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jeffweeder
Oct 14th 2008, 09:24 AM
Much to the relief of some , ive hardly said a word in this thread :D

What do you see.
Ive also underlined what i would like some feedback on.

LK 11

One of the lawyers said to Him in reply, "Teacher, when You say this, You insult us too."
46 But He said, "Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.
47 "Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them.
48 "So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs.
49 "For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' 52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."


Matt 23
"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' " (ps 118)




REV 18

Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 "And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."


REV 17
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


I too am wondering about this

vinsight4u8
Oct 14th 2008, 01:40 PM
Compare Isaiah 47 to Rev. 18. They are speaking of the area of Iraq.
ancient Babylon's land

and Jeremiah 50-51 ...esp. 51:49

and Jeremiah 25:15

faroutinmt
Oct 14th 2008, 02:27 PM
It is quite clear to me from these scriptures that both Babylon (the great harlot) spoken of in Revelation and the generation to whom Jesus spoke in the passages of scripture you cited are one and the same. Jesus pronounced the same judgment upon that generation (the one to whom He was speaking), and upon the great harlot (Babylon).

Both of them were held accountable for the exact same thing. Why would Jesus condemn and judge His generation for the blood of all the saints and then judge someone else thousands of years later for the same thing?

Clearly, the great harlot was first century Jerusalem.

vinsight4u8
Oct 14th 2008, 03:11 PM
Have you considered what the prophecy in Isaiah 23:15 is about?
as to Tyre

How about linking it up with Jeremiah 25:11-13?
about the land of endtime Babylon - Iraq

Firstfruits
Oct 14th 2008, 05:37 PM
Much to the relief of some , ive hardly said a word in this thread :D

What do you see.
Ive also underlined what i would like some feedback on.

LK 11

One of the lawyers said to Him in reply, "Teacher, when You say this, You insult us too."
46 But He said, "Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.
47 "Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them.
48 "So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs.
49 "For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' 52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."


Matt 23
"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' " (ps 118)




REV 18

Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 "And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."


REV 17
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


I too am wondering about this

52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."

This is to do with what they were teaching and that their teaching was preventing men from entering Heaven.

Mt 23:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=23&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mt 15:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=15&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mt 15:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=15&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I hope that helps.

Firstfruits

Partaker of Christ
Oct 15th 2008, 12:52 AM
Much to the relief of some , ive hardly said a word in this thread :D

What do you see.
Ive also underlined what i would like some feedback on.

LK 11

One of the lawyers said to Him in reply, "Teacher, when You say this, You insult us too."
46 But He said, "Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.
47 "Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them.
48 "So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs.
49 "For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' 52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."


Matt 23
"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' " (ps 118)




REV 18

Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 "And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."


REV 17
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


I too am wondering about this

Hi Jeffweeder!

This last verse is what makes me wonder.

REV 17
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.

A 'witness' is one who has seen first hand.
These are those who saw Jesus, and also other saints.

Is this woman Jerusalem?

Rev 18:
22 "And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer;

24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."

Is it literal Babylon?
Was Babylon responsible for the blood of the witnesses of Jesus?
Is the light of the lamp shining, and the voice of the bridgroom and bride in Babylon, at the time of Revelation?

Is it Rome?
Was Rome responsible for the blood of the prophets and of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.?

I read these verses and think surely 'this is Jerusalem', but then I read:

Jer 51:33 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.
Jer 51:34 Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon hath devoured me, he hath crushed me, he hath made me an empty vessel, he hath swallowed me up like a dragon, he hath filled his belly with my delicacies, he hath cast me out.
Jer 51:35 The violence done to me and to my flesh be upon Babylon, shall the inhabitant of Zion say; and my blood upon the inhabitants of Chaldea, shall Jerusalem say.
Jer 51:36 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will plead thy cause, and take vengeance for thee; and I will dry up her sea, and make her springs dry.
Jer 51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwelling place for dragons, an astonishment, and a hissing, without an inhabitant.
Jer 51:38 They shall roar together like lions: they shall yell as lions' whelps.
Jer 51:39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.
Jer 51:40 I will bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams with he goats.
Jer 51:41 How is Sheshach taken! and how is the praise of the whole earth surprised! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations!
Jer 51:42 The sea is come up upon Babylon: she is covered with the multitude of the waves thereof.
Jer 51:43 Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby.
Jer 51:44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall.
Jer 51:45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD.
Jer 51:46 And lest your heart faint, and ye fear for the rumor that shall be heard in the land; a rumor shall both come one year, and after that in another year shall come a rumor, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler.
Jer 51:47 Therefore, behold, the days come, that I will do judgment upon the graven images of Babylon: and her whole land shall be confounded, and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her.
Jer 51:48 Then the heaven and the earth, and all that is therein, shall sing for Babylon: for the spoilers shall come unto her from the north, saith the LORD.
Jer 51:49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

jeffweeder
Oct 16th 2008, 04:58 AM
:cry: Hmmm, Jer 51:49........ :B

Partaker of Christ
Oct 16th 2008, 02:17 PM
:cry: Hmmm, Jer 51:49........ :B

:lol:...........

jeffcraig
Mar 15th 2017, 01:04 AM
VOICE
I looked and saw that the woman was drunk because she had gorged herself on the blood of the saints and the blood of those people who refused to deny Jesus even to save their own lives. When I saw her, I was filled with wonder.


Revelation 17:6
KJ21
And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I wondered with great amazement.


I don't remember on this forum/ site if it is allowed to identify the woman. Hundreds of people in the last several centuries did though, as did the Waldensians and Anabaptists many centuries ago.

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39 "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' " (ps 118)

This might actually be true of everyone,

everyone that is, of the few, who get to see HIM.