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ross3421
Oct 27th 2008, 01:45 AM
The churches may have the greatest opportunity to witness in the near future.....if they are prepared. Those which will be prepared with the necessities of life, food and shelter, will have a great influence in times of despair. Should not the church be those of influence?

There well may be a "greater" depression on the horizon and the church needs to position itself to be a source of influence and if in these times they can provide the staples of life then of course many in the future would be set up to hear the gospel message. Many flocked to their local church in the 30's and Christ himself provided these things to those which followed him while providing them eternal food.

Mark

Kudo Shinichi
Oct 27th 2008, 02:05 PM
So that means, you need to tell them, that there is supply to those Christians who live in Tribulation, right??? Even though, store amounts of necessities of life won't last that long ????

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The churches may have the greatest opportunity to witness in the near future.....if they are prepared. Those which will be prepared with the necessities of life, food and shelter, will have a great influence in times of despair. Should not the church be those of influence?

There well may be a "greater" depression on the horizon and the church needs to position itself to be a source of influence and if in these times they can provide the staples of life then of course many in the future would be set up to hear the gospel message. Many flocked to their local church in the 30's and Christ himself provided these things to those which followed him while providing them eternal food.

Mark

jesuslover1968
Oct 27th 2008, 02:21 PM
Luke 12:28~ If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?


Matthew 6:19-20~ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20~But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Matthew 6:25-35~Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26~Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?27~Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28~And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29~And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30~Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31~Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32~(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33~But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34~Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

You won't be able to store food and clothes and such up, anyway. The ac is not just a man. he will have the power of the devil and all his demons behind him. Hiding out and storing food are just fantasy thoughts, not reality.

Marc B
Oct 27th 2008, 02:28 PM
Of course it wouldn't hurt to learn to live off the land and live in the outdoors should the need arise.

jesuslover1968
Oct 27th 2008, 02:31 PM
Or we could try something like, say, trusting in God? Hmm? :)

Whispering Grace
Oct 27th 2008, 02:33 PM
Or we could try something like, say, trusting in God? Hmm? :)

It is not unbiblical to store up food for future need. The Lord directed Joseph to do just that.

jesuslover1968
Oct 27th 2008, 02:34 PM
It is not unbiblical to store up food and supplies for future need. The Lord directed Joseph to do just that.


I agree, and understand that He did. But has he directed us to do that?

Whispering Grace
Oct 27th 2008, 02:48 PM
I agree, and understand that He did. But has he directed us to do that?

I don't think so as a whole, but I do know of certain individuals whom the Lord has instructed to store up food and supplies.

I know of many people who refuse to plan ahead and stockpile, saying they are trusting in the Lord, as if stockpiling for future need isn't trusting in the Lord.

It is true that the Lord will supply our need, but He could very well do that by having us store up food now for use in the future.

Studyin'2Show
Oct 27th 2008, 02:49 PM
Of course it wouldn't hurt to learn to live off the land and live in the outdoors should the need arise.I agree and feel that rather than storehousing supplies it would be much more effective to teach people how to grow their own food. Last year I was led to try my hand at gardening. I learned a whole lot! We had a good crop of tomatoes, cucumbers, green onions, and lettuce. That was just out on my terrace. I will be moving to South Carolina next summer and hope to buy a property with a large lot so I can grow more. There was a time when most households, not just farmers, grew their own vegetables and fruit. Now as a supplement to what we buy but if it were ever needed it could keep a family from starving. Btw, it's not at all about fear. I learned sooooo much about the law of sowing and reaping which in turn opened up so many scriptures that I felt I already understood. Putting that seed into the soil and watching it either grow or not grow really taught me a lot.

God Bless!

jesuslover1968
Oct 27th 2008, 02:59 PM
I don't think so as a whole, but I do know of certain individuals whom the Lord has instructed to store up food and supplies.

I know of many people who refuse to plan ahead and stockpile, saying they are trusting in the Lord, as if stockpiling for future need isn't trusting in the Lord.

It is true that the Lord will supply our need, but He could very well do that by having us store up food now for use in the future.


I do agree with you, really. The problem is, scripture is complete, and He hasn't told us to do that. He has told us not to worry about tomorrow.
The reason I stay on this subject is not to argue, but to bring attention to the fact that storing food, in some instances, is unbiblical, as there are many people out there right now starving to death while us more fortunate people are storing up food we may never even need. Do you see where I'm coming from?
I do think we all need to learn how to grow our own food, I think that was the way it was meant to be. :) I honestly don't worry about what will happen during the tribulation because number one, I believe we will be raptured, and number two, even if we aren't, God WILL provide for me. He may lead me at that time to store up food and hide, I don't know, but I do know He promised to take care of me, and I believe Him. :) God Bless.

Whispering Grace
Oct 27th 2008, 03:34 PM
I do agree with you, really. The problem is, scripture is complete, and He hasn't told us to do that. He has told us not to worry about tomorrow.

Not worrying about tomorrow does not equate to not being prepared. I do not worry about dying, but I do have life insurance so my family will be taken care of if I die. I also have health insurance for future medical needs, though I do not fret over getting sick.



The reason I stay on this subject is not to argue, but to bring attention to the fact that storing food, in some instances, is unbiblical, as there are many people out there right now starving to death while us more fortunate people are storing up food we may never even need. Do you see where I'm coming from?


I do see where you are coming from. But I don't believe people who are stockpiling food are planning to horde it just for themselves when the need arises. The Lord commanded Joseph to stockpile food not for his own benefit, but for the benefit of many.


I do think we all need to learn how to grow our own food, I think that was the way it was meant to be. :) I honestly don't worry about what will happen during the tribulation because number one, I believe we will be raptured, and number two, even if we aren't, God WILL provide for me. He may lead me at that time to store up food and hide, I don't know, but I do know He promised to take care of me, and I believe Him. :) God Bless.

I agree that God will take care of me one way or another. And for that, I am grateful.

cavscout
Oct 28th 2008, 12:56 AM
Jesuslover1968, I am guessing by your screen name you are 40ish. I just have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

Do you have a full time job?
Do you grocery shop, keep say a weeks worth of food in the cabinets?
Do you carry any type of insurance on yourself or you personal property?
Do you own or rent a place to live?
Do you contribute to any type of retirement plan?

If you answered yes to any of the above questions, then you are guilty of the same thing you are condemning others for.

The lord says he will provide for us, so really, we don't need all of the things listed above, because he will take care of us. I believe whole heatedly that the Lord WILL provide for his people, but he gives us the means to do it. If I go to the store, buy a steak, take it home, cook it, put it on a plate and sit down at the table, I will most likely starve to death if I do not cut a bite of it and put it in my mouth and swallow it. Though I am not foolish enough to think that God can not do whatever He wants.

I do believe there are those that are led to prepare for the future. Not for fear that the lord will not provide, but with the knowledge that he is providing. If we do everything in our power and we are down to our last drop of water, and there is nothing else humanly possible left for us to do, that is when you will SEE the hand of God as plain as day. Sit there with your legs crossed twiddling your thumbs saying "The lord will provide", and not using the ability and resources he has given you and you will likely find yourself there when the Lord returns.

If you do not feel led to prepare, don't do it. But others, I think, are being led to prepare, so please do not call them un-Biblical for doing so. Unless you can point to a passage of scripture that says "do not prepare for the future".

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 01:07 PM
Jesuslover1968, I am guessing by your screen name you are 40ish. I just have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

Do you have a full time job?
Do you grocery shop, keep say a weeks worth of food in the cabinets?
Do you carry any type of insurance on yourself or you personal property?
Do you own or rent a place to live?
Do you contribute to any type of retirement plan?

If you answered yes to any of the above questions, then you are guilty of the same thing you are condemning others for.

The lord says he will provide for us, so really, we don't need all of the things listed above, because he will take care of us. I believe whole heatedly that the Lord WILL provide for his people, but he gives us the means to do it. If I go to the store, buy a steak, take it home, cook it, put it on a plate and sit down at the table, I will most likely starve to death if I do not cut a bite of it and put it in my mouth and swallow it. Though I am not foolish enough to think that God can not do whatever He wants.

I do believe there are those that are led to prepare for the future. Not for fear that the lord will not provide, but with the knowledge that he is providing. If we do everything in our power and we are down to our last drop of water, and there is nothing else humanly possible left for us to do, that is when you will SEE the hand of God as plain as day. Sit there with your legs crossed twiddling your thumbs saying "The lord will provide", and not using the ability and resources he has given you and you will likely find yourself there when the Lord returns.

If you do not feel led to prepare, don't do it. But others, I think, are being led to prepare, so please do not call them un-Biblical for doing so. Unless you can point to a passage of scripture that says "do not prepare for the future".


well, you have pulled what I was saying out of context, so it is you, my friend, who need to be careful of condemnation. I wasn't speaking of a 'weeks worth of groceries,' and I don't think anyone else thought I was, either. I was talking about people who stockpile food, as in lots and lots. Like say, uhm, the Mormons do, or any person or group of people that think a stockpile of food is going to let them survive in the endtimes. That indeed is trying to 'help' God. How do you think all these people will feel when food and water that they have stored for years is denied them because they won't take the mark of the beast? Do you think the gov. will let them keep their food? That would be defeating the purpose, wouldn't it?
As for your very nosy questions above, they really suited no purpose, but were added, I think, to the poison dart you were shooting my way.
As for scripture pertaining to what I was saying, I already gave it in a previous post, try reading it? God Bless. :) :hug:

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 01:52 PM
You won't be able to store food and clothes and such up, anyway. The ac is not just a man. he will have the power of the devil and all his demons behind him. Hiding out and storing food are just fantasy thoughts, not reality.
I dont agree with that statement...
It assumes that the AC will be interested in jungle inhabitants, native dwellers, African bushpeople and etc...It seems to me that the AC will concentrate his efforts where it will have the maximum effect. Where civilization is found!

Any who can disappear into the wilds (there will be very few) those who can flee into the wilderness(as the scripture says) will be better able to elude the AC and his forces than those who stockpile food in their house in suburbia. Stockpiles in suburbia may be fantasy, but escape to the wilderness for those who prepare ahead of time in not fantasy.

Further, we will only have to survive about 3 years from what I can tell. The first 3.5 yrs of the 7 year reign of the AC is peace and prosperity. SO no problem here yet! Then the second half of his reign (which God says he will shorten for the sake of the elect) is the the problem.

The ac is unlikely to waste resources chasing a few "looney" christians into the wilderness when he can marshal all of the civilized world under his control.

Water and dehydrated food, clothing, and roofs are key componants of escape. All normal Houses require real estate taxes to be paid during the 3.5 yrs torment...so suburbia is royaly exposed and its people who don't take the mark emminently arrestable. But tents, caves and temperate climates where outside dwelling is reasonable to consider for short term survival are definitely something to consider. Those who subscribe to the "God will never let me get hurt" theology must consider Hitlers works. During those days Hitlers servants didnt waste time searching endless mountain ranges, there was too much to do with train loads of people to round up from their houses who thought they could hide in plain view!

Those who did hide in mountains and such may have still been caught on occassion and certainly it was hard for them but at least they were a little safer than suburban dwellers.

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 02:01 PM
I dont agree with that statement...
It assumes that the AC will be interested in jungle inhabitants, native dwellers, African bushpeople and etc...It seems to me that the AC will concentrate his efforts where it will have the maximum effect. Where civilization is found!



I agree with that statement...we are civilization....





Any who can disappear into the wilds (there will be very few) those who can flee into the wilderness(as the scripture says) will be better able to elude the AC and his forces than those who stockpile food in their house in suburbia. Stockpiles in suburbia may be fantasy, but escape to the wilderness for those who prepare ahead of time in not fantasy.

you don't think the gov. will have people out searching for such eluders?


Further, we will only have to survive about 3 years from what I can tell. The first 3.5 yrs of the 7 year reign of the AC is peace and prosperity. SO no problem here yet! Then the second half of his reign (which God says he will shorten for the sake of the elect) is the the problem.

ok, I disagree with this. They think it's peace and prosperity, but it won't be. I think any who believe in God will begin suffering before the great trib starts. The problem is that we were not meant for God's wrath...


The ac is unlikely to waste resources chasing a few "looney" christians into the wilderness when he can marshal all of the civilized world under his control.

I think it is wise to know your enemy. underestimating the enemy can be our downfall.
I don't think a few missing christians will be his uppermost priorty, but I do think he will search for them to use as examples...


Water and dehydrated food, clothing, and roofs are key componants of escape. All normal Houses require real estate taxes to be paid during the 3.5 yrs torment...so suburbia is royaly exposed and its people who don't take the mark emminently arrestable. But tents, caves and temperate climates where outside dwelling is reasonable to consider for short term survival are definitely something to consider. Those who subscribe to the "God will never let me get hurt" theology must consider Hitlers works. During those days Hitlers servants didnt waste time searching endless mountain ranges, there was too much to do with train loads of people to round up from their houses who thought they could hide in plain view!

I have considered that. I believe in the rapture, though, so I don't believe I will be here.


Those who did hide in mountains and such may have still been caught on occassion and certainly it was hard for them but at least they were a little safer than suburban dwellers.

safety is an illusion, isn't it? We are never really safe, unless we are in the arms of God. I for one have no desire to be here in that time. If, however, I am wrong, and there is no rapture, Whatever God wills will be done. God Bless.

moonglow
Oct 28th 2008, 02:05 PM
I think the OP was talking about another Great Depression coming on..not the tribulation...


ross3421
Churches should start stocking up food supplies
The churches may have the greatest opportunity to witness in the near future.....if they are prepared. Those which will be prepared with the necessities of life, food and shelter, will have a great influence in times of despair. Should not the church be those of influence?

There well may be a "greater" depression on the horizon and the church needs to position itself to be a source of influence and if in these times they can provide the staples of life then of course many in the future would be set up to hear the gospel message. Many flocked to their local church in the 30's and Christ himself provided these things to those which followed him while providing them eternal food.

Mark

What happened in the 30's? The Great depression.

If the OP meant the tribulation it would make no sense to me for the churches to stock food as that is the FIRST place the beast's thugs would go too and raid...all the churches....

Going house to house though? There are 305,519,944 people in the US and counting...image the man power it would take to go from home to home? It would take too many and too long! Certainly more then three and a half years to search every home in the US...not to mention all the other developed countries. Image the price tag on that? I don't think it would be physically possible to do it...and why bother anyway when you can just shut down all the grocery store and cut off the source of food? Of course then people would sell food on the black market...in secret...there are always ways around this stuff...but to store food in churches? That would make no sense at all...

God bless

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 02:15 PM
safety is an illusion, isn't it? We are never really safe, unless we are in the arms of God. I for one have no desire to be here in that time. If, however, I am wrong, and there is no rapture, Whatever God wills will be done. God Bless.

If you believe in a pretrib rapture why are you trying to correct the practical planning of those who are post trib? I don't understand why you would do that?:hmm:

Further, your statement: "Whatever God wills will be done." can't be genuine in the face of the rest of what you say, so you must be trying to make a point but i missed it. "Qua sera sera"-whatever will be will be, is the strong hold of those who prefer not to be active. Clearly you are active, you press your point with honest vigor so you aren't letting whatever will be,be! You are intelligent, intend not to be unduly influences in the absence of convincing evidence and etc.. you are the ultimate christian in that sense. Surely then, if you do happen to be wrong on the timing of the trib, it is reasonable to believe you will not sit down and say...Whatever God wills will be done. No indeed, I think you will be quick about your whits and seek safety where ever it may be obtained.

I'd like to expand this discussion with you more, would you mind sharing more of your thoughts on this matter so we can have a robust thread and discourse even more, together as friends?

DF1

Buzzword
Oct 28th 2008, 02:19 PM
Sounds too much like pre-Y2K paranoia to me.

Though, from what I've heard Oklahoma City is hardly being affected by the economic downturn (gas price is down to $1.99/gal here :D) so I may just not be as concerned as others.


If the OP is referring to the great tribulation, Christ comes as a thief in the night, which to me means that none of this "He'll be here before the decade is out!" type of thing has any viability.

cavscout
Oct 28th 2008, 02:37 PM
If you think I am throwing a poison dart at you, I apologize, that was no my intent and I am in no way condemning anything you have done. But your blanket statement that people who stockpile food or store up for tough times are acting unbiblical is untrue and very irresponsible. And yes, it had a tone of condemnation to it.


Luke 12:28~ If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?


Matthew 6:19-20~ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20~But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Matthew 6:25-35~Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26~Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?27~Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28~And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29~And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30~Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31~Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32~(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33~But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34~Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


I am guessing you are referring to this passage of scripture. Yes, I did read it and I understand what it means, but this is referring to "treasures" not food that may get you and your family through a rough period. As or the questions, they were not intending to be nosy, but are very much relevant to your argument. Who determines when you have to much stored away, You? What is the difference in buying a weeks worth of groceries or a years worth? What is the difference in saving $50 or $50,000? You are treading that thin line of pointing fingers at people that do not think as you do and you are trying to use scripture to back it up. The Lord never once tells us not to prepare for our futures, He does tell us not to worry about our future though. Which He says in the scripture you quoted. Again I say, if you don't feel like you are being led to prepare for the times to come, then don't do it. Others have been led to prepare and I am sure, myself included, they would be more than willing to share with you should you ever need. But wait, that would mean that God was providing for you in your time of need, would it not?

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 02:43 PM
If you believe in a pretrib rapture why are you trying to correct the practical planning of those who are post trib? I don't understand why you would do that?:hmm:

Further, your statement: "Whatever God wills will be done." can't be genuine in the face of the rest of what you say, so you must be trying to make a point but i missed it. "Qua sera sera"-whatever will be will be, is the strong hold of those who prefer not to be active. Clearly you are active, you press your point with honest vigor so you aren't letting whatever will be,be! You are intelligent, intend not to be unduly influences in the absence of convincing evidence and etc.. you are the ultimate christian in that sense. Surely then, if you do happen to be wrong on the timing of the trib, it is reasonable to believe you will not sit down and say...Whatever God wills will be done. No indeed, I think you will be quick about your whits and seek safety where ever it may be obtained.

I'd like to expand this discussion with you more, would you mind sharing more of your thoughts on this matter so we can have a robust thread and discourse even more, together as friends?

DF1


Of course.
And you are correct. I wouldn't just sit down and accept defeat, for as Christians, we are not defeated. When I say that whatever God wills, will be done, I don't mean that in a defeatist attitude in the least, and I apologize if it seemed that way. I think God will lead and guide His people, me included, if we are wrong about the rapture. I trust God and His promises, and that is what I meant.
As for the thread, start it and I will join in.

as for the post trib position, I don't mean to demean them, or their planning, and if I did that, I am sorry. I just want everyone to see things realistically and understand what the horrors are going to be, and it isn't going to be as easy as so many seem to think. It comes of love and concern, not condemnation at all. God Bless.

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 02:54 PM
If you think I am throwing a poison dart at you, I apologize, that was no my intent and I am in no way condemning anything you have done. But your blanket statement that people who stockpile food or store up for tough times are acting unbiblical is untrue and very irresponsible. And yes, it had a tone of condemnation to it.

you have misunderstood what I was saying, which I tried to explain....as well as twisting what I actually said. I don't make blanket statements very often, and if you thought this was one of those times, you were wrong. :)
I am condemning no one, as I stated. I just think it is irresponible to think that you can stockpile food and survive the tribulation on your own steam, and that is what I am addressing, so if you thought anything otherwise, you were mistaken.





I am guessing you are referring to this passage of scripture. Yes, I did read it and I understand what it means, but this is referring to "treasures" not food that may get you and your family through a rough period.
treasures on earth are anything that we covet....so yes, it could be food in time of need.




As or the questions, they were not intending to be nosy, but are very much relevant to your argument. Who determines when you have to much stored away, You?
I would think that would be up to God, not man. If you have so much stuff piled back, and you feel guilt, then it is too much. :)




What is the difference in buying a weeks worth of groceries or a years worth?

what is the difference between $100 wasted and $100 dollars to starving people? Really that was a bad question.


What is the difference in saving $50 or $50,000?
we will leave this world as we came into it, whether we have $50 or $50,000.



You are treading that thin line of pointing fingers at people that do not think as you do and you are trying to use scripture to back it up. The Lord never once tells us not to prepare for our futures, He does tell us not to worry about our future though. Which He says in the scripture you quoted.

I think you are splitting hairs, and are in fact pointing fingers at me because you have misunderstood my intent. I gave scripture, not to try to prove my point, but to make my point valid, which it was, and still is.



Again I say, if you don't feel like you are being led to prepare for the times to come, then don't do it. Others have been led to prepare and I am sure, myself included, they would be more than willing to share with you should you ever need. But wait, that would mean that God was providing for you in your time of need, would it not?



Now see, this is just insulting. I never one time denied that God would take care of me and all His people in their time of need, in fact, that is exactly what I was getting at to begin, and end, with. God Bless.

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 03:22 PM
Of course.
And you are correct. I wouldn't just sit down and accept defeat, for as Christians, we are not defeated. When I say that whatever God wills, will be done, I don't mean that in a defeatist attitude in the least, and I apologize if it seemed that way. I think God will lead and guide His people, me included, if we are wrong about the rapture. I trust God and His promises, and that is what I meant.
As for the thread, start it and I will join in.

as for the post trib position, I don't mean to demean them, or their planning, and if I did that, I am sorry. I just want everyone to see things realistically and understand what the horrors are going to be, and it isn't going to be as easy as so many seem to think. It comes of love and concern, not condemnation at all. God Bless.
Thanks brother, I share your concern for the unrealistic thinking in many who profess Christ. Yes, it is a dangerous thing.
Assuming a pretrib rapture negates the need for any further discussion because we won't be here, and those who are left behind are unlikely to find our boards once the Antichrist has control of the net.

This type of discussion then is best for "post"ies. Now as I count myself among the "post"ies but hope I am wrong. I take the AC rule VERY seriously. But I also take a lot of input from others and think I have come to a position that is fairly robust. I have to thank pretribbers and post tribbers for this position, Particularly, Quiet Dove, Daughter, and moonglow (WHy is it the women make the best arguement? Hmm, Silly question:rofl:)

Anyway, before I get myself in any further trouble...
Living through the last half of the trib is the real issue. There is a scripture that says we are not in the darkness as the rest of the world is..
we shall understand the time better than the world.. so..
During the first three and a half years we will watch the development and get scared beyond Y2K standards, except the media will poo poo us and etc..
Now comes the real thinking.... The AC will focus primarily on the civilized parts of society. (thats not to say he will fail to make a show of fringe elements when he can) he will be busy getting the mark (whatever it is real or symbolic) on everyone, of tracking down and identifying those who refuse the mark. To do that he will need the use of computers, the worlds financial system and etc... in other words modern civilization is his key to getting to us. If we think for one moment we can hide in our homes and simply trade under the counter we are stupid. The Jews of the holocaust learned the hard way that for every one who survived that way there were tens of thousands who did not! Our houses require property taxes. Our cars require gas, our pantries require food, all has to be bought with money that the AC tracks, and no mark, no purchase!

Thus while many Christians take the view that .."well God will protect me".. many others will say, "OK, sit on a log, but I am going to the wilderness for 3 years or so. I will be near water or have some type of cold filtration system, or purification tablets... " I will have dried food, spare clothing, and I will be FAR away from civilization"

Now Far away does not mean Montana! I think to be honest that few Christians will find it easy to escape the devils snares but some will. That is what the wilderness is for. Those who say that there will not be wholesale slaughter of Christians are playing a very dangerous game with history as a clue to their error. How many Christians died in Russia under Stalin and etc..? How many in China? How many? How many? I have tears for those who have died in the struggle for their faith and we sit in our comfy American lazyboy chairs and say, NAH, it aint gonna happen to me, God will protect me!

NO! I say he won't protect you if you won't protect yourself. Scripture ios full of proff about that. He won't work starves, he who won't defend himself will be the victim!

Further, for those who cannot run (disabled, didnt really believe it etc) they have to prepare a different way. WHen the AC's servant put a gun to your son's head and say accept the mark of the Beast willingly or we blow his head off what will they say. My sons have been taught if the gun is at my head and they are to choose they are to say "See you in heaven dad" Because they know full well that they will be joining me soon anyway.

Those who stay will starve, be rounded up, be abused and etc..

So you are right, if Christians think the trib is a cake walk for themselves they are in for a nasty shock, and I am doing my best to help them wake up.

Thanks for your post. Please rip this post apart as best you can. You will be sharpening my sword and that is what I am begging you to do!:o Yep, I mean what I say.. rip it apart please!

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 03:37 PM
Thanks brother, I share your concern for the unrealistic thinking in many who profess Christ. Yes, it is a dangerous thing.

First off, I must address your error. I am a woman...:rofl:


Assuming a pretrib rapture negates the need for any further discussion because we won't be here, and those who are left behind are unlikely to find our boards once the Antichrist has control of the net.
perhaps, perhaps not...


This type of discussion then is best for "post"ies. Now as I count myself among the "post"ies but hope I am wrong. I take the AC rule VERY seriously. But I also take a lot of input from others and think I have come to a position that is fairly robust. I have to thank pretribbers and post tribbers for this position, Particularly, Quiet Dove, Daughter, and moonglow (WHy is it the women make the best arguement? Hmm, Silly question:rofl:)
I have to disagree that this discussion is best for posties, when we pretribbers believe we are right, as well.





Anyway, before I get myself in any further trouble...
Living through the last half of the trib is the real issue. There is a scripture that says we are not in the darkness as the rest of the world is..
we shall understand the time better than the world.. so..

Time to sharpen some iron....:) if we are not in darkness, and we are still here, we will be able to count the days of the trib, as well as the day of His coming, hypothetically, of course. Not to mention we would know who the ac really is and we would be causing all kinds of trouble, making it hard for the ac to complete his plans, or to wait to begin executing us...I'll stop there and let you chomp on that for a bit...



During the first three and a half years we will watch the development and get scared beyond Y2K standards, except the media will poo poo us and etc..
I could agree with this. IF I am wrong.


Now comes the real thinking.... The AC will focus primarily on the civilized parts of society. (thats not to say he will fail to make a show of fringe elements when he can) he will be busy getting the mark (whatever it is real or symbolic) on everyone, of tracking down and identifying those who refuse the mark. To do that he will need the use of computers, the worlds financial system and etc... in other words modern civilization is his key to getting to us. If we think for one moment we can hide in our homes and simply trade under the counter we are stupid. The Jews of the holocaust learned the hard way that for every one who survived that way there were tens of thousands who did not! Our houses require property taxes. Our cars require gas, our pantries require food, all has to be bought with money that the AC tracks, and no mark, no purchase!

I would agree.


Thus while many Christians take the view that .."well God will protect me".. many others will say, "OK, sit on a log, but I am going to the wilderness for 3 years or so. I will be near water or have some type of cold filtration system, or purification tablets... " I will have dried food, spare clothing, and I will be FAR away from civilization"

I also agree. The Bible is explicit about those who are IN Him being killed. As for your last statement, I have thought about it, of course.



Now Far away does not mean Montana! I think to be honest that few Christians will find it easy to escape the devils snares but some will. That is what the wilderness is for. Those who say that there will not be wholesale slaughter of Christians are playing a very dangerous game with history as a clue to their error. How many Christians died in Russia under Stalin and etc..? How many in China? How many? How many? I have tears for those who have died in the struggle for their faith and we sit in our comfy American lazyboy chairs and say, NAH, it aint gonna happen to me, God will protect me!


I would also agree.



NO! I say he won't protect you if you won't protect yourself. Scripture ios full of proff about that. He won't work starves, he who won't defend himself will be the victim!

well, I agree to a point. God won't help those who won't trust in Him. As for defending...if you kill by the sword, you will die by it...


Further, for those who cannot run (disabled, didnt really believe it etc) they have to prepare a different way. WHen the AC's servant put a gun to your son's head and say accept the mark of the Beast willingly or we blow his head off what will they say. My sons have been taught if the gun is at my head and they are to choose they are to say "See you in heaven dad" Because they know full well that they will be joining me soon anyway.

a very sobering thought, indeed.



Those who stay will starve, be rounded up, be abused and etc..

I agree.



So you are right, if Christians think the trib is a cake walk for themselves they are in for a nasty shock, and I am doing my best to help them wake up.
as am I. :)


Thanks for your post. Please rip this post apart as best you can. You will be sharpening my sword and that is what I am begging you to do!:o

lol....scary, huh?

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 03:52 PM
lol....scary, huh?

Thanks for the iron on iron work... I can shave better now!;)

I expect Moonglow will be along in a minute to share her review of my post, she's usually got a lot of good takes on these types of posts. By the way, sorry for calling you brother, sister. (Question, when we are in heaven, before we get our new bodies at the resurrection.. what sex will we be? :lol:)

It isnt bad enough that I made fun of women asking questions, but I made the post to a woman I thought was a man.... yipes:o

Anyway, I want a pre-trib solution, obviously! But these discussions are only needed if the "pre" position is wrong.

I'm thinking.... south America, somewhere temperate, lower brazil perhaps?? Yeah, I could live on brazil nuts!!!

Its the spiders I worry about!:rofl:

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 03:57 PM
Thanks for the iron on iron work... I can shave better now!;)

I expect Moonglow will be along in a minute to share her review of my post, she's usually got a lot of good takes on these types of posts. By the way, sorry for calling you brother, sister. (Question, when we are in heaven, before we get our new bodies at the resurrection.. what sex will we be? :lol:)

Never thought about that. I mean, hmmm, I could say I would still be a woman, but then Paul tells us there is no longer male nor female...

It isnt bad enough that I made fun of women asking questions, but I made the post to a woman I thought was a man.... yipes:o

Anyway, I want a pre-trib solution, obviously! But these discussions are only needed if the "pre" position is wrong.

I'm thinking.... south America, somewhere temperate, lower brazil perhaps?? Yeah, I could live on brazil nuts!!!

Its the spiders I worry about!:rofl:

uhm...nah, I would think a deserted island, actually...

and no, I think we all need to discuss these things, as it does sharpen us and may make us see more clearly what God is telling us...

as for what sex we will be, I never really thought about that before. I mean, I could say I would still be a woman, but Paul tells us there is no more male nor female....hmmm...good question.

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 04:00 PM
uhm...nah, I would think a deserted island, actually...

and no, I think we all need to discuss these things, as it does sharpen us and may make us see more clearly what God is telling us...


UGGG coconuts! You must be a woman!
Coconuts and salt water? what are you thinking?

Bad planning, bad planning!

Give me the map.. -actually, we don't need a map, I know where I'm going. Follow me!:eek:

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 04:02 PM
UGGG coconuts! You must be a woman!
Coconuts and salt water? what are you thinking?

Bad planning, bad planning!

Give me the map.. -actually, we don't need a map, I know where I'm going. Follow me!:eek:



LOL, nah, I don't like coconuts, what I was actually thinking is that the less people there are, the easier it would be to defend, and to tell if your perimeters had been breached...

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 04:32 PM
LOL, nah, I don't like coconuts, what I was actually thinking is that the less people there are, the easier it would be to defend, and to tell if your perimeters had been breached...

It would have to be a pretty big island or it would be too easy for the AC to round us up like cattle and drop napalm on us. Etc...

Personally I prefer the captain Kirk method.....


"Beam me up"

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 04:38 PM
It would have to be a pretty big island or it would be too easy for the AC to round us up like cattle and drop napalm on us. Etc...

Personally I prefer the captain Kirk method.....


"Beam me up"


Exactly, as do I. :)

cavscout
Oct 28th 2008, 05:59 PM
you have misunderstood what I was saying, which I tried to explain....as well as twisting what I actually said. I don't make blanket statements very often, and if you thought this was one of those times, you were wrong.
I am condemning no one, as I stated. I just think it is irresponsible to think that you can stockpile food and survive the tribulation on your own steam, and that is what I am addressing, so if you thought anything otherwise, you were mistaken.

If I have misunderstood you, I apologize, I simply read what you wrote and took it for what it said. I cannot survive today on my own, let alone through the tribulation. It is only By God's grace that I am still alive today.





treasures on earth are anything that we covet....so yes, it could be food in time of need.

I will use whatever I have now or then to help who ever needs it. There is only one thing I will take with me from this life and that is my Salvation. Everything else came from the dust of the earth and that is where it will return



I would think that would be up to God, not man. If you have so much stuff piled back, and you feel guilt, then it is too much.

This was a statement you made a few posts back: The reason I stay on this subject is not to argue, but to bring attention to the fact that storing food, in some instances, is unbiblical. I understand that you said "in some instances", but what instances are unbiblical and who determines them? You obviously have some cases in your mind that would be unbiblical, as do I, but it is not your place or my place to decide which ones are and which ones are not. Maybe you would feel guilty about having 2 weeks worth of food and I do not feel guilty about having 2 years worth of food. Who is right and who is wrong? In the end, it will all be used for the glory of God.





what is the difference between $100 wasted and $100 dollars to starving people? Really that was a bad question.

But you still have not answered it. I guess it depends on whose $100 it is. You may think $100 worth of fishing tackle is a waste, but I don't. I may think $100 on flowers is a waste, but you might not. Let me rephrase the question then. Where is the line drawn on to much?

we will leave this world as we came into it, whether we have $50 or $50,000.

Again , you have not answered the question. When do we have enough? Does Bill Gates have enough or does the homeless man on the street corner have to much?




I think you are splitting hairs, and are in fact pointing fingers at me because you have misunderstood my intent. I gave scripture, not to try to prove my point, but to make my point valid, which it was, and still is.

Not splitting hairs, just pointing out what the scripture is really telling us. It's telling us not to WORRY about the future, not to not prepare for it.


Now see, this is just insulting. I never one time denied that God would take care of me and all His people in their time of need, in fact, that is exactly what I was getting at to begin, and end, with. God Bless.

I apologize, the last statement was meant as sarcasm, and was easily taken the wrong way. I do believe the Lord WILL take care of his children in their hour of need, but I also believe he gives us the means to take care of ourselves. I am a husband and a father and I am instructed to provide for my family or I am worse than an unbeliever. Part of that is preparing for their future, not just a week’s worth or a month’s worth, but for their FUTURE. I agree with you, the Christians that will survive the tribulation will be few and far between, and I am leaning more towards hard times before the tribulation, as the likely hood of an entire family surviving the trib are slim and none, but there will be those that do. They will survive because of God's hand and God's hand on their heart to prepare.

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 06:06 PM
you have misunderstood what I was saying, which I tried to explain....as well as twisting what I actually said. I don't make blanket statements very often, and if you thought this was one of those times, you were wrong.
I am condemning no one, as I stated. I just think it is irresponsible to think that you can stockpile food and survive the tribulation on your own steam, and that is what I am addressing, so if you thought anything otherwise, you were mistaken.

If I have misunderstood you, I apologize, I simply read what you wrote and took it for what it said. I cannot survive today on my own, let alone through the tribulation. It is only By God's grace that I am still alive today.





treasures on earth are anything that we covet....so yes, it could be food in time of need.

I will use whatever I have now or then to help who ever needs it. There is only one thing I will take with me from this life and that is my Salvation. Everything else came from the dust of the earth and that is where it will return



I would think that would be up to God, not man. If you have so much stuff piled back, and you feel guilt, then it is too much.

This was a statement you made a few posts back: The reason I stay on this subject is not to argue, but to bring attention to the fact that storing food, in some instances, is unbiblical. I understand that you said "in some instances", but what instances are unbiblical and who determines them? You obviously have some cases in your mind that would be unbiblical, as do I, but it is not your place or my place to decide which ones are and which ones are not. Maybe you would feel guilty about having 2 weeks worth of food and I do not feel guilty about having 2 years worth of food. Who is right and who is wrong? In the end, it will all be used for the glory of God.





what is the difference between $100 wasted and $100 dollars to starving people? Really that was a bad question.

But you still have not answered it. I guess it depends on whose $100 it is. You may think $100 worth of fishing tackle is a waste, but I don't. I may think $100 on flowers is a waste, but you might not. Let me rephrase the question then. Where is the line drawn on to much?

we will leave this world as we came into it, whether we have $50 or $50,000.

Again , you have not answered the question. When do we have enough? Does Bill Gates have enough or does the homeless man on the street corner have to much?




I think you are splitting hairs, and are in fact pointing fingers at me because you have misunderstood my intent. I gave scripture, not to try to prove my point, but to make my point valid, which it was, and still is.

Not splitting hairs, just pointing out what the scripture is really telling us. It's telling us not to WORRY about the future, not to not prepare for it.


Now see, this is just insulting. I never one time denied that God would take care of me and all His people in their time of need, in fact, that is exactly what I was getting at to begin, and end, with. God Bless.

I apologize, the last statement was meant as sarcasm, and was easily taken the wrong way. I do believe the Lord WILL take care of his children in their hour of need, but I also believe he gives us the means to take care of ourselves. I am a husband and a father and I am instructed to provide for my family or I am worse than an unbeliever. Part of that is preparing for their future, not just a week’s worth or a month’s worth, but for their FUTURE. I agree with you, the Christians that will survive the tribulation will be few and far between, and I am leaning more towards hard times before the tribulation, as the likely hood of an entire family surviving the trib are slim and none, but there will be those that do. They will survive because of God's hand and God's hand on their heart to prepare.


I will just answer all of your questions with one answer, to make it short and understandable.
It is God's place to decide. How does He make known to us when enough is enough, or too much is too much? I think we know the answer to that one. It is by convicting us of our sin.
Yes, I do agree that what may be sin to me, may not be sin to you. I will also say that I would rather spend $100 dollars on fishing tackle than flowers. :lol: I can spend 20 bucks on flowers and they last all summer. Fishing tackle has a way of being lost...:rofl: God Bless.

ross3421
Oct 28th 2008, 06:19 PM
Upon reading the replies I would like to comment and clarify.

1. I am speaking of a coming depression not the tribulation. I see a depression prior to an on set of world chaos and the tribulation period. Storing up supplies for the trib may still help but futile in the end.

2. Promoting the gospel is key. The reason to stock up is to provide life's necessities and promote the gospel to those whom you are providing. Those which will have food will have power and influence and the church should be front and center.

So the storing up in really not for one's self but for others to provide and be an influence. Better than us than the unbelievers......... This is biblical.

Mark

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 07:39 PM
Upon reading the replies I would like to comment and clarify.


1. I am speaking of a coming depression not the tribulation. I see a depression prior to an on set of world chaos and the tribulation period. Storing up supplies for the trib may still help but futile in the end.

Not necessarily. The Bible speaks of fleeing to the wilderness. Surely you do not mean they should forage for food, medicine and try to filter water if they could have taken it there and stockpiled it before hand? No, I think you meant it another way, perhaps stock piling it in suburbia-which really is stupid!
ON the other hand If you are speaking of a coming depression and NOT the end times scenario, then stock piling while you have plenty is good and godly. There will be many who have no money and will be hungry, how will we help them, if, while money is plenteous, we do not put stores in the storehouse as Joseph did with Pharoah; and saved Israel to boot!
NO I say storing is Godly! We dont need to be prophets to see difficult times ahead and thus to store up so we can help those in need is godly. I will debate you on this if you wish but I do not see yet how it can be foolish or ungodly. PLease help me understand you as I do not want to offend.



2. Promoting the gospel is key. The reason to stock up is to provide life's necessities and promote the gospel to those whom you are providing. Those which will have food will have power and influence and the church should be front and center.
AMEN Now ya talkin!!!!!!!!


So the storing up in really not for one's self but for others to provide and be an influence. Better us than the unbelievers......... This is biblical.
Mark
Amen again! I think the storing up for depression times arguement is made convincingly here.
The storing up for tribulation in suberbia is silly...but debate me if you wish

The storing up in the wilderness is less practicle but not foolhardy. Again, I'll discuss this if anyone wishes.
DF1
P.S. Mark, I want to make sure you dont think I was blasting at you. Not at all. The only part we seem to disagree on is the storing up for the trib. And you didnt identify what exactly you meant so my answer was meant in general not at you. :)

quiet dove
Oct 28th 2008, 07:45 PM
Never mind, I should probably just keepeth me big mouth shutest, beforest I sticketh my big foot ineth it

awestruckchild
Oct 28th 2008, 07:51 PM
I have found that it never hurts to begin with the words in red and work from that point to go backwards into the OT because the OT is really shadows and types of the One Who was to come and has now come.

Jesus said to not store up our treasure here and to not worry for our provision and to know that our Father knows what we need and that if we seek the Kingdom first everything else will be added to us.

Since the only thing God requires of us is to believe in the One He sent, we have to cling to Jesus' every word as sole and utter truth because if we confess with our mouth that we do in fact believe in the One He sent but yet we do not give every precedence to the words He spoke and the promises He made, or if we decide to listen to what the world system and worldly-wise christians say when it is in direct opposition to what He said, we should not expect that our prayers will be heard or that we will receive help or comfort or wisdom or the Spirit from the One we have decided not to listen to, believe and follow.

If your jumping off point is to attempt to "temper" His words with what the worlds wisdom is more than happy to supply, you will have absolutely no forward progress. And if you attempt to use the OT to explain that Jesus didn't really mean exactly what He said instead of using what Jesus said to help you understand the OT more, you will quickly become woefully lost.

You have to start with believing what Jesus said even though it fights with the wisdom of the day. It is the very first battle and if you haven't gotten past it to large extent, you are deceived if you think you will grow.

Dragonfighter1
Oct 28th 2008, 07:51 PM
Never mind, I should probably just keepeth me big mouth shutest, beforest I sticketh my big foot ineth it
I read your post before you changed it....:lol:

I dont think you should shut your mouth I think your point was well made and largely true...
Please consider reposting it.

Studyin'2Show
Oct 28th 2008, 08:48 PM
Alright, let's get back to discussing whether churches should prepare for a coming depression so they will be able to offer food to those in need and while doing so share the gospel. And move away from the whole pre-post trib thing. This really is more of a pre-pre or post trib question from the OPs pov as he clearly has clarified that he is not referring to the time of the tribulation. ;)

God Bless!

awestruckchild
Oct 28th 2008, 09:07 PM
I have found that it never hurts to begin with the words in red and work from that point to go backwards into the OT because the OT is really shadows and types of the One Who was to come and has now come.

Jesus said to not store up our treasure here and to not worry for our provision and to know that our Father knows what we need and that if we seek the Kingdom first everything else will be added to us.

Since the only thing God requires of us is to believe in the One He sent, we have to cling to Jesus' every word as sole and utter truth because if we confess with our mouth that we do in fact believe in the One He sent but yet we do not give every precedence to the words He spoke and the promises He made, or if we decide to listen to what the world system and worldly-wise christians say when it is in direct opposition to what He said, we should not expect that our prayers will be heard or that we will receive help or comfort or wisdom or the Spirit from the One we have decided not to listen to, believe and follow.

If your jumping off point is to attempt to "temper" His words with what the worlds wisdom is more than happy to supply, you will have absolutely no forward progress. And if you attempt to use the OT to explain that Jesus didn't really mean exactly what He said instead of using what Jesus said to help you understand the OT more, you will quickly become woefully lost.

You have to start with believing what Jesus said even though it fights with the wisdom of the day. It is the very first battle and if you haven't gotten past it to large extent, you are deceived if you think you will grow.


I thought of something to add to what I've said above.
If I personally received word from God to begin hoarding, you best believe I'd do it, but having not heard this from Him, I go by doing exactly what Jesus said and by what the Holy Spirit continues to show me.

His mother told them at Cana - do exactly what He tells you.
And God said - This is my Son....listen to Him.

jesuslover1968
Oct 28th 2008, 09:20 PM
The churches may have the greatest opportunity to witness in the near future.....if they are prepared. Those which will be prepared with the necessities of life, food and shelter, will have a great influence in times of despair. Should not the church be those of influence?

There well may be a "greater" depression on the horizon and the church needs to position itself to be a source of influence and if in these times they can provide the staples of life then of course many in the future would be set up to hear the gospel message. Many flocked to their local church in the 30's and Christ himself provided these things to those which followed him while providing them eternal food.

Mark


ok, back to the original OP, which btw, I misread...:blush:
I think the churches are already doing this, or most of them, yes? But then, you also have those who are so busy building their billiondy dollar churches that they have nothing left for the truly needy. I will say that yes, it would be a good time to evangelize...but then, any time is a good time. God Bless.

quiet dove
Oct 29th 2008, 01:48 AM
I read your post before you changed it....:lol:

I dont think you should shut your mouth I think your point was well made and largely true...
Please consider reposting it.

Thank you, I was afraid it didn't come across right. I didn't want it to sound like church bashing because I know there are a lot of good people out there and good churches

moonglow
Oct 29th 2008, 04:36 PM
I thought of something to add to what I've said above.
If I personally received word from God to begin hoarding, you best believe I'd do it, but having not heard this from Him, I go by doing exactly what Jesus said and by what the Holy Spirit continues to show me.

His mother told them at Cana - do exactly what He tells you.
And God said - This is my Son....listen to Him.

Who's mother told them this at Cana? :confused

What about us that don't have money to hoard food? I only have enough to buy what I need...no money for extra's at all...there are alot of people like me that simply don't have extra money to buy extra food right now...so what happens to us? This is why statements like this bother me.

People hoarded food and water before y2k...including my mom and her husband...I didn't as again I didn't have the means to do so plus I really wasn't worried about it. There is nothing in the news saying a word about a food shortage. Yes alot of people have lost their jobs...which will make them short on money for food...but nothing about their being a lack of food. In the Great Depression there had been an extreme drought that had killed many of the crops and the livestock died also due to the dust storms. Since then farmers have planted wind breaks to keep the soil from being blow away in the wind (they planted a line of trees that block the wind around their fields). So another dust storm cannot happen like in the Great Depression. Crops aren't failing due to extreme drought now like they were then anyway.

This is a map of the US showing drought areas:
http://drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

As you can see the central part of the US where most of the crops are grown aren't in a drought.

Compared to this:
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/dustbowl.htm
For eight years dust blew on the southern plains. It came in a yellowish-brown haze from the South and in rolling walls of black from the North. The simplest acts of life — breathing, eating a meal, taking a walk — were no longer simple. Children wore dust masks to and from school, women hung wet sheets over windows in a futile attempt to stop the dirt, farmers watched helplessly as their crops blew away

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NasaNews/ReleaseImages/20040318/01_theb1365.jpg

Very rarely now is something like this seen in the USA.

God bless

Dragonfighter1
Oct 29th 2008, 04:42 PM
Who's mother told them this at Cana? :confused

I think the reference is to the wedding of cana when the servants ran out of wine and Jesus' mother told them to do whatever he said....
John 2
1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

Studyin'2Show
Oct 29th 2008, 05:21 PM
Okay, the thread is going a bit off topic again. The OP is NOT talking about people like you and me storing a year's worth of food in the basement. The specific question is whether 'churches' should prepare so they will be able to help people who will not be able to afford food. And also specifically so the churches will be able to witness to people as they feed them. ;)

God Bless!

moonglow
Oct 29th 2008, 05:50 PM
Okay, the thread is going a bit off topic again. The OP is NOT talking about people like you and me storing a year's worth of food in the basement. The specific question is whether 'churches' should prepare so they will be able to help people who will not be able to afford food. And also specifically so the churches will be able to witness to people as they feed them. ;)

God Bless!

Yea I was going to come back and add that cause I had meant too but forgot....cause I got off topic...:rolleyes: :lol:

So this is what I was going to say....

YES! The churches should be stocking up on food to help all of those that have lost their jobs!

My son's school is collecting food right now for the local food bank...which reminds me I had one more thing to take that I didn't think of this morning...some Hambuger helper...we never eat that but my mom gave it to us thinking we did. So I am going to take that up there when I get my son from school.

I don't know if people remember or not but I think last year was really bad around the holidays as donations were way down...not enough turkeys donated for thanksgiving for soup kitchen...so be thinking about that all. And just not nearly enough regular food at all. So give to your churches, the food banks and soup kitchens cause alot of people are going to really be hurting this year...


Dragonfighter1

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonglow
Who's mother told them this at Cana?
I think the reference is to the wedding of cana when the servants ran out of wine and Jesus' mother told them to do whatever he said....
John 2
1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

Oh I see! Ok thanks for clearing that up....well Jesus says in Matthew 25

35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

So yes we are commanded to provide food for those in need...as for ourselves He also said this:

Matthew 6

Do Not Worry

25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

God bless

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:24 PM
So sorry, just kind of had that question, so that I will clear my doubts...
:B
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Okay, the thread is going a bit off topic again. The OP is NOT talking about people like you and me storing a year's worth of food in the basement. The specific question is whether 'churches' should prepare so they will be able to help people who will not be able to afford food. And also specifically so the churches will be able to witness to people as they feed them. ;)

God Bless!