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immortality
Oct 18th 2008, 03:07 AM
the gospel doesn't make sense

i would be lying if i said i fully comprehend the gospel.

it seems the more i understand it, the more i realize i don't.

it is impossible, being the wretched pieces of dust that we are, to truly comprehend the grace that has been lavished upon us. being our carnal selves, it is impossible to fully understand and appreciate what has been done for us, if indeed we have been snatched from the fire.

"If it is hard for the righteous person to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and sinful person?" [1 pet 4:18]

"How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You To dwell in Your courts." [psalm 65:4]

"You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." [john 15:16]

winning the lottery? being a homeless person and chosen by the president to be his assistant? are there any earthly analogies that can effectively compare the situation? i don't think so.

i am convinced it will take an eternity to fully comprehend the immensity of the gospel.

My heart's Desire
Oct 18th 2008, 03:18 AM
I will have to wholeheartedly agree with you! I don't think I'll know the glorious depth of it until I see God face to face. Then all will be clear.

jponb
Oct 18th 2008, 03:22 AM
Paul stated 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 18th 2008, 04:08 AM
...being the wretched pieces of dust that we are...Aside from the obvious fact that we have all sinned, why do you take such a low view of humanity?

I would suggest that God thought it worth His trouble to have His son sacrifice His very life for us rather than spend eternity in Heaven without us.

crossnote
Oct 18th 2008, 07:16 AM
This reminds me of this verse.

May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
(Eph 3:18-19)

'Know the love of Christ which passes knowledge'

Maybe the answer lies in the next verse...

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
(Eph 3:20)

petepet
Oct 18th 2008, 09:33 AM
I will have to wholeheartedly agree with you! I don't think I'll know the glorious depth of it until I see God face to face. Then all will be clear.

While sympathising wholeheartedly with your sentiment may I add that then we will only just have begun to learn. Even in Heaven we will be continually learning and growing in the knowledge of our fathomless God as we worship before Him in His presence.

σяєяυииєя
Oct 20th 2008, 06:50 AM
Hi Immortality,

Good question

Paul saw that the character of Christ must be understood before men could love Him or view the cross with the eye of faith. Here must begin that study which shall be the science and the song of the redeemed through all eternity. In the light of the cross alone can the true value of the human soul be estimated. {AA 273.1}

The theme of redemption is one that the angels desire to look into; it will be the science and the song of the redeemed throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. Is it not worthy of careful thought and study now? The infinite love and mercy of Jesus, the sacrifice made in our behalf, calls for the most serious and solemn reflection. We should dwell upon the character of our dear Redeemer and Intercessor. We should meditate upon the mission of him who came to save his people from their sins. As we thus contemplate heavenly themes, our faith and love will grow stronger, and our prayers will be more and more acceptable to God, because they will be more and more mixed with faith and love [The love which crossnotetalks about in post#5]. They will be intelligent and fervent. There will be more constant confidence in Jesus, and a daily, living experience in his power to save to the utmost all that come unto God by him. {CE 57.2}



Be good

Firstfruits
Oct 20th 2008, 11:30 AM
the gospel doesn't make sense

i would be lying if i said i fully comprehend the gospel.

it seems the more i understand it, the more i realize i don't.

it is impossible, being the wretched pieces of dust that we are, to truly comprehend the grace that has been lavished upon us. being our carnal selves, it is impossible to fully understand and appreciate what has been done for us, if indeed we have been snatched from the fire.

"If it is hard for the righteous person to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and sinful person?" [1 pet 4:18]

"How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You To dwell in Your courts." [psalm 65:4]

"You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." [john 15:16]

winning the lottery? being a homeless person and chosen by the president to be his assistant? are there any earthly analogies that can effectively compare the situation? i don't think so.

i am convinced it will take an eternity to fully comprehend the immensity of the gospel.

What is the Gospel of Christ that we are to preach?

Acts 26:22 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=22) Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Acts 3:18 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Acts 19:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=19&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 26:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) That Christ should suffer, and That he should be the first That should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

This should help you to understand what you are not sure of.

"You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." [john 15:16]

Jn 6:70 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=70) Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Jn 13:18 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=18) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Jn 15:16 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=15&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=16) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jesus was talking about the twelve he had chosen.

"If it is hard for the righteous person to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and sinful person?" [1 pet 4:18]

1 Pet 4:17 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=60&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Pet 4:18 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=60&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=18) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1 Pet 4:19 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=60&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=19) Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

All who profess to be Christians have a responsiblity to do the will of God according to the Gospel to keep their souls from being lost.

I hope this has been helpful.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Oct 20th 2008, 03:44 PM
While I agree with unfathomed riches of the gospel, I do not agree that it will take an eternity to understand it all. It will simply take God! In and of ourselve even eternity would be insufficient to the task. That is why we are not left to accomplish the impossible by ourselves.

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

The gospel is not hidden, its secrets have been revealed to us.

2 Cor 4:3 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=47&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=3) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mt 13:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Lk 8:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

1 Cor 4:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=46&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

If we are stewards of the gospel, can we teach what we do not understand?

Eph 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

So as you can see, it will not take an eternity.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

dan
Oct 27th 2008, 11:31 AM
Paul stated 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I agree. That's why Jesus said to "wait and watch". The incorrect impulses about the identity of the beast will be corrected by watching who does what.

MK 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
MK 13:34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Teke
Oct 27th 2008, 04:04 PM
This reminds me of this verse.

May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
(Eph 3:18-19)

'Know the love of Christ which passes knowledge'

Maybe the answer lies in the next verse...

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
(Eph 3:20)





"May be able to comprehend with all saints"
Truthfully we know as a whole. Not as an individual, as individually we cannot comprehend, but as a whole we can.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

We "comprehend" in the fellowship of the Body of Christ. And we give these gifts to one another in caring for one another.
There is no "one" without "another" in scripture. :)

threebigrocks
Oct 27th 2008, 04:10 PM
We, as individuals cannot make sense of the gospel? Let me know if I'm wrong in understanding what you are saying, but that's what it sounds like.

If faith comes by hearing the gospel, and we are saved as individuals, then how does that make sense? Trying not to sound lost here. :)

RJ Mac
Oct 27th 2008, 04:17 PM
The gospels were written for us to believe in Christ,
to understand the will of God for us, to have the mind of Christ.

Yes they are difficult but not impossible and the more you mature
in Christ the richer the gospels become and the deeper your able to
see into the depths of the love of God. no I'll never see the bottom
but I will understand what He is leading to.

RJ

Teke
Oct 27th 2008, 05:01 PM
We, as individuals cannot make sense of the gospel? Let me know if I'm wrong in understanding what you are saying, but that's what it sounds like.

If faith comes by hearing the gospel, and we are saved as individuals, then how does that make sense? Trying not to sound lost here. :)

What I meant is that individually we do not comprehend the gospel. It takes the whole Body to do so. One single person cannot comprehend the "depth and height" etc. (the Ephesians verse we were referencing "with the saints")

On "faith comes by hearing" see my last posts in the baptism thread, as I just posted on that to Roger.

one_lost_coin
Oct 27th 2008, 06:25 PM
Hebrews 11:39: And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised,40: since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
Hebrews Chapter 12:1: Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,2: looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

RJ Mac
Oct 27th 2008, 06:31 PM
Teke - I couldn't agree with you more that it takes the body to come
to a deeper understanding of the gospel and not one man alone.

RJ

brakelite
Oct 28th 2008, 08:40 AM
Thank God we can understand sufficient of the gospel in order to be saved. We can understand our need of a Savior. We can understand God's provision. We can understand and know God through an ongoing relationship. We can experience His work in our lives in sanctification that we may be made into the image of Christ. We can, to a more or less degree, understand and appreciate all these things. We can even understand that the reason God has done so much for us is that He loves us.
What I have so much difficulty with is why does He love us so much!!! That is what will be the study throughout all eternity. I don't think we will ever plumb the true depths of His love. That Jesus was willing to sacrifice His own eternal life that we may gain eternal life staggers me. He thought it a better option that we enjoy glory without Him than He enjoy glory without us! Amazing love!!!!