why single out the stock market. If somebody puts their trust in their job (whatever job that is) isn't that the same thing? I just felt it was wrong to lump any person who might trade in the stock market in the same camp - as an idolator.

Kahtar
Oct 8th 2008, 10:59 PM
Sure but why single out the stock market. If somebody puts their trust in their job (whatever job that is) isn't that the same thing? I just felt it was wrong to lump any person who might trade in the stock market in the same camp - as an idolator.Certainly the lumping is not good. I think people can trust in God as they invest in the stock market, or trust God in their work, etc. These things don't make one an idolator.

But, if a person trusts in their job, their skills, their giftings, the stock market, or their government check and foodstamps INSTEAD of God, they are going to run into big trouble.

But, amazingly, when people run out of all other means, when they have nowhere else to go, noone else to turn to, they turn to God. He's always the LAST option. Should be the first.

cwb
Oct 9th 2008, 03:33 AM
Certainly the lumping is not good. I think people can trust in God as they invest in the stock market, or trust God in their work, etc. These things don't make one an idolator.

But, if a person trusts in their job, their skills, their giftings, the stock market, or their government check and foodstamps INSTEAD of God, they are going to run into big trouble.

But, amazingly, when people run out of all other means, when they have nowhere else to go, noone else to turn to, they turn to God. He's always the LAST option. Should be the first.

I definitely agree. God should always be the first place we go - not our last resort.

MLC
Oct 9th 2008, 08:16 AM
I do feel that the writer of the article should not make a blanket statement like he did and imply that everybody who has anything to do with the stock market is an idolator and making wall street their financial savior.

With all due respect CWB, I don't feel like David Wilkerson said that at all. Just because he says, "America", does not mean that he is pointing out every single American who participates in the stock market, but he is referring to America overall, and I believe America is guilty of this.



I would certainly agree that our handling of the economy and the stock market in particular have been most unwise, but to go to the extent of calling the stock market a "golden calf" is going a little too far. The problem with the golden calf in Exodus was that the Hebrews were attributing to the golden calf things that had been done by "I Am that I Am", Yahweh.

In my opinion Luke, I would say how is that different than our current situation? Who is responsible for the blessings our nation has received? the prosperity and financial and material riches we possess? It is "I Am that I Am", but we did not credit Him, we credit our economy for making us rich and powerful. We attribute the golden calf (the stock market).

And Partaker, I would agree with Kahtar, he is specifically targeting Americans for this message, so even though it may be true for others, (though I think his message is more true of Americans, compared to other nationalities, since he is referring to the American economy) just as past writers, such as Paul in the epistles, he is pointing out a certain group of people for whom the message is particularly pertinent.

And when it comes to gambling, it is a tough question to answer. You can say like CWB said...


Others who know what they are doing and have a good understanding of how the market and economy works are not gambling.

And that is a valid point, but under the same definition you could say betting on sports teams isn't gambling because you have a good understanding of sports, ect..., and what the outcome will be. I would say it is more where your heart is when you do it, though it is definitely a complicated issue.

Rookie78
Oct 9th 2008, 01:08 PM
Depending on the situation, I do not feel that it is a form of gambling, at least not a form of sinful gambling. The main motivator of gambling is greed which we are warned against. If someone invests slowly over time, the main goal is to build up money, yes, but this is not any kind of get rich quick scheme.

There are some who are so obsessed with gambling that they risk their own emergency money, child college fund, etc. just to make a quick buck. Most definitely this kind of gambling is sinful.

moonglow
Oct 9th 2008, 01:51 PM
The way I see it is the ones suffering the most weren't the ones that got us into this mess to start with...so why are they being blamed for it? My heart goes out to those that have lost and will lose their homes...


God bless

MLC
Oct 9th 2008, 06:09 PM
Well, actually, I would say the ones suffering (from losing their homes) are the ones that got us into this mess, (though there are of course exceptions) they are the ones that irresponsibly bought homes that they couldn't afford, which is the root of most of the economic crisis right now. Don't get me wrong, I do feel sympathy for them, but they brought it upon themselves. There are plenty of people out there that didn't buy more than they could afford. They may have wanted a larger house, but they knew that it was too expensive. They were responsible, and they are now the ones who can keep their houses. Now through all of this God is going to bring the god of America down, so we will have no choice but to rely on God.

*Hope*
Oct 9th 2008, 06:27 PM
The reason America is in the situation it is in is because of greed, selfishness, lack of self-control and an overall turning away from God (and/or Judeo-Christian values). When we began to move away from our foundation (especially in our beliefs regarding origins), our culture lost it's value in human life and has resulted in a materialistic, naturalistic, nihilistic society in general.

quiet dove
Oct 9th 2008, 06:29 PM
Well, actually, I would say the ones suffering (from losing their homes) are the ones that got us into this mess, (though there are of course exceptions) they are the ones that irresponsibly bought homes that they couldn't afford, which is the root of most of the economic crisis right now. Don't get me wrong, I do feel sympathy for them, but they brought it upon themselves. There are plenty of people out there that didn't buy more than they could afford. They may have wanted a larger house, but they knew that it was too expensive. They were responsible, and they are now the ones who can keep their houses. Now through all of this God is going to bring the god of America down, so we will have no choice but to rely on God.

Though I do agree to a point, what you are not considering, is, even if a persons job would afford them a home today, when/if that job goes away, like has happened with so many, the home also goes with it, many times anyway.

Biblically speaking, we should be, as individuals, striving to be out of dept, that includes the home, in which case, most of us cannot afford the home we really want.

Kahtar
Oct 9th 2008, 06:50 PM
The real root of the problem (along with greed and corruption) is we have kicked God out of our schools, our workplaces, our public squares and our government. When He goes, so does His protection and provision.

moonglow
Oct 9th 2008, 08:05 PM
The real root of the problem (along with greed and corruption) is we have kicked God out of our schools, our workplaces, our public squares and our government. When He goes, so does His protection and provision.

I don't know though Kahtar...I mean wasn't prayer still allowed in school when the Great Depression hit? And more then likely allowed in the work place, public squares and our government? The Supreme Court still opens with prayer too. I don't know if we can say this is because God is excluded openly in certain places when He wasn't in the GD and that was much, much worse.


Just a thought.

God bless

Reynolds357
Oct 9th 2008, 08:27 PM
America's Golden Calf Is Coming Down

Excerpts from an article by David Wilkerson


". . .Beloved, America is facing God's judgment--and we will never be the same! In the days to come, literally hundreds of thousands of Americans will lose their homes. Why? They've leveraged them with equity loans, so they could play the stock market and try to strike it rich!



I tell you, the stock market has become America's golden calf! People see it as a financial savior, and they worship it daily--trusting in it, depending on it, giving it all their energy and attention. But it's going to fall suddenly--and none of the small, individual investors will be spared. They'll suffer the most, losing their homes, their cars--everything!


I must ask you: "Are you prepared for what is coming? If not, are you acting now to get ready? When I speak of being ready, where do your thoughts take you? Do you think immediately of investments, bank accounts, survival plans, safety for your family?"


Yet, I believe it is much more important today for American Christians to focus on spiritual preparation--before the coming storm hits. Let me tell you why.


I believe that when the coming storm hits with full fury, and the nation is reeling with panic and fear, people will flee all false gospels and feel-good churches. Christians will forget about gospel entertainment and Christian TV, and they'll start demanding hard truth. They'll flock to hear godly pastors, demanding the true Word of God. Their cry will be, "Who will preach to us a prophetic, life-changing word?"


Sadly, many charismatic Christians today talk much about being Spirit-filled--but they are totally bankrupt of truth. They're not intimate with Christ--and so they don't know how to draw on His strength in truth. They don't tremble at the truth of His Word. They don't know how to walk in His resurrection power or live wholly dependent on Him. Instead, they twist, manipulate, and misinterpret His Word to accommodate their flesh.


Many pastors and evangelists today have no interest in seeking the Spirit of truth. They think they can call on the Holy Ghost at any time to come down and sweep away all the powers of hell. But these people won't be prepared for the dark times that are coming?


The only manifestations we'll see when the storm hits will be men and women falling to their knees in awe and fear of God. They'll be slain by the piercing, convicting, soul-cleansing preaching that comes from the Spirit of truth.


Indeed, today--while most of America focuses on its prosperity--God is waking a holy remnant in the church. These saints are on their faces, seeking Him with all their strength and crying out for a true Word from the Spirit of truth.


In recent months, our ministry has received hundreds of letters from pastors and believers who are repulsed by most of what they see in the church: hype, foolishness, entertainment, shallow preaching. They're crying out, "Enough! We're tired of seeing our pastors go to conventions and return only to introduce come new gimmick. We're sick of seeing the flesh accommodated. We're hungry for truth! We want to hear preaching that convicts us and challenges us to holiness and prayer."


Believer, you can rest assured--in the coming days of calamity, the true revival won't come through showboating, big-time preachers or TV evangelists. It won't come through prosperity teachings or other doctrines of false security. No--God's revival will come through a hidden company of pastors and lay people who have been in the school of Christ, learning His ways and trusting in Him. These will lead a revival of truth!


Yet not everyone is going to want truth. Many will turn to unbridled lust. Indeed, our society could see Sodom replayed a hundred times over. But, as our nation poises on the brink of chaos, many Americans will begin to seek truth, answers, life.


As for me, I want to face the coming times as " . . . a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth" II Timothy 2:15


I urge you: Ask the Lord to prepare you--His way--for the day "America's golden calf" comes down. Seek His Spirit of truth in your secret closet. Learn to recognize His voice above all the worldly clamor going on in His church. Then you'll truly be prepared to face the coming storm.

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=306



Is the stock market America's Golden Calf? Is it wrong to invest in the stock market from a Christian perspective? Is it another form of gambling?



I thought B. Hussein Obama was America's Golden Calf.

Kahtar
Oct 9th 2008, 08:41 PM
I thought B. Hussein Obama was America's Golden Calf.No, no. That would be 'Golden Boy'. :D

Kahtar
Oct 9th 2008, 08:43 PM
I don't know though Kahtar...I mean wasn't prayer still allowed in school when the Great Depression hit? And more then likely allowed in the work place, public squares and our government? The Supreme Court still opens with prayer too. I don't know if we can say this is because God is excluded openly in certain places when He wasn't in the GD and that was much, much worse.

Just a thought.

God blessGood thought. Whether the GD was much worse or not remains to be seen. We were able to come out of the GD, though. Sin and corruption certainly existed then, but God's hand was still on this country. Now we have corruption and sin, and God is kicked out, so, we'll see..........

MLC
Oct 9th 2008, 11:10 PM
Though I do agree to a point, what you are not considering, is, even if a persons job would afford them a home today, when/if that job goes away, like has happened with so many, the home also goes with it, many times anyway.

I understand, but that is why I said there are exceptions. There are also people who have been injured, and so on, but they are not the norm. I live in Florida, probably the hardest hit state, and it isn't uncommon to see a house foreclosed on, but the truth is that the good majority of the time (at least right now, in the future i could see this changing) it isn't due to the residents losing their jobs or being injured, they simply moved into houses that they couldn't afford.


Biblically speaking, we should be, as individuals, striving to be out of dept, that includes the home, in which case, most of us cannot afford the home we really want.

I completely agree, you can't always afford what you want, so be satisfied with what you have the money for, since it is probably better than what 97% of the world's population has. When you aren't satisfied, what it is, is greed, as some others on this thread have mentioned.

daughter
Mar 7th 2009, 04:23 PM
Guys, I saw a picture today that really chilled me, and thought I should post it here... it seems to me that there was prophecy in the article originally quoted. Many "Christians" even are deceived.

Christians praying at wall street, laying hands on the statue of the bull...

We should pray, all of us, for America, whether we're in the US or not... for the remnant that are not deceived, and for God to take His people out of idolatry and deception.

Please God, bless your people, and open their eyes. :cry:

http://celticwander.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/wwms-what-would-moses-say/

RevLogos
Mar 7th 2009, 04:53 PM
Guys, I saw a picture today that really chilled me, and thought I should post it here... it seems to me that there was prophecy in the article originally quoted. Many "Christians" even are deceived.

Christians praying at wall street, laying hands on the statue of the bull...

We should pray, all of us, for America, whether we're in the US or not... for the remnant that are not deceived, and for God to take His people out of idolatry and deception.

Please God, bless your people, and open their eyes. :cry:

http://celticwander.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/wwms-what-would-moses-say/


Wow! Our very own Golden Calf. How long has that been there? For that matter, how long has the great Falling Away been in progress? So many have fallen away it is indeed just a remnant left.

Throughout the OT when the people would fall away the wrath of God would come. Not like Sodom and Gomorrah, but in the form of famines and locusts.

Read Joel 1:9-13, this whole section is important. The people no longer bring their firstfruits to the Lord. As a result, disasters strike. Presenting firstfruits as an offering is a sign of trust in the Lord. They have no trust. And they are eventually punished by destruction of crops. The same thing is happening now.

Pray that these lost souls will be drawn to the true light. Witness at every opportunity.

daughter
Mar 7th 2009, 05:01 PM
I think that it was originally put there by an artist who designed it to remind people that power could be fierce and animalistic, and that we should be careful not to become mad bulls. It was supposed to be a warning about the responsibilities of power.

Symbolically, it's very disturbing, don't you think? That Christians, in the one country in the world that still says "in God we trust" should do a thing like this?

Rookie78
Mar 7th 2009, 05:11 PM
Guys, I saw a picture today that really chilled me, and thought I should post it here... it seems to me that there was prophecy in the article originally quoted. Many "Christians" even are deceived.

Christians praying at wall street, laying hands on the statue of the bull...

We should pray, all of us, for America, whether we're in the US or not... for the remnant that are not deceived, and for God to take His people out of idolatry and deception.

Please God, bless your people, and open their eyes. :cry:

http://celticwander.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/wwms-what-would-moses-say/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charging_Bull_at_Bowling_Green_060621.jpghttp ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charging_Bull_at_Bowling_Green_060621.jpg

I also did not know that there was a bull/calf there. Apparently its been there since after the 1987 stock market crash and cost roughly $360,000 to make.

These "christians" give God a bad name.

daughter
Mar 7th 2009, 05:15 PM
It is terrifying. As an ex witch I know exactly what they are doing... they use the idol as a focal point for their spell, they raise energy, they even danced around it, circling it three times while singing. These are all things you would see happening in a coven. They prayed "God bless America," but I wish I knew what God they were praying to.

The whole thing is horrifying. I must admit, when I saw this picture, my blood ran cold. We're definitely in the midst of the great falling away.

quiet dove
Mar 7th 2009, 05:24 PM
The whole thing is horrifying. I must admit, when I saw this picture, my blood ran cold. We're definitely in the midst of the great falling away.

I was trying to figure out how to word how I felt when I looked at the picture, and you said it here, "my blood ran cold".

daughter
Mar 7th 2009, 05:36 PM
My son went white, then red, then let out a panicked laugh, ran to the bathroom, saying he thought he was going to be sick.

It's a terrible thing for people to be given over to their own uncleanness and lust. I hope that when they saw the picture themselves some were shocked. Some of them may repent.

Surely nobody who read the Bible daily and sought God in prayer could ever fall prey to such apostasy?

RevLogos
Mar 7th 2009, 06:03 PM
I think that Christians have embedded within them - within their spirit and given by the Holy Spirit, profound images that we may not even be consciously aware of. But when we see it, as you say our blood runs cold because we KNOW it is from Satan. It is one of the tools of discernment the Holy Spirit gives us.

Its like when you see certain things, or read certain things, the Holy Spirit whacks you upside the head in a powerful way and says "You know what this is don't you?"

Your son sees with great clarity.

daughter
Mar 7th 2009, 06:06 PM
He does... he is twelve, and often he sees things more clearly than I do. I don't know many born again Christian kids... but the ones I do know take their faith very simply, and feel it in a profound and deep way that I can only aspire to.

dan
Mar 7th 2009, 11:11 PM
Though I am not investing in the stock market at this time, I definetly would not even consider judging any Christian who does. I think your judgemental attitude and calling anybody in the stock market an idolator is way over the top.

...The stock market is the reason many of us have jobs to begin with.

It is the reason that we were able to defeat the evil Soviet Union.

This reviled entity is the reason that we are rich enough to be a nation that "brings forth the fruits".

MT 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

And now, all that will be destroyed. It has begun.

HisLeast
Mar 7th 2009, 11:17 PM
And now, all that will be destroyed. It has begun.

Its a testament to the unbelievably epic bull market we came out of to think that a large correction, even a large recession is the end.

JesusMySavior
Mar 8th 2009, 03:24 AM
I personally don't think it's wise to sow into the world.

When you cut away all of the fancy ribbons and bows, the naked stock market is basically that.

Beloved, let us rather trust in God's riches by sowing into the Kingdom.


1 Timothy 6:17 : "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy."


1 Timothy 6:9-10 : " But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

dan
Mar 11th 2009, 04:56 AM
I personally don't think it's wise to sow into the world.

When you cut away all of the fancy ribbons and bows, the naked stock market is basically that.

Beloved, let us rather trust in God's riches by sowing into the Kingdom.

1 Timothy 6:17 : "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy."

1 Timothy 6:9-10 : " But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

...The riches provided allowed us to keep the evil Soviet System at bay. Now they will flourish, and with disastrous results. Here is our tribulation!

Not wise? It was the only course possible!

The love of money IS the root of all kinds of evil. Unfortunately, money is, also, the source of all kinds of good!

trance750
Mar 11th 2009, 05:02 AM
I think the 'Golden Calf' (personally) is Celebrity Worship. I mean millions of dollars are spent every week on tabloids, with people looking to get the scoop on their favorite celeberties, and countless hours of watching shows like Access Hollywood.

Now I don't have an issue with celebrities... just the way they are placed on an alter, to be admired and adored.

daughter
Mar 11th 2009, 11:55 AM
...The riches provided allowed us to keep the evil Soviet System at bay. Now they will flourish, and with disastrous results. Here is our tribulation!

Not wise? It was the only course possible!

The love of money IS the root of all kinds of evil. Unfortunately, money is, also, the source of all kinds of good!
A slight correction. There is only one source of good, and that is Jesus. Money is a conduit through which good can flow, but it's not the source of good.

Other than that, I take your point.

wombat
Mar 12th 2009, 06:33 AM
Guys, I saw a picture today that really chilled me, and thought I should post it here... it seems to me that there was prophecy in the article originally quoted. Many "Christians" even are deceived. Christians praying at wall street, laying hands on the statue of the bull
Daughter, that is a very disturbing image indeed! From reading some of the responses to your post, I see I'm not the only one who didn't know this bull existed. Thank you for posting this--it is an eye-opener!

trance750
Mar 12th 2009, 06:39 AM
It is terrifying. As an ex witch I know exactly what they are doing... they use the idol as a focal point for their spell, they raise energy, they even danced around it, circling it three times while singing. These are all things you would see happening in a coven. They prayed "God bless America," but I wish I knew what God they were praying to.

The whole thing is horrifying. I must admit, when I saw this picture, my blood ran cold. We're definitely in the midst of the great falling away.

One of my friends is a Wicca, and she is convinced that everybody will go to Heaven, regardless of what and as she put it, in her own words 'No loving God will ever send a person to hell'.

I have tried to talk with her then she gets mad and accuses me of being 'intolerant' of her beliefs.

daughter
Mar 12th 2009, 07:35 AM
Just pray for her. Sometimes God will give you an opportunity to speak to her, sometimes He'll give others an opportunity to speak to her... the rest is between Him and her.

One of the defining moments before I became Christian was when a preacher I was playing online chess with told me that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, and every tongue confess..." My husband (an atheist) asked me "what did the God freak say?" And I blurted it out.

At which my husband went very quiet, looked away for a bit, then said the single strangest thing I ever heard him say: "I'm glad."

God is glorious... and powerful, and mighty to save. She's kicking against the knowledge of her own sin, so she won't accept that for there to be a heaven there has to be a hell. But give it to God, and wait on Him. See what He does about it.

dan
Mar 23rd 2009, 01:45 AM
A slight correction. There is only one source of good, and that is Jesus. Money is a conduit through which good can flow, but it's not the source of good.

Other than that, I take your point.

...Right, in a way. But, perhaps, money is a tool, like a gun. Whether it is good or evil depends on the purpose of the one who wields it.

And why would you call Jesus good if He would not describe Himself that way?

MK 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Is it because He is better than all of us?

wombat
Mar 25th 2009, 02:59 AM
And why would you call Jesus good if He would not describe Himself that way?

MK 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Is it because He is better than all of us?
Hi, Dan--Jesus is indeed good because He is God, and yes He is most definitely better than all of us. He was the only sinless, perfect man to ever have existed, which is why He was the only possible sacrifice to save mankind. He was the Word made flesh, both God and man at once.

danield
Mar 25th 2009, 03:12 AM
I just wanted to post a note to say that David Wilkerson is a fine man of God. I heard him speak as a child and he touched me way back then. I do wish him the very best in all his ministries.

David Taylor
Mar 26th 2009, 07:28 PM
And why would you call Jesus good if He would not describe Himself that way?

MK 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.



Jesus wasn't really saying that He wasn't good.
He was simply making a point.

For his audience to focus on the Father in Heaven, not on themselves in regards to righteousness.

dan
Mar 26th 2009, 07:41 PM
Jesus wasn't really saying that He wasn't good.
He was simply making a point.

For his audience to focus on the Father in Heaven, not on themselves in regards to righteousness.

...Sounds very right!

MT 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
MT 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Searcher1
Mar 26th 2009, 07:54 PM
I personally don't think it's wise to sow into the world.



So I take it you don't have 401K plan at work? Which is invested in the stock market.

manichunter
Mar 26th 2009, 10:28 PM
The churches golden calves sometimes be the large mega structures we build called churches at the expense of not meeting the needs of our poor and hungry saints.