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hunterj1
Oct 9th 2008, 12:16 AM
Will Hell be worse for the false Christians (I mean people who call themselves Christians but do things like commit adultery and don't repent) than the people who just don't believe? If so how do you think it will be worse?

lendtay
Oct 9th 2008, 12:40 AM
I think there will be different levels of punishment in Hell. I was reading about this in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Christ".

I don't really know about false Christians. I won't presume to know how God will punish them, or how he will deal with them at all. But the people I consider to be the most false Christians of all, are those who use the name of God simply to make money for themselves. Some of these people infiltrate churches quickly and cause division amongst its ranks. Then, there are people who go on television and do false healing and ask for money. But I leave it up to God to judge them.

Emanate
Oct 9th 2008, 12:49 AM
I think there will be different levels of punishment in Hell. I was reading about this in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Christ".

Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is Separation

paradiseinn
Oct 9th 2008, 01:07 AM
Hell may be the same for everybody. I would tend to think they would be feeling very ashamed though, for using His name to do evil. Also for the abuse of his grace, which i have been guilty of before.(abuse of grace)
this was just my opinion though.
GOD bless friends

cdo
Oct 9th 2008, 04:05 AM
Will Hell be worse for the false Christians (I mean people who call themselves Christians but do things like commit adultery and don't repent) than the people who just don't believe? If so how do you think it will be worse?

I surely and would not choose what would be worst between these two you have mentioned but,It says in God's word that Judgement begins first in the Church ( as in,the shepherds of God's people). He also speaks on (our works do follow us). And remember God is no respector of man.

MLC
Oct 9th 2008, 08:51 AM
In my opinion you will simply be separated from God, completely void of his presence. No lesser or greater separation from person to person, just complete separation. But as mere humans we have no idea of such things, so we leave it up to God since he will deal with them perfectly.

daughter
Oct 9th 2008, 08:58 AM
Check out Matthew 24:45-51

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This doesn't necessarily mean that all Christians are considered "rulers over his household", but it does seem to suggest that there are degrees of hell.

And then there is this in Luke...

And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

9Marksfan
Oct 9th 2008, 12:16 PM
And then there is this in Luke...

And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Good point, Mary - there's also this passage:-

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation! Matt 23:14 NKJV

And in case anyone says "but that verse isn't in my bible, so it must have been added", check this passage out:-

The He said to them in His teaching, "Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplace, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at the feasts, who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive a greater condemnation." Mk 12:40 NKJV

Same idea here:-

Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.” Matt 11:20-24 NKJV

This clearly shows that those who hear the gospel and refuse to repent will actually receive greater condemnation than Sodom and Gomorrah in all their wickedness! Tie that in with the previous passages that speak of the fate of the hypocritical Jewish leaders and you'll have an idea about what lies in store for those who profess to have known Christ and have been hypocrites all along...

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 2 Pet 2:20-21 NKJV

What Peter is saying is that it would have been better for them never to have known the gospel - they were already condemned and going to hell before they did - but to have known it and professed faith (falsely) and cleaned up their act to some extent - and then gone back to wallowing in their sin - they will receive GREATER condemnation for doing that. Jesus teaches this as well:-

Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Lk 11:26 NKJV

...ie when he was originally demon-possessed. How dreadful.....

As the old divines used to say, the greatest wickedness is to have spiritual light in the head but a love of sin in the heart......:cry:

daughter
Oct 9th 2008, 01:42 PM
I absolutely love the way Scripture is so clear and answers these questions so authoratively. Those passages leave no room for doubt.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 9th 2008, 02:48 PM
Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is SeparationThe evidence in Scripture comes from Revelation 20:12-15 -

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and everyone was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. All whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire."

Considering that every single person at this judgment appears to be destined for the Lake of Fire, what need would there be to consult "books"? Unless it were to determine the degree of punishment to be meted out to them.

Emanate
Oct 9th 2008, 03:17 PM
All I see in "greater condemnation" is the matter of self righteousness. If Billy the sinner down the street who cares not about God is condemned to hell then he is condemned to hell.

Harlan lives on the other side of the street and is very familiar with the bible. He has set up his own system of rightoeousness based on what the bible says and lives his life so that others may revel in his self righteousness. He truly thought he was Chosen by God yet he denied the Salvation that was sent for him. When he is condemned is his condemnation not greater?

Will Harlan be in the hotter room while Billy is in the not as hot room? Or is it the fact that Harlan's condmnation is greater because he missed his time of visitation?

keck553
Oct 9th 2008, 03:20 PM
I don't remember reading this specifically in Scripture, but it seems to me those who reject Messiah in life will reject Him afterwards.

We must love each other as we love God. If you disregard your neighbor, you have to realize Jesus gave His life for your neighbor becuase He loves him/her. If we can't give a little bit of ourselves to our neighbor whom Christ gave His life for, then we need to inspect ourselves and meditate whether we truely love God.

But I do know what Scripture says about those who heal and prophecy in His name who haven't recognized to the depths of their being Jesus is their only hope and humbly submit to His loving grace.

Luk 13:26 "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luk 13:27 and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'

Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

God created man to have relationship with man. Jesus, who is fully God died to restore the relationship Adam and Eve threw down in thier pride. That's how important relationship is to Him. That's how important relationship with each other and with God has to be. We can not use the atonement of Jesus as an excuse to practice lawlessness; not loving God and our neighbor. Not only did He pay our sin debt, but He carried our sin away as far as east is from west.

If we fail to allow Him to come into us and renew our minds and write His love on our hearts, how can He say "I knew you?"

theBelovedDisciple
Oct 9th 2008, 08:11 PM
Will Hell be worse for the false Christians (I mean people who call themselves Christians but do things like commit adultery and don't repent) than the people who just don't believe? If so how do you think it will be worse?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

as to adultery...

Jesus Himself said that if man or woman looks upon the opposite sex with a lustful 'eye' that he/she had committed adultery already in their heart..... you didnt even have to go thru the act.. but just looking upon another with lustful intent is considered 'adultery' according to Jesus's Words... the issue starts in the 'heart'.. as it does with covetousness, murder, idolatry, evil thoughts, murders, thefts...etc...

Today I see alot of so called 'christians' who don't commit adultery (the act) but their heart is full of greed, idolatry, covetousness.. this is no worse than the act of adultery or looking upon another 'lustfully'...

One would have to ask yourself.. are my eyes 'PURE'? am I like Job who made a covenant with himself ''not to look upon a another woman"' with
carnal intent?

Adultery starts in the heart.. and its played out in the eyes.. One does not have to go thru the actual act to have a 'heart' full of adultery...

God knows whats in your heart and its intentions.. evne though you may not think He doesnt 'know'... He knows......

there is coming a day when God shall 'judge' the 'secrets' of men/women/ children's hearts.. thru His Son Jesus the Christ.

I believe there are different parts of 'hell'... outer darkness,, also the part where the worm dieth not and the flame is never quenched.. a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth..

but in the end.. hell itself will be delivered up and its contents.. 'the unbelievers or 'damned' ; and these and 'hell' itself will be cast into the Lake of Fire .. for this is the Second Death... that is Total Separation from God... and its Eternal..

It won't be 'one' sin without repentance...that will put people in hell or the final abode.. the Lake of Fire.. but it will be a rebellious heart that has refused the Grace of God .. that has appeared unto men in these last days... that is the person of Jesus the Christ.. who is God manifest in the flesh..


Good and upright is the LORD.....therefore WILL He teach sinners in the way... Psalm 25:8

SIG
Oct 9th 2008, 10:11 PM
For me, if there is a difference in levels of punishment, it is the difference between being held underwater for one hour, or two...

Lamplighter
Oct 10th 2008, 01:34 AM
Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is Separation

If rewards in the Kingdom of Christ, and punishments in the pits of Hell are all the same, then why is there a need for Christ to judge all mankind? What is the great white throne judgment for? What is the judgment seat of Christ for?

If there are not degrees of reward or punishment for a man's deeds, then why does Christ judge them at all?

Do we as humans judge people who speed down the highway, the same as we judge people who rape and murder? No.

Christ is even more just then any man is, so he gives out perfect just rewards and perfect just punishments for all of mankind in the afterlife.

Marc B
Oct 10th 2008, 04:00 AM
The evidence in Scripture comes from Revelation 20:12-15 -

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and everyone was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. All whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire."

Considering that every single person at this judgment appears to be destined for the Lake of Fire, what need would there be to consult "books"? Unless it were to determine the degree of punishment to be meted out to them.

That's the problem with too little information to go on. It's easy to come to a wrong conclusion without more scripture to draw from isn't it? :2cents:

The Preacher
Oct 10th 2008, 04:04 AM
Will Hell be worse for the false Christians (I mean people who call themselves Christians but do things like commit adultery and don't repent) than the people who just don't believe? If so how do you think it will be worse?


Luke 12:47-48

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

9Marksfan
Oct 10th 2008, 10:11 AM
The evidence in Scripture comes from Revelation 20:12-15 -

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and everyone was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. All whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire."

Considering that every single person at this judgment appears to be destined for the Lake of Fire, what need would there be to consult "books"? Unless it were to determine the degree of punishment to be meted out to them.

Brilliant point - had never seen that in the passage before, but it's there - "judged according to what they had done".

9Marksfan
Oct 10th 2008, 10:13 AM
All I see in "greater condemnation" is the matter of self righteousness. If Billy the sinner down the street who cares not about God is condemned to hell then he is condemned to hell.

Harlan lives on the other side of the street and is very familiar with the bible. He has set up his own system of rightoeousness based on what the bible says and lives his life so that others may revel in his self righteousness. He truly thought he was Chosen by God yet he denied the Salvation that was sent for him. When he is condemned is his condemnation not greater?

Will Harlan be in the hotter room while Billy is in the not as hot room? Or is it the fact that Harlan's condmnation is greater because he missed his time of visitation?

Can't both be true?

jh099
Oct 10th 2008, 12:35 PM
Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is Separation
I read The Case for Christ a couple months ago and I don't recall there being any mention of varying degrees of separation. However, the first third or so of the book is a very good read because it's primarily concerned with proving the reliability and accurate preservation of the gospels. Needless to say, they pass with flying colors.

christlovesus2008
Oct 10th 2008, 10:13 PM
Jesus had harsh words for hypocrites.

Richard H
Oct 10th 2008, 11:02 PM
Here's what I just found: Oh Oh

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."
Joh 9:40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, "We are not blind too, are we?"
Joh 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Ethereal Spark
Oct 11th 2008, 01:22 AM
I think there will be different levels of punishment in Hell. I was reading about this in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Christ".


Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is Separation

Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matt 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matt 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Don't these scriptures point to there being different levels of hell/punishment, too?

This is just my opinion, but I think that someone like a false Christian or a Pharisee would "receive greater condemnation" because in [this] life they were much closer and had more access to the truth than other people, thus, their grief at "losing" would be greater. Like if you had all of the numbers of the lottery, except one that you changed; that had you left it alone, you would have won... so their separation from God will be a greater torment. Like Agent 86, "Missed it by that much" type of thing.

cdo
Oct 11th 2008, 02:32 AM
[quote]Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matt 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matt 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Don't these scriptures point to there being different levels of hell/punishment, too?
I also agree with you on these scriptures ! Even our works that follow us. Imo...Everyone would have even different levels of their works.Why else would we stand before God at the Great Judgement if we are all accountable for ourself.Rev.~One book was opened and another book was opened~

lendtay
Oct 11th 2008, 04:37 AM
I read The Case for Christ a couple months ago and I don't recall there being any mention of varying degrees of separation. However, the first third or so of the book is a very good read because it's primarily concerned with proving the reliability and accurate preservation of the gospels. Needless to say, they pass with flying colors.

See page 165 of the book. Strobel interviews someone named "Carson" who explains "varying degrees of punishment" in Hell.

Gospel-Witness
Oct 12th 2008, 03:04 PM
Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is Separation

I agree....even the smallest degree of punishment in hell would be too much. Eternal death and separation from the High Holy God and Father is too great to comprehend. I pray that all will repent and come to the salvation that Christ so freely provides!

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 08:37 PM
That's the problem with too little information to go on. It's easy to come to a wrong conclusion without more scripture to draw from isn't it? :2cents:Fortunately, that was not the case with my post.

Firstfruits
Oct 14th 2008, 10:10 AM
Will Hell be worse for the false Christians (I mean people who call themselves Christians but do things like commit adultery and don't repent) than the people who just don't believe? If so how do you think it will be worse?

I hope the following will be helpful.

Heb 2:3 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Heb 6:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:29 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=10&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Oct 15th 2008, 07:07 PM
Eph 5:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 Tim 4:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Tim 4:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

With the different doctrines around, how will we know who is true and who is false?

Firstfruits

immortality
Oct 15th 2008, 09:05 PM
if these scriptures haven't been mentioned already:

“Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell-fire.” [mat 5:22]

"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." [luke 12:47]

also, the parable of the two sons:

"What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.' " 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go.

"Which of the two did what his father wanted?"

"The first," they answered.

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him." [matthew 21:28-31]

Richard H
Oct 15th 2008, 09:42 PM
Eph 5:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 Tim 4:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Tim 4:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

With the different doctrines around, how will we know who is true and who is false?

Firstfruits
It's not always easy, but we aren't on our own. :)

"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:17-20

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
"All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
John 16:13-15

since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints;
because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel
which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;
Colossians 1:6

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
2Tim 3:1-5

Gentle Soul
Oct 16th 2008, 11:38 PM
I'd consider it to be worse knowing the word, yet not following it then one that had no knowledge of it. But what I'd consider far worse are the false Christians that turn people away from the church because they are improperly representing it.

A friend of mine were discussing things the other day and he mentioned how they did a street survey and they asked everybody if they went to church, the ones that said no, they asked why. The answer in almost all cases was that they were not made welcomed in the church by the members themselves. This is an indication as to the dire nature the state of affairs the current church is within.

To expand upon the OP, he lives in a very small town, and this is a typical situation, where the locals would live ungodly lives throughout the week, yet there they are at church every Sunday. He is actually made to feel like an outcast, but the way I see it and how our discussions always ending up talking about God, he is the one that belongs in church and has a right to go, but alas, since he doesn't hang out with the party crowd, he is not made to feel welcome at church so he doesn't go.

yaza
Oct 17th 2008, 12:33 AM
Must be a great read because you can find no evidence of that in Scripture. Separation is Separation
luke 12:47-48 and that slave who knew his masters will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will recieve many lashes, 48 but the one that did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging , will recieve but a few.

threebigrocks
Oct 17th 2008, 12:49 AM
The evidence in Scripture comes from Revelation 20:12-15 -

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and everyone was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. All whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire."

Considering that every single person at this judgment appears to be destined for the Lake of Fire, what need would there be to consult "books"? Unless it were to determine the degree of punishment to be meted out to them.

All, all the dead were given up for final judgment. These are physical bodies being raised - the hope of our faith and the dread to those who had none in the Lord. According to the books they are judged, and when judgment is pronounced it's final and eternal. That is the completion of what Christ came to accomplish, fully and with finality.


With the different doctrines around, how will we know who is true and who is false?
Firstfruits

We hold everything up to scripture, and see it with our spiritual eyes as the Holy Spirit reveals it to us. Not all of us in all our thoughts are 100% correct with our doctrine. There is one truth.

John 17

19"For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;
21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.


This, a prayer to the Father, by Christ, for each of us. Christ prayed this for His church, those who loved Him. Unity. No division. Powerful, powerful stuff. Christ prayed this for each one of us. Another powerful prayer is in Daniel 9, for the very same thing.