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irv
Oct 13th 2008, 05:19 PM
Like everyone else, I have been watching the economy? Watching it go down down down. I also have been watching the Euro grow grow grow. Here is a quote from econmicshelp.org that will really make you think:


Governments hold foreign currency reserves to help deal with issues such as a depreciation in their currency. At the moment, the world’s biggest foreign currency reserve is the US dollar; about 64% of the World’s foreign currency reseves is currently denominated in dollars. This is because, historically, the US economy has been the most secure and powerful economy. However, with the continual decline in the dollar, many countries are fearing that the dollar is no longer the best currency to use and increasingly countries are switching to other currencies such as the Euro. To top this off we have seen oil prices drop, but we will also face another problem very soon. Here is another quote from the above site that deals with Pricing of Commodities in Dollars:


A separate, but related issue, is that most commodities, e.g. oil prices, are also priced in dollars. Oil prices are denominated in dollars because currently the dollar is the most common currency. If the dollar was to be replaced by the Euro as the world’s currency reserve; it is more than likely that we would see commodities priced in Euro’s. In fact, some countries are already starting to use the Euro rather than the dollar. I feel that we are seeing things happening around the world that will affect us Americans in the very near future. With the 2008 elections and the fall of the dollar our style of living will be changing. All I can say is; prepare yourself to start snuffing for your faith. The mark is coming and the one world government is on the way!

Semi-tortured
Oct 13th 2008, 06:09 PM
It isn't JUST our economy that's dropping. The entire country of Iceland is in danger of collapsing and going bankrupt. The UK just passed a similar bailout of their own. All of Eurpoe is struggling. The exchange rate hasn't changed all that much through the last week or two. (if I'm not mistaken, the dollar is actually stronger against the Euro now then it was a month ago and much stronger than it was 3 months ago.) This is a bad economic period, but the market has crashed harder in the past. This is a fixable problem.

irv
Oct 13th 2008, 07:22 PM
It isn't JUST our economy that's dropping. The entire country of Iceland is in danger of collapsing and going bankrupt. The UK just passed a similar bailout of their own. All of Eurpoe is struggling. The exchange rate hasn't changed all that much through the last week or two. (if I'm not mistaken, the dollar is actually stronger against the Euro now then it was a month ago and much stronger than it was 3 months ago.) This is a bad economic period, but the market has crashed harder in the past. This is a fixable problem.
Here is a good site to see the exchange rate of the dollar to other world currencies. http://money.cnn.com/data/currencies/

moonglow
Oct 13th 2008, 08:08 PM
Like everyone else, I have been watching the economy? Watching it go down down down. I also have been watching the Euro grow grow grow. Here is a quote from econmicshelp.org that will really make you think:

To top this off we have seen oil prices drop, but we will also face another problem very soon. Here is another quote from the above site that deals with Pricing of Commodities in Dollars:

I feel that we are seeing things happening around the world that will affect us Americans in the very near future. With the 2008 elections and the fall of the dollar our style of living will be changing. All I can say is; prepare yourself to start snuffing for your faith. The mark is coming and the one world government is on the way!

They are using the Euro simply because its worth more because our dollars has been worth less ..though is now starting to go back up. If we all used the same money, people couldn't do this...they couldn't use another countries money to buy things when another is low. Its like people were coming over here from Europe to New York buying up our goods using their money. It would not benefit us or them for everyone to use the same money. I am sorry I am terrible at trying to explain this...

God bless

third hero
Oct 13th 2008, 08:13 PM
They are using the Euro simply because its worth more because our dollars has been worth less ..though is now starting to go back up. If we all used the same money, people couldn't do this...they couldn't use another countries money to buy things when another is low. Its like people were coming over here from Europe to New York buying up our goods using their money. It would not benefit us or them for everyone to use the same money. I am sorry I am terrible at trying to explain this...

God bless

I actually agree, which means that the Mark has to be more than just a currency issue. There has to be a driving force that causes the world's currency to come under one banner.

theBelovedDisciple
Oct 14th 2008, 04:55 PM
A question for you... what will the be the 'financial climate' of the planet when the 'mark' is implemented as a sign of worship and dedication to the anti christ and his kingdom...

Will money like dollars, euro dollars, pounds, quarters, pennies even be useful? According to Scripture... buying and selling will be 'done' by showing the 'mark'... people who use dollars and euro dollars show their allegiance to the USA and European Union.. or Kuwait or Russia or England... For sombody who 'want's worldwide Worship as 'God' himself... I'm very certain the AC will dispose of any type of 'monetary system' that does not give him the glory and worship as God..... he will dispose of any type of monetary system that does not have his image on it.. or his fingerprint... he will dispose of this as he will the false church or harlot... setting himself as god..


also.. during that time when the 'mark' is implemented... Scripture declares that God Himself will pour out His wrath like never before upon this planet and its inhabitants... tribulation like it was never before.. the Time of Jacob's Trouble... when all these earthquakes and pestiliences hit.. the sky literally falling to the earth..

do you think we will have the same type of vast infrastructure like water, heat, lights ,plumbing, internet, electronics etc? I have a distinct impression that it will not be that easy.. as these things will be limited due to the destruction...

Do you think u'll be able to walk into the local grocery store who is without power. to get some bread or even water? Those things like electricty will be limited and geared towards those who will promote the AC and his kingdom.... TV Radio and stuff like that.. thats why the vast use of any kind of currency during this will probably not even exist.. but the 'mark' will.. making it easy for those who take it and show their allegiance to the false messiah.. they will be able to buy and sell at ease...

The AC will make it seem so simple to solve all these problems.. by issuing that mark... he will decieve and make it seem as it was from God Himself... but those taking it will seal their doom Eternally...

tango
Oct 14th 2008, 05:02 PM
The British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, has been calling for a global solution to the economic turmoil. So that could be a warning sign, might then again it might be nothing of the sort.

Fundamentally the currencies we use in the west consist of nothing more than bits of paper with ink on them. They have no intrinsic value of their own, they are accepted simply because we have confidence that we can exchange them for something else later on. An ongoing collapse of confidence in western banking could lead to people hoarding currency in their homes. A collapse in the currency (much like the Weimar republic or, more recently, Zimbabwe) would likely lead to people spending cash as soon as they got it, before it devalued. That in turn could lead to stronger nations taking over weaker nations, politically and economically.

This turmoil could lead to global financial meltdown, which could result in a global intervention to halt the decline, which in turn could provide the ideal ground for the antichrist to rise from the ashes. But there are a lot of "could"s in that sentence. It's worth watching and being wary, but not good to get too caught up in what might be that we miss what is.

markdrums
Oct 14th 2008, 05:29 PM
Like everyone else, I have been watching the economy? Watching it go down down down. I also have been watching the Euro grow grow grow. Here is a quote from econmicshelp.org that will really make you think:

To top this off we have seen oil prices drop, but we will also face another problem very soon. Here is another quote from the above site that deals with Pricing of Commodities in Dollars:

I feel that we are seeing things happening around the world that will affect us Americans in the very near future. With the 2008 elections and the fall of the dollar our style of living will be changing. All I can say is; prepare yourself to start snuffing for your faith. The mark is coming and the one world government is on the way!



I have to disagree with this.

I think a lot of people still interpret the "mark" as a literal, physical mark of some kind.
However, if we look at the meanings of "the forehead" & "the right hand" all through the entire Bible, we find that these are metaphoric terms for what a person believes & what a person does.

The "Beast / AntiChrist" wanted to mimic / parody the "mark" of the LORD.
We're all "marked" with the seal of God as believers. It's obvious who we belong to, who we follow, and who we put our trust & alegience in by what we think & believe; and by what we do / how we act / live.

The "mark of the beast" was a spiritual mark, that dictataed whether people followed Christ, or the Roman Empire.

We don't have a physical "mark" on us from God, being believers. We have the mark in our hearts, minds, spirits, (forehead) & we Act / behave / live a different way. Not according to the world, but according to Christ. (right hand).

So, that's why I don't see anything dealing with the economy & upcoming elections etc... as having to do with a "FUTURE mark of the beast".

John was explicitly clear when writing TO the seven churches in Asia... he said these things must SOON take place, & the time was AT HAND. His warnings were written directly TO THEM, since the events were looming on the horizon.

Many people want to describe the "mark" as a future, LITERAL, PHYSICAL mark, thinking we must interpret everything in the Bible LITERALLY whenever possible.
-Yet, they fail to LITERALLY interpret John's message to the seven churches as being LITERALLY SOON to them.

My advice here is the same that I give in other places:
Look to the Bible for proper interpretation, rather than CNN & Wall Street.

The key to understanding REVELATION, is to interpret it based on what the OLD TESTAMENT offers. (That's how the disciples did it. They understood the meanings of OT language, applied them to Jesus' prophecies, as well as John's.)

;)

Semi-tortured
Oct 14th 2008, 06:49 PM
Here is a good site to see the exchange rate of the dollar to other world currencies. http://money.cnn.com/data/currencies/

That tells me what it is now. Over the last 3 months, the dollar has made some significant strides against the Euro.

theBelovedDisciple
Oct 14th 2008, 07:29 PM
I have to disagree with this.

I think a lot of people still interpret the "mark" as a literal, physical mark of some kind.
However, if we look at the meanings of "the forehead" & "the right hand" all through the entire Bible, we find that these are metaphoric terms for what a person believes & what a person does.

The "Beast / AntiChrist" wanted to mimic / parody the "mark" of the LORD.
We're all "marked" with the seal of God as believers. It's obvious who we belong to, who we follow, and who we put our trust & alegience in by what we think & believe; and by what we do / how we act / live.

The "mark of the beast" was a spiritual mark, that dictataed whether people followed Christ, or the Roman Empire.

We don't have a physical "mark" on us from God, being believers. We have the mark in our hearts, minds, spirits, (forehead) & we Act / behave / live a different way. Not according to the world, but according to Christ. (right hand).

So, that's why I don't see anything dealing with the economy & upcoming elections etc... as having to do with a "FUTURE mark of the beast".

John was explicitly clear when writing TO the seven churches in Asia... he said these things must SOON take place, & the time was AT HAND. His warnings were written directly TO THEM, since the events were looming on the horizon.

Many people want to describe the "mark" as a future, LITERAL, PHYSICAL mark, thinking we must interpret everything in the Bible LITERALLY whenever possible.
-Yet, they fail to LITERALLY interpret John's message to the seven churches as being LITERALLY SOON to them.

My advice here is the same that I give in other places:
Look to the Bible for proper interpretation, rather than CNN & Wall Street.

The key to understanding REVELATION, is to interpret it based on what the OLD TESTAMENT offers. (That's how the disciples did it. They understood the meanings of OT language, applied them to Jesus' prophecies, as well as John's.)

;)


I'm not going to get into a debate as to what the 'mark' is... as to respect the OP's first post.. but I totally disagree 100% with what you said..... but your entiteld to your opinions.........be it as it may.....

markdrums
Oct 14th 2008, 08:09 PM
I'm not going to get into a debate as to what the 'mark' is... as to respect the OP's first post.. but I totally disagree 100% with what you said..... but your entiteld to your opinions.........be it as it may.....


There are a couple questions to ask yourself;
Are we, or are we not sealed with a "mark" from God?

If we're sealed with GOD'S mark, do we have a physically noticable mark? No.

The "mark" of the Beast, would be a parody, or mimic of God's mark... which would be spiritual in nature.

Also, I realize a lot of people have trouble accepting NERO as "the Beast" whose name = 666. But there is a TON of historical evidence to support that.

One website with a GREAT explanation of this can be found here.
http://forerunner.com/beast/X0002_Gentry_-_Beast_of_Re.html

Another question to ask yourself is this: If the Old Testament examples of the forehead & right hand have a specific meaning, why wouldn't they mean the same things in the NEW TESTAMENT?

That's all I'm pointing out, & is the reason why I don't think current events of TODAY can be tied into Biblical prophecy / eschatology.

Partaker of Christ
Oct 14th 2008, 11:13 PM
I have to disagree with this.

I think a lot of people still interpret the "mark" as a literal, physical mark of some kind.
However, if we look at the meanings of "the forehead" & "the right hand" all through the entire Bible, we find that these are metaphoric terms for what a person believes & what a person does.

The "Beast / AntiChrist" wanted to mimic / parody the "mark" of the LORD.
We're all "marked" with the seal of God as believers. It's obvious who we belong to, who we follow, and who we put our trust & alegience in by what we think & believe; and by what we do / how we act / live.

The "mark of the beast" was a spiritual mark, that dictataed whether people followed Christ, or the Roman Empire.

We don't have a physical "mark" on us from God, being believers. We have the mark in our hearts, minds, spirits, (forehead) & we Act / behave / live a different way. Not according to the world, but according to Christ. (right hand).

So, that's why I don't see anything dealing with the economy & upcoming elections etc... as having to do with a "FUTURE mark of the beast".

John was explicitly clear when writing TO the seven churches in Asia... he said these things must SOON take place, & the time was AT HAND. His warnings were written directly TO THEM, since the events were looming on the horizon.

Many people want to describe the "mark" as a future, LITERAL, PHYSICAL mark, thinking we must interpret everything in the Bible LITERALLY whenever possible.
-Yet, they fail to LITERALLY interpret John's message to the seven churches as being LITERALLY SOON to them.

My advice here is the same that I give in other places:
Look to the Bible for proper interpretation, rather than CNN & Wall Street.

The key to understanding REVELATION, is to interpret it based on what the OLD TESTAMENT offers. (That's how the disciples did it. They understood the meanings of OT language, applied them to Jesus' prophecies, as well as John's.)

;)

I don't find anywhere in scripture that says, satan has the power or ability to put a 'spiritual mark' upon man.

Are we to believe that because God can do it, then satan can?

Can you show us please?

Partaker of Christ
Oct 14th 2008, 11:22 PM
There are a couple questions to ask yourself;
Are we, or are we not sealed with a "mark" from God?

If we're sealed with GOD'S mark, do we have a physically noticable mark? No.

The "mark" of the Beast, would be a parody, or mimic of God's mark... which would be spiritual in nature.

Also, I realize a lot of people have trouble accepting NERO as "the Beast" whose name = 666. But there is a TON of historical evidence to support that.

One website with a GREAT explanation of this can be found here.
http://forerunner.com/beast/X0002_Gentry_-_Beast_of_Re.html

Another question to ask yourself is this: If the Old Testament examples of the forehead & right hand have a specific meaning, why wouldn't they mean the same things in the NEW TESTAMENT?

That's all I'm pointing out, & is the reason why I don't think current events of TODAY can be tied into Biblical prophecy / eschatology.

Were does it say, we are sealed with a mark?

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Were does it say that the 'mark' of the beast is a seal?

vinsight4u8
Oct 14th 2008, 11:41 PM
To understand what is taking place at the beginning of Rev. 7

check into Ezekiel 7 and chapters 9-10


Rev. 7 is a give us more details chapter as to seals 4-6.
Before Rev. 8 - we find the great tribulation has ended.

markdrums
Oct 14th 2008, 11:46 PM
I don't find anywhere in scripture that says, satan has the power or ability to put a 'spiritual mark' upon man.

Are we to believe that because God can do it, then satan can?

Can you show us please?

I didn't say Satan can put a mark on us; Whether it be spirtual or physical. WE CHOOSE the mark we receive. Period.

Partaker of Christ
Oct 15th 2008, 12:03 AM
I didn't say Satan can put a mark on us; Whether it be spirtual or physical. WE CHOOSE the mark we receive. Period.


Thanks!

How is it that 'he causeth' [to make or do] all to receive a mark?

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


How is it that they had got victory over his mark?

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Dani H
Oct 15th 2008, 01:02 AM
2 Corinthians 1:21-2321 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Newsflash: We who belong to Jesus have already been sealed. :)

quiet dove
Oct 15th 2008, 02:32 AM
Like everyone else, I have been watching the economy? Watching it go down down down. ...

I feel that we are seeing things happening around the world that will affect us Americans in the very near future.

I thinkthe economy and terrorism threats are all moving us in a direction that will certainly change our country. It seems that with both of these we continue to become less and the government continues to become more. Manuvering us all into a place where when they do "make it better" we will gladly accept. Like when gas prices rise way up to $4 and more a gallon back down to $3.00 we all go yea!!, but before the crisis the prices were belowe $3.00, but somehow $3.00 sounds good now.

markdrums
Oct 15th 2008, 12:59 PM
Thanks!

How is it that 'he causeth' [to make or do] all to receive a mark?

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


How is it that they had got victory over his mark?

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.


I think I understand what you're asking....

As far as "causing" them to receive a mark - Think of it as being a "requirement". You either chose Caesar, & worshiped, followed, & lived by HIS command, or you chose CHRIST & were killed for it.
So, requiring them to make that choice decided which mark they received. The Beast's mark, or God's mark.

Getting victory over the mark, and the beast, & the number, was the result of the people who refused to side with Caesar & instead, follow Christ. They were victorious by their decision to "pick the winning team" so to speak! ;) Which is ALWAYS GOD'S team.

quiet dove
Oct 15th 2008, 03:58 PM
This thread is off topic, which is "How might the economy problems be related to end times". Granted the MOB is related, but it is not the topic with all its rabit trails. Relate the MOB to the economy but beyond that is outside the OP.

irv
Oct 15th 2008, 07:07 PM
This thread is off topic, which is "How might the economy problems be related to end times". Granted the MOB is related, but it is not the topic with all its rabit trails. Relate the MOB to the economy but beyond that is outside the OP. Thank you quiet dove

irv
Oct 15th 2008, 08:34 PM
I retired from Federal Mogul 2 ˝ years ago, so I keep track on what is going on with the company because I still have many friend (brothers and sisters in the Lord) working there. I found this on the Internet this morning. It was posted Sept 18. It talks about 20,000 people losing their jobs and an additional 16,000 dropping out or moving out of the market. For the whole story see http://www.mlive.com/grpress/business/index.ssf/2008/09/grim_unemployment_news_hits_ho.html

I feel we have hit the top of the economy mountain and we are on our way down a steep slope at a very fast rate of speed. We will be going through some hard times and with that said, it will issue in other problems. I am not normally a pessimist but an optimist, so this is something I would not be saying. I pray I am wrong, but I don’t think so.