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jeffweeder
Oct 12th 2008, 05:13 AM
Brothers and Sisters,
Would you mind giving your opinion as to what this scripture refers too :idea:



13 (javascript:VClk('Da 7:13')) "I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 (javascript:VClk('Da 7:14')) "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Thankyou so much :kiss:

markedward
Oct 12th 2008, 05:37 AM
Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 11:15.

jeffweeder
Oct 12th 2008, 05:52 AM
Thanks Mark.

I'd like to give others the chance to respond before i reply, so please be patient

third hero
Oct 12th 2008, 05:54 AM
Matthew 24:29-31, 25:31-46, Revelation 19:11-20:6.

In othyer words, Danoiel 7 is the OT confirmation of Revelation 19-20. In fact, I find that the whole of Daniel 7 is the OT confirmation of Revelation 13-20. It is the condensed version, minus some of the Vials of wrath that is written in Revelation 16.

Cyberseeker
Oct 12th 2008, 07:17 AM
Reigning with Christ on new heaven and earth forever.

Yes, Rev 11:15 :cool:

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 07:18 AM
It's the second coming.

jeffweeder
Oct 12th 2008, 08:14 AM
:spin: Keep trying...not even close :lol:

larry2
Oct 12th 2008, 09:06 AM
Dear jeffweeder, our Father is God, and Jesus is God given all power from the Father and Jesus will reign as God for 1000 years. The Father is the Ancient of days in Daniel 7:13, but we also see a reference to Jesus the judge as the Ancient of days in Daniel 7:9-10. Then in Daniel 7:14 it says of Jesus: "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

Daniel 7:22. "Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom." Here is where that the Ancient of Days is Christ Himself. At this time prophesied, Jesus is in power as absolute King of kings and passes out the duties of the saints.

Jesus is also shown as the Ancient of Days in Revelation 1:11-18 when He says of Himself: V11 am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. V14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; compare this with the description of the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:9 where it said: "the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."

Then when everything is brought under the control of Jesus ruling as the Ancient of Days for the 1000 years, 1 Corinthians 15:28 tells us that "when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 12:35 PM
:spin: Keep trying...not even close :lol:Uh oh, I smell something really weird coming. Please just spill it.

vinsight4u8
Oct 12th 2008, 02:21 PM
Understand that is Daniel's third vision of this chapter.

chapter 7
Daniel saw
visions

plural

So the reader must seek out where each begins and ends.

first vision
four great beasts
up from the sea

second vision
a fourth beast
ten horns
the little horn plucks up three of the first horns

first?
Yes! Not three of the ten - but three of the amount that Daniel saw first.

Acerohombre
Oct 12th 2008, 03:53 PM
Dan 7 parallels many of the events that you find throughout the Bible. What you are seeing here is a "condensed" version of the events that are outlined in Revelation beginning with Chapter 4 but mostly Chapter 5. It is important to note that the events seen in these visions take place in Heaven and not on the Earth as you will see in Dan Ch 11 and 12.

These verses speak of Jesus' ascension into Heaven. He is the one referred to as "like a Son of Man".
"I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
Acts1:9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

These next verses parallel the events in Rev Ch 5. Because these next events place Jesus at the throne of God, I disagree that it is anything other than His ascension rather than His second coming.
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
Rev 5: 7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

The rest is echoed in Rev as well. Again, if you read on in Rev 5 you see many of the same statements made.
"And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
Rev 5:12. Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, honour, and glory, and blessing.
13. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Now to parallel a bit more for you just so you can see that the events in the night visions are referencing the same events in Heaven. When you read Dan Ch 7 a bit further you see these verses:

Dan 7: 10. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him

Rev 5:11. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

jeffweeder
Oct 12th 2008, 09:54 PM
These verses speak of Jesus' ascension into Heaven.

BINGO, thanks Ace.

When has Jesus ever been presented before the father, except at the ascention?

If it refers to the second coming, why is he presented before him, when he just left his side?

He is given a kingdom and people of every tribe that they MIGHT serve him.
Again ,if this is refering to the 2nd coming, "might serve him" doesnt fit. If you havent served him by the time he comes again you may be in a spot of bother...


sorry have to go...back soon

jeffweeder
Oct 13th 2008, 05:25 AM
Hmmm, with that said, reading the whole of Dan 7, what implications does this have with the the little horn?

Some may think this a little foolish and out in left field, but i dont know it all, but it looks to me as its possible that it is talking about the ascention. Thought id ask the qu.
Anyone help me .

Third Hero----i saw your posts that were edited out and want you to know that i didnt have a amil adgenda when i raised this. It was an observation that i wanted to discuss despite the obvious difficulties. I dont apply my pre concieved ideas when studying scripture to make it fit to what i think. I see something interesting here thats all brother.

Maybe i am stupid, but you dont have to rub it in....anyway thanks for deleting them.

David Taylor
Oct 13th 2008, 02:35 PM
Brothers and Sisters,
Would you mind giving your opinion as to what this scripture refers too :idea:



13 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:VClk%28%27Da%207:13%27%29) "I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:VClk%28%27Da%207:14%27%29) "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Thankyou so much :kiss:

Jeff,
We have an OT prophecy depicting the Son of Man, another name for Jesus Christ; ascending into Heaven in victory, being given power and glory and honor above all things.

I see the above scripture passage as being fulfilled in these later NT scriptures:


"JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. " Luke 1:32
"And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;" Philippians 2:8
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. And it came to pass, while Jesus blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. " Matthew 28:18, Luke 24:51, Mark 16:19

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. " Acts 1:9

John146
Oct 13th 2008, 04:05 PM
Brothers and Sisters,
Would you mind giving your opinion as to what this scripture refers too :idea:



13 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:VClk%28%27Da%207:13%27%29) "I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:VClk%28%27Da%207:14%27%29) "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Thankyou so much :kiss:First of all, this scene occurs in heaven, as evidenced by the Son of Man coming up to the Ancient of Days, which we know is God the Father. Since this event takes place in heaven then that is good evidence that this event occurred when Christ ascended to heaven at the right hand of the Father. Compare the text from Daniel 7 above to this passage:

Ephesians 1
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Seems to fit quite well with Daniel 7:13-14.

Acerohombre
Oct 14th 2008, 12:45 AM
Acts 7

55. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Yes, it's quite clear.

Acerohombre
Oct 14th 2008, 03:35 AM
Hmmm, with that said, reading the whole of Dan 7, what implications does this have with the the little horn?I tell ya, I've had a tough time here and this is where it's starting to get to the limits of what I can offer. But, I'm not the only one. Here is where it starts to get to the point where many Christians offer different opinions as to who, what, where etc. Now, to me, maybe that means that to this point in time we still don't know. It's not like other parts of Daniel where we have history (like in the case of the Goat in Chapter 8) to convincingly compare to Daniel's vision.

Now, I would guess that the implications are that, not only this beast, but all four beasts were on the Earth before Christ ascended to Heaven. But too, there is also the implication that the Son of Man depicted is about to SIT in judgment so I don't think that it's explicitly clear that this fourth beast is alive on the earth at the time of Jesus' ascension. What we DO know is that the time of at least the fourth beast exists after Jesus has died and has been resurrected, and ascended because we see Jesus in Heaven. But, timing of the fourth beast is still inconclusive because the vision goes on the explain that God the Father destroys the beast as he is sitting in judgment. Obviously, has not happened yet.

Now consider the following verses from Chapter 7:
25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

From Daniel 12;
6. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

In other words, it's may be IMPLIED that this kingdom is present before Christ's ascension but it's far more conclusive by starting from the "back" end of the time period instead of pinpointing the beginning of it that this beast is present at the time mentioned by Jesus as the Abomination of Desolation, mentioned prior to these verses in Dan Ch 12.

Now, also, when you go back and take a close look at that fourth beast we can also imply other things;

The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms.

Does this imply that this beast is made up of the first three beast mentioned prior to this one (which would align it with the description of the beast in Rev 13) or does ALL mean ALL?

And shall devour the whole earth,
Does this mean war or consumption of resources like the United States is such a massive consumer of the worlds goods?

and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Does the breaking into pieces mean that since there is no more kingdoms (besides this one) that the breaking into pieces is countries, counties, cities, provinces?

Now consider this last verse:

Dan 7:24. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

While we don't know the KINGDOM of this beast we do know the internal makings of it. There will be ten kings within this ONE kingdom. Take the European Union of today for example. The European Union is an alliance currently made up of 27 European nations. The United Kingdom has a KING. Is it possible that somewhere down the line there will be a conglomeration of countries with a total of at least ten of them that have Kings as head of state within their overall combined union?

Now, if that is the case then we KNOW (no implication) that one king shall rise and supplant three of those existing ten kings. What we don't know if it will be by war or by other means. Again, implied is by flatteries. Since he has the mouth and brains, it appears as though it's going to be a rise to power from within the ten kings (diverse of the ten).

That's as much as I can offer. Good study. It's taken me about an hour and a half to build this response.:D

jeffweeder
Oct 14th 2008, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the effort ace, really appreciate it.
Still scratching my head over this one.
Feel like a dry rag today.
God bless ya heaps :hug: :kiss: :lol: