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larry2
Oct 13th 2008, 06:02 PM
In you opinion what is an heir versus a joint heir? Does one have an advantage over the other and to what purpose?

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

ZuriCH
Oct 13th 2008, 06:08 PM
In you opinion what is an heir versus a joint heir? Does one have an advantage over the other and to what purpose?

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

I understand it as us being the heirs of God the father, and sharing the
inheritance with his Son, or rather, Him sharing it with us, thus we are
joint heirs with him.

Firstfruits
Oct 13th 2008, 06:52 PM
I understand it as us being the heirs of God the father, and sharing the
inheritance with his Son, or rather, Him sharing it with us, thus we are
joint heirs with him.

According to the Gospel, who are the children of God and therefore the joint heirs with Christ?

Firstfruits

larry2
Oct 13th 2008, 06:55 PM
Thanks for your reply ZuriCH. I posted this to bring forth a difference with the two positions as believers. When reading this it basically says that every believer is an heir of God as His child. Then that brings to us to a very special difference, and that being a joint heir is very different; it means sharing equally with Christ what He has. But there is a qualification to this reward, and that is to suffer, or enduring with Christ. The verse says that we will be joint heirs IF so be that we suffer with Him.

In Jesus -

AliveinChristDave
Oct 13th 2008, 07:12 PM
In you opinion what is an heir versus a joint heir? Does one have an advantage over the other and to what purpose?

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

We'd probably think of a joint heir as someone with whom an inheritance is divided even up. Half to each.
But with Christ, we become all He is. All that the Father gives Him, which is everything, is also promised to us if we meet the conditions which is to suffer with him. Suffering is another topic.

ananias
Oct 13th 2008, 07:45 PM
The last Adam is the heir o God. We are IN HIM through faith in Him.

ananias

Lars777
Oct 13th 2008, 07:55 PM
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba, Father!" it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. (Romans 8:14-17)



You will notice that the apostle uses two words, "children" and "sons." There is a difference between "children" and "sons" -- between a child of God and a son of God.

All true Christians, as the apostle points out here, are children of God -- born into the family by faith in Jesus Christ. This experience our Lord Jesus himself called being "born of the Spirit," (John 3:8 RSV) -- the new birth, when, by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross, we believe God and are born into the family of God. These are the children of God.

Now, the sign of a child of God is that he knows the Father. That is always a sign that you belong to the family -- you know the father. This is set forth here in this expression of "Abba! Father!" "Abba" is the Hebrew (or, more exactly, Aramaic) word for "father" and it is the first sound that a baby makes.

This is the first mark of new life in Jesus Christ, the sign of being a Christian, the sign of being a child of God -- you know the Father. But the sign of a son is somewhat different.

The sign of a son of God is that he is an heir of God, and has begun to possess and enjoy his inheritance. I realize that the son and the child are the same person.

If you are a child, this also makes you the potential heir -- this is certainly true. But there is a difference between entering into the full possession of your inheritance and simply having it held in abeyance for you until you reach your age of majority.

This is what the apostle is talking about here. In other words, until you begin to live in the fullness of the Spirit of God, you are like a minor child who has not yet entered into his inheritance.

For it is those "who are led by the Spirit of God" who "are the sons of God." This is what he is talking about all along. Paul is trying to urge us to enter into our inheritance.

This picture that he draws comes from the Roman custom of adopting their children. A Roman father, if he had male children, never referred to them as his sons until they were of age.

They were his children, but they were not his sons. But, when they became of age (which was about 14 in the Roman system) he took them down to the public forum, and, there, they were publicly adopted by their own father and thereafter regarded as his heirs.

They entered into participation in their father's business, and had a share in his inheritance. This is what Paul is referring to here. As long as we are just children of God we know the Father, we are in the family of God, but we never begin to enter into our inheritance until we learn to walk in the Spirit as sons of God.

larry2
Oct 13th 2008, 09:12 PM
Dear Lars777, I think you're pretty much right on point if I understand your reply correctly.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Here is three different levels of submission to the Lord, and they will produce different results.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: This shows the growth desired in us.

In heaven there are kings and priests, and there are servants; they are not all on the same level of reward, and that better reward is being the joint heir. There is going to be a bride, or wife of the Lamb and we read a type of this in Esther 5:3. "Then said the king unto her, What wilt thou, queen Esther? and what is thy request? it shall be even given thee to the half of the kingdom. Esther is a joint heir.

Thanks everyone for your responses in Jesus' name-

threebigrocks
Oct 13th 2008, 09:54 PM
In you opinion what is an heir versus a joint heir? Does one have an advantage over the other and to what purpose?

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

It is the same thing. If we are Christian, God is our Father. We are children, sons or daughters, of the Father. So is Christ, who is the Son of the Father. No difference. Means the same thing, just from a different relational point of view.

I'm my mothers daughter, but I'm also my aunt's niece. ;) Doesn't change my place in the family, just the way we relate to each other.

Richard H
Oct 13th 2008, 10:30 PM
In you opinion what is an heir versus a joint heir? Does one have an advantage over the other and to what purpose?

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
I don't see a "versus" situation.
I do see an "and".

;)

larry2
Oct 14th 2008, 12:00 AM
Hi Richard,

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Quoting Richard -I don't see a "versus" situation.
I do see an "and".

Response - What about the word"IF"

Thanks

larry2
Oct 14th 2008, 12:07 AM
Dear threebigrocks, I do see what you are saying as to being sons of the Father, and brothers with Jesus, but there is still the word "IF" so be that we suffer with Him.

Thanks

larry2
Oct 14th 2008, 12:21 AM
Quoting Alivein ChristDave - We'd probably think of a joint heir as someone with whom an inheritance is divided even up. Half to each. But with Christ, we become all He is. All that the Father gives Him, which is everything, is also promised to us if we meet the conditions which is to suffer with him. Suffering is another topic.

Response - But in this case the word "Suffer" can also mean to endure.

Quoting ananias - The last Adam is the heir o God. We are IN HIM through faith in Him.

Response - Yes we are but that only makes us children. To be a joint heir we must suffer with Him or endure with Him. Thanks ananias

Quoting Firstfruits - According to the Gospel, who are the children of God and therefore the joint heirs with Christ?

Response - Again here we have to qualify for that by suffering or enduring - thanks


Quoting Zurich - I understand it as us being the heirs of God the father, and sharing the
inheritance with his Son, or rather, Him sharing it with us, thus we are
joint heirs with him.

Response - If this were true, being an heir would be the same as jopint heir without qualification other than being a child of God - thanks

Richard H
Oct 14th 2008, 12:21 AM
Hi Richard,

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Quoting Richard -I don't see a "versus" situation.
I do see an "and".

Response - What about the word"IF"

Thanks
Heehee

The larger text is talking about battle between the flesh and the spirit.

Jesus – an heir of GOD through obedience unto death - suffered for our sins.
Likewise, we must identify with His suffering and we should count any suffering on our part, as an expected expression of our liberation from the law of sin and death.

Better?

larry2
Oct 14th 2008, 12:57 AM
Dear Brother Richard, You got it but our battle with the flesh is the major part of our suffering or enduring with Him.

Now I will add a tidbit to our efforts. We read in 2 Timothy 2:11-12.

2 Timothy 2:11 "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:"

2 Timothy 2:12 "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" If we deny Jesus the right of suffering with Him, He will deny us the right to reign with Him as a joint heir.

Richard H
Oct 14th 2008, 01:14 AM
Thatís a good lesson for us, Larry. J Something to remember in everyday battles with the flesh and even the potential of any persecution.
Thanks.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:35-39