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Saved!
Oct 12th 2008, 07:33 PM
First off....a few years ago I was a regular church-going wife, mom, and employee. I was only mildly interested in end-times topics. Being raised pre-trib, I just assumed that I'd be going about my business one day and poof! I'd be gone with Jesus and did not have to worry about trials.

Then, I began to study a little, on my own. What I read convinced me to become post-trib, a term I'd never even heard of prior.

Just about that time I began to see, much more clearly, everything that was going on around me, socially, politically, economically, technologically, etc and realized that the end-times weren't going to happen "someday" they were quickly approaching.

Back in those days, with some of my research, I began to view 2008 as the year end-time changes would be obvious. But, 2008 was a few years off. I worried over how to prepare....I worried about how badly my Christian family was going to have to suffer before the end. I worried and worried and began to become depressed (yes, yes, I know that is wrong). To be honest, I wanted to go home to be with Jesus. And, I did not worry about what would happen to me. I am not afraid to die for my Savior. But, as a mom, the wife of a wonderful man, a sister, and the daughter of a precious mom and dad, it pains my heart to think of my family being physically harmed. I am only human.

At any rate, I found that I could not handle all that I knew and all that I saw on the horizon. So, while I stayed active in church and fully Christian, I re-joined life and kept myself from researching all topics that gave me more information that would furthur prove the end was near.

The past year or so has been busy for me. In addition to my family and my job, I am helping to care for a terminal father, going to college fulltime, and my husband opened a business. The feared 2008 came, and started out gentle. I even chided myself for fearing the year. I had most especially feared mid-2008. And, it came and went peacefully enough.

And then came the stock market's spiral down....and the government bailout....and Uk's bailout, etc. I started to see socialism and a return to thoughts on a one-world currancy and economy. And, well, I am back!!!

I do want to go home. I do want to be a soldier for Jesus. I do pray that I am given the strength to do what I am to do during the tribulation. I do know that God is in control.

But, why am I the only one that I know personally that is alarmed? I live in a rural area, and the member of a Baptist church. Everyone that I know is pre-trib. They aren't worried about a thing. They "know" they are going to be called out of this world at any minute. I have no one to cling to, know one to discuss world events with in person.

I thank God that I have the board. The moment I saw the tell-tale endtimes signs in the last week or so I ran to the boards, because I knew the folks here had their finger on the pulse of this thing.

I am left with so many questions still. I turn 40 this year and if I stay in college I will finish my Associates and begin University this Spring in order to become a school teacher...my lifelong dream. I work in a school that is predominately poor and minority children. They need me and I love them. I want to be a teacher to them some day. But, isn't any time spent in college wasted time? If the end is near, God may view my time (25 hrs a week in school in addition to 35 hr work week) as time I should have spent actively gaining souls to him. On the flip side, the apostles thought the end was near 2000 yrs ago. If I quit college and we are still here in 2 years I am going to be mighty mad at myself. Not to mention how hard it has been to study for mid-terms and keep focused on my goal of graduation not knowing if that is a possibility!

I just wanted to vent a little! And, look for encouragement from like-minded Christians.

third hero
Oct 12th 2008, 07:54 PM
As a post-tribber, I sympathize with you and your concerns. The global economic meltdown is really setting the stage for a group of billionaires to get together and "rescue" the world, further setting all of us up for the eventual advent of the Beast.

Although I see all of this, I know that God will use us when then time is right. I have had dreams detailing what He will have me do, but when I called on Him and attempted to start fulfilling what He showed me, He said to me, "wait on My call". That was when I was 22. I am 31 now, and I totally understand why He told me to wait. Since that day @ 22, I have experienced so many things that, if I was going to serve the Lord, I would have been expelled by now. (Most of it would have been my fault).

My point is this. Do what God has put into your heart to do. Not all of us are meant to be sowers, of reapers. Some of us are meant to be waterers, and others to be insecticides, and others to be the calming winds that moderate the crops so that they do not dry out or become cold. If God places it in your heart to bring souls to Him, then do that. If not, then consider this. Your life is also a testimony all to itself. The people that you meet everyday see your testimony without you even saying a word. Continue to live in obedience to the Lord, and do not be like me, who tried anyway to jumpstart His ministry only to be caught unprepared for the initial trials that eventually strolled my way, and derailed me.

Richard H
Oct 12th 2008, 08:30 PM
Hi Saved!, :)
I know how you feel to be “alone” with this understanding.
Pre-tribbers think of this as only a doctrinal issue.
They think it has no bearing on them, so it’s either “pre-trib or don’t talk to me”.

Some assume that we are talking about the wrath of God.
I’m of the opinion that it will be the seventh trumpet. That is the last trumpet when the dead in Christ are raised.
The bowels of wrath come after that. We are not destined for His wrath.

I got depressed for a little while, it’s natural. ‘Just like learning you may only have a few years left.
Eventually, this understanding drew me even closer to the Lord.

I will say that Jesus told us there would be scoffers.
People (even unbelievers) are expecting something in 2112, but there must be scoffers like after Y2K.
Things may look like they are lining up, but it may yet be a ways off.
Everything takes longer than we may expect.
Plan for your future and that of your family, and look forward to the time when Satan no longer has his claws on God’s creation.

In the mean time, be about your Father’s business and trust Him.
Bring the good news to those you love and those you meet.
Don’t bring them (babes) the seventh trump, but mentor where you can to help them mature in the faith.
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

Richard

Saved!
Oct 12th 2008, 08:40 PM
Quote by Third Hero:

My point is this. Do what God has put into your heart to do. Not all of us are meant to be sowers, of reapers. Some of us are meant to be waterers, and others to be insecticides, and others to be the calming winds that moderate the crops so that they do not dry out or become cold. If God places it in your heart to bring souls to Him, then do that. If not, then consider this. Your life is also a testimony all to itself. The people that you meet everyday see your testimony without you even saying a word. Continue to live in obedience to the Lord, and do not be like me, who tried anyway to jumpstart His ministry only to be caught unprepared for the initial trials that eventually strolled my way, and derailed me.
__________________
I appreciate you pointing this out to me. My husband is soooo gifted at reaching out to lost souls. He is great at it. He doesn't have to work at it, it comes naturally to me.

I am forever beating myself up that I am not that way. I have different gifts. But, the emphasis is rightly on saving souls...therefore my quieter ways leave me wondering if I am doing all that I can.

I have always felt God has something big planned for me, but never knew what it was. I'd often pray that God let me in on what I was suppose to be doing 'cause nothing seemed to be happening and I never felt I was living out my "role."

But, looking all around me, seeing how my eyes are soooo open to endtimes and how my interest in it coincides with a feeling that God plans to use me somehow here at the end, it is starting to come together.

However, I am a 106 lb, childlike-looking little blond lady with a Southern drawl and not used to taking any assertive role....well, I cannot think of how/why God would want to use me at such a pivotal time.

This morning in the shower I was thinking along those lines and physically feeling very, very small when I felt what seemed like a large hand on my head and I kept my eyes closed and remained in prayer as the shower ran. In seconds I felt physically large and filled with light. It only lasted a second.

Then, at church, the guest minister spoke right to my fears!!! and even looked me in the eye several times. I have had sermons to speak to me a few times before, and always when I needed it the most. Ain't God grand!

Again, thanks for helping out a sister!

Saved!
Oct 12th 2008, 08:46 PM
Quote by Richard H:
Donít bring them (babes) the seventh trump, but mentor where you can to help them mature in the faith.

I completely agree with you on this point. Part of what keeps me isolated is being reluctant to scare those I love. I realize what a joy it must be to be a pre-tribber. I know that if I explain to them why I believe posttrib, then explain why I feel the tribulation is right before us, I will cause them to be anxious. While I could be gone tomorrow in a car accident, I pray that I remain to help those around me to understand what is going on when the tribulation starts and they weren't whisked away,

Thank you for your words.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 12th 2008, 08:46 PM
Saved, you need to focus on the reality of the 2nd Coming at the end of the Tribulation. Your fear is based on the events of the Tribulation resulting in some sort of disaster that you fear coming on your family. However, in the end, things will conclude in triumph for you and your family (assuming they're all saved). Yes, we might have a period of terrible suffering to go through, but the important thing is that it's only temporary.

Yes, we will eventually lose the life we have today, just as Joseph lost the life he had in Canaan with his father Jacob and his brothers. He was unjustly sold into slavery and his life appeared at first to be a total disaster. But in the end, he wound up being the 2nd most powerful person in the world, second in command of the world's most powerful empire at that time.

Such will be the happy ending awaiting us at the end of the Tribulation. Keep the faith, sister. And keep your chin up too.

third hero
Oct 12th 2008, 08:50 PM
well saved, That's how God works. He knew that you were going ot be worried, and He had several people minister to you, so that you get the message He was sending to you. It's nice to not have to rely on angels to get those messages huh?! ;)

Well, here is what each and every one of us need to remember. This is a command from Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof. Matthew 6:25:34

Sorry, that was long, but His command is clear. We are not to worry about tomorrow, or even abouththe clothes that we wear, because God will take care of it all. Also, do not worry about tomorrow, because He got that taken care of as well. Seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness, and everything else will be given unto you.

... you know, I need to aply some of that myself...:spin:

Saved!
Oct 12th 2008, 08:55 PM
Saved, you need to focus on the reality of the 2nd Coming at the end of the Tribulation. Your fear is based on the events of the Tribulation resulting in some sort of disaster that you fear coming on your family. However, in the end, things will conclude in triumph for you and your family (assuming they're all saved). Yes, we might have a period of terrible suffering to go through, but the important thing is that it's only temporary.

Yes, we will eventually lose the life we have today, just as Joseph lost the life he had in Canaan with his father Jacob and his brothers. He was unjustly sold into slavery and his life appeared at first to be a total disaster. But in the end, he wound up being the 2nd most powerful person in the world, second in command of the world's most powerful empire at that time.

Such will be the happy ending awaiting us at the end of the Tribulation. Keep the faith, sister. And keep your chin up too.

Yes, I agree. I remind myself that we win in the end, and that knowledge alone helps me to keep me from spiralling down with the world around me. Thank you for encouraging me.

I had not thought of all that Joseph had lost prior to his lofty postion in Egypt, you are right!

Saved!
Oct 12th 2008, 08:57 PM
You are right Third Hero. God has always provided for me, even when I could not possibly see how He was going to do it. Thank you for reminding me.

third hero
Oct 12th 2008, 09:01 PM
Quote by Richard H:
Donít bring them (babes) the seventh trump, but mentor where you can to help them mature in the faith.

I completely agree with you on this point. Part of what keeps me isolated is being reluctant to scare those I love. I realize what a joy it must be to be a pre-tribber. I know that if I explain to them why I believe posttrib, then explain why I feel the tribulation is right before us, I will cause them to be anxious. While I could be gone tomorrow in a car accident, I pray that I remain to help those around me to understand what is going on when the tribulation starts and they weren't whisked away,

Thank you for your words.




I shared that fear, until I had that discussion with my wife, and showed her all of the scriptures that God showed me. I believe she believes as I do now, but she was never really interested in the end-times thing anyway. I would call her a pan-tribber, since she keeps on saying that it'll all work itself out in the end.

As of today, I am still concerned that many who call themselves believers will do a Benedict Arnold and betray their Lord beasue their end-time view is proven to be wrong. However, a time is coming, and is here now, where the post-trib's version, (the one most proven by the scriptures IMHO) is making a comeback, and will at least be known at many of the pre-tribbers now, and hopefully, by that knowledge, many of them will, as QD and several other pre-tribbers told me, just come along with the rest of us and strive to be faithful until the Lord returns.

In truth, all we can do is bring it up in conversations and pray for those who disagree. By worrying, we can not change anything, or anyone's POV.

Richard H
Oct 12th 2008, 09:42 PM
I'd add: if someone wants to know, then tell them and show them the Scriptures.
But we can't use it for evangelism - it just lacks the false attractiveness of pre-trib.
And I would not burden babes - they need to concentrate on growing.

Let's use the time wisely :hug: as we (me) should have been doing anyway.

One thing is for sure - we know how it all turns out.
We can look forward to being with God for way longer than this short life.

Yeshua/Jesus is able to keep His forever.
Richard

Daisymae
Oct 12th 2008, 10:17 PM
Saved,

I so agree with what everyone said in their postings. Great encouragement and teaching, y'all!

I just wanted to say that you teaching little ones is such an awesome way to show the love of Jesus. The Lord has gifted you to teach and encourage young, impressionable minds. That is a great responsibility.
Anything you have a passion for is where you should be. Your husband is gifted to witness to people. He is good at it because God made him that way. When we try to be something we are not we struggle, feel exhausted from the effort and in the end often feel like we have failed.
We only fail when we don't use what God has given us.

Keep up the good work!

Saved7
Oct 13th 2008, 12:27 AM
Hi Saved....Totally understand the alone thing, until I married the man that I did this year.:) As far as putting your life on hold based on seeing the ball rolling, well, can you see how far the ball has to roll? Where it is going to go? NO. My point? When I got saved, Jesus told me with such great urgency that He was coming back soon, that I thought it was only 3 years off.:help: That was about 9 years ago.;)

Nuff said.:cool:

larry2
Oct 13th 2008, 12:43 AM
Dear Saved, the following may apply to the things you feel against you, for many want nothing to do with us if we vary from their idea of what is truth. The Lord died for us all and we are precious in His eyes regardless. God bless you in Jesus' name -

Romans 14:3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Dani H
Oct 13th 2008, 12:56 AM
You are not alone. At all. And, don't worry about tomorrow, just keep your eyes on the King. Just as if He was here already. Because He is. In those who are His.

I am my Beloved's and He is mine.

:hug:

Saved!
Oct 13th 2008, 02:06 AM
Thank all of you that have taken the time to write.

When my family went back to church tonight I stayed home for some private time with God.

I told God the obvious....how I envisioned what I had "planned" for my own future....becoming a teacher, growing old with my beloved husband, seeing grandchildren, etc. I told Him that I was mourning what would not be. And, I gave Him thanks for the fact that I have been so blessed over the years. I told Him that I was sorry that I held onto my own plans...that I realized He had bigger ones.

I told Him that I realized what was going to happen had to happen and I accepted that. So, although I wanted to pray for relief from all the tribulations to come, I would instead ask for:

Courage and Strength and Freedom from Fear.

Already I am feeling some better...not back to the carefree days of the past, but not frozen with dread as I had been.

I know God loves me. I know that He has it all under His glorious control. I am going to have to constantly remind myself of that.

Thank you all again!

Literalist-Luke
Oct 13th 2008, 02:22 AM
Saved, don't give up on your dreams. If God has given you a calling to be a teacher, then you should pursue that. One thing that's difficult to understand for a lot of people is that life after the Rapture is not going to stop. We're not going to just sit around strumming harps and staring up into the clouds in an eternal state of "bliss". That's hogwash. During the Millennium, there will still be innumerable problems in the world. Not as bad as it is today of course, but the Bible doesn't speak of Jesus ruling with a "rod of iron" for no reason. There will be untold billions of people during the Millennium still in natural bodies who will be having children who will need teachers. You could have a 1000-year-long career ahead of you. Betcha hadn't thought about that part, huh? (Wow, can you imagine what the 401K will be like after 1000 years?!) As for growing old with your husband and having grandkids, once you are in your new, Raptured body, that desire will no longer be there. You won't miss it. So if you aren't in this world long enough to have your own grandchildren, trust me, you won't be sad about it. I'm not saying you'll be happy about it either, it just won't matter to you.

Think of it this way: When you were in grade school, if you were anything like me, one thing that was a big concern every day was whether or not your friends were going to let you play with them during recess. Remember that? And if somebody didn't let you play with them one day, that must mean that "they're not my friend anymore". And it would be a very traumatic thing. Now today, you have other concerns. I know, I know, your social life is still a very big thing (and it should be, there's nothing wrong with that), but if your friends or family go for one day without making you the focus of their attention, that doesn't mean that your relationship with them is in dire jeopardy like we would have thought in grade school. You have other concerns now. Bigger concerns that override today's "recess". It will be the same way about our concerns in this life. There will be a bigger picture that we can't even conceive of right now, but I can assure you that you won't be looking back.

I don't know if this is making any sense, I'm really not trying to muddy the waters for you. I'm just trying to explain in my own feeble way that the promises of the life awaiting you after this life are going to be so much more exciting, fulfilling, and meaningful than anything in this life ever could have been that you won't regret it. So think of it as something to look forward to. Go ahead and get everything you can out of this life, treat it as if you're going to live out your full lifespan. Indeed, you just might. People have been very surprised to make it to the end of their full lifespan for the last 2000 years, you might not be any different. But if you don't make it to the end of your full lifespan, if Jesus comes back first, I can assure you it'll be good news and it will be something for you to look forward to after the relatively short period of suffering that this world will have to go through.

The Tribulation is not the end of the world. It's the beginning of the world.

I hope this helps. :)

The Preacher
Oct 13th 2008, 02:42 AM
I have been a "post tribber" since my second year of being a christian. There was a time when I even bought a pocket sized bible because I thought the government would come and try to take it away. That was many years ago.
I then went through a hoarding phase when I wanted to keep enough survival items on hand to last awhile(it helped that I live in a hurricane prone area)
That was a number of years ago as well.
I have since realized that whatever I store up would be subject to theft when social order broke down. Unless I was ready to take a life in defense of it then it would be gone. I abandoned that idea. I have since adopted a view of total dependence on God. God will take care of us and preserve us. Those of us he chooses to be martyred he will strengthen to do so. If we walk with him them he will enable us by his grace to endure all with JOY!:bounce:

Saved!
Oct 13th 2008, 02:54 AM
Literalist-Luke, try as I can I am having difficulty wrapping my poor brain around the 1,000 year reign. Afterall, for years I had the simplist view that I would be raptured (or die prior) and go to Heaven and become an angel (seems silly now). So, the 1,000 year period is still new to me. I'd love the idea of being surrounded by children and living with Jesus for those 1,000 years! Is there a good source for me to learn more about the millineum?

Saved!
Oct 13th 2008, 03:00 AM
The Preacher-I, too, live in a Hurricane prone area and am used to storing up (hoarding). Also, I am over-protective of my family and felt safer saving up for their every need.

I once spoke to a preacher about how I should prepare. He said just what you've said....that save all that I want to...but someone would probably steal it or part me from it violently, or we'd have to kill many folks to keep it to ourselves.

Plus, how many folks do I save for? Me, my husband, and son, of course....but also my sick father, my mother that is busy caring for my sick father, my faith-weak brother, his wife, his son, my in-laws and my husband's siblings, my aunts, uncles and cousins, my neighbors, co-workers, friends, church family. Who, of those I've named, could I turn away from my door? None of them. So, whatever I had would be gone overnight out of love if not out of theft. So, I stopped preparing and decided that prayer was my best prepaparation.

RevLogos
Oct 13th 2008, 03:52 AM
Regardless of what lies ahead, there are a few things we can be certain of. Start with faith.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Trust the Lord to provide for you. Do not worry about tomorrow.
Mat 6:31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
Mat 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
Mat 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Mat 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

The Lord will be with us always:
Mat 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Do not be discouraged. The Lord will not forsake us:
Heb 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
Deu 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."
Deu 31:8 The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."

Scripture warns us of what is to come, not to frighten us, but to be encouraged by it.
1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 13th 2008, 06:01 AM
Literalist-Luke, try as I can I am having difficulty wrapping my poor brain around the 1,000 year reign. Afterall, for years I had the simplist view that I would be raptured (or die prior) and go to Heaven and become an angel (seems silly now). So, the 1,000 year period is still new to me. I'd love the idea of being surrounded by children and living with Jesus for those 1,000 years! Is there a good source for me to learn more about the millineum?The most direct source for the 1000 years is Revelation 20. I wouldn't stress yourself out over trying to figure out all the various details in there, but you'll no doubt notice the multiple references to "1000 years". That's where we get the basis for the length of Christ's Kingdom being 1000 years.

The most extensive description in the Bible that I can think of is located in Isaiah 65:17-20 -

"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.

I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. Never again will there be in it infants who live but a few days, or older people who do not live out their years; those who die at a hundred will be thought mere youths; those who fail to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands.

They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear.

The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD."

There's also a VERY extensive description of how the logistics of the Millennium will work in Ezekiel 40-48, although it's mostly descriptions of the Millennial Temple's measurements and where the tribal boundaries in Israel will be drawn. There's not a whole lot of detail given there about life in general during the Millennium. There are scattered references to the Millennium throughout the Old Testament prophets. Finding them all would be a pretty thorough Bible research project.

Basically what it comes down to is this:

1. Life in the Millennium is going to be relatively quiet for believers.

2. We will be working hard, but our labor will be fruitful and we will be able to enjoy the fruits of our labors.

3. There will be no war.

4. Any religion other than Christianity will be outlawed.

5. Jesus will be literally, physically present on the earth, mostly in Jerusalem, His world capital. He will rule the world with a "rod of iron" (Psalm 2)

6. The earth's environment is going to be given some sort of restoration to where the earth will be much more bountiful than it is now. I have some very extensive theories about this that I would be happy to discuss with you later, but I better not hijack your thread here.

7. The economy will be much simpler than it is today. People will not spend their lives accumulating riches off the poor like we see today, but everybody will be able to live very comfortably.

8. Death will be almost unheard of - one of the facets of the earth's environment being restored.

9. It will be a time of unparalleled productivity and prosperity in our history.

10. Satan will be locked up in hell and will be unable to work any mischief.

I could probably come up with more, but this should at least give you the idea. Does that sound like a world you could be happy in for a few centuries? :yes:

And that's what we have to look forward to after the merely seven years of the Tribulation! That's a pretty good deal, huh? 1000 years of paradise in exchange for seven years of Tribulation? And then eternity comes immediately after the 1000 years. You can find a description of eternity after the Millennium in Revelation 21-22. That's the only place in the entire Bible that discusses eternity after the Millennium. It's actually very similar to the Millennium, but the differences are that, first of all, there will be no lost people in our world in eternity where there will be some lost people in the Millennium, although they'll be strictly controlled. And secondly there will never ever be death or anybody being sick or unhappy. It will be one unending experience of joy in direct fellowship with our Creator and each other.

wombat
Oct 13th 2008, 02:05 PM
I am left with so many questions still. I turn 40 this year and if I stay in college I will finish my Associates and begin University this Spring in order to become a school teacher...my lifelong dream. I work in a school that is predominately poor and minority children. They need me and I love them. I want to be a teacher to them some day. But, isn't any time spent in college wasted time? If the end is near, God may view my time (25 hrs a week in school in addition to 35 hr work week) as time I should have spent actively gaining souls to him. On the flip side, the apostles thought the end was near 2000 yrs ago. If I quit college and we are still here in 2 years I am going to be mighty mad at myself. Not to mention how hard it has been to study for mid-terms and keep focused on my goal of graduation not knowing if that is a possibility!
Hi, Saved! It is my opinion and experience that God prepares us and uses us in many different ways, and if you are feeling called to be a teacher and that is the passion that Jesus has produced in your heart, then I would say keep at your studies. None of us knows for sure when our Lord will return, though we see the signs growing stronger all around us. Your training as a teacher may be exactly what He wants you to complete--He may use you in incredible ways to win souls with exactly what you are doing now. I think the key is to realize that we are called to witness for Him and to serve Him in whatever job and with whatever talents He is providing us. We don't need to drop everything while we are watching the skies for His return--we can be multitaskers, living our lives in service to Him, studying and accomplishing the tasks He is sending our way, talking to others about Him in whatever location or setting we have been led to, giving of ourselves, and all the rest that comes with a life of devotion to our Lord. So, yes, I would say stick with it if teaching is what you feel God is calling you to do--I have no doubts that He will use you mightily as His return grows nearer and nearer!

Literalist-Luke
Oct 13th 2008, 03:27 PM
I have no doubts that He will use you mightily as His return grows nearer and nearer!And afterward too.

TexasBeliever
Oct 13th 2008, 09:25 PM
Saved:

Sister, I can relate to what you have said. Just as you were, I was once also pretrib. I came to understand that was not what scripture was saying about two years ago. I was absolutely paralized with fear. Now it comes and goes. What happens in the future is beyond our control.
Jesus said to "pray constantly" and that is all we can do. I trust that the Lord will give us the strength and courage we need, when we need it.

And like you, I have no one in my life to discuss this with and to lean on. That is extremely hard. My mom is old and I pray that she will be with the Lord before things start getting bad. I have no children but my sister does and that worries me at times.

Please feel free to PM me anytime you want to! I will help you in anyway I can.

Lisa

Saved!
Oct 13th 2008, 09:49 PM
All of you have been so incredibly kind to comfort me as I dwelt in the depths. I am now feeling the peace I have prayed for and am grateful to the Lord for it.

And, Literalist-Luke, the 1,000 years you have described is music to my ears...although I still have much to learn about it.

Again, brothers and sisters, thank you for being there to minister to me. God has used you in a powerful way!

Dani H
Oct 13th 2008, 10:27 PM
Not to belittle your concerns ... and I can understand, because I, too, have had to settle some things with God as to how I would face giving my life, and watching my children being hurt and/or killed by overzealous, murderous fanatics.

But, we can't live in fear, as if the enemy was in control of our future, and not God. What kind of a life would that be? Today, we live by God's grace, according to His will and purpose. Let's live each day as if Jesus was going to come back today. And let's learn to die gracefully (to ourselves, that is) ... then the rest is going to be, as they say, gravy.

:)

Acerohombre
Oct 14th 2008, 12:31 AM
First off....a few years ago I was a regular church-going wife, mom, and employee. I was only mildly interested in end-times topics. Being raised pre-trib, I just assumed that I'd be going about my business one day and poof! I'd be gone with Jesus and did not have to worry about trials.

Then, I began to study a little, on my own. What I read convinced me to become post-trib, a term I'd never even heard of prior.

Just about that time I began to see, much more clearly, everything that was going on around me, socially, politically, economically, technologically, etc and realized that the end-times weren't going to happen "someday" they were quickly approaching.

Back in those days, with some of my research, I began to view 2008 as the year end-time changes would be obvious. But, 2008 was a few years off. I worried over how to prepare....I worried about how badly my Christian family was going to have to suffer before the end. I worried and worried and began to become depressed (yes, yes, I know that is wrong). To be honest, I wanted to go home to be with Jesus. And, I did not worry about what would happen to me. I am not afraid to die for my Savior. But, as a mom, the wife of a wonderful man, a sister, and the daughter of a precious mom and dad, it pains my heart to think of my family being physically harmed. I am only human.

At any rate, I found that I could not handle all that I knew and all that I saw on the horizon. So, while I stayed active in church and fully Christian, I re-joined life and kept myself from researching all topics that gave me more information that would furthur prove the end was near.

The past year or so has been busy for me. In addition to my family and my job, I am helping to care for a terminal father, going to college fulltime, and my husband opened a business. The feared 2008 came, and started out gentle. I even chided myself for fearing the year. I had most especially feared mid-2008. And, it came and went peacefully enough.

And then came the stock market's spiral down....and the government bailout....and Uk's bailout, etc. I started to see socialism and a return to thoughts on a one-world currancy and economy. And, well, I am back!!!

I do want to go home. I do want to be a soldier for Jesus. I do pray that I am given the strength to do what I am to do during the tribulation. I do know that God is in control.

But, why am I the only one that I know personally that is alarmed? I live in a rural area, and the member of a Baptist church. Everyone that I know is pre-trib. They aren't worried about a thing. They "know" they are going to be called out of this world at any minute. I have no one to cling to, know one to discuss world events with in person.

I thank God that I have the board. The moment I saw the tell-tale endtimes signs in the last week or so I ran to the boards, because I knew the folks here had their finger on the pulse of this thing.

I am left with so many questions still. I turn 40 this year and if I stay in college I will finish my Associates and begin University this Spring in order to become a school teacher...my lifelong dream. I work in a school that is predominately poor and minority children. They need me and I love them. I want to be a teacher to them some day. But, isn't any time spent in college wasted time? If the end is near, God may view my time (25 hrs a week in school in addition to 35 hr work week) as time I should have spent actively gaining souls to him. On the flip side, the apostles thought the end was near 2000 yrs ago. If I quit college and we are still here in 2 years I am going to be mighty mad at myself. Not to mention how hard it has been to study for mid-terms and keep focused on my goal of graduation not knowing if that is a possibility!

I just wanted to vent a little! And, look for encouragement from like-minded Christians.I think you are just feeling what most all of us feel at one time or another in that, you know, you see what's going on and you know that it's not just happenings.

The only other advice I can give is don't stop living your life. This is where all of us have to trust God. I know when the wife and I were married it was back when Desert Storm began and I just knew that with the millennium coming that not only was the end near but THE END was near. We never had kids. We never tended to things. We just stopped doing things because we just couldn't help but feel like the bottom was going to fall out.

I still feel kind of the same way now in that if Jesus returns in my lifetime I would not be surprised. We need to feel like that's possible but we also too need to just live.

RevLogos
Oct 14th 2008, 01:35 AM
And afterward too.
Agreed. We are not told much about Heaven.

1Co 2:9 But just as it is written, "Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him."

But I am quite sure we won't be sitting around on clouds playing harps and eating bagels and cream cheese. Personally, I think we'll be put to work using those talents the Lord has given us.

Dani H
Oct 14th 2008, 02:47 AM
Agreed. We are not told much about Heaven.

1Co 2:9 But just as it is written, "Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him."

But I am quite sure we won't be sitting around on clouds playing harps and eating bagels and cream cheese. Personally, I think we'll be put to work using those talents the Lord has given us.

Considering that God is always moving, always creating ... I can't wait. What universes do you think we may have a part of helping create? What other places exist we've never even thought of? I wish God would to kick the ceiling of our boxed-in thinking and give us just a glimpse of the reality of spending eternity with such a God. "Eye hath not seen and ear hath not heard" ... I can't wait to see and hear! :)

Gods Child
Oct 14th 2008, 03:45 AM
Quote by Richard H:
Don’t bring them (babes) the seventh trump, but mentor where you can to help them mature in the faith.

I completely agree with you on this point. Part of what keeps me isolated is being reluctant to scare those I love. I realize what a joy it must be to be a pre-tribber. I know that if I explain to them why I believe posttrib, then explain why I feel the tribulation is right before us, I will cause them to be anxious. While I could be gone tomorrow in a car accident, I pray that I remain to help those around me to understand what is going on when the tribulation starts and they weren't whisked away,

Thank you for your words.




Saved, As I read your post, the portion above that I highlighted stood out to me and these scriptures came to remembrance:


Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand

Perhaps, your job now is just to understand. Perhaps, this is what God is trying to show you. One thing is for sure, God will let you know when it is time to use what you know.

There is nothing more you need to do, but listen to him and trust him.
It seems to me that is exactly what you are doing. You are studying as God is opening your eyes to know what he wants you to know. When he is ready…That is the key…You will know what it is that he wants you to do with what he showed you.

If he wants you to witness to someone, you will know. If you don't know, then perhaps he did not ask you to? You just feel like you should, but God knows if that person is ready to hear it or if it is time for that person. Let God lead your steps and not try to run ahead of him.

The tribulation is still years off…I feel. Continue as you are unless God tells you otherwise, but during that time rely on him for everything and know that HE is GOD. Everything in it’s perfect timing through God.

I think that God is preparing his army now. Sort of like boot camp.
During boot camp you don’t get to fight, your just learning to sharpen your sword.

In preparing for the tribulation, we are all in boot camp right now. When God needs his army we will be ready with the sword of his word.


Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Pray to God for - truth, wisdom, discernment and understanding

Blessings unto you.

quiet dove
Oct 14th 2008, 03:51 AM
It all comes down to trusting God with all, everyday, starting now. That is not to insinuate that anyone here is not doing that, I don't mean that at all. I am the queen of "get in a mood" when I don't get my way or things get to heavy.

But, and sometimes I think women have the best deal. Sit down, have a good cry, and pray, lay it all out honestly before the Lord. He will get you straightened out, just "be still, and now he is Lord"

I think all of us, regardless of our end time views get that heavy feeling sometimes. We all have hopes, dreams, goals, whatever you want to call it. But the fact is we have to strive to be like Paul said, happy or content in all circumstances. I know easier said than done, at least easier to sit here and type than be most days.

I guess what I am trying to say is, with each day we continue to strive to be obedient, walk in the Spirit, and being honest with Jesus about all our feelings, fears, concerns, everything, is the best way to move in the right direction.

This heaviness that so many of us seem to be feeling lately may be our call to be in prayer more fervently and more fervently? Though we are all not in the same room together, we are still gathered together, and we know that where two or more are gathered to gether, He will be there. We should remember to pray for each other always. :hug:

Saved!
Oct 14th 2008, 08:31 PM
I remember praying, years ago, that God open my eyes to what He would have me to do....that He reveal His plan for me. Of course, I didn't have a clue what that plan could be (still don't know most of the details, of course). And, I believe that God has been slowly opening my eyes little by little ever since. Afterall, if I had to take it all in at once I might fly all apart! This way I get a little insight...I panic and pout for a few days and get back on with life...a little later on, more info and I panic and pout for a few days and so on.

If God is preparing me instruct others, well, what an honor that would be! I would not want to let Him down in any way.

I thank you for your words and encouragement. In fact, I love a goal and a plan and preparing ahead. So, perhaps I should try to focus on my life here as bootcamp, as mentioned, and realize that I may have a role in a "mission" during the tribulation.

I do feel God has bestowed peace on me over the last two days...and that He has used all of you to help bring that about in me.

God Bless.