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Uncle Bud
Oct 11th 2008, 03:34 PM
When Jesus told the Pharisees this in Luke 17:20-21, doesn't this destroy our hope of Heaven after death? If the Kingdom of God is within us, why look forward to anything? This is confusing.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 11th 2008, 03:41 PM
Because at the 2nd Coming, the Kingdom of God is going to burst out into the open.

Uncle Bud
Oct 11th 2008, 03:44 PM
Because at the 2nd Coming, the Kingdom of God is going to burst out into the open.
So what did he mean when He made it sound like Heaven was already on earth? If this is Heaven, I'm not sure I want it.

quiet dove
Oct 11th 2008, 04:37 PM
When Jesus told the Pharisees this in Luke 17:20-21, doesn't this destroy our hope of Heaven after death? If the Kingdom of God is within us, why look forward to anything? This is confusing.

The Kingdom being with in us also could refer to the Holy Spirit. We are joined to Christ with His Spirit with in us. More meaning we are citizens of His Kingdom.

Kinda like, you are joined to your parents, siblings, ....family. You remain a part of your family even if you all live on opposite ends of the earth. You are still a member of the family and your family is within you.

sorry, thats the best I could come up with for an example. :bounce:

Literalist-Luke
Oct 11th 2008, 04:41 PM
So what did he mean when He made it sound like Heaven was already on earth? If this is Heaven, I'm not sure I want it.He meant the Kingdom is hidden within believers at this point. The Kingdom will not be visible to the outside world until after the 2nd Coming. And no, this is not heaven on earth - not even close.

moonglow
Oct 11th 2008, 05:59 PM
When Jesus told the Pharisees this in Luke 17:20-21, doesn't this destroy our hope of Heaven after death? If the Kingdom of God is within us, why look forward to anything? This is confusing.


Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament (http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=lu&chapter=017)
Luke 17:20-22
The Coming of the Kingdom

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Being asked by the Pharisees ...
Some have made it out that these were sincere questioners; but all of the evidence is against it. "Their question amounted to a request for a `sign from heaven'." Ash also saw this as "a rejection of the `signs' Jesus had already performed, and of what he had (already) said upon the subject." Geldenhuys thought the Pharisees might have been sincere; but the view here is that these old enemies of Jesus were up to their old tricks. "The question was probably a mocking one, `When is this kingdom of God of which thou sayest so much, and of which thou claimest to be King, visibly to appear?'"

Cometh not with observation ...
means that the kingdom would not visibly appear at all. There would be no proclamation of a king, in the political sense, no definition of boundaries, no setting up of any kind of material state at all. Hobbs noted that the word here translated "observation" is from the vocabulary of Greek medical writers (Luke being a physician), and that the word meant "closely watching the symptoms of heart disease."

The kingdom of God is within you ...
Special attention is due this statement, because of the error that is associated with it in popular thought. Summers declared: "One thing only can be derived from this ... Jesus' emphasis of the kingdom as internal and spiritual, not external and material." There is an element of truth in such a comment; but it must not be understood as teaching that the kingdom is simply something that gets into men. Summers appears to have had something like that in mind, basing his conclusion upon the fact that the word here translated "within" occurs only twice in the New Testament, the other instance being Matthew 23:26 where "the word refers to the inside of a cup or a dish." This, however, is not the whole story. The word in Matthew (used with an article) is a noun, and here it is an adverb; and W. E. Vine particularly stressed that, in Luke 17:21, "The English Revised Version margin, "in the midst of," is to be preferred. The kingdom of God was not in the hearts of the Pharisees!"

Geldenhuys has an especially pertinent comment on this, thus:

The contention of some critics that the Saviour by these words taught that the kingdom of God is merely an inner, spiritual condition in the human heart, must very definitely be rejected. Such a condition may qualify for entrance into the kingdom, but it is not itself the kingdom ... It is not ... a state of mind ... nor a disposition of men. The kingdom of God is a fact of history, not psychology ... Jesus speaks everywhere of men entering the kingdom, not of the kingdom entering men!"

Lo here ... lo there ...
In the next paragraph (Luke 17:22-37), Jesus explained that the external, visible "signs" so desired by the Pharisees were to be seen, not during the forthcoming church phase of the kingdom of God, but at the Second Advent. We agree with Barclay that "Luke 17:22-27 speak of the Second Coming of Jesus." That there are, in the very nature of such a passage, difficulties that we cannot fully understand should not deter us. The things here prophesied shall surely come to pass.
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hope that helps!

God bless

danield
Oct 11th 2008, 10:57 PM
Luke 17:20-21 “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

I feel strongly that what Christ was trying to teach everyone is that the comming of the kingdom of God is the love in our hearts for God and his ways. Love is God’s greatest gift, and can only be felt in our hearts. You can not see it, but people who feel it know it is there. Others can see the effects from love by our actions, but they can not know the joy inside our hearts unless it is shared. Also some people claim to love when in reality they do not. Genuine love for God can not be shown in a moments notice but only felt with in. Also note that God’s will is the same here on earth as it is in heaven, and that is to love him with all our strength and to love one another.

In the next passage he starts his references to the end days.

Luke 17:22 22 ¶ Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see the day when the Son of Man returns, but you won't see it.