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Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 04:34 PM
1. Is being gay a sin? my mums generally rather against it, which gets really annoying like if theres a celeb whos gay on tv, unless i really convince her she'll not like them very much.

2. Are mormons christian? Some people seem to say yes others say they arent because they change scripture etc..

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 04:59 PM
1. Is being gay a sin? my mums generally rather against it, which gets really annoying like if theres a celeb whos gay on tv, unless i really convince her she'll not like them very much.

2. Are mormons christian? Some people seem to say yes others say they arent because they change scripture etc..

1. Loaded question; short answer: yes. Long answer: the disposition isn't inherently sinful, acting on that disposition, however, is. I'd compare it with alcoholism. There are some people who are predisposed alcoholics (so that if they drink they will desire alcohol constantly) however, if they refrain from drinking they are fine.

2. They would be considered heretical; no, they aren't Christian.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 15th 2008, 05:45 PM
1. Is being gay a sin? my mums generally rather against it, which gets really annoying like if theres a celeb whos gay on tv, unless i really convince her she'll not like them very much.
.


Here are some verses about it:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:



And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;



Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,



Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,



Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:



Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 1:25>>


Go well

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 05:57 PM
1. Loaded question; short answer: yes. Long answer: the disposition isn't inherently sinful, acting on that disposition, however, is. I'd compare it with alcoholism. There are some people who are predisposed alcoholics (so that if they drink they will desire alcohol constantly) however, if they refrain from drinking they are fine.

2. They would be considered heretical; no, they aren't Christian.

But they believe in christ, so do they go to heaven?

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 06:30 PM
But they believe in christ, so do they go to heaven?

They don't believe in the Christ of the revealed Word, so no.

Buzzword
Oct 15th 2008, 07:17 PM
But they believe in christ, so do they go to heaven?

Essentially, they worship a different Christ than the rest of us.

Plus they pretty much assign divinity to Joseph Smith.

Plus they don't believe in the personality of the Holy Spirit.

Plus they condone/force incest.

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 07:25 PM
They don't believe in the Christ of the revealed Word, so no.

i have no idea what the revealed word means :confused, but i'll try to continue. One of my mormon friends whos in his 30s says he believes they are christians and they believe in the Christ of the Bible and throu him they get eternal life. He also said:"Mormons believe God speaks. Mormons believe the Bible is the word of God. Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ. Each Mormon believes in continuing revelation from God. Mormons believe that God still speaks to prophets today" isnt that nearly us? He also says he's felt God and the Holy Spirit.

So shouldnt he get into heaven? also would jewish people? It just dosent seem fair for mormons not to get into heaven even thou they belive in christ.

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 07:34 PM
i have no idea what the revealed word means :confused, but i'll try to continue. One of my mormon friends whos in his 30s says he believes they are christians and they believe in the Christ of the Bible and throu him they get eternal life. He also said:"Mormons believe God speaks. Mormons believe the Bible is the word of God. Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ. Each Mormon believes in continuing revelation from God. Mormons believe that God still speaks to prophets today" isnt that nearly us? He also says he's felt God and the Holy Spirit.

So shouldnt he get into heaven? also would jewish people? It just dosent seem fair for mormons not to get into heaven even thou they belive in christ.

The revealed Word is otherwise known as the Bible; scripture. So when someone says that another person (or group of people) does not believe in the God of the revealed Word (or the Word revealed), they are saying that person or group does not believe in the God of scripture.

Mormons hold many superfluous doctrines that are not revealed through Scripture. Scripture being referred to as what's known as 'canon', which means 'measuring stick'. Any claim pertaining to God, Jesus Christ, Christians etc. is checked against scripture. If those references don't check out then simply, that group is preaching a different Christ, which Paul warned against.

Major issues with Mormonism that are not scriptural:

1. God [The Father] has a body of flesh and bones
2. Jesus is a created - not an eternal - being
3. Mormonism believes that Jesus is a god, not The God

The book of Mormon, by the way, not being another revelation because it contradicts (or blatantly steals from) scripture. We can talk about that though, if you so wish.

I don't want to judge your friend, so please realize I'm talking about Mormonism as its statement of faith describes itself. Thus as it stands, Mormons are not Christians, they will not be in Heaven with Jesus. They do not believe in Christ.

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 07:59 PM
The revealed Word is otherwise known as the Bible; scripture. So when someone says that another person (or group of people) does not believe in the God of the revealed Word (or the Word revealed), they are saying that person or group does not believe in the God of scripture.

Mormons hold many superfluous doctrines that are not revealed through Scripture. Scripture being referred to as what's known as 'canon', which means 'measuring stick'. Any claim pertaining to God, Jesus Christ, Christians etc. is checked against scripture. If those references don't check out then simply, that group is preaching a different Christ, which Paul warned against.

Major issues with Mormonism that are not scriptural:

1. God [The Father] has a body of flesh and bones
2. Jesus is a created - not an eternal - being
3. Mormonism believes that Jesus is a god, not The God

The book of Mormon, by the way, not being another revelation because it contradicts (or blatantly steals from) scripture. We can talk about that though, if you so wish.

I don't want to judge your friend, so please realize I'm talking about Mormonism as its statement of faith describes itself. Thus as it stands, Mormons are not Christians, they will not be in Heaven with Jesus. They do not believe in Christ.


But dont mormons read the bible as well as the book of mormon? Its just i think its mean for a mormon to go to hell even thou they believe christ as savior.
Is it true that theres a middle place between heaven and hell? and that in revelations people are judged on what they did and if they were good they got to go into heaven, at least thats one someone said to me.

Sorry if im bein annoying its just i have alot of mormon friends and i dont want them to go to hell :cry:

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 08:25 PM
But dont mormons read the bible as well as the book of mormon? Its just i think its mean for a mormon to go to hell even thou they believe christ as savior.
Is it true that theres a middle place between heaven and hell? and that in revelations people are judged on what they did and if they were good they got to go into heaven, at least thats one someone said to me.

Sorry if im bein annoying its just i have alot of mormon friends and i dont want them to go to hell :cry:

Sure, Mormons read the Bible... But so do Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennet, Sam Harris and a lot of very famous atheists who are very anti-Christian: doesn't mean they believe or follow what it teaches. If Mormons believed and understood the Bible they would not be reading the book of Mormon, which is a different Christ.

They don't believe in Jesus Christ as savior. At least they don't believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, and that's what matters. If they say they believe in 'Jesus Christ' but their Jesus turns out to be one who's different than what's in the Bible, then that does no one any good - their faith is in vain.

There's no such thing as a middle place between Heaven and Hell (known as purgetory). In Revelation you have two judgments, I'll simplify it and simply say God judges non-Christians and Christians differently. Non-Christians are judged by their works (but are going to Hell no matter how good they are, because our good works are meaningless). Christians are judged according to how they fulfilled the great commission. No one is going to Heaven after that judgment because they did something "good". In the eyes of God nothing we do is "good".

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 08:29 PM
So what do you think will happen to them?:cry:

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 08:37 PM
So what do you think will happen to them?:cry:

If they don't come to Christ? They won't be spending eternity with God, if you catch the implication.

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 08:45 PM
i mean will they go to hell. Its just i always thought they would go to heaven so its really depressing to here that they wont :cry::cry:

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 08:53 PM
i mean will they go to hell. Its just i always thought they would go to heaven so its really depressing to here that they wont :cry::cry:

That's the implication, yes. It doesn't have to be that way, though. You're very much capable of introducing them to who Jesus really is as he's revealed by scripture, not Joseph Smith.

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 09:02 PM
That's the implication, yes. It doesn't have to be that way, though. You're very much capable of introducing them to who Jesus really is as he's revealed by scripture, not Joseph Smith.

the problem is he believes that is the Christ of the bible and im only 13, why would a 31yr old listen to me? im not a very confident person anyway. Just wonderin but if he is wrong why as he said the holy spirit spoke to him and said that the book of mormon is true:hmm:.
What if i just prayed for them would that work? u know just ask God to do whats best. Thats all i feel im capable of.

Athanasius
Oct 15th 2008, 09:23 PM
the problem is he believes that is the Christ of the bible and im only 13, why would a 31yr old listen to me? im not a very confident person anyway. Just wonderin but if he is wrong why as he said the holy spirit spoke to him and said that the book of mormon is true:hmm:.
What if i just prayed for them would that work? u know just ask God to do whats best. Thats all i feel im capable of.

The Holy Spirit didn't speak to him, simple as that. Pray always works, it's the best thing to do, probably. Don't worry about your age, either - have you ever read the books of 1 and 2 Timothy?

Lucariokid13
Oct 15th 2008, 09:26 PM
Ok thanks for all your help, just wonderin but how do i make your repution go up? youve been a big help:D

never mind just found it.

Chimon
Oct 17th 2008, 01:37 AM
1. Is being gay a sin? my mums generally rather against it, which gets really annoying like if theres a celeb whos gay on tv, unless i really convince her she'll not like them very much.

2. Are mormons christian? Some people seem to say yes others say they arent because they change scripture etc..

1. That depends on your definition of being gay. Having homosexual urges/temptations is not a sin, but participating in homosexual activity or fantasies is. I think some other have already given Scripture in this regard.

2. The Mormons are heretic polytheists. The believe the Jesus and God the Father, or Elohim, are only a few of many gods, and that if we are good enough, we will become gods like them. They believe that Satan is Jesus' brother and is also a god like Jesus and elohim. They believe that the "Negro race" are those cursed by Elohim because they remained neutral in the war between Satan and Elohim. Their beliefs are not in line with a proper interpretation of the Bible.

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 03:33 PM
2. The Mormons are heretic polytheists. The believe the Jesus and God the Father, or Elohim, are only a few of many gods, and that if we are good enough, we will become gods like them. They believe that Satan is Jesus' brother and is also a god like Jesus and elohim. They believe that the "Negro race" are those cursed by Elohim because they remained neutral in the war between Satan and Elohim. Their beliefs are not in line with a proper interpretation of the Bible.

Just a few things on what u said. They say they can become god-like and they say they still worship the one true God. They also say they cant become as good as Jesus, and he is THE redeemer and the only way to be saved.
The whole Jesus-satan bro thing is God created everything, right? And we are in his image and in some logic we are his offspring, thus the bro thing BUT they dont count it as a docterine just a speculation, meaing they dont preach it.
They dont really believe in black inferiotity any more. Even christians thought blacks were evil.

thnx for the info on gays, means alot

Athanasius
Oct 17th 2008, 03:47 PM
Just a few things on what u said. They say they can become god-like and they say they still worship the one true God. They also say they cant become as good as Jesus, and he is THE redeemer and the only way to be saved.
The whole Jesus-satan bro thing is God created everything, right? And we are in his image and in some logic we are his offspring, thus the bro thing BUT they dont count it as a docterine just a speculation, meaing they dont preach it.
They dont really believe in black inferiotity any more. Even christians thought blacks were evil.

thnx for the info on gays, means alot

It's irrelevant if they're still going to worship the "one true God" - this idea of becoming godlike is entirely unscriptural; you won't find it anywhere in the Bible. The fact of the matter is that we won't become anything like God. In fact, I remember a story I was told when I was younger about a snake who tempted two people with the thought of becoming like God...

If you read the Old Testament you'll discover that the only one who can redeem is God. Jesus claims He is our redeemer (and does in fact redeem us) so therefore, Jesus is God. I can post scripture if you want the verses. We'll never be "as good as Jesus" because we'll never be God. Rest assured, however, that we're justified through Christ in relation to the Father.

Jesus being the brother of Satan is nonsense. It's their doctrine, not idle 'speculation'. God didn't create Jesus (Jesus is God; God is Jesus) - He is an eternal being. We may be made in the image of God, however, Jesus isn't as Jesus is God.

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 05:16 PM
It's irrelevant if they're still going to worship the "one true God" - this idea of becoming godlike is entirely unscriptural; you won't find it anywhere in the Bible. The fact of the matter is that we won't become anything like God. In fact, I remember a story I was told when I was younger about a snake who tempted two people with the thought of becoming like God...

If you read the Old Testament you'll discover that the only one who can redeem is God. Jesus claims He is our redeemer (and does in fact redeem us) so therefore, Jesus is God. I can post scripture if you want the verses. We'll never be "as good as Jesus" because we'll never be God. Rest assured, however, that we're justified through Christ in relation to the Father.

Jesus being the brother of Satan is nonsense. It's their doctrine, not idle 'speculation'. God didn't create Jesus (Jesus is God; God is Jesus) - He is an eternal being. We may be made in the image of God, however, Jesus isn't as Jesus is God.

This is probably my fault a bit as i had to rush.

What he meant was we were made in Gods image and so we become like him but cant be as good as him. I agree its a bit egotistic and dumb but i dont see why he cant get into heaven just beacause he believes that. I thought as lon as you believe that Christ saved, loves you and is your lord u got into heaven. I mean Catholic has a few different ideas aswell but they get into heaven.( btw he does believe in the jesus of the bible)

σяєяυииєя
Oct 17th 2008, 05:22 PM
..It's irrelevant if they're still going to worship the "one true God" - this idea of becoming godlike is entirely unscriptural; you won't find it anywhere in the Bible. The fact of the matter is that we won't become anything like God...


Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt. 5 :48.

We can`t become as God is, when talking about power, but when talking about Character it`s yet a wonderful promise.



...God didn't create Jesus (Jesus is God; God is Jesus) - He is an eternal being. We may be made in the image of God, however, Jesus isn't as Jesus is God.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3.

Fareyewell

Athanasius
Oct 17th 2008, 05:25 PM
This is probably my fault a bit as i had to rush.

What he meant was we were made in Gods image and so we become like him but cant be as good as him. I agree its a bit egotistic and dumb but i dont see why he cant get into heaven just beacause he believes that. I thought as lon as you believe that Christ saved, loves you and is your lord u got into heaven. I mean Catholic has a few different ideas aswell but they get into heaven.( btw he does believe in the jesus of the bible)

I can only say it so many times: They don't believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Catholics, or the popular conception of them, are quite the issue as well.

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 05:33 PM
I can only say it so many times: They don't believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Catholics, or the popular conception of them, are quite the issue as well.

So catholics and mormons dont get into heaven?

Athanasius
Oct 17th 2008, 05:36 PM
So catholics and mormons dont get into heaven?

Speaking of Mormons in general? No.
Catholicism is a different story... The answer to that is: "yes" and "no". Depends on what the individual believes. Whereas in Mormonism there's not enough doctrinal differentiation for that to be possible.

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 05:55 PM
Speaking of Mormons in general? No.
Catholicism is a different story... The answer to that is: "yes" and "no". Depends on what the individual believes. Whereas in Mormonism there's not enough doctrinal differentiation for that to be possible.

Ok, Just wonderin but 1. what does doctrinal differentiation mean? 2. How can there be perfect happiness in heaven if are dearest friends are in hell? 3. What have you meant by its not the biblical jesus? thnx.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 17th 2008, 06:20 PM
2. How can there be perfect happiness in heaven if are dearest friends are in hell?

Hi Lucariokid,

By this time, God`s righteousness would have been revealed and not a shadow of doubt will be in the redeemed.

But here comes the understanding of the hell as never ending fire or as the results of the destruction being everlasting.

Be good

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 06:38 PM
Hi Lucariokid,

By this time, God`s righteousness would have been revealed and not a shadow of doubt will be in the redeemed.

But here comes the understanding of the hell as never ending fire or as the results of the destruction being everlasting.

Be good

Sorry i have no idea what your saying.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 17th 2008, 06:53 PM
Sorry i have no idea what your saying.

Just typing about your second question...

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 07:03 PM
Just typing about your second question...

i know its just i dont understand what it means. thnx thou


Satan believes in Christ too. If I recall correctly, Mormons teach that Jesus is Satan's brother or something weird like that.

Yeah its something like god and his wives had kids and Jesus was the first. Dosnt make much sense to me.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 17th 2008, 07:53 PM
i know its just i dont understand what it means. thnx thou

Sorry, I am learning English and it is n`t clear yet, my apologies Lucariokid, going to try to make it clear.


How can there be perfect happiness in heaven if are dearest friends are in hell?
As the people in heaven are or rather have God`s character, then what God says of Himself in matters of Character, it is theirs as well.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Likewise as God says:
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. Ezequiel 18:32..

Because they tried together with God to persuade their friends [who got lost], while there was time yet, to show them the way of life, and their friends, rejected the message and maybe even:

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. Matt 10:21.

Delivered them up to death. Then the ones in heaven, know that God and they tried to save them by all possible means.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

Lucariokid13
Oct 17th 2008, 08:02 PM
Sorry, I am learning English and it is n`t clear yet, my apologies Lucariokid, going to try to make it clear.


As the people in heaven are or rather have God`s character, then what God says of Himself in matters of Character, it is theirs as well.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Likewise as God says:
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. Ezequiel 18:32..

Because they tried together with God to persuade their friends [who got lost], while there was time yet, to show them the way of life, and their friends, rejected the message and maybe even:

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. Matt 10:21.

Delivered them up to death. Then the ones in heaven, know that God and they tried to save them by all possible means.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20


Great thanks i understand completely :D. Makes me fell alot better. BTW your english is very good. Ill try and help my friends see the glory of God :amen: