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No One
Oct 26th 2008, 03:49 AM
Eternal is defined as having no beginning and no end or lasting forever and yet God says in the Bible I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. You have no beginning and no end and yet you are the beginning and the end? How can that be?

Richard H
Oct 26th 2008, 04:00 AM
Hi No One, :)
Good question. :hmm:
Since God is eternal and we have no real concept of that, if we pictured a beginning or an end, we'd find God there waiting for us.

Richard

BTW: You ARE someone!

Chimon
Oct 26th 2008, 06:56 AM
I agree with Richard. I would also suggest that when God says he is the beginning and the end, he is saying 'I was the beginning of existence (all else that exists came through me) and I am the end of exisitence (one day this world will pass away by my degree.)'

Another interesting question: God does not say 'I was the Alpha and I was the beginning,' or 'I will be the Omega and I will be the end.' God says he IS the beginning, and he IS the end. What does that mean? Why does God phrase it that way? Does this statement suggest that God is outside time?

Zack702
Oct 26th 2008, 09:53 AM
I agree with Chimon. I don't know about outside time but I know alot of care goes into or has gone into preserving the Earth and keeping it rolling. I think it is phrased that way because it is saying God will forever be the Alpha and Omega and the only God.

"18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. "

As far as "having no beginning and no end and yet you are the beginning and the end." (slightly confusing)
It's God the source. I guess on a scientific level all energies have a source. And so the source either is God or was created by God.

Dani H
Oct 26th 2008, 04:01 PM
God is I AM (as He introduced Himself to Moses). God is always now, and He is not confined by time. He created time, but time exists in Him, not the other way around. He was, and is, and is to come. He has never not been and He will never not be.

How do you think God's Spirit can live in all believers at once, and deal with all of God's people, all over the place, at once, and deal with sinners, too? Obviously, God exists in a dimension that goes far beyond 3-dimensional (or even 4 or 5 for that matter).

BroRog
Oct 26th 2008, 06:11 PM
Eternal is defined as having no beginning and no end or lasting forever and yet God says in the Bible I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. You have no beginning and no end and yet you are the beginning and the end? How can that be?

The terms "beginning" and "end" do not refer to time, they refer to process.

The point is this. Our God is a God of process and since he is God, he always finishes what he starts. Finite human beings sometimes start things they don't finish. Everything we do is subject to some kind of contingency. And sometimes we are not able to live to see our project to its completion, which requires someone else to finish it after we are gone.

God is not going to die, such that his projects will remain undone. God is not subject to contingencies such that his projects will be thwarted by circumstances out of his control. What God starts, he finishes.

We find this concept in various places in the scriptures. For instance, the Lord says this to Samuel,

The LORD said to Samuel, "Behold, I am about to do a thing in Israel at which both ears of everyone who hears it will tingle. In that day I will carry out against Eli all that I have spoken concerning his house, from beginning to end. For I have told him that I am about to judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knew, because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them."

God is using the phrase "from beginning to end" to emphasize the fact that he will accomplish "all that I have spoken." He will accomplish his word against Eli to its fullest extent.

In the following passage from Isaiah, God couples the concept of "beginning to end" with the idea of a project that runs from the planning stage to the final accomplished act.

9"Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, 'My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';
11Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man of My purpose from a far country
Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass.
I have planned it, surely I will do it.

To say that God is both the beginning and the ending is to declare, in different words, that whatever God plans to do, he makes it come about to a complete degree. Nothing he sets out to do goes undone. To put it positively, everything God sets out to accomplish will be done to its fullest extent.

In the book of Revelation, in which the readers are to find a blessing, God offers this ray of hope to his readers.

Then He said to me, "It is done I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.

God is saying something like, "based on my track record so far, based on the fact that I always accomplish what I start, you can rest assured that I will give the one who thirsts a drink from the spring of water of life free of charge."

You can take that to the bank. :)

SIG
Oct 26th 2008, 11:59 PM
My (inadequate) take on this:

God, of course, has many names. When He refers to Himself (four times in Revelation) as "Alpha and Omega," He is referring to the alphabet (aleph-bet in Hebrew). This is a reference to the spoken and/or written word. When God created, He spoke all things into existence. This was done by Christ (see John 1), the Logos (Word). In that sense, Christ is the beginning and end of all things visible.

Yet, in His God-ship, as it were, with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, He is uncreated and eternal.

An interesting aside: When Buddha was asked to sum up his entire teaching in the simplest way, he said, "Everything that has a beginning must have an end." This of course implies that there exists that which has no beginning or end.

2Cr 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding [and] eternal weight of glory;
2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.

apothanein kerdos
Oct 27th 2008, 12:01 AM
It's an idiom in Greek. In Greek it means "eternal."

Ethnikos
Oct 27th 2008, 09:46 PM
My guess would be that God is actually scientifically accurate, despite what atheists like to claim.
Back when Revelation was written, the closest thing to "eternity" was a closed loop, like something eventually comes back around.
The "Alpha and Omega" may have been God saying that time is linear.

apothanein kerdos
Oct 30th 2008, 03:10 PM
Infinite and outside of time. Not eternal in the sense that He has eternally existed in a measurable way, but rather that He has simply existed without time. There is no A and B with God - He encompasses all things (hence the Alpha and Omega - He is at both the beginning and the end, thus showing transcendence of time within the use of the idiom).

markinro
Oct 30th 2008, 06:26 PM
Eternal is defined as having no beginning and no end or lasting forever and yet God says in the Bible I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. You have no beginning and no end and yet you are the beginning and the end? How can that be?

Its just another way of declaring His eternal existence. In other words
"The BUCK STOPS HERE" !! :pp

mcgyver
Oct 31st 2008, 01:55 AM
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BroRog
Oct 31st 2008, 02:28 PM
Eternal is defined as having no beginning and no end or lasting forever and yet God says in the Bible I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. You have no beginning and no end and yet you are the beginning and the end? How can that be?

The expression has anything to do with the eternal.