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David161099
Oct 24th 2008, 05:35 AM
Matthew 5:9

"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God."


I'm interested in getting people's opinions on this verse. Why? Because I am constantly amazed at how Christians try to change the meaning of the words, or try to jutstify them away.

To me the following:
1. This is not a parable or a story or allegoical. It's a straight forward statement. It's quite forceful: "..they will be called.."

2. Jesus didn't need to follow this up with an explanation.

3. This is not a statement made by God's servent, his prophets, it isn't a letter to the Galatians...these are the words of Jesus, the Son of God, who took the trouble of incarnating on earth. These are the words in red in the old bibles. (To me this is a WAKE UP AND LISTEN ANNOUCEMENT).


Me personally I never thought the Beatitudes required an interpreter...what do you think about this one of the peacemakers?


If someone wants to misquote the 'bringing the sword statement', I'm going to include the full passages that relate to it below. In the sense of using the word sword that is allegorical as it means the sword of division. Jesus wants you to follow him, about your family, your group, your village, your country. He knows that will cause conflict of an internal communal nature. This is the sword of division he talks about.



Matthew 10:32-40

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
40"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

Dani H
Oct 24th 2008, 06:08 AM
I'm not going to interpret this verse, because it clearly speaks for itself.

So, I'm going to just probe the depths of it a little bit, if I may.

Jesus is the Prince of Peace. He is, obviously, the Son of God. And, there is perfect peace between the Father and the Son, always, as they are One.

We have peace with God by entering into Jesus' finished work on the cross.

We are admonished to let the peace of God be the arbitrator (referee) within our own selves, in every situation.

To me, a true child of God will let nothing and nobody stand in between them and the peace of God in their hearts. They will permit nobody and nothing to disrupt the peace between themselves and God that has been paid for by the blood of Jesus Himself. They will go to great lengths to get rid of the self-life any time it rears its ugly head to try and squash that peace. They will jealously guard that peace as something very precious, and they will, where necessary, set it above even the most natural of affections, such as that towards their own families. Because the peace of God rests in our spirit, and our natural affections rest in our soul, and when the rubber hits the road, our spirit is always to guide our soul, never the other way around. And sonship happens in the spirit, by the Spirit of God/Spirit of sonship by Whom we cry out "Abba, Father."

That, to me, is a peacemaker. And, really, that's just scratching the surface. Because a person at peace with God will also seek to extend that peace into their relationships with their fellow men, and will soon grieve over everything in not only their own but also another person's life that disrupts that person's peace with God. And they will soon come to hate everything and anything that puts a person out of peace with God.

If every single person in the world today truly was at peace with God, what would happen with our relationships with one another?

No-brainer, in my book. :)

Zack702
Oct 24th 2008, 10:50 AM
Kind of hard to follow that amazing post by DaniHansen so I just want to say peace is great thing. Not sure how people change the meanings of the verse but Jesus gave us the prayer which mentions our father in heaven.

David161099
Oct 24th 2008, 11:22 AM
Kind of hard to follow that amazing post by DaniHansen so I just want to say peace is great thing. Not sure how people change the meanings of the verse but Jesus gave us the prayer which mentions our father in heaven.


They start to change when it requires of them action outside the theoretical.

When asked why they aren't a peacemaker....all sorts of excuses come up...like: "Oh it's says the peacemakers are blessed...that's nice if you are one I suppose but I'm not etc etc."

Scruffy Kid
Oct 24th 2008, 02:07 PM
David (David161099), the OP, asks about Matt. 5:9, Jesus' statement "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God", the 7th Beatitude (of 8 total).
Blessed are the Peacemakers
Matthew 5:9

"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God."I'm interested in getting people's opinions on this verse. Why? Because I am constantly amazed at how Christians try to change the meaning of the words, or try to jutstify them away.

... . This is not a parable or a story or allegoical. It's a straight forward statement. It's quite forceful: "..they will be called.." ...

Me personally I never thought the Beatitudes required an interpreter...what do you think about this one of the peacemakers? As I understand his concern, it is that people get away from the full force of Jesus's saying by getting away from what it actually says. It actually commends the process of making peace. This constitutes a demand upon us, a demand to change our behavior. People want to get away from it because of this.

The question of what "peace" is, Biblically, came up in another thread recently. I tried to get a handle on the question by looking at the usage in the Bible. Here's part of what I found.
... The word "peace" is generally either the Greek "eirene" (in the NT) or the Hebrew "shalom" (in the Tanach, or OT).

The primary reference, in both languages, seems to be to a state of tranquility, the opposite of which would be conflict or war. Certainly, looking through the first couple hundred references to "peace" in the OT, I found the vast majority to be refering to absence of conflict -- either absence of armed conflict with potential foes, or absence of interpersonal conflict in situations where one might fear that tensions with another would result in anger and the like. Many verses explicitly contrast "peace" with "war". ... Again and again the phrase "make peace with" is used to mean settle quarrels with others, or conclude some treaty or agreement with a neighboring king.

Thus, in sum, peace (shalom) in the OT, seems mostly to mean a state of not being in conflict. ...

In the NT, I counted the usages of peace (eirene): The word seems to be used about 109 times. Of these:
36 are general blessings, such as "peace be with you" or "grace and peace"
25 are simply idioms: "hold your peace", etc. (18) or "go in peace" (7)
13 are usages that are general, or hard to classify specifically.
That leaves some 35 usages that are quite specific

Of these 35 usages, where we can distinguish more exactly what's meant:
15 urge us to be at peace with others or say God calls us to peaceableness
11 are referring to peace with God, or inner peace
..7 contrast peace with conflict or war
..2 are Jesus' saying "I came not to bring peace"

Thus, in specific references in the NT, 11 refer to inner peace or peace with God, about 22 refer to peace as distinct from war. Many of these, almost half the 35 specific references are exhorting us to make or preserve peace with other people.

The concept of peace is much broader than just the word "peace", though. All Jesus's teaching puts a very strong emphasis on reconciliation with other people as well as reconciliation with God. This is consistent through the rest of the New Testament as well. Jesus tells us to be willing give gifts even to those who seek to grab our stuff, or our time, and He tells us to love our enemies. He tells us to be reconciled with those who do us wrong, and to not to indulge anger or hold grudges. ... He places great emphasis upon not regarding ourselves as better than others, but rather taking note of our own faults, rather than the faults of others. And he places enormous emphasis upon forgiving others -- something which He links, over and over, in a variety of ways, with God's forgiving us.

Paul tells us to agree with one another and "live in peace" (II Cor 13, Phil. 4, I Thes. 5:13). For "God has called us to peace (I Cor. 7:15) He tells us "If it is possible, as much as it lies with you, live peaceably with all people." (Rom 12:18) This is a part of his general teaching in which he beseeches us, by the mercies of God, to offer our lives to God. (Romans 12 and 13). Therefore he goes on to tell us "to follow after the things which make for peace (Rom 14:19). Similarly, Peter tells, quoting the OT, that the Godly person who wants God's blessing avoids evil, and seeks peace and follows through with that (I Peter 3:11). Peter wants us to act with respect and reverence for others, so that our witness to Christ will be unimpaired. Hebrews also tells us to "Follow peace with all people" (Heb. 12:14)
James also emphasizes that quarrelling, or despising others, is contrary to the gospel. "The wisdom that comes from heaven is ... peace-loving ... Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness!" (4:17-18) But quarrels come from selfishness and lack of trust in God, or greed that shows lack of obedience to God. He tells us not to become angry with one another, or grumble against one another. Jesus similarly urges us to "have peace with one another (Mk 9:50).

Christ's beatitude "blessed are the peacemakers (Matt. 5:9) thus fits into a large context of OT and NT teaching in which we are called to peace and reconciliation with one another, and strictly warned against quarrelling, anger, hatred and war. This is part of even larger themes which concern loving our neighbors, and even our enemies.

It seems to me that spiritualizing the idea of peacemakers -- suggesting that it is just about peace with God -- risks running away from a lot of hard-hitting spiritual and practical teaching which Jesus, and the rest of the Bible, gives us, and missing the plain meaning of Jesus' commendation of peacemaking.

While of course it is important to have peace with God, the Bible also teaches us that our relationship with God is seriously impaired if our relationships with other people are awry. "He who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And He has given us this command: Whoever loves God must love his brother also." (I John 4:20-21).

IMO, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God" is saying that if we want to be living as God's children, we need to be living peacefully, reconciling ourselves with others, and bringing an end to quarrels and wars, here and now. If we don't do that we may flatter ourselves that we are at peace with God, or feel what we suppose to be inner peace, but we are probably deceiving ourselves. Jesus consistently seems to say that if we want to walk with God, we must be reconciled with others.

David161099
Oct 24th 2008, 02:48 PM
WOW! :pp Scruffy Kid want an Amazing response! Thank you!

I agree with your comprehensive overview. Boy is that ever comprehensive!! Amazing!

Thank you for sharing.

To me this is the very path of Jesus that we must walk.

He saved us from our sins, so that we should not hate ourselves, we should be at peace with ourselves and God even though there is evil in the world. His sacrifice allows us this peace.

Dani H
Oct 24th 2008, 02:59 PM
It seems to me that spiritualizing the idea of peacemakers -- suggesting that it is just about peace with God -- risks running away from a lot of hard-hitting spiritual and practical teaching which Jesus, and the rest of the Bible, gives us, and missing the plain meaning of Jesus' commendation of peacemaking.

It is impossible to be at peace with God without obeying His express commandment to love our neighbors. To remain at peace with God demands that we obey and treat people exactly how He would have us treat them, and how God Himself would treat them, and obey His commandments to the uttermost. Peace with God isn't some shut-off in the corner away from everything state of being. It's a practical lifestyle that will always express itself in the way we treat others. You cannot have real peace with God while you mistreat other people, it's impossible. Those who have His peace will always be devoted to the ministry of reconciliation, because that is the ultimate purpose. :)

David161099
Oct 24th 2008, 03:11 PM
It is impossible to be at peace with God without obeying His express commandment to love our neighbors. To remain at peace with God demands that we obey and treat people exactly how He would have us treat them, and how God Himself would treat them, and obey His commandments to the uttermost. Peace with God isn't some shut-off in the corner away from everything state of being. It's a practical lifestyle that will always express itself in the way we treat others. You cannot have real peace with God while you mistreat other people, it's impossible. Those who have His peace will always be devoted to the ministry of reconciliation, because that is the ultimate purpose. :)

Awesome! :pp You are so correct!