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chivalrous
Oct 11th 2008, 10:12 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

amazzin
Oct 11th 2008, 10:24 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

You wrong. He is good in this limited time of grace but one day it will be too late. sin and a loving God don't mix. The penalty of sin is death.

By the way, have you read our rules?

Ethereal Spark
Oct 11th 2008, 10:46 PM
Separation from God is to be tormented forever and ever. Lucifer chose to rebel. He knew what he was getting himself into. He chose to be separated from God forever and ever. He knew what he had, and he gave it up. Now he's Satan. And he will be separated from God and be in hell, tormented day and night forever and ever.

100% Good and 100% evil cannot coexist.

If I had more time I would explain it in more detail but I'm exhausted right now. I believe the Bible. I will come back tomorrow, God willing and add more. If that part of the Bible is wrong, then what parts are right? It has to be accepted 100% or not at all.

Nite :sleeping:

livingword26
Oct 11th 2008, 11:03 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

If the bible is unreliable, what do you base your claim as a christian on?

Literalist-Luke
Oct 11th 2008, 11:18 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"Your personal opinion does not trump the Word of God.

danield
Oct 11th 2008, 11:22 PM
There comes a period in time where God will not tolerate evil living among us, and he will banish it forever. We do not fully understand the complexities of our souls and the many mysteries of the after life so it may have to do with how the destruction of the beast needs to take place. Either way the destruction of evil is a good thing. So God is 100% good!

chivalrous
Oct 11th 2008, 11:52 PM
Now he's Satan. And he will be separated from God and be in hell, tormented day and night forever and ever.

100% Good and 100% evil cannot coexist.


God has the power to be 100% good.

Satan does NOT have the power to be 100% evil.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 12th 2008, 12:02 AM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

Rightly typed,

I have read or heard not sure, but about the meaning of for ever and ever, it is meant according to what I know is that the consequences of this being cast into that lake are everlasting-eternal.

And it is another topic but you know God does not, have not, wont kill anyone.

Since the commandments written in the book of Exodus chapter 20 are the expression of His Character, and between the 10 commandments there is :

Thou shalt not kill. Ex 20:13.

God Bless


______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominio and power, both now and ever. Amen. (Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

livingword26
Oct 12th 2008, 12:36 AM
God has the power to be 100% good.

Satan does NOT have the power to be 100% evil.

See post #4 above.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 01:50 AM
Satan does NOT have the power to be 100% evil.Satan already is 100% evil. This is not Star Wars, where the bad guy still has good in him and can be turned back from the dark side. It's not going to happen. To claim otherwise is to call the Word of God a liar.

livingword26
Oct 12th 2008, 02:50 AM
Rightly typed,

I have read or heard not sure, but about the meaning of for ever and ever, it is meant according to what I know is that the consequences of this being cast into that lake are everlasting-eternal.

And it is another topic but you know God does not, have not, wont kill anyone.



Except of course, in the old testemant, when He killed all of mankind, except for Noah, his family and some animals. Oh, and when He told the Israelites to kill various tribes. And a few others.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 12th 2008, 02:51 AM
Satan already is 100% evil. This is not Star Wars, where the bad guy still has good in him and can be turned back from the dark side. It's not going to happen. To claim otherwise is to call the Word of God a liar.

So Satan has no way back. Actually there is an object lesson, more or less what follows: Tells of a driver going down a steep hill, and He goes at such speed that if He use the hand brake in point one the car could stop before wrecking the wall, but if the driver use the brake in the point 2 there is no chance.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4652/objectlesds5.jpg



______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominio and power, both now and ever. Amen.

(Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 03:08 AM
So Satan has no way back. Actually there is an object lesson, more or less what follows: Tells of a driver going down a steep hill, and He goes at such speed that if He use the hand brake in point one the car could stop before wrecking the wall, but if [I]the driver use the brake in the point 2 there is no chance.There was no "point 1" for Satan. He went straight to point 2 as soon as he rebelled, as did the demons (fallen angels) who joined him.

Dani H
Oct 12th 2008, 03:32 AM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

Well he would just reap what he's been sowing for thousands of years, eh?

Think about the culminative torment he has been putting people through, throughout the ages ...

God's principles don't change, and the devil, too, is governed by them.

And his time is short.

livingword26
Oct 12th 2008, 03:33 AM
No one gets saved by stopping anything.

Richard H
Oct 12th 2008, 03:57 AM
God has the power to be 100% good.

Satan does NOT have the power to be 100% evil.
Are you saying that Satan is partly good?!!

Perhaps - just misunderstood?!!

Richard

σяєяυииєя
Oct 12th 2008, 04:03 AM
There was no "point 1" for Satan. He went straight to point 2 as soon as he rebelled, as did the demons (fallen angels) who joined him.

My friend... But As God is righteous, Satan [the angel, in whom iniquity was found. Ezekiel 28.15.] should have had at least a chance before rebeling.

"Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful." Psalm 165

Go well


______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominio and power, both now and ever. Amen.

(Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

Richard H
Oct 12th 2008, 04:18 AM
2Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

"Hell" here is:
tartaroō
tar-tar-o'-o
From ΤάρταροςTartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.

justinbporter
Oct 12th 2008, 09:22 AM
Hell is a place for those who cannot be with God because of their sin. God wants EVERYONE to be in heaven, but he left the choice up to us. We can choose to believe in Him and His Son, but if we do not, we are effectively casting ourselves into Hell.

God is good because He gives everyone an equal opportunity to get into Heaven. We as humans are the evil ones, as we are the ones rejecting his gift and throwing ourselves into the lake of fire. Likewise with Satan - he had a choice, and he chose evil, not good. He chose Hell, not Heaven. He chose himself, not God.

Finally, without punishment for sin, where would we be? If everyone was allowed into Heaven, how would that change what the Bible says? Christ wouldn't be needed to forgive our sins, because everyone would be saved anyway. Sin would greatly increase in the world, as no one would care what was right and what was wrong. Maybe there wouldn't even be right and wrong, since God created the world, and everything God creates must be good?

That's a good point, actually. If we agree that God is 100% good, does that mean that everything God creates is also 100% good?

Think back to Genesis and God creating the universe. Everything was good up 'til Day 6, when God created man, and saw that it was not good for man to be alone! Interesting... so God actually created something that He Himself said wasn't good! Maybe not a physical thing, since Adam was a good creation, but God also created the situation of Adam being alone, and that was not good.

I guess I'm just trying to say that just because God is 100% good, doesn't meant that he can't create something that isn't good.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 12:33 PM
My friend... But As God is righteous, Satan [the angel, in whom iniquity was found. Ezekiel 28.15.] should have had at least a chance before reveling.

"Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful." Psalm 165

Go wellI have no idea what Ezekiel 28:15 has to do with what you're saying here. What do you mean by "reveling"?

Ethereal Spark
Oct 12th 2008, 01:53 PM
It looks like I didn't have to come back and add more! :D Well done, guys!

But I will add Jude vs. 6:
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

To reiterate; they chose it. They know perfectly well what "forever and ever" is.

I just want to say that I am so impressed with so many people at this forum; with your knowledge of God, your obvious love for Him and your dedication to rightly dividing His Word! (You know who you are ;)).

I am very grateful that I found Bible Database-- Praise God!

:D

Richard H
Oct 12th 2008, 02:27 PM
The Book of Revelation (incorrect)

Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"
Good!
Now that we've gotten that cleared up: that Revelation is NOT incorrect as stated in the OP.
I just had to change that text color.

One thing still sort of blows my mind: that (2 things) death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire.
Is the lake of fire total distruction? or a continuation to the Nth degree?

Still on the OP. ;) heehee

chivalrous
Oct 12th 2008, 03:04 PM
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Dani H
Oct 12th 2008, 03:29 PM
Matthew 10:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&verse=28&version=50&context=verse)
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

After you destroy something ... is there anything left?

Hell isn't the absence of God, because there isn't any place in the universe where God isn't.

Psalm 139
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.

Hell is the presence of God's judgment. And our God is a consuming fire.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 12th 2008, 10:08 PM
I have no idea what Ezekiel 28:15 has to do with what you're saying here. What do you mean by "reveling"?

Oh excuse me and thanks Luke I mis-spelled "rebelling".

How the verse of Ezekiel is related is as follows:

"God had created Lucifer a perfect spirit being, but He also gave him free moral agency, that is, the ability to choose to follow good or evil. Lucifer chose to become Satan (http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Audio.details/ID/167/Satan-Part-1.htm) the Devil, the Adversary, by allowing sin[selfishness] to mold his character. Source (http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/21173/eVerseID/21175).

God bless

______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominio and power, both now and ever. Amen. (Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

markedward
Oct 12th 2008, 10:15 PM
I'm coming in late: is the OP claiming that the Book of Revelation is wrong, or that our understanding of it is wrong?

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 10:31 PM
Oh excuse me and thanks Luke I mis-spelled "rebelling".

How the verse of Ezekiel is related is as follows:

"God had created Lucifer a perfect spirit being, but He also gave him free moral agency, that is, the ability to choose to follow good or evil. Lucifer chose to become Satan (http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Audio.details/ID/167/Satan-Part-1.htm) the Devil, the Adversary, by allowing sin[selfishness] to mold his character. Source (http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/21173/eVerseID/21175).OK, I see what you mean now. I think. You're saying that Satan should've had a chance, at least, until the moment he rebelled. Well, he did. Until he turned against God, everything was hunky-dory. It was only after he turned against God that he wrote his own fate. Or was there something else?

σяєяυииєя
Oct 13th 2008, 12:04 AM
Except of course, in the old testemant, when He killed all of mankind, except for Noah, his family and some animals. Oh, and when He told the Israelites to kill various tribes. And a few others.

Hey LivingWord;

Right that is understandable ever since we leave out:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9.


When the LORD says I kill, we cannot think of this killing as humans kill, for: our ways are not His ways.


And if God as an executioner/hangman/tyrant would get some weapon or with His own hands, and killed anyone then what would it involve?


Actually there`s a whole book about God`s real Character, your servant could handle to anyone would like it (elreinocerca@hotmail.com), explaining it a lot clearer (http://www.srac.de) than my poor English.


Ok what would it involve: When we read the Ten commandments in Exodus chapeter 20: Thou shalt not kill. And then In Genesis chapter 6:7:



"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die."


Sounds as an apparent contradiction, doesn`t it?
Then first it shows God as asking us not to kill, actually it`s a promise, we won`t kill, as delight.
And After He has asked us not to kill then If we read about the flood, it looks like He is breaking His own commandment -Thou shalt not kill.-


And asking us not to kill, but how then can one reconcile this God with Jesus Christ?


Well In short: we do know Noah did last about a hundred and 20 years building the ark, and over that years Noah preached the coming flood even as we today are to preach Jesus 2nd coming.


But did that generation receive Noah`s message?


No, but who we read entered into the ark? Genesis 7: 13-14


"In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort."


They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Luke 17:27



So they rejected the message of the coming flood and then God who cared of them of the destructive powers of Nature.


Let me browse that book mentioned before in order to make this clear. ;)
(Thank God here is the object lesson, is somewhat long though)


To answer this question the following illustration is given. It will show the distinct difference between merely withdrawing and being forced to withdraw. It will show that even in His withdrawing, it is not God who is responsible for the disaster which follows.


Let us suppose that there is an atomic power plant located in the midst of a small township of two thousand people. The nature of this power plant is such that an operator must continually be in the control room to monitor everything. Should this post be left unattended for several hours or more, the nuclear fission will run out of control and blossom into a holocaust of destruction.


The situation arises where every technician but one is taken away and the full responsibility rests upon this man. No one else in the whole area has the training, knowledge, or skill to operate this volatile equipment. However, this creates no special problem, for the man is healthy, very conscientious, and does his work with great faithfulness day and night. He is able to take sufficient rest between check times to enable him to carry on for quite a long time.
But into the community enters an archenemy of the technician who determines to run him out of town. To accomplish this he circulates lying reports until a hate complex is generated among the villagers. They begin to persecute the technician with increasing intensity. For a very long time he patiently endures their attacks in the hope that these will subside and the people will realize that if he does forsake his post, it will be disastrous for the village.


Finally his patience runs out. "I have had enough of this," he cries. "I have gone the second and the third mile. These people have shown that they do not deserve to live. I am leaving."


Whereupon he walks out of the control room and drives far away. Several hours elapse, and he is safe beyond the reach of the explosion. When it occurs, the village and all in it are utterly destroyed.


While it is true that in a certain sense the villagers destroyed themselves, it is equally true that this technician destroyed them for he vindictively left them knowing and desiring that his departure would bring those sure and certain results. This is the picture which many have of God.


The situation faced by this man is the same as that faced by God. He is the great "Technician" who is in charge of the power house of nature. When He lets go of those powers, there is no one else who can control them and keep them from exploding in a horror of destruction. He also has an enemy who has generated a hate complex against Him.


While many correctly believe that God destroys by withdrawing, they still make the mistake of believing that He comes to the end of His patience and vindictively withdraws to leave men to perish in the cataclysm of destruction which He desires to happen. If this were the true picture of God, then unquestionably we would have to agree that He is, after all, a destroyer.


But it is not the truth. God is very different from this. Let us retell the story to provide a true picture of His character.


Here is the same technician, the same control room, the same village, and the same enemy stirring up trouble. This time the technician never thinks of leaving. No matter what they do to him, all he can see is their situation. He knows that if he leaves them, they will all die, so he stays on. His patience is not in question, for he is not thinking of himself at all.


But the persecution becomes more and more intense until the people begin to demand that he go. He protests that if he does, they will perish, and for their sakes, not his own, he desires to stay. But they are blinded by hatred. They are ignorant of their real danger and overconfident of their own ability to handle the station. So they laugh derisively at him and shout for his departure.


With the deepest concern for them he holds on and fulfills his work as faithfully as ever. Every time he thinks of them, a pang of fear and pain sweeps through him, and he considers most earnestly how he can win their love and confidence so that he might preserve them alive. Not one thought is for himself--every thought is for them and their need.


But every day they become more hateful and violent until they invade the control room and angrily shout at him to leave. They jostle him out through the door and down to his car. They put him into it and direct him to drive away. There is no choice left. Slowly he drives out of the village and mounts the first hill beyond. He stops the car, climbs out, and looks back toward the angry group gathered to make sure that he really leaves. He spreads his hands in one last loving appeal. The instant response is agitated signals conveying to him their unchanged demand that he go.


What more can he do? Nothing!


Every possible source open to him to save those people is exhausted, and with the heaviest of hearts he turns his car into the distance and is gone forever. Several hours pass, and then the atomic fireball blasts the village and the villagers out of existence.


No one can say that this man is a destroyer. He acted out the character of a saviour only. He could not and did not save them because they would not let him. This is the true picture of the character of God. The truth of this is stated in a paragraph from Prophets and Kings, 176. "Christ will never abandon those for whom He has died. We may leave Him and be overwhelmed with temptation, but Christ can never turn from one for whom He has paid the ransom of His own life."


In this next verse we can read how the Israelites rejected God`s ways and wanted from that time on their own ways



And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. Exodus 20:18-19



" Once they had made that choice, then by it they had instituted their way in place of God's way. It is impossible for both the way of God and of man to operate within a society at the same time. It can be only one or the other, never both. So, when they elected to institute their way in place of God's, then God's methods could not be used in dealing with the rebellion at Sinai. Therefore what happened at Mt. Sinai was not after the order of God. It was the application of the procedures which Israel had instituted by adding the sword to their way of life. The only part God filled was to apply some restraint and guidance to their use of it to minimize its evil effects.

What complicates the problem and makes it difficult for many to understand God's behavior, is that Israel was still reckoned as His people. Therefore, it is reasoned, if God was still their leader and, from that position, instructed them to execute the rebellious, then He was responsible for the slaughter. If this is correct reasoning, then it can only be concluded that destruction of the enemy was the divinely instituted solution to the problem. Rebellion, therefore, was to be overcome by force.


Such reasoning will satisfy the superficial thinker to whom serious, clashing contradictions in the Bible can be rationalized away, but it will not satisfy the truly spiritual student who knows that there can be no real contradictions in God's Word. He will search with faith-filled, intensive dedication until the problem is resolved according to Bible principles." Behold Your God.





God bless


______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominio and power, both now and ever. Amen.

(Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

Studyin'2Show
Oct 13th 2008, 01:24 AM
Except that the command is not thou shall not 'kill' but more accurately interpreted, thou shall not 'murder'. Which is why there was no conflict when God told Joshua or David or Saul to 'kill' someone in battle. Killing in war is not 'murder'.

Equipped_4_Love
Oct 13th 2008, 03:40 AM
Think back to Genesis and God creating the universe. Everything was good up 'til Day 6, when God created man, and saw that it was not good for man to be alone! Interesting... so God actually created something that He Himself said wasn't good! Maybe not a physical thing, since Adam was a good creation, but God also created the situation of Adam being alone, and that was not good.

I have actually thought about this, and have come to the conclusion that the reason God created Adam alone in the beginning was so that Adam had time to get to know God in a deep, personal way, and to establish a relationship with Him, before coming into a relationship with a wife.

The same principle still exists today. For a marriage to work, it has to have God as it's center, and until a person has an intimate relationship with God, and knows His will for their lives, they cannot properly choose the spouse that the Lord has for them. The only way a marriage can be truly fulfilling is if both people have a true, intimate relationship with God.....ideally, this should happen before someone goes looking for a mate.

SeekingWisdom
Oct 13th 2008, 04:43 AM
My friend... But As God is righteous, Satan [the angel, in whom iniquity was found. Ezekiel 28.15.] should have had at least a chance before rebeling.



Two questions

1)Why? If you are standing directly in God's glory and you still choose to rebel then why do you need another chance? I'd say your mind is pretty much made up.

2)What makes you think that Satan would have even wanted/accepted it?

σяєяυииєя
Oct 13th 2008, 05:25 AM
Two questions

1)Why? If you are standing directly in God's glory and you still choose to rebel then why do you need another chance? I'd say your mind is pretty much made up.

2)What makes you think that Satan would have even wanted/accepted it?

Helo SekingWisdom,

1,2-) I`m talking before rebelling :D see post #12 click (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1821247&postcount=12)

God bless

______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with
exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominio and power, both now and ever. Amen.

(Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

OneTime
Oct 13th 2008, 08:15 AM
I have actually thought about this, and have come to the conclusion that the reason God created Adam alone in the beginning was so that Adam had time to get to know God in a deep, personal way, and to establish a relationship with Him, before coming into a relationship with a wife.

The same principle still exists today. For a marriage to work, it has to have God as it's center, and until a person has an intimate relationship with God, and knows His will for their lives, they cannot properly choose the spouse that the Lord has for them. The only way a marriage can be truly fulfilling is if both people have a true, intimate relationship with God.....ideally, this should happen before someone goes looking for a mate.

Atheists divorce at a much lower rate then "Christians" and also have lower rates of unhappiness with their spouses.

Studyin'2Show
Oct 13th 2008, 10:14 AM
Atheists divorce at a much lower rate then "Christians" and also have lower rates of unhappiness with their spouses.Your point is what? :confused If you're married should you become atheists to be happy? :dunno:

livingword26
Oct 13th 2008, 10:32 AM
Atheists divorce at a much lower rate then "Christians" and also have lower rates of unhappiness with their spouses.

That's an interesting theory. Have anything to back it up with?

Evangelist Smith
Oct 13th 2008, 01:49 PM
Because God is nothing but Pure Holy and Righteous, He can be nothing but Just and justice calls for punishment to sin..

our Lord is Just

I the Lord loveth judgment

Justice and Judgment are the habitation of Thy Throne
truth and mercy goes before Thee

and because God is Just does not make Him a mean God, but a Holy Righteous Just God

Amen Amen!

and as for satan,he is nothing but evil

and he chose his way just like we have a choice what way we want to go

to serve the Lord or not and he chose to rebel against the Good Lord..

HE CHOSE

God bless
Evang.dare

chivalrous
Oct 13th 2008, 02:01 PM
Good!
Now that we've gotten that cleared up: that Revelation is NOT incorrect as stated in the OP.
I just had to change that text color.


If you look in a red letter bible,
you will find the words from the OP are NOT in red.

Richard H
Oct 13th 2008, 02:09 PM
If you look in a red letter bible,
you will find the words from the OP are NOT in red.
OP = Light orange (too hard to read) --> Brown (easier to read). No red involved.

Ethereal Spark
Oct 13th 2008, 02:27 PM
Separation from God is to be tormented forever and ever. Lucifer chose to rebel. He knew what he was getting himself into. He chose to be separated from God forever and ever. He knew what he had, and he gave it up. Now he's Satan. And he will be separated from God and be in hell, tormented day and night forever and ever.

100% Good and 100% evil cannot coexist.

If I had more time I would explain it in more detail but I'm exhausted right now. I believe the Bible. I will come back tomorrow, God willing and add more. If that part of the Bible is wrong, then what parts are right? It has to be accepted 100% or not at all.

Nite :sleeping:

I was tired and should have thought to phrase this differently. When I said 'separation from God', I meant lack of fellowship with Him; outside of an intimate, loving relationship with Him. I will try to keep from posting when I'm half asleep from now on.

Equipped_4_Love
Oct 15th 2008, 03:18 AM
That's an interesting theory. Have anything to back it up with?

That's what I'd like to know.
Where did you get this information?

livingwaters
Oct 15th 2008, 03:39 AM
Everything man reaps is due to obedience or disobedience to the Word of God!!!!!Glory to God...;)

Richard H
Oct 15th 2008, 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by OneTime http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1822718#post1822718)
Atheists divorce at a much lower rate then "Christians" and also have lower rates of unhappiness with their spouses.

Originally Posted by livingword26 http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1822757#post1822757)
That's an interesting theory. Have anything to back it up with?

That's what I'd like to know.
Where did you get this information?
Me Three!
American Atheist Magazine?

Richard

OneTime
Oct 16th 2008, 06:56 AM
Your point is what? :confused If you're married should you become atheists to be happy? :dunno:


The statement was made that "God must be at the center of a marriage for it to work".

Studies, including those conducted by gallop and the george barna group reflect something quite different.

Christ said he was the Truth, and I'm all for bringing truth to any situation. :P

OneTime
Oct 16th 2008, 07:00 AM
See above post.

OneTime
Oct 16th 2008, 07:04 AM
Me Three!
American Atheist Magazine?

Richard

If statistics of large sample groups, which is the standard of our society while measuring such things as it is obviously impossible to talk to every human on the planet, mean anything, than it is far from a theory.

Again, some simple research will show you what the truth is. Christianity Today bore the statistics of evangelicals in 2006 actually divorcing at higher rates then "secular society". Not by much, mere tenths of percentage points, but still. It should be, secular world 51.5% divorce rate, Christians 4% (There are some cases of course)

I wonder if this is hard to accept? Certainly nobody believes that the "church" is a bastion of morals anymore, Christian or otherwise.

Peace

markdrums
Oct 16th 2008, 09:30 AM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

Pay close attention to the word in question.....
Where do you find "torture"?
I see the word "TORMENT"... which is a completely different word, with a completely different meaning.

:hmm:

livingword26
Oct 16th 2008, 10:27 AM
If statistics of large sample groups, which is the standard of our society while measuring such things as it is obviously impossible to talk to every human on the planet, mean anything, than it is far from a theory.

Again, some simple research will show you what the truth is. Christianity Today bore the statistics of evangelicals in 2006 actually divorcing at higher rates then "secular society". Not by much, mere tenths of percentage points, but still. It should be, secular world 51.5% divorce rate, Christians 4% (There are some cases of course)

I wonder if this is hard to accept? Certainly nobody believes that the "church" is a bastion of morals anymore, Christian or otherwise.

Peace

It is no ones job to research your claims. If you want to put up statistics, it is your responsibility to provide the proof. Could you perhaps provide the issue of "Christianity Today" that puts forth these claims. And also, some additional proof to back up your claims of happier relationships amongst the atheist.

Studyin'2Show
Oct 16th 2008, 10:47 AM
The statement was made that "God must be at the center of a marriage for it to work".

Studies, including those conducted by gallop and the george barna group reflect something quite different.

Christ said he was the Truth, and I'm all for bringing truth to any situation. :PAgain, what is your POINT? :confused What in the world does this have to do with the topic of the OP? :hmm: Maybe you should start another thread if you want to discuss why Christian marriages divorce at such a high rate. My view, btw, is that many who call themselves Christian marry to have sex (wrong reason). Whereas atheists feel no compulsion to get married, they just have unmarried relations with no issue. So their failed relationship totals are not counted. Then for those who DO decide to marry, it is because they really, really want to be with the other person forever (right reason). This basic philosophical difference completely skews the numbers so it really is like comparing apples and oranges. ;) But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether those who die without Christ are tormented forever. :rolleyes: Let's get back on topic.
:OFFT:

chal
Oct 16th 2008, 11:44 AM
See above post.

Above your post it says "Today, 7:00AM." Are you implying that there is a chronological based argument that we have somehow overlooked? :hmm:

Richard H
Oct 16th 2008, 01:14 PM
If statistics of large sample groups, which is the standard of our society while measuring such things as it is obviously impossible to talk to every human on the planet, mean anything, than it is far from a theory.

Again, some simple research will show you what the truth is. Christianity Today bore the statistics of evangelicals in 2006 actually divorcing at higher rates then "secular society". Not by much, mere tenths of percentage points, but still. It should be, secular world 51.5% divorce rate, Christians 4% (There are some cases of course)

I wonder if this is hard to accept? Certainly nobody believes that the "church" is a bastion of morals anymore, Christian or otherwise.

Peace
OPPS :eek:
'Forgot the lil' emotIcon, ":rolleyes:". :blush:
I don't actually think you subscribed to A.A.M.. ;) Since you're a Christian. :saint:

Of course, yuo might have a heart for bringing them the Good New. :bible:
But it's tough to convert someone who doesn't believe in God in the first place...
'Sort of like hitting you head against a :Bbrickwall. :rolleyes:

Anyway, 'sorry 'bout that. :blushsad:

Richard

chivalrous
Oct 17th 2008, 04:00 PM
If you think Satan can stay evil "for ever and ever",
that would require him to have a vary high level of consistency and persiverance.

Athanasius
Oct 17th 2008, 04:20 PM
If you think Satan can stay evil "for ever and ever", that would require him to have a vary high level of consistency and persiverance.

See, I don't mind it when people discuss different interpretations on scripture, but are you actually suggesting (sorry I haven't had time to go through the whole thread) that the actual Bible itself contains error (and I don't just mean some sort of redactive or translational error)?

Richard H
Oct 17th 2008, 04:38 PM
If you think Satan can stay evil "for ever and ever",
that would require him to have a vary high level of consistency and persiverance.
Sympathy for the Devil? :o

I just did a search for “Satan” in my software.
I didn’t find one instance of his doing anything good or nice or kind or loving or merciful.

It is now his nature to be against the Most High. It’s called: pride. It’s called: sin.

It doesn’t take effort, just as it doesn’t take effort to be selfish or hurtful or unloving toward God or man.
And I think he rather enjoys it. :mad:

petepet
Oct 17th 2008, 06:14 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

Actually it does not say that God will torture him for ever and ever. It says that he will be tormented for ever and ever. Sin has its own way of bringing recompense on the one who sins, especially such sin as his which willl have left him ithout hope.. Satan's confinement in order to prevent his evil reaching out to others will result in the fire of his conscience and the fire of his guilt tormenting him continually. He will literally torment himself (just as the rich man discovered in Luke 16, although with the devil it will be to a much greater degree..

σяєяυииєя
Oct 17th 2008, 07:01 PM
If you think Satan can stay evil "for ever and ever",
that would require him to have a vary high level of consistency and persiverance.

It`s matter of Lucifer`s nature you know, the long war against God`s order began in heaven has worked in this being, that:

"...every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually..." Genesis 6:5

There it`s talking about the people living before the flood took place, but who was his master? Lucifer.

Fareyewell

chivalrous
Oct 18th 2008, 12:52 AM
Letting someone be tormented "for ever and ever" is NOT in God's nature.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Veretax
Oct 18th 2008, 02:41 AM
I
Again, some simple research will show you what the truth is. Christianity Today bore the statistics of evangelicals in 2006 actually divorcing at higher rates then "secular society". Not by much, mere tenths of percentage points, but still. It should be, secular world 51.5% divorce rate, Christians 4% (There are some cases of course)


Here's the thing. I'm one of those who believes that there are many Buildings called Churches that people attend, and people who claim and want to be counted as Christians, but do not actually walk with the Lord. It is impossible for statisticians to know enough to be able to tell this so I'm betting that many of these relationship issues are the direct result of a wrong relationship with God. Or a Lack of a relationship in some cases.


Letting someone be tormented "for ever and ever" is NOT in God's nature.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.


Except that God is a Holy God. He loves because he is Holy, but because he is Holy all things sinful must be set apart from him. This is why you must believe in Christ as the propitiation for your sins to bridge the Chasm, and pay the sin debt that you have. Otherwise you can't enter into his presence.

Dani H
Oct 18th 2008, 04:52 AM
Letting someone be tormented "for ever and ever" is NOT in God's nature.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.


I still don't understand the point of your OP ... sorry. Help me out, here.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 18th 2008, 05:13 AM
In a Christian book about commentaries of the Bible is found the next parragraph:

-When the flood of waters was at its height upon the earth, it had the appearance of a boundless lake of water. When God finally purifies the earth, it will appear like a boundless lake of fire. As God preserved the ark amid the commotions of the Flood, because it contained eight righteous persons, He will preserve the New Jerusalem, containing the faithful of all ages, from righteous Abel down to the last saint which lived. Although the whole earth, with the exception of that portion where the city rests, will be wrapped in a sea of liquid fire, yet the city is preserved as was the ark, by a miracle of Almighty power. It stands unharmed amid the devouring elements (3SG 87). {7BC 986.5}

So the earth shall be purified with fire, but not for ever and ever, so this forever and ever is not literal, but symbolic.

Be good
Have a nice weekend.

Athanasius
Oct 18th 2008, 10:14 AM
Letting someone be tormented "for ever and ever" is NOT in God's nature.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.


Chivalrous please answer my question: are you saying the Biblical text itself is wrong. Or are you saying our interpretation of the verse is wrong?

livingword26
Oct 18th 2008, 03:08 PM
Letting someone be tormented "for ever and ever" is NOT in God's nature.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.


It does seem odd to use a bible verse, to speak of Gods nature, and deny other bible verses. Do you think it is ok to use the bible, to create your beliefs about God, and throw parts of it away that you don't agree with. Isn't that creating your own religion? Each individual will have the opportunity to be forgiven. The only people in the lake of fire are those that have refused that forgiveness.

chivalrous
Oct 18th 2008, 03:10 PM
Chivalrous please answer my question: are you saying the Biblical text itself is wrong. Or are you saying our interpretation of the verse is wrong?

I don't know.

It could even be some kind of test.

Athanasius
Oct 18th 2008, 04:53 PM
I don't know.

It could even be some kind of test.

What do you mean you don't know... You don't know what you're saying? I honestly don't know what you're getting at in regards to what I previously asked. Are you suggesting the inconsistency (in scripture) is a test? Or are you suggesting this thread is some sort of test by you to us? If it's the latter then I'll close the thread shortly, because such a thing is extremely unnecessary and condescending (especially after the above comment). If it's the former then please, you'll have to greatly elaborate why you think God would test us by lying to us.

Thanks ;)

Veretax
Oct 18th 2008, 05:36 PM
Woah. WHen has God Ever lied? Wouldn't that be contrary to his character?

jamison
Oct 18th 2008, 06:25 PM
Chilvarous,

I smell what you are stepping in!

Matt 5:44-48

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

To be perfect like our Father, we must LOVE our enemies. If we only love those who love us then we are no better than pagans!

jamison

petepet
Oct 18th 2008, 10:26 PM
Letting someone be tormented "for ever and ever" is NOT in God's nature.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.



God apparently disagrees with you :-))).

Remember we are talking about Satan who has for millenniums constantly attacked the people of God. He also caused angels to fall. He has chosen his own destiny.

chivalrous
Oct 18th 2008, 11:53 PM
If it's the former then please, you'll have to greatly elaborate why you think God would test us by lying to us.

God would NOT need to lie.
He could do nothing, and let Satan slip a card into the deck.

The test would be, can we spot the card? Or not?

Veretax
Oct 19th 2008, 12:09 AM
God would NOT need to lie.
He could do nothing, and let Satan slip a card into the deck.

The test would be, can we spot the card? Or not?

SO you are suggesting that God is not willing or is incapable of preserving his word such that we can Know and rely on all of it? If that's how you feel, how can you trust any of the Bible?

livingword26
Oct 19th 2008, 12:48 AM
God would NOT need to lie.
He could do nothing, and let Satan slip a card into the deck.

The test would be, can we spot the card? Or not?

Why don't you just step up to the plate and say what you mean. Speaking in parables is not really necessary. If you believe something to be true, have the guts to say it. Otherwise, just accept the fact that what the bible says is from God.

third hero
Oct 19th 2008, 03:37 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. -Matthew 8:12

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. -Matthew 22:13

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. -Matthew 24:51

These are but three verse that came outof the Mouth of Lord Jesus Himself. Tell me, what would cause weeping, and gnashing of teeth?

Here's another example, for all of you hell-deniers out there.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:22-23

Tell me, what is happening to the rich man in Luke 16? Is he not being tormented? If you say that torture is against God's character, and the embodiment of God's character is saying that thosde who die in sin are tormented, then guess what, torture IS in His character. Revelation does not lie, and neither do Lord Jesus.

And BTW, I have more where those came from. If you say that Revelation is incorrect, then you are going to have to say that Lord Jesus is incorrect, which by my estimation is the same as calling Lord Jesus a Liar.

chivalrous
Oct 19th 2008, 04:07 PM
Why don't you just step up to the plate and say what you mean. Speaking in parables is not really necessary. If you believe something to be true, have the guts to say it. Otherwise, just accept the fact that what the bible says is from God.

I believe the bible is NOT 100% correct.

"accept the fact that what the bible says is from God"
Then more books were added after that.

I believe the words of Jesus and the 10 Commandments.

The rest is a "?"

Studyin'2Show
Oct 19th 2008, 04:54 PM
I believe the bible is NOT 100% correct.

"accept the fact that what the bible says is from God"
Then more books were added after that.

I believe the words of Jesus and the 10 Commandments.

The rest is a "?"


So, you have created God into an image that you are comfortable with and turned His word into a salad bar. :rolleyes:

Btw, I'm moving this thread into the Controversial Issues forum.

livingword26
Oct 19th 2008, 07:14 PM
I believe the bible is NOT 100% correct.

"accept the fact that what the bible says is from God"
Then more books were added after that.

I believe the words of Jesus and the 10 Commandments.

The rest is a "?"





Do you have "words of Jesus" that are not in the bible? Or are there just particular books that you consider to contain "Jesus words"? If so, which ones?

LadyinWaiting
Oct 20th 2008, 12:38 AM
Chivalrous,

Regarding Satan - Satan and the demons are NOT humans. They were created beings, angels, and they chose to battle and rage against God. Therefore, their punishment is the equivalent to the enemy of God.

The words in the Bible regarding praying for your enemies, turning the other cheek, and forgiveness are ONLY written to tell us how to act towards mankind and to tell us how much God loves us and wants us to be with Him (that not one should perish but that all should be brought to repentence). Satan has no ability to repent, it is not in his nature. Christ died for the souls of MANKIND, not for Satan and his minions.

In terms of humans, God's word is clear that at the end of the age those whose names are written in the Book of Life (those who chose to repent and follow Christ) will be saved. All those who chose the path of satan will share in his fate; eternally separated from the divine love of God; unable to change their decision.


Do I understand that? Not entirely. However, the Bible does say that God is both a loving God and a just God. He is perfect. Perfection cannot share with imperfection.

If there was no punishment for those who chose to live apart from God, then there would be no need for salvation and Christ's sacrifice wouldn't have been required. However, since it was necessary and He did say that HE is the way, the truth and the life; that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him (meaning through his blood and sacrifice), then the points are clear. Those who chose to live apart from God will remain apart from God (their choice) for eternity.

To us, it may not seem fair, but our ways are not God's ways.



In so far as your decision to declare only parts of the Bible are true, you're missing out on the perfect love letter God wrote so that you could better understand His true character, His will. It's the way the Lord speaks to us, the way we connect to Him and grasp, as much as our minds can, the Lord. You may want to do some research and reconsider your beliefs regarding the Bible. Neglecting the Word of God due to an opinion you have that isn't consistent with your faith is a major problem.

Teke
Oct 22nd 2008, 02:30 PM
I believe the bible is NOT 100% correct.


Ever think maybe the bible is correct and it's really understanding that is not 100%. :hmm:

jesuslover1968
Oct 22nd 2008, 02:52 PM
Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God is 100% good.

He would NOT torture anyone "for ever and ever"


It seems to me so many people are creating a god in their own minds to suit what they deem as good and acceptable. The problem with that is that now they worship a different god than the one I worship. Jesus IS the Word.
John 1:1~In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Thinking that the Bible is fallible is the same mistake many cults and false religions make. Please be careful. God is God. Do you not trust that God has protected His Word to you? Don't you think if the Bible was wrong, He would have warned us somehow? In His Word? But He didn't. Because He didn't need to. His Word is there. It is up to you whether you accept it. Just keep in mind that Jesus is the Word and when you reject the Word, you are rejecting Jesus. The Bible is a very in-depth biography of who Jesus is and He wants us to know everything in it. On the other hand, the devil doesn't want us to know what's in it, and the war is on. I will pray for you. God Bless.