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Marc2x
Oct 14th 2008, 03:34 AM
I like historic war movies or some that maybe considered historic.I like movies like 300 and Gladiator and a few more.Is it a sin to watch these kind of movies?300 has a few scenes that invovle nudity and sex but i skip all that.Is it sin?I don't really watch anything else r-rated except these.......

Buzzword
Oct 14th 2008, 03:50 AM
It's between you and God.
Nuff said.

Athanasius
Oct 14th 2008, 04:53 AM
It's between you and God.
Nuff said.

Which is between God? Watching the R-rated movie or watching explicit sex scenes within the R-rated movie? I would say the [former] is between him and God, the latter isn't.

scourge39
Oct 14th 2008, 06:42 AM
If the entire Bible were turned into a movie, there would be plenty of nudity, sex and violence in it. Sometimes depicting nudity, drunkenness and the like is appropriate on screen. Ask yourself why it's there, does it serve to illustrate human sinfulness in a way that reminds us of our need of redemption, or does it glorify the sinful behavior being depicted? A movie like Schindler's List is much different than Fight Club. Schindler's List used nudity to show viewers that Schindler's aid to the Jews was noble, but his morals behind closed doors were not. Iron-Man shows how wealth and alcohol can corrupt someone and later how wealth and intellect can be used to benefit others.

Scripture isn't bashful about it's use of sexual imagery to make valid points:

Proverbs 5:16 uses the imagery of 'springs' to illustrate the folly of male sexual promiscuity. The Hebrew word used there refers to male semen. And of course, there's Ezekiel's description of idolatrous Israel's partners as 'gifted' donkeys whose seminal emissions were like that of horses (Ezekiel 23:20).

Buzzword
Oct 14th 2008, 12:20 PM
If the entire Bible were turned into a movie, there would be plenty of nudity, sex and violence in it. Sometimes depicting nudity, drunkenness and the like is appropriate on screen. Ask yourself why it's there, does it serve to illustrate human sinfulness in a way that reminds us of our need of redemption, or does it glorify the sinful behavior being depicted? A movie like Schindler's List is much different than Fight Club. Schindler's List used nudity to show viewers that Schindler's aid to the Jews was noble, but his morals behind closed doors were not. Iron-Man shows how wealth and alcohol can corrupt someone and later how wealth and intellect can be used to benefit others.

Scripture isn't bashful about it's use of sexual imagery to make valid points:

Proverbs 5:16 uses the imagery of 'springs' to illustrate the folly of male sexual promiscuity. The Hebrew word used there refers to male semen. And of course, there's Ezekiel's description of idolatrous Israel's partners as 'gifted' donkeys whose seminal emissions were like that of horses (Ezekiel 23:20).

^this^

Prime example is 300.
There are two major sex scenes in the movie, one between Leonidas and his wife, the other a drunken orgy in Xerxes' tent.

The two are used with other images in the film as juxtaposition between the pure warrior spirit of the Spartans, and the barbaric tendencies of the Persians.

SeekingWisdom
Oct 14th 2008, 01:53 PM
I don't look at things like "is this a sin or not?" because sometimes things aren't technically stated as sinful in the Bible but you still shouldn't do it. I think a lot of the times asking that question is a way to justify inappropriate behavior.

Instead, I say "would I do/say/watch this if Jesus was sitting right here?"

scourge39
Oct 14th 2008, 04:09 PM
Instead, I say "would I do/say/watch this if Jesus was sitting right here?"

If you're a believer, the Spirit indwells you and abides with you continually. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jesus several times in the NT. Don't forget, God is also omnipresent. So there's never a time when Jesus is not seeing what we do. We can't escape his presence, so the above 'litmus test' is a false one.

SeekingWisdom
Oct 14th 2008, 09:59 PM
If you're a believer, the Spirit indwells you and abides with you continually. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jesus several times in the NT. Don't forget, God is also omnipresent. So there's never a time when Jesus is not seeing what we do. We can't escape his presence, so the above 'litmus test' is a false one.

Thanks but this comment is irrelevant to the one I made considering the context of this conversation.

Of course Jesus sees everything but do you think people are thinking about that when they are watching nudity and orgies on TV? Or are they thinking "is this technically sinful because it's historical and the bible has sex too. I am not watching for the sex I am watching for the history".

Therefore my point was don't try to squirm your way out of admitting when something is wrong. Instead look to the side of you and imagine Jesus is sitting right there. Now that you see Him ask yourself if you'd still do what you were about to do.

I don't want to be dragged into an argument over this so that's all I have to say. Have a nice day.

scourge39
Oct 14th 2008, 10:12 PM
It's not irrelevant. It assumes a wrong view of God's abiding presence.

A cinematic portrayal of David's sin with Bathsheba would not teach the lesson Scripture intends without showing something that directly points to their affair. I doubt that it would impact viewers at all. I'm not advocating watching gratuitous sex for the sake of watching sex. If a movie shows a graphic sex scene and then the rest of the story deals with the consequences of promiscuity/ adultery (pregnancy, divorce, etc.), that's a positive use of sex on screen. People contemplating illicit sex and adultery may need that kind of shock to be brought to their senses.

unkerns
Oct 14th 2008, 11:33 PM
tell you what go online and look up clean movies, I got a pg-13 version of 300 on there

Marc2x
Oct 15th 2008, 02:38 AM
So im guessing its ok?I don't watch to many r-rated unless its worth seeing.....oh and I go to christiananswers.net for movie reviews.

Chimon
Oct 17th 2008, 01:43 AM
So im guessing its ok?I don't watch to many r-rated unless its worth seeing.....oh and I go to christiananswers.net for movie reviews.

As long as they are causing you to sin, such as through lust or idolatry or such, I see nothing wrong with it, speaking from a Biblical standpoint. However, it may be wise to be on your guard when you watch R rated movies.

In regard to scourge's point about the Bible being sexual, check out Ezekiel 23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ez%2023&version=51) for a lesson on how God sees sin.

Levin
Oct 17th 2008, 08:40 AM
More than anything else with movies in general, especially those with more graphic violence/sex, make sure that you are watching movies critically. I don't think that you would let yourself listen to music with explicit lyrics while you are really sleepy or not paying attention, and yet we often let ourselves watch movies that argue for terrible worldviews and images of God and man without a second thought. We refuse to think about what movies are trying to prove, and get swept up in the entertainment or intensity of it. Watching a movie with a terrible worldview is the same as listening to music with explicit lyrics: do it with a critical mind and an attempt to learn things from it, but don't do it just for entertainment.

Examples (I am not trying to be extensive, but I'm just giving a taste):
Cast Away: This movie argues for an existentialist view of reality, in which the only thing man can control is his death. When the main character fails to hang himself, he fails to actualize himself and fails in his greatest achievement. The world has nothing for him when he returns; there is no glory in living life. Death is ultimate reality: it must be embraced.

The Matrix Trilogy: In this trilogy the ability/will of man is worshiped. Neo is not the "One" until he wants to be. He is able to be the "One" when he wants; he is actualized. It is his choice; he is the greatest power in his life.

I could go into this much more, but let me know what you think and what some worldviews of other movies are.

Thanks,
Levin

Athanasius
Oct 17th 2008, 09:39 AM
The Matrix Trilogy: In this trilogy the ability/will of man is worshiped. Neo is not the "One" until he wants to be. He is able to be the "One" when he wants; he is actualized. It is his choice; he is the greatest power in his life.

I could go into this much more, but let me know what you think and what some worldviews of other movies are.

Thanks,
Levin

I'm pretty certain that Neo did not choose to be the "One". There is a difference (if not subtly) between being the "One" and denying or being ignorant of this fact, and choosing to become the "One" as an act of conscious will. Besides, we wouldn't want to insult all the Christian pastors who used the - supposedly - Messianic imagery in the Matrix.

Levin
Oct 17th 2008, 09:44 AM
Certainly there is Messianic imagery in the Matrix. I would argue that in these movies Neo in some way also is shown to choose this path as an actualization of himself. I don't see a contradiction between the two.

Athanasius
Oct 17th 2008, 09:48 AM
Certainly there is Messianic imagery in the Matrix. I would argue that in these movies Neo in some way also is shown to choose this path as an actualization of himself. I don't see a contradiction between the two.

Depends if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or not... What I'm saying is that I don't think Neo became the "One", whereas he could have chose not to become the One. I believe Neo became the "One" because he was the "One". But at the same time I believe that's a fate Neo could have accepted or denied. Sure, he was actualized as the "One", but because that's who he was, not because that's who he made himself to be.

BrckBrln
Oct 17th 2008, 03:06 PM
Why can't you watch movies just for entertainment? I've seen Cast Away, albeit a while ago, and I didn't notice any of what you said (probably because I didn't know what existentialism was back then, but still). I watch movies to be entertained not to spend time analyizing it thus ruining the experience. If the movie has a bad messege then just don't let it get to you.

Buzzword
Oct 17th 2008, 04:42 PM
Why can't you watch movies just for entertainment? I've seen Cast Away, albeit a while ago, and I didn't notice any of what you said (probably because I didn't know what existentialism was back then, but still). I watch movies to be entertained not to spend time analyizing it thus ruining the experience. If the movie has a bad messege then just don't let it get to you.

^This^ to all the people who think the Da Vinci Code is demonic.

Or who think Harry Potter turns kids into Wiccans.

Or who think The Exorcist caused real demon possessions.

Or who think Psycho was pornographic.

Levin
Oct 17th 2008, 06:43 PM
Why can't you watch movies just for entertainment? I've seen Cast Away, albeit a while ago, and I didn't notice any of what you said (probably because I didn't know what existentialism was back then, but still). I watch movies to be entertained not to spend time analyizing it thus ruining the experience. If the movie has a bad messege then just don't let it get to you.

The problem, BrckBrln, is that you don't have a choice in whether or not a movie's message is getting to you. By exposing yourself to such a media experience you are internalizing what the movie (it's writers and directors) are saying about humanity, life, God, etc. There is no neutral way to experience any kind of media. If you choose not to be critical and think about such things, then you will leave yourself open to believe or be influenced by the worldview of the media you are experiencing.

I would say that the only way to safetly and intelligently watch most movies is to discuss and interact with what is going on in them. Talk to people; watch them with friends who will also understand what's going on. Doing this has greatly increased my enjoyment from watching movies, and I am then able to be edified by movies when they give insight into the character of humanity, life, or God. Try it sometime, I think you'll like it.

Side note: What is a Biblical stance on entertainment? Can I read garbage fiction novels or waste my time watching ESPN? What is the place for entertainment in our lives?

In Christ,
Levin

BrckBrln
Oct 17th 2008, 07:11 PM
The problem, BrckBrln, is that you don't have a choice in whether or not a movie's message is getting to you. By exposing yourself to such a media experience you are internalizing what the movie (it's writers and directors) are saying about humanity, life, God, etc. There is no neutral way to experience any kind of media. If you choose not to be critical and think about such things, then you will leave yourself open to believe or be influenced by the worldview of the media you are experiencing.

No, no, and no. My favorite movie is American Psycho, a movie about a psycho killer basically, and it does not influence me one bit. I don't have any desire to kill people. And with movies like apparently Cast Away and other 'existential' movies, if you don't even know what existentialism is then how can it affect you? Movies can have an effect on people if you let them, so don't let them.

I can't stand people being critical and (over)analyzing movies, it's one of my pet peeves. Most movies are there for entertainment purposes and should be viewed as such. If there is a bad message then just leave it be.

Revinius
Oct 19th 2008, 04:16 AM
I have always thought that what one does reflects who they are and who they are reflects what they do. The same applies for what your intake is regarding sin, if you expose yourself to areas you are weak in you aren't really being discerning in the holiness of your life. I dont know whether this applies to movies but i assume it does....

Friend of Jesus
Oct 19th 2008, 12:25 PM
Two of my favourite books ('Lireal' and 'Abhorsen' by Garth Nix) are about magic and necromancy. Do I like them because I wish to be a powerful sorcerer who tampers with the souls of the dead- no. However within those stories is a powerful tale of self sacrifice and love. Now I can let myself be inspired by that.

Oh, and Gladiator is a good film.

Godismyteacher
Oct 27th 2008, 05:59 AM
To me, nudity in general is not something to be looked down upon. I am in nursing school and the medical field itself involves a LOT of nudity; its life. In turn, when nude scenes in a movie are specifically made to be sexual - whether it be a woman changing or an actual sex scene - this is something I try and stay away from. As far as violence goes, violence was all throughout the Bible and Jesus' death itself was incredibly violent.

Athanasius
Oct 27th 2008, 11:56 AM
Let's all keep in mind, though. That there is a difference between nudity and violence and glorifying nudity and violence.

Buzzword
Oct 27th 2008, 12:34 PM
Let's all keep in mind, though. That there is a difference between nudity and violence and glorifying nudity and violence.

Random thought.
A lot of church people get offended when movies depict sex in any way.

Even when it's between two married people.
Isn't the latter what they AGREE with, assuming the film isn't porn?

Or are they just adhering to a long-gone mentality that any sexuality which is talked about in public is sin?

Athanasius
Oct 27th 2008, 12:52 PM
Random thought.
A lot of church people get offended when movies depict sex in any way.

Even when it's between two married people.
Isn't the latter what they AGREE with, assuming the film isn't porn?

Or are they just adhering to a long-gone mentality that any sexuality which is talked about in public is sin?

How many movies have you watched which depict sex in a completely Biblical way?

Revinius
Oct 27th 2008, 12:54 PM
given sex is a private act between a man and a woman, i think a movie showing any of it is wrong. The only reason they show it is to rope people in.

Buzzword
Oct 27th 2008, 02:09 PM
How many movies have you watched which depict sex in a completely Biblical way?

How would you define "completely biblical"?


given sex is a private act between a man and a woman, i think a movie showing any of it is wrong. The only reason they show it is to rope people in.

Probably.
Though it could be argued that the only reason movie sex scenes get any attention is due to the church's demonization of the human form over the last few centuries.

Athanasius
Oct 27th 2008, 02:15 PM
How would you define "completely biblical"?

When's the last time you saw a movie that portrayed sex as it's clearly defined in the Bible? Do we need to define what the Bible says about marriage and sex?

Buzzword
Oct 27th 2008, 02:46 PM
When's the last time you saw a movie that portrayed sex as it's clearly defined in the Bible? Do we need to define what the Bible says about marriage and sex?

For the sake of discussion, yes.

Especially since different people pick out different verses to explain THEIR definitino of "biblical sex".

Athanasius
Oct 27th 2008, 02:49 PM
For the sake of discussion, yes.

Especially since different people pick out different verses to explain THEIR definitino of "biblical sex".

Sounds good: you first.

Revinius
Oct 28th 2008, 01:23 AM
Probably.
Though it could be argued that the only reason movie sex scenes get any attention is due to the church's demonization of the human form over the last few centuries.

I wouldnt solely blame the church for the legalisation at the core of many within humanity. In the end it's all about context, and the post-modern context has swung in the other extreme of having no regard for any sort of sanctity within sex.

locboxx
Nov 14th 2008, 03:26 AM
1. Ask God to show you if you should be watching these things. Know that the Holy Spirit lives in us and may be offended by gory scenes in movies.

2. Search the Scriptures for an answer, i suggest Romans as a place to start looking.

3. Ask yourself how watching these movies brings glory to God.

Thats the best i can come up with, sometimes some people are more sensitive to R rated movies than others. I believe Paul said that if some people viewed eating meat as being bad then dont talk down on them and that he would stop eating meat just so that they wouldnt fall. I think thats what he said. Just be careful who you mention it to too, you dont know if one of your believing friends has had a problem with violent imagery in their mind in the past and it is something they have a serious struggle with and movies like that feed to their struggle so they stop watching them then you come along and say that you really like them then they think "well dang, i guess its ok to watch them cuz so and so does" then they start watching it and its a door open to the enemy to shoot those fiery darts of violent images or whatever it may be. Like i said this is the best i can come up with, so just ask Jesus what you should do. Im sure He has the best answer that none of us has even thought of at all :)

Ekeak
Nov 14th 2008, 10:28 PM
If you're a believer, the Spirit indwells you and abides with you continually. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jesus several times in the NT. Don't forget, God is also omnipresent. So there's never a time when Jesus is not seeing what we do. We can't escape his presence, so the above 'litmus test' is a false one.

I think for new believers that it is O.k. it's better than just going on with it and saying "I can't ever glorify God like Jesus did, so there's no point in glorifying him at all."