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Emanate
Oct 14th 2008, 06:28 PM
There is a popular verse:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

All my life I have heard this is a verse applying to Satan. I myself have quoted it in that manner. One day I was reading through John and the context struck me. I believe this verse has been over spiritualized in a way to glosss over the plain meaning. This verse, in context, appears to be referring to false teachers leading people away from God.

John 10

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Could the reason why Christianity is easily led away from biblical doctrine be because we do not know the thieves? If we are constantly looking for the devil, is it not easier for some to "creep in unawares?"

σяєяυииєя
Oct 14th 2008, 06:43 PM
Hi Emanate,


Could the reason why Christianity is easily led away from biblical doctrine be because we do not know the thieves? If we are constantly looking for the devil, is it not easier for some to "creep in unawares?"

Sounds reasonable, and really true, because if the devil would appear unmasked as he realy is then who would be deceived?

Actually another way to avoid to be tricked, is:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3.

Of course this is one of many ways to avoid to fall,:

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Efesians 4:14


And one more, you know we as John the Baptist are to address the people toward God, no toward our selves, toward God`s word,

He must increase, but I must decrease. John 3:30

Be good

______________________
Peace and so forth

-"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation..."[Salvation from what?.]
-Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. (Romans 1:16; John 8:34; Jude 1:24-25.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5459/natureavyty7.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3020/lifesigyyt9.gif

keck553
Oct 14th 2008, 06:43 PM
Reminds me of a story I heard. This couple decided to go to Isra'el on a tour. All the way over on the plane they were educated in the culture of the people of Isra'el. One of the lessons were on sheep herding. The guide explained how the shepard is at the front of the flock, leading, etc.

When the got to Isra'el, one day they went out and saw some sheep. Looking for the shepard, they were amiss when they saw a man behind the flock. So they looked suspiciously at the guide and asked "Um..why is the shepard behind the flock, huh??"

The guide turned, looked, curled up a smile and said: "Oh, that's not the shepard; that's the butcher."

kbm0329
Oct 14th 2008, 06:56 PM
I would generally agree with you. In the verse you quote, the original Greek word that is used for "thief" is "kleptes". Here is the definition from the New Testament Greek Lexicon:

kleptes an embezzler, pilferer

the name is transferred to false teachers, who do not care to instruct men, but abuse their confidence for their own gain

*source (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2812)

theBelovedDisciple
Oct 14th 2008, 07:51 PM
There is a popular verse:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

All my life I have heard this is a verse applying to Satan. I myself have quoted it in that manner. One day I was reading through John and the context struck me. I believe this verse has been over spiritualized in a way to glosss over the plain meaning. This verse, in context, appears to be referring to false teachers leading people away from God.

John 10

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Could the reason why Christianity is easily led away from biblical doctrine be because we do not know the thieves? If we are constantly looking for the devil, is it not easier for some to "creep in unawares?"
--------------------------------------------------

These false teachers and prophets... 'theives' as you put it.... who is leading them and guiding them? what is the source of their agenda and their power thru which they deceive and steal...???

Its certainly not Christ Himself... nor the Holy Ghost.. who leads His children into all Truth...

is there any other power out there that would do such a thing or have the capability to do such a thing????

Satan is a thief and a murderer, he's a liar and a deciever... and I would guaranteee that if you pulled the 'veil' of flesh away from 100 percent of these false teachers who are leading so many astray... you would find 'him' at the root of it all.....

Jesus taught His disciples to be 'wary' or to take heed to the doctrine of the Scribes and Pharisees... their teachings... later on Jesus accused these same teachers as.. doing the deeds of their father..... Jesus revealed the spiritual source to their man made religion and teachings... the devil himself... He called their establishement a brood or den of vipers.. saying it was almost impossible for them to escape the damnation of hell... they outwardly appeared 'righteous' to many but inwardly.. full of dead mens bones and all corruption... This ouburst after they accused Jesus of being a man of sin.. born out of fornication... but He set the record straight and its know different today...

Partaker of Christ
Oct 14th 2008, 08:05 PM
Hi Emante!

Whilst I agree with you, that this is about false teachers and false prophets, we must remember who it is behind the flesh and blood.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [evil one]

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

VerticalReality
Oct 15th 2008, 03:16 AM
Those false teachers are led by the following . . .

Ephesians 2:1-3
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

If you are not led by God's Spirit then you are led by the spirit of this world.

Emanate
Oct 15th 2008, 01:12 PM
So are we to focus on Satan since he is leading these false teachers? Or are we to recognize and expel the thief?

HisServant
Oct 15th 2008, 03:01 PM
There is a popular verse:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

All my life I have heard this is a verse applying to Satan. I myself have quoted it in that manner. One day I was reading through John and the context struck me. I believe this verse has been over spiritualized in a way to glosss over the plain meaning. This verse, in context, appears to be referring to false teachers leading people away from God.

John 10

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Could the reason why Christianity is easily led away from biblical doctrine be because we do not know the thieves? If we are constantly looking for the devil, is it not easier for some to "creep in unawares?"


More important than knowing the thieves is knowing the shepherd:

"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine." John 10:14

If we do not really know Him, how can we in need call on Him?