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Sherry W
Oct 20th 2008, 03:13 PM
If God wants everyone to become a Christian, why does He allow credibility gaps between unbelievers and us? I realize that being a Christian doesn't take away our free will, but wouldn't being perfect remove the credibility gap between us? Whenever a Christian makes a mistake, unbelievers cry out HYPOCRITE at them. If God made us perfect, that would take away their ammunition against us. I cannot think for a minute that He will chuck people into Hell just because they had no confidence (often justified) in our religion. High profile cases like Ted Haggard, Fred Phelps, and Jimmy Swaggart are well known examples. But credibility gaps exist between us and our unsaved family members as well.

Firefighter
Oct 20th 2008, 04:02 PM
You answered your own question... Free Will.

Sherry W
Oct 20th 2008, 04:05 PM
I understand that, but what if the unbeliever has had a genuinely negative experience with a Christian? How can God hold that against the unbeliever?

Athanasius
Oct 20th 2008, 04:16 PM
I understand that, but what if the unbeliever has had a genuinely negative experience with a Christian? How can God hold that against the unbeliever?

Why would a negative experience with a Christian negate the truth of the Christian message?

Sherry W
Oct 20th 2008, 04:27 PM
It doesn't. But they feel that a Christian should live up to the message. If not, they assume the message is invalid..

Richard H
Oct 20th 2008, 04:38 PM
I've said this elsewhere in these forums, but it applies to this topic.

The Holy Spirit put a thought in my head, which brought me to Christ.
"You can't see a perfect God, by looking at imperfect people."

Until then, I judged God by the actions and speech of His people.

Richard

tt1106
Oct 20th 2008, 04:42 PM
We walk by faith not by sight. The same is true for non-believers. If they saw perfection and converted, then they also would be perfected. It is not God's plan to make us perfect, so others will also become perfect.
Otherwise that Negates the work on the cross.
GOD's power is made perfect through our weakness. Unbelievers see in us the ability to be imperfect but still have hope, trust and peace.
To stumble and through Grace still prevail.
Granted some will never turn and that is why there are and will continue to be many people in Hell.

Firefighter
Oct 20th 2008, 05:06 PM
Other's actions are just an excuse to deny the gospel.

Richard H
Oct 20th 2008, 07:06 PM
Other's actions are just an excuse to deny the gospel.
It can be, but actions can also become a real stumbling block to salvation.

To dismiss those stumbling blocks as being the responsibility of the blind is just plain - not right. (perhaps that is not what you meant)

We're to be examples of the difference of how a relationship with God can change a person for the better.
We may not be perfect, but better than we were.
...Certainly different than the sinner.

Richard

Firefighter
Oct 20th 2008, 07:23 PM
If every Christian I know sold out and started worshiping the devil, I would still have no excuse. When I stand before Him, I will stand alone.

Richard H
Oct 20th 2008, 07:29 PM
If every Christian I know sold out and started worshiping the devil, I would still have no excuse. When I stand before Him, I will stand alone.
I agree. :yes:
However, sometimes the only "Jesus" the lost can "see" is us.

Without being prompted to look past the actions of some Christians, they feel that their "excuse" is legitimate.
To a certain extent (as far as the blind can see), it is.

Some DO use it as an excuse, but to some - it is a legitimate stumbling block not of their making.

Dani H
Oct 21st 2008, 02:07 AM
When people stand before a holy God to give account for their sin, they're not going to be able to use others as an excuse, because God has given everyone the ability to make up their own minds and seek Him for themselves.

Our concern as Christians are our brothers and sisters that are less mature in the Lord. For their sake, we ought to refine our own behavior and make sure we walk worthy of the Lord, so they can look to us as examples (as parents would with their own children).

Mark 9:42 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=9&verse=42&version=50&context=verse)
“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

Romans 14:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=14&verse=21&version=50&context=verse)
It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

1 Corinthians 8:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=8&verse=11&version=50&context=verse)
And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

jamison
Oct 21st 2008, 02:17 AM
We as Christians like to sit around and say that "they had their chance, it is nobody's fault but theirs." That is very easy to say when you grew up in Christian America. It is alot harder when you have been taught since your childhood that Allah is god. Do you really think if you were born to Muslim parents and had 1 missionary come to you, that you would have believed something that went against your faith? I know that for some of you it will be "yes", but you really need to think long and hard on that. Most Christians won't consider ANYTHING that goes against what they already believe, even if it is still within Christianity. Why would a Muslim be any different?

livingwaters
Oct 21st 2008, 03:13 AM
If God wants everyone to become a Christian, why does He allow credibility gaps between unbelievers and us? I realize that being a Christian doesn't take away our free will, but wouldn't being perfect remove the credibility gap between us? Whenever a Christian makes a mistake, unbelievers cry out HYPOCRITE at them. If God made us perfect, that would take away their ammunition against us. I cannot think for a minute that He will chuck people into Hell just because they had no confidence (often justified) in our religion. High profile cases like Ted Haggard, Fred Phelps, and Jimmy Swaggart are well known examples. But credibility gaps exist between us and our unsaved family members as well.


:thumbsup:It's not "if" God wants everyone to become a Christian--HIS Word says, HE sent HIS only begotten SON so that NONE should perish. That pretty much takes the "if" out of the equation, don't you think???:amen:

Let us not be a "men pleasers!!" Let the loss say what they may, it's just "talk." They use sooooo many excuses not to surrender, just like I did before HE SAVED ME.....If we live the way God wants us to, nobody should be worried about being called a "hypocrite."

Maybe we shouldn't be looking for a way out of doing what HIS Word so plainly tells us is our "commission!!!!"

Confidence in religion!!?? Hope that's not where our confidence is!!!! Cause if so, we're in biggggggggg trouble. Religion can send you straight to HELL!!!! My confidence is in Christianity which means it is in my LORD AND SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST!!!! HE says not to rely on your own understanding...Rely on HIM; you can't go wrong!!!!!

And those names you mentioned, they will still go to Heaven if they have repented and asked our LORD AND SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST, for forgiveness!! Remember, to God there is no "high profile" sin. A sin is a sin is a sin...except blasphemy against the HOLY GHOST, no forgiveness!!!!!!

God made us in HIS image, but not for us to be "God." The Children of God have the ammunition, not the unbelievers. WE have God...if HE is for us, who can be against us???!!!!~~~ Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia...

Maybe that'll help clear things up for ya.

God Bless:hug:

Richard H
Oct 21st 2008, 10:30 AM
If God wants everyone to become a Christian, why does He allow credibility gaps between unbelievers and us? I realize that being a Christian doesn't take away our free will, but wouldn't being perfect remove the credibility gap between us? Whenever a Christian makes a mistake, unbelievers cry out HYPOCRITE at them. If God made us perfect, that would take away their ammunition against us. I cannot think for a minute that He will chuck people into Hell just because they had no confidence (often justified) in our religion. High profile cases like... [names withheld] are well known examples. But credibility gaps exist between us and our unsaved family members as well.
'An interesting OP, Sherry.
In my opinion, God allows a "credibility gap", because:
· We just are not perfect. We can only attain righteousness through faith in Jesus. That way we rely on Him and not ourselves.
· so that our faith would be strong enough to endure "high profile" cases, because our trust is in the living God and not in imperfect people.

Those without ears to hear, think they have understanding, but their wisdom is not God's wisdom.
Hypocrisy in the church can be a real stumbling block to the sinner, but ultimately they are without excuse.

We should endeavor to live godly lives and use clean speech with wisdom, not so much to please the world, but to please God.
Also, (as Dani pointed out) to be examples for those still maturing.

Closing this "credibility gap" in our own lives, distinguishes us from sinners, so they can see the difference.
And yes, it is quite important in one’s witness to unsaved family members, as they know us very well.

To those who seek our lack of perfection as an excuse, I'd explain that we cannot see a perfect God, by looking at imperfect people.
We must all give account, and they're short-changing themselves, by thinking it's an acceptable excuse.

Richard

BTW: God is a holy God.
The ONLY way to stand in His presence is when He sees us through the blood of Jesus the Messiah - the Mediator.
Without His righteousness, paid at a very high price, we cannot be in the presence of YHWH.
Religion cannot save us - only Yeshua/Jesus the Christ.

Butch5
Oct 21st 2008, 05:53 PM
If God wants everyone to become a Christian, why does He allow credibility gaps between unbelievers and us? I realize that being a Christian doesn't take away our free will, but wouldn't being perfect remove the credibility gap between us? Whenever a Christian makes a mistake, unbelievers cry out HYPOCRITE at them. If God made us perfect, that would take away their ammunition against us. I cannot think for a minute that He will chuck people into Hell just because they had no confidence (often justified) in our religion. High profile cases like Ted Haggard, Fred Phelps, and Jimmy Swaggart are well known examples. But credibility gaps exist between us and our unsaved family members as well.

Isn't a mistake something unintended? I don't think the cases you mentioned were mistakes. I think they were probably intentional. That being said, what mistakes do we make as Christians? If a Christian has an affair is that a mistake? I don't think so. If a Christian acts belligerent towards someone is that a mistake? I don't think so. If we are really honest as Christians I think most of what we call mistakes aren't really mistakes, they are sin and we are being hypocrites. I think we as Christians accept the fact that we are going to sin, and since we are going to sin we excuse a lot of what should never be excused. Jesus told several different people "go and sin no more," was Jesus telling them to do something He knew they were incapable of? I don't think so, while we will never be perfect because we can sin in thought, there is no reason we cannot be free from sin in a physical aspect. Every action we perform starts in our mind, therefore we choose whether or not to act on it. If some one wrongs me and I want revenge, that thought starts in my mind. If I end it there in my mind, I have not sinned in the physical world, which is what the unbelievers see. I think as Christians we really need to start looking at our actions and stop excusing what we should not be excusing.

Foghorn
Oct 26th 2008, 01:35 PM
If God wants everyone to become a Christian, why does He allow credibility gaps between unbelievers and us? I realize that being a Christian doesn't take away our free will, but wouldn't being perfect remove the credibility gap between us? Whenever a Christian makes a mistake, unbelievers cry out HYPOCRITE at them. If God made us perfect, that would take away their ammunition against us. I cannot think for a minute that He will chuck people into Hell just because they had no confidence (often justified) in our religion. High profile cases like Ted Haggard, Fred Phelps, and Jimmy Swaggart are well known examples. But credibility gaps exist between us and our unsaved family members as well.Where does scripture teach God wants "everyone" to become a christian?

Richard H
Oct 26th 2008, 01:49 PM
Where does scripture teach God wants "everyone" to become a christian?
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Titus 2:11

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:3,4

Foghorn
Oct 26th 2008, 06:28 PM
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Titus 2:11Awesome verse, but, in the context vs: 2-10 and with other scriptures 1 Tim 2:1-6, It is obvious Paul is talking about all types of people, regardless of gender, age, or social class. Without distinctions of Nations as was it formerly with certain conditions.


This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:3,4This can not mean everyone, all men literally. Couple reasons. 1) What about women, I mean if this is a literal statement, "who desires all men to be saved" then what about women? If the words all men is not to be taken literally, then maby the verse has a certain other meaning?
Obviously it does. 2) If God is soverign, and I believe all Christians agree He is, then "all men will, without a doubt, be saved!" This would be universalism, and we know scripture destroys universalism.

Lets look at the context:
1 Tim 2:1-3 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

So.....we are urged to do what on behalf of all men? All types of people, regardless of gender, social rank and age ect...
That is good and exceptable in the sight of God our savior.


1 Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God has not excluded any nation or condition, see Matt 28:19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Scripture teaches whoever has been appointed to eternal life will believe.
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Scripture teaches there are those who just wont come, or stay. Why? ....because they are not of the elect. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

It is obvious that "all men" refers to, all manner of men, of all nations and qualities, Paul refers this to what he had said before : Namely, 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,



I am not saying there is no scripture to prove your point, but these just do not do it.

thepenitent
Oct 26th 2008, 06:59 PM
I understand that, but what if the unbeliever has had a genuinely negative experience with a Christian? How can God hold that against the unbeliever?

God doesn't condemn people because they don't accept Christ - he condemns them because they are sinners. Christ is the undeserved grace God sent to save those who don't deserve it. If any choose not to accept him....they are in the same place they started. Jesus said, "God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already..." John 3:17-18

Foghorn
Oct 26th 2008, 07:08 PM
I understand that, but what if the unbeliever has had a genuinely negative experience with a Christian? How can God hold that against the unbeliever?

Sherry, here is a verse to consider.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Has the unbeliever rejected Christ after hearing the gospel? If so, then this unbeliever will face the wrath of God.

How can God hold this against the unbeliever?
Acts 4:10-12 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health. "He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Butch5
Oct 26th 2008, 09:35 PM
Awesome verse, but, in the context vs: 2-10 and with other scriptures 1 Tim 2:1-6, It is obvious Paul is talking about all types of people, regardless of gender, age, or social class. Without distinctions of Nations as was it formerly with certain conditions.

This can not mean everyone, all men literally. Couple reasons. 1) What about women, I mean if this is a literal statement, "who desires all men to be saved" then what about women? If the words all men is not to be taken literally, then maby the verse has a certain other meaning?
Obviously it does. 2) If God is soverign, and I believe all Christians agree He is, then "all men will, without a doubt, be saved!" This would be universalism, and we know scripture destroys universalism.

Lets look at the context:
1 Tim 2:1-3 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

So.....we are urged to do what on behalf of all men? All types of people, regardless of gender, social rank and age ect...
That is good and exceptable in the sight of God our savior.


1 Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God has not excluded any nation or condition, see Matt 28:19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Scripture teaches whoever has been appointed to eternal life will believe.
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Scripture teaches there are those who just wont come, or stay. Why? ....because they are not of the elect. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

It is obvious that "all men" refers to, all manner of men, of all nations and qualities, Paul refers this to what he had said before : Namely, 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,



I am not saying there is no scripture to prove your point, but these just do not do it.

These Scriptures do prove it.


Foghorn---Awesome verse, but, in the context vs: 2-10 and with other scriptures 1 Tim 2:1-6, It is obvious Paul is talking about all types of people, regardless of gender, age, or social class. Without distinctions of Nations as was it formerly with certain conditions.


This verse says the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, it has as Scripture shows us.


Foghorn---This can not mean everyone, all men literally. Couple reasons. 1) What about women, I mean if this is a literal statement, "who desires all men to be saved" then what about women? If the words all men is not to be taken literally, then maby the verse has a certain other meaning?
Obviously it does. 2) If God is soverign, and I believe all Christians agree He is, then "all men will, without a doubt, be saved!" This would be universalism, and we know scripture destroys universalism.


Oh, it can and does mean all men.

1. The Greek word translated men, actually means Human being, so that solves the problem with woman and children.

2. You start with a false premise, you assume what God desires must come to pass. However Scripture teaches otherwise. So, if God desires all to be saved it does not necessitate that all will be saved. So there is no Universalism.


Foghorn---Lets look at the context:
1 Tim 2:1-3 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

So.....we are urged to do what on behalf of all men? All types of people, regardless of gender, social rank and age ect...
That is good and exceptable in the sight of God our savior.


First of all what is the reason for not accepting the literal reading?
Second, where does it say all "types" of men. Taking your reasoning the verse would refer to only kings and all who are in authority. The verse also says nothing of gender, social rank, age, etc.



Foghorn---1 Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God has not excluded any nation or condition, see Matt 28:19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,


correct, however you have not shown here why the verse cannot mean every person. God knows how to say, every tribe, and nation, and kindred, and tongue , yet He didn't, God through Paul said all men.


Foghorn---Scripture teaches whoever has been appointed to eternal life will believe.
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


Yes, however if you study this verse you will see that in the Greek language it is in the middle voice, which means that action is being done to them by them. A better English translation for hte word appoint is dispose. They were disposed to eternal life. Why? Because they believed. This fits right into the context as they had just preached to the Jews and the Jews rejected the gospel.


Foghorn---Scripture teaches there are those who just wont come, or stay. Why? ....because they are not of the elect. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.


Who were these that John is speaking of? They were not Christians.


Foghorn---It is obvious that "all men" refers to, all manner of men, of all nations and qualities, Paul refers this to what he had said before : Namely, 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,


It is obvious, how?

Foghorn
Oct 27th 2008, 01:02 AM
These Scriptures do prove it.Sorry Butch, but they do not, at least not in context. But by proof-texting you can prove anything.




This verse says the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, it has as Scripture shows us.
Do you realize what you just said? You have taken a neutral ground seat.



Oh, it can and does mean all men.

1. The Greek word translated men, actually means Human being, so that solves the problem with woman and children.I just used that as an example, you misunderstood my point. Sorry, I thought it might be a bad illustration, me bad.


2. You start with a false premise, you assume what God desires must come to pass. However Scripture teaches otherwise. So, if God desires all to be saved it does not necessitate that all will be saved. So there is no Universalism.God is the Almighty Sovereign Creator of the universe, whatever He will will come to completion. Unless you take away His sovereignty. God does not want.


First of all what is the reason for not accepting the literal reading?Actaully I do accept is as literal, again you mis-understand my reasoning. Literally God desires all men to be saved, as he says, no longer just Jews, also every type of person, within every social class, whether kings, servents ect.....So we should pray for all, literally. This is the literal meaning in the context.



Second, where does it say all "types" of men. Taking your reasoning the verse would refer to only kings and all who are in authority. The verse also says nothing of gender, social rank, age, etc.
Look again, put it all into context.





correct, however you have not shown here why the verse cannot mean every person. God knows how to say, every tribe, and nation, and kindred, and tongue , yet He didn't, God through Paul said all men.Can you show me scriptures to support your understanding of these verses, and supporting verses? there should be.




Yes, however if you study this verse you will see that in the Greek language it is in the middle voice, which means that action is being done to them by them. A better English translation for hte word appoint is dispose. They were disposed to eternal life. Why? Because they believed. This fits right into the context as they had just preached to the Jews and the Jews rejected the gospel.Ok....Why did they believe and the others did not?




Who were these that John is speaking of? They were not Christians Never said they were. The subject is whether God desires all to come to salvation, these scriptures show some will not, can not come. So something must be wrong, either God changed His mind, which we know He cannot do, since He is immutable, or He does not desire al, meaning everyone ever born, to come to salvation.




It is obvious, how?I am sorry you do not see this. Let scripture speak for itself, "sola scriptura" it speaks for and interprets, and perfectly complements itself.

Do you believe every verse is independent and speaks singularly?

Butch5
Oct 27th 2008, 02:37 AM
Foghorn---Sorry Butch, but they do not, at least not in context. But by proof-texting you can prove anything.

I don't proof-text. I take the entirety of Scripture into account.





Foghorn---Do you realize what you just said? You have taken a neutral ground seat.

Please explain.






Foghorn---God is the Almighty Sovereign Creator of the universe, whatever He will will come to completion. Unless you take away His sovereignty. God does not want.

Again, can you show Scripture that says God's will is accomplished every time. I am not saying God couldn't enforce His will entirely, I am saying He doesn't.

Acts 7:51 ( KJV ) 51Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 ( KJV ) 3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Does every single Christian abstain from fornication? No, so in this case the will of God does not come to pass. But on;y because He allows it.



Foghorn---Look again, put it all into context.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 ( KJV ) 1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I don't see anything about all types of men. It says for all men, For kings and all in authority. All men means one of two things, either it means all men or all men, means, kings and all in authority. Neither of these covers all types of men, such as nations gender age.



Foghorn---Can you show me scriptures to support your understanding of these verses, and supporting verses? there should be.

John 1:9 ( KJV ) 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 12:32 ( KJV ) 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Romans 5:18 ( KJV ) 18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Foghorn---Ok....Why did they believe and the others did not?

Because they chose to.


Foghorn---Never said they were. The subject is whether God desires all to come to salvation, these scriptures show some will not, can not come. So something must be wrong, either God changed His mind, which we know He cannot do, since He is immutable, or He does not desire al, meaning everyone ever born, to come to salvation.


I believe this stems from your thinking that God will not allow His will to be disobeyed, however as shown above this is not correct. Many will not come, the vast majority will not come. However I don't think you can show from Scripture anyone that cannot come. God does Change his mind.


Jeremiah 18:8-10 ( KJV ) 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Jeremiah 26:3 ( KJV ) 3If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

Jonah 3:9 ( KJV ) 9Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

Jonah understood that God could change His mind.


Foghorn---I am sorry you do not see this. Let scripture speak for itself, "sola scriptura" it speaks for and interprets, and perfectly complements itself.


Do you believe every verse is independent and speaks singularly?

No, I look at the entirety of Scripture.

Sherry W
Oct 27th 2008, 01:42 PM
Where does scripture teach God wants "everyone" to become a christian?
John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9.

Foghorn
Oct 27th 2008, 09:55 PM
John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9.Sherry, Read these in their context. What is the situation when Jesus speaks to Nicodemus? What is the setting? What is Nicodemus and what is his beliefs?

Who is Peter writing to? Has it ever changed from Christians to unbelievers in this particular letter and subject?


Context is king!..


God Bless.