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Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 12:11 PM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:

Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 12:20 PM
If we assume (dangerous) that prophecy's about these times apply to the middle East, then it may be safer in the America's.

I think 3.5 years food and supplies will be needed. The one world government of the AC will not permit purchases by known Christians (UNMARKED BY AC). Thus we will have to barter or store ahead of time. I can't see us being able to go into a grocery store with our debit cards (Cash will be outlawed I imagine) and buy anything as our bank accounts will likely have been sealed/de-authorized.

I certainly expect this to happen. As part of the FBI anti terrorism maneuvers these things are already approved by congress. Anyone marked as a terrorist can have his accounts seized to stop, slow down,or disable the terrorist from his efforts. It also makes him easier to catch when he can't fund mobility. This is one way I see the AC using domestic police forces to serve his needs. Christians will be identified as terrorists (Likely a hand full of radical ones ACTIVITIES will be the justification for all to be rounded up.)
So if our funds are seized... what then? Preparing is a legitimate issue. Maybe we dont need to do it today (Thats a different thread) my question is more to answer "WHEN we do need to be prepared, what will we need to have, do, be etc..."

DF

David Taylor
Oct 31st 2008, 02:11 PM
For those who believe there will be a specifically defined '7-yr' tribulation period; Joseph gives a good model on food-storage....he prepared for a 7-yr draught.

For those who believe the tribulation isn't limited to a '7-yr' period; I would think staying close to Psalms 27 and Psalms 91 would be a good start.

wombat
Oct 31st 2008, 02:32 PM
Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..
What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?
Hi, Dragonfighter1! I'm not a post-tribber, but I have thought about this subject many a time. There's a few things I might suggest here.

First, in the way of food items to be bought and stored, I suggest foods that don't need to be cooked (in case we have no electricity). Canned foods, of course, take space to keep, but they generally save for quite a long time. Dried foods are also a great choice. If you have a camp-type stove, you would be able to cook without electricity, but the canisters to fuel them might pose a storage problem. A fire pit would work for cooking if you thought your neighbor might not tattle on you for having food when you weren't supposed to, or if you were in the country/wilderness and didn't mind someone seeing the smoke rise from your location.

Water is going to be very important. I have a water filter called a Platypus that actually purifies water if I need to collect it from a river. This is a very handy item and is small enough to keep in a backpack for hiking. I highly recommend this product.

Aside from food, I think it would be a good thing to have some very warm winter-proof clothing, including the types of long underwear that skiers and mountain climbers wear under their outer clothing.

Second, it would seem to me to be wise for like-minded believers in the church to come up with some plan of supporting each other during the difficult times, in absolute secrecy if need be. We all have individual talents and skills that the Lord has given us. Perhaps there is a doctor among your congregation who would be willing, even though he/she may have lost their license and all access to medicines for being a Christian, to do what he/she can for a member who is sick or wounded. Perhaps there is an engineer or an architect who could locate a good site for an emergency storage site or a secret shelter as Christians are forced from their homes. There's so many possibilities for service!

This in turn leads to my third thought, regarding your question of what our ministry should be. I think our ministry should be the same as always--leading unsaved people to the Lord, as well as supporting our brothers and sisters in Christ. Prayer is going to be the key to all of this. Pray for wisdom, pray for safety, pray for the things that are needed, pray for opportunities to witness to the perishing, pray for knowledge, and pray for Jesus' quick return!

Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 02:46 PM
Hi, Dragonfighter1! I'm not a post-tribber, but I have thought about this subject many a time. There's a few things I might suggest here.

First, in the way of food items to be bought and stored, I suggest foods that don't need to be cooked (in case we have no electricity). Canned foods, of course, take space to keep, but they generally save for quite a long time. Dried foods are also a great choice. If you have a camp-type stove, you would be able to cook without electricity, but the canisters to fuel them might pose a storage problem. A fire pit would work for cooking if you thought your neighbor might not tattle on you for having food when you weren't supposed to, or if you were in the country/wilderness and didn't mind someone seeing the smoke rise from your location.

Water is going to be very important. I have a water filter called a Platypus that actually purifies water if I need to collect it from a river. This is a very handy item and is small enough to keep in a backpack for hiking. I highly recommend this product.

Aside from food, I think it would be a good thing to have some very warm winter-proof clothing, including the types of long underwear that skiers and mountain climbers wear under their outer clothing.

Second, it would seem to me to be wise for like-minded believers in the church to come up with some plan of supporting each other during the difficult times, in absolute secrecy if need be. We all have individual talents and skills that the Lord has given us. Perhaps there is a doctor among your congregation who would be willing, even though he/she may have lost their license and all access to medicines for being a Christian, to do what he/she can for a member who is sick or wounded. Perhaps there is an engineer or an architect who could locate a good site for an emergency storage site or a secret shelter as Christians are forced from their homes. There's so many possibilities for service!

This in turn leads to my third thought, regarding your question of what our ministry should be. I think our ministry should be the same as always--leading unsaved people to the Lord, as well as supporting our brothers and sisters in Christ. Prayer is going to be the key to all of this. Pray for wisdom, pray for safety, pray for the things that are needed, pray for opportunities to witness to the perishing, pray for knowledge, and pray for Jesus' quick return!
Hi Wombat,
wombat? Platypus? Aussie are you?:lol:
Thanks for the post. Good ideas. I'm gonna collate all them, when we have a few pages worth.
Should be useful to print and keep in case the pretrib hope is wrong. (Oh how I wish I could be pretrib with no worries! But thats another thread)

Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 02:49 PM
For those who believe there will be a specifically defined '7-yr' tribulation period; Joseph gives a good model on food-storage....he prepared for a 7-yr draught.

For those who believe the tribulation isn't limited to a '7-yr' period; I would think staying close to Psalms 27 and Psalms 91 would be a good start.
Thanks for posting, These are "waiting/trusting on God" verses.
My question is.. while we trust in God WHAT SHOULD WE DO.

Marc B
Oct 31st 2008, 02:51 PM
Hiding out during those times does tie in with the church in the wilderness. God's elect scattered around the globe fleeing the antichrist and beast power. If I were to prepare a permanent hideout I would likely choose a place in the mountains near a river where I could hunt with a bow and fish and eat local edible plants. Perhaps even grow a vegetable garden in a home made greenhouse. Learn to preserve food the way Indians did. Build a cabin out of local materials and some brought in in advance like solar power and run everything on 12 volts with a few deep cycle batteries. Of course to make things easier I would bring everything I needed like tools, cooking implements, a wood burning stove for heat and cooking indoors during the winter months. Extra clothing, enough supplies like soap, toothpaste, toilet paper, etc. All this of course would require planning ahead and bit by bit preparation during your free time to implement. Another option would be to scout out ghost towns for usable shelter and potable water and go from there. Others could sell everything off while they still could and use the money to buy a sailboat and live on that, bartering their skills for supplies at various places.

Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 02:55 PM
Hiding out during those times does tie in with the church in the wilderness. God's elect scattered around the globe fleeing the antichrist and beast power. If I were to prepare a permanent hideout I would likely choose a place in the mountains near a river where I could hunt with a bow and fish and eat local edible plants. Perhaps even grow a vegetable garden in a home made greenhouse. Learn to preserve food the way Indians did. Build a cabin out of local materials and some brought in in advance like solar power and run everything on 12 volts with a few deep cycle batteries. Of course to make things easier I would bring everything I needed like tools, cooking implements, a wood burning stove for heat and cooking indoors during the winter months. Extra clothing, enough supplies like soap, toothpaste, toilet paper, etc. All this of course would require planning ahead and bit by bit preparation during your free time to implement. Another option would be to scout out ghost towns for usable shelter and potable water and go from there. Others could sell everything off while they still could and use the money to buy a sailboat and live on that, bartering their skills for supplies at various places.
Excellent post! What wilderness zone would you suggest. I am thinking ...one where temperatures dont go too low for too long... South America perhaps. Southern US? WHat about people in other countries.. I do think that seeking and planning to go where temperatures arent brutal would be smart... you?

David Taylor
Oct 31st 2008, 03:52 PM
Thanks for posting, These are "waiting/trusting on God" verses.
My question is.. while we trust in God WHAT SHOULD WE DO.

Continue to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. "

Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 03:56 PM
Continue to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. "
No no no, Sorry David you are missing the point of the OP.
We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognise that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations.
Thanks
DF1

Truthinlove
Oct 31st 2008, 05:05 PM
Oooh, can I play along in this thread even though I am prewrath and not posttrib? I'm not interested in debating views, but since I believe we will endure the great tribulation by the antichrist if it happens in my lifetime, then I want to be prepared, physically, mentally and of course spiritually. But, lately it has been on my heart to really contemplate "surviving". I believe it is 2 fold. God WILL provide to His faithful, but I also believe in personal responibility and I want to think about and discuss what we will have to do practically to survive.

In regards to the timing of the rapture, Paul says TWICE "those who are alive AND REMAIN"! Remain can also be translated "survive"! Those will live up to the rapture will have to survive and they won't survive by accident. They will have to try to survive, while also living in God's will.

I can't read this thread yet (have to go to sleep), but am looking forward to hearing your thoughts OP and the thoughts of others on this issue!

Dragonfighter1
Oct 31st 2008, 05:09 PM
Oooh, can I play along in this thread even though I am prewrath and not posttrib? I'm not interested in debating views, but since I believe we will endure the great tribulation by the antichrist if it happens in my lifetime, then I want to be prepared, physically, mentally and of course spiritually. But, lately it has been on my heart to really contemplate "surviving". I believe it is 2 fold. God WILL provide to His faithful, but I also believe in personal responibility and I want to think about and discuss what we will have to do practically to survive.

In regards to the timing of the rapture, Paul says TWICE "those who are alive AND REMAIN"! Remain can also be translated "survive"! Those will live up to the rapture will have to survive and they won't survive by accident. They will have to try to survive, while also living in God's will.

I can't read this thread yet (have to go to sleep), but am looking forward to hearing your thoughts OP and the thoughts of others on this issue!
With an avatar like that you are welcome:blush: and with a flaming sword like that I dont think I would say no anyway lol...
P.S. I dont care what your pre-post position is... just dont debate it. Instead post ideas and thoughts on how to manage it, plan for it, and get through it...if at all possible...

DF1

Truthinlove
Oct 31st 2008, 05:17 PM
With an avatar like that you are welcome:blush: and with a flaming sword like that I dont think I would say no anyway lol...

:lol: That's awesome, thanks! I love tough chicks, I need to be like her!


P.S. I dont care what your pre-post position is... just dont debate it. Instead post ideas and thoughts on how to manage it, plan for it, and get through it...if at all possible...

You got it! :)

jesuslover1968
Oct 31st 2008, 05:32 PM
Ok. I am pretrib. But as long as I don't debate it, I can play along, too, right? :lol:
I would say find caves. Camping equipment. Fishing gear, etc.
as far as where you would go, supposing you know BEFORE the persecution, you could actually get to S. America. If it's AFTER the persecution begins, going across county and state lines will probably be a problem, let alone to other countries...seriously. Once it begins, people would be pretty much stuck in the area they are in. That's why I say find some caves, get things set up now, then when it begins, you can melt away with little attention since all the supplies you need will already be in said cave. ( Try to pick caves without bears or wild animals in them, this could be bad...)

moonglow
Oct 31st 2008, 05:38 PM
You guys really need to read The Stand by Stephen King. Its a fictional books of course...about a government disease experiment going bad and then getting out of the testing area...wipes out nearly everyone except those with a natural immunity to it. Even kills alot of the animals. They call it 'Captain Trips' in the book. Its kind of like a super flu bug. Everything comes to a stand still...so many have died many roads are blocked due to the drivers drying while trying to flee....(for you pre-tribbers you can pretend they were all raptured)...for the post tribbers it gives you and idea of the plagues listed in Matthew 24 and Revelation. Things are burning too out of control in places due to lightening strikes and no one to monitor things and one crazy guy setting things on fire and blowing things up because no one is around to stop him! There are no lights, gas, food in the stores going bad and so forth.

On top of all of this there is a spiritual side to the story...an evil bad guy and an old woman who is good and everyone starts dreaming of one or both and are drawn to either the old lady...the good...or to the bad..

They made a movie of this years ago but it just didn't compare to the book...for some reason many of Stephen Kings movies come out awful...they just can't capture things right from his books.

Anyway I think..even though its fiction...it will give you all a better idea of just how very bad things would be in trying to survive...and this is minus the earthquakes, falling meteors , poisoned water, etc....

I don't look to survive or even try too. I am disabled, I have no money to go out and buy a bunch of survival stuff...I personally think it will be too dangerous to try to travel...look at how the highways clog up during an evacuation from a hurricane! Going to a church will be the worse place to go too by the way. Oh and also...as far as going into the wilderness..with 1/4 of the grass and trees burning and wild animals attacking people...I don't think its such a good idea. I personally see no place as safe. For me (and speaking only for myself) I would probably get into more trouble and danger by even trying to do any of this survival stuff!

God bless

David Taylor
Oct 31st 2008, 09:24 PM
No no no, Sorry David you are missing the point of the OP.
We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognise that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations.
Thanks
DF1

So are you talking about stocking up food, purifying water, that type of stuff is your focus?

Marc B
Oct 31st 2008, 09:46 PM
Excellent post! What wilderness zone would you suggest. I am thinking ...one where temperatures dont go too low for too long... South America perhaps. Southern US? WHat about people in other countries.. I do think that seeking and planning to go where temperatures arent brutal would be smart... you?

Everyone's situation is different. If it was up to me I would seek a warmer climate myself if I could. Anywhere west of the rockies in NA has a generally milder climate and longer growing season than the east. I would avoid geologically active areas for obvious reasons. Another option is motorhomes and campers. Barter for food, fuel whatever. Trade work you are skilled in for supplies. For example, 40 hours work for a weeks equivalent in salary's worth in supplies. No exchange of currency requiring the mark of the beast. Another option is "earn your keep". Work for a roof over your head and food and other basic needs as a farm hand on a ranch or something. You are only limited by your imagination. If it is God's will that you do survive to the end then He will surely give you the means to stay alive, if you are meant for martyrdom then no amount of preparation will help you. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to prepare for a radical lifestyle change though. Pray for guidance in this matter and see where he leads you like it says in the Bible. Luke 21:36 Watch you therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Literalist-Luke
Oct 31st 2008, 09:53 PM
OK, just watch the movie, Tremors, move to Perfection, NV, and set yourself up the same way that Burt and Heather Gummer did in the movie. You'll be all set. :D

(Speaking of Tremors, that sounds like a good Halloween night movie, now where did I put that DVD........)

Saved7
Nov 1st 2008, 01:53 AM
Second, it would seem to me to be wise for like-minded believers in the church to come up with some plan of supporting each other during the difficult times, in absolute secrecy if need be.
!


And on that note, I have often thought how we would communicate that we are near a place of safety or that each of us is a "safe" person.
Like a sign or a word or phrase that we would use.
Like they did in the old days when there was great persecution, they used the fish symbol to communicate to one another that they were brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Not to mention the need for purchasing power among those who are not totally ac faithful but are doomed to hell by the mark. The only thing that is trade worthy is precious metals and gems. So hold onto your stuff folks.

Also, growing our own food sources off our property in the wild is a good idea (Things that grow pretty easily on their own). Even if that means just tossing some seeds while out hiking somewhere that you know the area fairly well and not many people go there.

tango
Nov 1st 2008, 01:32 PM
THis is something I thought about at great length before my decision to come back to God.

A secular-scale meltdown could be very difficult to survive. Keeping a stockpile of the three G's (grain, gold, guns) could work in principle but you still have the problem that if the hungry masses find you have stockpiles then sooner or later they will take it from you. The only question is whether you share it with them willingly or man the gunposts until you run out of ammunition and get overrun.

Having a bolt-hole to hide in, (the bug-out strategy) is also very high risk. If you run to your bolthole and find someone has already occupied it you have a serious problem. It's widely recognised that taking a defensive position requires three times the manpower (or more) than is required to defend such a position. So the only way you'll get into your bolthole is to engage the occupiers in a firefight, and hope there are enough of you to flush them all out.

Assuming the bolt-hole you find isn't already occupied, growing things in the wild comes with its own dangers. When the masses are hungry they are likely to be out looking for something to eat, and if they find a field of wheat or a couple of farm animals they are unlikely to care about ownership before eating their fill and taking away whatever they can. So all your hard work is lost and someone else benefits.

Water purification is all well and good but look at how long these man-made devices will last, and think how much clean water you will need over the course of however long you expect to be away. To last for many years you'll need more purification systems than you can carry.

If you're trying to hide from the powers-that-be you need to be able to move without leaving any trace, and also hide the heat signature of your body while you are asleep. Thermal imaging cameras can pick out a human running through a dark place, from a helicopter. Living in a cave could prevent this but sooner or later you'd need a fire. A fire needs firewood, and unless your cave was very deep your fires would emit enough light for people seeking you out to realise that there was somebody living in the cave.

So from a perspective of surviving a secular meltdown the only way I can see it would work is to keep some stockpiles of food well hidden (and several of them, in case you are captured and tortured to reveal them), and learn how to live off the land. I reckon that means learning to eat things that the masses don't regard as food, so you won't have competition for it.


Then looking at it all from a Biblical perspective, if the sky is stopped so it doesn't rain and there are plagues of locusts there isn't going to be a whole lot to eat anyway. We also run the risk of capture and execution every time we move about, whereas under a secular scenario if we look as hungry as everyone else we're just another person struggling to survive.

Surviving seven years of God's wrath without any form of reliance on God is, I believe, an exercise in futility. God provided a sacrificial ram for Abraham, manna for the Israelites as they fled Pharaoh, and provided for Elijah through the widow whose flour and oil never ran out.

I suspect that relying on God's providence for our daily needs is going to be the only option we have, unless you can find somewhere to store seven years worth of food that won't perish and water than won't spoil, and defend it against anyone else who might like to relieve you of it.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 1st 2008, 01:54 PM
THis is something I thought about at great length before my decision to come back to God.

[QUOTE]A secular-scale meltdown could be very difficult to survive. Keeping a stockpile of the three G's (grain, gold, guns) could work in principle but you still have the problem that if the hungry masses find you have stockpiles then sooner or later they will take it from you. The only question is whether you share it with them willingly or man the gunposts until you run out of ammunition and get overrun.
OK, Great question... but there will be no hungry masses, only hungry christians....and probably not too many of them, the masses will have the mark and be happy.

Having a bolt-hole to hide in, (the bug-out strategy) is also very high risk. If you run to your bolthole and find someone has already occupied it you have a serious problem. It's widely recognised that taking a defensive position requires three times the manpower (or more) than is required to defend such a position. So the only way you'll get into your bolthole is to engage the occupiers in a firefight, and hope there are enough of you to flush them all out.

Assuming the bolt-hole you find isn't already occupied, growing things in the wild comes with its own dangers. When the masses are hungry they are likely to be out looking for something to eat, and if they find a field of wheat or a couple of farm animals they are unlikely to care about ownership before eating their fill and taking away whatever they can. So all your hard work is lost and someone else benefits.
Excellent point... But dried food may be an answer, also, sealed grain sacks(ziplock) and etc.. Remember again their is not likely to be any hungry masses as they who take the mark are fed through the AC system


Water purification is all well and good but look at how long these man-made devices will last, and think how much clean water you will need over the course of however long you expect to be away. To last for many years you'll need more purification systems than you can carry.

If you're trying to hide from the powers-that-be you need to be able to move without leaving any trace, and also hide the heat signature of your body while you are asleep. Thermal imaging cameras can pick out a human running through a dark place, from a helicopter. Living in a cave could prevent this but sooner or later you'd need a fire. A fire needs firewood, and unless your cave was very deep your fires would emit enough light for people seeking you out to realise that there was somebody living in the cave.
Superb thinking! Living in proximity to society isnt going to work very easily. I think that the AC will concentrate on managing civilization, not hunting in the wilderness for natives and tribesmen, so if we are in the same wilds and wilderness as natives we may be a little safer,.


So from a perspective of surviving a secular meltdown the only way I can see it would work is to keep some stockpiles of food well hidden (and several of them, in case you are captured and tortured to reveal them), and learn how to live off the land. I reckon that means learning to eat things that the masses don't regard as food, so you won't have competition for it.
HMMMM provocative thoughts there,... know any good books on the subject?


Then looking at it all from a Biblical perspective, if the sky is stopped so it doesn't rain and there are plagues of locusts there isn't going to be a whole lot to eat anyway. We also run the risk of capture and execution every time we move about, whereas under a secular scenario if we look as hungry as everyone else we're just another person struggling to survive.

Surviving seven years of God's wrath without any form of reliance on God is, I believe, an exercise in futility. God provided a sacrificial ram for Abraham, manna for the Israelites as they fled Pharaoh, and provided for Elijah through the widow whose flour and oil never ran out.


I think the reign of the AC is 7 years and god wrath onlt the part at the end... ergo we only need to survive a max of about 3.5 years.


I suspect that relying on God's providence for our daily needs is going to be the only option we have, unless you can find somewhere to store seven years worth of food that won't perish and water than won't spoil, and defend it against anyone else who might like to relieve you of it.


Uh oh... sounds like you just talked yourself out of trying.. Which would take us off the topic so lets not discuss that ok. Read my responses again and think about this... if we only have to survive about 3.5 years and if the AC is concentrating on control of the system, anyone OFF the reservation isnt worth wasting time and resources on. Drop of the radar and he isnt going to hunt for you. BUT...Mess with his system by stealing, breaking into grocery stores, bartering in the market place and you are going to find he is like a lion... and he will make examples of anyone he catches then!

treasureman
Nov 1st 2008, 07:24 PM
If you know the truth of the end times by having the knowledge of what has been written in the Bible. God will provide for us. It would be most practical to read, study and know the Bible most specifically what Jesus has said Himself and he will take care of His children.

tango
Nov 1st 2008, 10:28 PM
OK, Great question... but there will be no hungry masses, only hungry christians....and probably not too many of them, the masses will have the mark and be happy.


I disagree with your premise. I don't honestly think the minions of the antichrist will be happy at all.



Excellent point... But dried food may be an answer, also, sealed grain sacks(ziplock) and etc.. Remember again their is not likely to be any hungry masses as they who take the mark are fed through the AC system


I come back to this assumption that the beast will keep its minions happy. When the churches will be sharing what they have with others, why would the beast do anything other than keep its minions hungry and telling them that there's lots of food in the churches, and that the selfish Christians are hoarding it?

We can see there isn't going to be a lot of food available for anyone:
Rev 6:5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come and see." So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine."

Dried food needs clean water to reconstitute it, which isn't much help unless you can find clean water. Dried food also doesn't help you if someone else gets to your bolt hole before you do.



Superb thinking! Living in proximity to society isnt going to work very easily. I think that the AC will concentrate on managing civilization, not hunting in the wilderness for natives and tribesmen, so if we are in the same wilds and wilderness as natives we may be a little safer,.


I wouldn't expect the antichrist to be so charitable. Also reading Revelation it talks of huge armies sweeping across entire areas:

Rev 9:15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.
Rev 9:16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Whether the 200m horsemen will kill Christians, non-Christians, or anyone in their path, isn't made clear.



I think the reign of the AC is 7 years and god wrath onlt the part at the end... ergo we only need to survive a max of about 3.5 years.

How many people are you going to try and feed? An adult wants to be drinking 1-2 litres of water per day, more in hot climates. So for 3.5 years you're talking of stockpiling 1-2000 litres of water, per adult. Where are you going to store that much water, before you even think of food, clothing, etc.

Also, were you planning on hoarding and not letting on that you were prepared, or would you do as Jesus would have done and shared? If you plan on sharing, figure that you'll get through your supplies many many times faster, unless God pulls a miracle much like he did for Elijah.



Uh oh... sounds like you just talked yourself out of trying.. Which would take us off the topic so lets not discuss that ok. Read my responses again and think about this... if we only have to survive about 3.5 years and if the AC is concentrating on control of the system, anyone OFF the reservation isnt worth wasting time and resources on. Drop of the radar and he isnt going to hunt for you. BUT...Mess with his system by stealing, breaking into grocery stores, bartering in the market place and you are going to find he is like a lion... and he will make examples of anyone he catches then!

I wouldn't assume anything of the sort

Rev 13:15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Rev 13:16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
Rev 13:17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Verse 15 is the kicker... "cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed". Not "give them a chance to run and hide", no get-out clauses for people who managed to bug out in time and no provision for people to run to the hills and sit it out.

I'm quite prepared to drop out of the thread if my "trust God" approach isn't what you wanted, but I think looking at the practicalities of preparing for a full-scale secular meltdown are so mind boggling when you think beyond the first few days or weeks that the thought of a Biblical scale meltdown are so much more severe they leave us with something we simply can't do on our own.

undercoverdave
Nov 2nd 2008, 12:07 AM
I agree... while there is biblical precedent for stockpiling (Joseph), there is nowhere where God commands us to do the same for this situation. Instead he says, "watch and pray." I think the model we should look at instead is the model of the wilderness in which God provides mana and water. I don't think you can ever go wrong trusting God, especially in a time where he is bringing judgment upon the worldly system.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 2nd 2008, 12:23 AM
I agree... while there is biblical precedent for stockpiling (Joseph), there is nowhere where God commands us to do the same for this situation. Instead he says, "watch and pray." I think the model we should look at instead is the model of the wilderness in which God provides mana and water. I don't think you can ever go wrong trusting God, especially in a time where he is bringing judgment upon the worldly system.How is that different from people who refuse to go to a doctor because they're "trusting God" to heal the patient?

Richard H
Nov 2nd 2008, 12:46 AM
Perhaps – with the leading of the Spirit - one is to be the source for God’s provision toward others.
Certainly the multitude started out with a few fishes and loaves.

I’m reminded of the punch-line to that old joke: “I sent you two boats and a helicopter!”
<of course, if you haven’t heard the joke – that won’t make much sense. J >

undercoverdave
Nov 2nd 2008, 01:23 AM
How is that different from people who refuse to go to a doctor because they're "trusting God" to heal the patient?

That's a different issue to address, that I don't really want to touch right now, but I'd say it's different because of timing. At the end of age we will see miracles much more widespread, and provision is one I think there is good support for.

Also, at that point, we will probably have no choice but to trust God for healing, as we cannot use money to go see the doctor, and at some point probably the hospitals will be jammed with people, you have a better chance of gathering the elders.

I just think that if gathering resources was important for the saints prior to these events, Jesus or the prophets would have warned us in such a way to prepare us.

Lastly, death, especially by starvation, is really not the thing we need to be worried about -- we are promised that saints will be martyred in large numbers, and that we will receive a reward for it...

Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.

Seems like Jesus prescribes prayer for strength, not stockpiling.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 2nd 2008, 01:48 AM
:OFFT:
OK we are completely off topic.

Please read the opening post!:yes:

This thread is not for anything but that. :thumbsdn:

Please refrain:no: from any other issues or even debating the value of preparing.

Saved7
Nov 2nd 2008, 02:02 AM
I do agree that we may find ourselves in a position where preparedness is useless to us. In that case, I say research how to...build...whatever you might need to live off the land when you have nothing to start with. How to make rope and how to tell what wild plants are safe and nutritious and so forth.

undercoverdave
Nov 2nd 2008, 03:15 AM
IMO it's not against the OP, but rather the method of preparing is through prayer and communion with Jesus, a spiritual preparation and readiness, rather than a physical one. I think it's still a relevant question, but my answer is quite different. But if that is outside of the bounds desired, I'll bow out.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 2nd 2008, 04:01 AM
:OFFT:
OK we are completely off topic.

Please read the opening post!:yes:

This thread is not for anything but that. :thumbsdn:

Please refrain:no: from any other issues or even debating the value of preparing.Yes sir. http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/yes_sir.gif

Going http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/thtopic.gif

Richard H
Nov 2nd 2008, 04:16 AM
You know those 5 gal drinking water containers with the little spiggot?
When yer done with 'em...
Wash 'em out with a very dilute solution of water and a 1/2 teaspoon bleach let 'em dry inside and close 'em up.
Store in twist tie trashbags (to keep the dust and dirt out) for when you need to carry water.

'Handy for carrying good water.
'Even lake or pool water before filtering/boiling.

A drop or two of bleach might be good for especially nasty water if you are desperate.

Keep some old dry newspapers - even old phonebooks - good for starting fires.

Truthinlove
Nov 2nd 2008, 04:47 AM
I think 3.5 years food and supplies will be needed.

I don't know that we could really store up that much food. I mean, we won't be living in our houses. I suppose if you have a remote location ahead of time you could make trips out there to stock it, but if you are on the run in the wilderness, there is no way you could bring along that much food.

I have thought that MRE'S would be a good choice to bring!

Roelof
Nov 2nd 2008, 06:42 AM
I believe in a Rapture during the 1st half of the Tribulation, so I will prepare not for the whole Tribulation :D My view point is that the Tribulation will not be exactly 7 years long.

Some stage during the Tribulation the tagging / marking and worshipping of the beast / system will start. In developed countries it will be some form of electronic device. In developing countries it might be RFID ink and coupled with some form of slavery. The point is it that the Tribulation will be world-wide, with no "safe" countries. Chrustians wiil have to avoid the marking / tagging, I am sure the Holy Spirit will guide us when it actually starts.

During the Tribulation Christians will have to support each other as never before in history, your eternal destiny will depend on it !!!

tango
Nov 2nd 2008, 02:39 PM
You know those 5 gal drinking water containers with the little spiggot?
When yer done with 'em...
Wash 'em out with a very dilute solution of water and a 1/2 teaspoon bleach let 'em dry inside and close 'em up.
Store in twist tie trashbags (to keep the dust and dirt out) for when you need to carry water.


That's all well and good, but if you need to store enough water to survive 3.5 years then you're talking about, very roughly, 1-2 tons of water per person. Then you need more water if you want to use dried foods. Unless you've got somewhere you can store 50-100 of your 5-gallon containers per person you're going to be out of luck.

moonglow
Nov 2nd 2008, 04:17 PM
That's all well and good, but if you need to store enough water to survive 3.5 years then you're talking about, very roughly, 1-2 tons of water per person. Then you need more water if you want to use dried foods. Unless you've got somewhere you can store 50-100 of your 5-gallon containers per person you're going to be out of luck.

Plus the water goes stale and is horrible! I used to date a nut case of a guy that thought he was some kind of a militant...got those militant magazines too and he had us store water in gallon jugs. When I finally talked him out of doing that as there were gallon jugs everywhere and we tried to use the water it was extremely nasty...:( I was afraid it would make us sick so we dumped it. Even unopened containers of water, such as bottled water..the water goes bad after awhile

A person couldn't carry everything they needed on foot for sure.

God bless

Richard H
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:09 PM
That's all well and good, but if you need to store enough water to survive 3.5 years then you're talking about, very roughly, 1-2 tons of water per person. Then you need more water if you want to use dried foods. Unless you've got somewhere you can store 50-100 of your 5-gallon containers per person you're going to be out of luck.Certainly one cannot store enough water. However, if you find a source of water - one can reuse containers to bring it back and then purify it through filtering and boiling.

I dunno about the containers you've seen, but the ones I've seen have pop out spigots and carrying handles.

It would seem dumb to toss those all of them out with the recycle and then be wishing you had them to carry water. Thatz all. :)

Dragonfighter1
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:16 PM
Water Storage is not the primary method.
It would be smarter to have a filter-ation device.
Also water stored in bottles doesn't go bad, water in plastic does because of leeching.. the polywhateverols dissolve into the h2o and it goes yucky.

Dried food, especially meats packed in plastic, canned goods, etc.. would be good. There are several survival books out that explain how to survive off the land.

A couple of good knives would be necessary, along with a sharpening stone.

I'd drive down to south America before the AC took over completely.

Doing some more research.. back in a bit..

Back2Front
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:20 PM
What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?



Me and my Family will just be heading to Israel. Passage will be safe and easy at that time.

We will be able to live and work gainfully rebuilding the Temple.

Also, It will be the one of the only places on earth where it will be acceptable not to take the mark, save a few of the worlds suburbs.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:23 PM
Me and my Family will just be heading to Israel. Passage will be safe and easy at that time.

We will be able to live and work gainfully rebuilding the Temple.

Also, It will be the one of the only places on earth where it will be acceptable not to take the mark, save a few of the worlds suburbs.
I am concerned that Revelation seems to indicate that Israel will be one of the worst places to hide from the AC.

I will also be watching the TV to watch the two prophets come back to life as prophesied in Revelation.Good Luck.

Of course I shall be praying for Israel all the more at that time.

Richard H
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:28 PM
Water Storage is not the primary method.
It would be smarter to have a filter-ation device....I have a portable gravity type filter and extra filter cartridges. Anyone wanting the brandname or a link can PM me.


A couple of good knives would be necessary, along with a sharpening stone. :yes: and a flint for fires.

JesusReignsForever
Nov 2nd 2008, 09:59 PM
this is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard of! I'm sorry but I just had to say that. Do you guys really think God wouldn't provide for his children, if we were going to go through those horrible times?? I mean READ YOUR BIBLES it clearly explains that GOD will provide ALL, not some, not 10%,not half but ALL of our needs.

tango
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:45 PM
Certainly one cannot store enough water. However, if you find a source of water - one can reuse containers to bring it back and then purify it through filtering and boiling.

I dunno about the containers you've seen, but the ones I've seen have pop out spigots and carrying handles.

It would seem dumb to toss those all of them out with the recycle and then be wishing you had them to carry water. Thatz all. :)

When the two witnesses block the sky so it doesn't rain, and the falling star turns the water bitter, or the water turns to blood, finding any form of water at all will be a challenge, let alone worrying about how you'll carry any surplus.

Richard H
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:56 PM
When the two witnesses block the sky so it doesn't rain, and the falling star turns the water bitter, or the water turns to blood, finding any form of water at all will be a challenge, let alone worrying about how you'll carry any surplus.I'm not sure when the witnesses show up and only a third of the water is turned bitter (else all would die in a matter of days), but I really only intend to survive the first half.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 2nd 2008, 11:13 PM
I'm not sure when the witnesses show up and only a third of the water is turned bitter (else all would die in a matter of days), but I really only intend to survive the first half.
Good points tango and Richard...

Now back to the ideas...:)

Saved7
Nov 3rd 2008, 12:11 AM
this is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard of! I'm sorry but I just had to say that. Do you guys really think God wouldn't provide for his children, if we were going to go through those horrible times?? I mean READ YOUR BIBLES it clearly explains that GOD will provide ALL, not some, not 10%,not half but ALL of our needs.

Don't know that you read the OP, but he specifically stated that he wanted ONLY those who care to discuss such preperations....not those who wish to argue or belittle those who concern themselves with such things.

:OFFT:

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 12:32 AM
this is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard of! I'm sorry but I just had to say that. Do you guys really think God wouldn't provide for his children, if we were going to go through those horrible times?? I mean READ YOUR BIBLES it clearly explains that GOD will provide ALL, not some, not 10%,not half but ALL of our needs.How do you know the discussions going on in this thread are not the means by which God will provide?

Dragonfighter1
Nov 3rd 2008, 12:54 AM
How do you know the discussions going on in this thread are not the means by which God will provide?
Good point... 10 bonus points to Lit Luke...

Now then... New visitors PLEASE READ O.P.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:31 AM
Good point... 10 bonus points to Lit Luke...How 'bout a little "rep" on the side? :lol:

Dragonfighter1
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:46 AM
How 'bout a little "rep" on the side? :lol:
sez I gotta spread some around... I must be giving you too much!

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:55 AM
sez I gotta spread some around... I must be giving you too much!No problem, I was just playin' :lol:

OK, enough! http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/thtopic.gif

Marc B
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:56 AM
OK, just watch the movie, Tremors, move to Perfection, NV, and set yourself up the same way that Burt and Heather Gummer did in the movie. You'll be all set. :D

(Speaking of Tremors, that sounds like a good Halloween night movie, now where did I put that DVD........)


Kewl, 'cept one problem. I tried google maps and there's no perfection in Nevada. There is one in NC. :)

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:06 AM
Kewl, 'cept one problem. I tried google maps and there's no perfection in Nevada. There is one in NC. :)Yeah, that's 'cuz the giant worms destroyed it. We'll have to rebuild. I'll bring the tools, you get the lumber. :D

Marc B
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:14 AM
You got it.
:hmm: where to find lumber in the desert......;)

Richard H
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:18 AM
Kewl, 'cept one problem. I tried google maps and there's no perfection in Nevada. There is one in NC. :)I used to live NC and I'm of the opinion that there's no perfection in NC. :rolleyes:

OK, now I'm forced to provide on topic information...;)

Um... :hmm:
Don't eat bright colored insects, as they might be toxic. :no:
Also don't eat insects that smell bad. :no:

Marc B
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:21 AM
I think some lessons could be learned from the Jews who escaped persecution from the Nazis. Of course they had other nations to run to. We won't have that luxury unfortunately.
Hey Richard, didn't John the Baptist eat locusts? As unappetizing as that sounds we may end up eating bugs to stay alive at some point.

Richard H
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:35 AM
I think some lessons could be learned from the Jews who escaped persecution from the Nazis. Of course they had other nations to run to. We won't have that luxury unfortunately. nowhere to run. L

Hey Richard, didn't John the Baptist eat locusts? As unappetizing as that sounds we may end up eating bugs to stay alive at some point.Yup.
Pick off the wings and roast 'em a bit. Yum!!! :rolleyes:
'A good source of protein!

Also your brain needs oil to function properly.
Coconut oil is real good for that and does not go bad - even without refrigeration.
Unfortunately, I hate coconut. :mad:

Marc B
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:39 AM
Unfortunately coconuts don't grow very well in Canada either.
I guess I'll have to settle for snow and seal blubber, eh? :lol:

Saved7
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:42 AM
Unfortunately coconuts don't grow very well in Canada either.
I guess I'll have to settle for snow and seal blubber, eh? :lol:


Well if nothin else, smearin a little of that melted down blubber on ya will help to keep you warm and dry.:D

White Spider
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:45 AM
What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

Just going to throw out my 2 cents :2cents:

I am not sure how much has been said exactly.

What should be bought/stored?

Nothing that can't be put in a backpack and easily carried. (Knives, Backpacking clothing, rope, water containers, flint, binoculars, etc.)

Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?

Somewhere virgin, in that I mean untouched by mankind. Most likely mountainous regions in the Americas. Africa/Australia has lots of wilderness. (Somewhere survivable, but as extreme as you can handle. The more extreme the more difficult for anyone else.)

What our ministry should be?

Trust in the Lord! - Ask for the strength to deal with the times. - Fear not!


~ Things you can do now.

- Buy a couple survival books. (Practice and learn.)
- Pray

Richard H
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:46 AM
Unfortunately coconuts don't grow very well in Canada either.
I guess I'll have to settle for snow and seal blubber, eh? :lol:LOL
(but seriously -don't eat snow. it will lower your core temp.)
Seal blubber sounds delicious! Eh? :rolleyes:

You can order coconut oil via www or even buy it in a healthfood store.
My brother has a 2 gal container and it only takes a teaspoon or so per day.
Yuckio!

White Spider
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:51 AM
(but seriously -don't eat snow. it will lower your core temp.)

You may want to eat snow if you are working hard though, for the reason it will lower your core temperature and help keep you from sweating, if the sweat freezes on you you could end up with frost bite or hypothermia. Though you want to let the snow melt to water, it will still be plenty cold, but raw snow can burn your tongue.

Richard H
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:04 AM
Good thinking about not letting sweat freeze.
Not much snow around here.
If one is going to get liquid from a cactus (like a prickly pear cactus), itís a good idea to have some diagonal wire cutters for the needles.

JesusMySavior
Nov 4th 2008, 06:16 AM
I still say that the Christians should form an alliance and pool together their resources and live underground somewhere.

I also heard of a place called "Petra" in Israel that's very secretive but they've been sending supplies there for over 30 years to prepare for the tribulation of the jews and anyone is welcome I guess.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 4th 2008, 10:23 AM
I also heard of a place called "Petra" in Israel that's very secretive but they've been sending supplies there for over 30 years to prepare for the tribulation of the jews and anyone is welcome I guess.Petra is no secret. And who is "they"? Jews are completely unprepared, because a large part of the prophecies of these events are in the New Testament, which the Jews reject as Scripture.

If the Jews really believed a "Tribulation" was coming, why would they build a third temple that the Bible says will be in place during that very Tribulation? Wouldn't that be knowingly playing into their own destruction?

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 11:06 AM
Petra is no secret. And who is "they"? Jews are completely unprepared, because a large part of the prophecies of these events are in the New Testament, which the Jews reject as Scripture.

If the Jews really believed a "Tribulation" was coming, why would they build a third temple that the Bible says will be in place during that very Tribulation? Wouldn't that be knowingly playing into their own destruction?
LL. Goodmornin'
I think it possible that not all "jews" are ZIONists, perhaps some jews are Christian and some jews just fear a coming war and have put stuff aside as insurance.. It's possible and for their sake I hope so.
SO should we posse up? I'm not sure about that. After all that makes us a target, but by the same token untill the antichrist activates the "anti" christian plan we can all benefit from our survival discussions!

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 06:45 PM
Grabbed form another thread and dumped here...

There is absolutely a lot you can do to prepare. Making fun of hoarding or escaping may be easy to set up for the accusation of sillyness, but be serious. DO you think that all the AC's efforts will come to pass in one hour! It will take at least a few weeks maybe months,perhaps a year or more. What should we do, just throw up our hands and walk to the nearest police station?

When we see laws being passed that require the mark to purchase food, we will do what everyone does before a snow storm.
When we see the police start rounding up the "radical" christians we will do what we can to be unnoticed, and even try to move to a different country if the AC doesnt yet have it fully under his control.

Please! To say that any preparation is foolish is close to insulting... what about prayer, what about fellowship and discussion? these boards are a place where we prepare (even if some use it "to prepare to NOT prepare")

Look, not everyone can run, not everyone has the funds to store or a vacation home in the mountains (not that that is necessarily safe) but those that can should prepare as much as lossible. Some of us will try to alleviate the difficulties of our brothers and sisters where we can. Many of us will die for our efforts.

Just because the AC is given authority over us (power) it doesn't mean he has total, all inclusive, global, micromanaging ability. There will be countries that oppose him until they are crushed by him, there will be cities that oppose him until they are crushed by him, while all that is going on the ones who have stored food will be told by their pastor that they should share with those who refused to prepare lest they starve to death. Yes the ac will kill many/most/all of us, but do we have to suffer more than necessary because some chose to do no preparation at all?

While the AC rolls out his evil across the globe, countrys, states, counties, cities and etc.. will be taking stands. Michigan for one will be one of them...(a lot of active Christians there... that county/state will be one that takes a stand) should they just roll over and do nothing?

Come one folks, we may be prophesied to lose but we weren't ordered to commit suicide or do nothing... "occupy till I come" isnt a suggestion.

JesusMySavior
Nov 4th 2008, 09:39 PM
Just one thing...

Dude, Jesus is totally Lord.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 10:11 PM
Just one thing...

Dude, Jesus is totally Lord.
Fine. I agree, please read the O.P.

JesusMySavior
Nov 4th 2008, 11:56 PM
Fine. I agree, please read the O.P.

???

Is this somehow off-topic? It is for the glory of Christ, correct?


Idk, I'm out.

tango
Nov 5th 2008, 12:02 AM
When we see the police start rounding up the "radical" christians we will do what we can to be unnoticed, and even try to move to a different country if the AC doesnt yet have it fully under his control.

Come one folks, we may be prophesied to lose but we weren't ordered to commit suicide or do nothing... "occupy till I come" isnt a suggestion.

How are you going to help warn people of the consequences of the mark of the beast if you are doing what you can to be unnoticed? You won't go unnoticed for long anyway if you don't bear the mark, unless you're planning on hiding away and hoping you don't die of hunger or disease before it's all over.

Jesus didn't slip away and hide from his pending crucifixion. I still say we'd be better off praying for the strength to stand firm until the end and accept that the end might be in a prison camp, than running away and hoping we managed to stash several tons of food in a place nobody else would ever find.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' " "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

It doesn't say "blessed are those who hide out and survive against the odds"

Dragonfighter1
Nov 5th 2008, 12:05 AM
O.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting
o.k. Stop. Please read the op before posting

quiet dove
Nov 5th 2008, 12:23 AM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:

Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

Much to the pleas of the OP, here is the OP. Maybe this thread could go back on topic. :)

Jerome1
Nov 5th 2008, 03:46 AM
For those who believe there will be a specifically defined '7-yr' tribulation period; Joseph gives a good model on food-storage....he prepared for a 7-yr draught.

For those who believe the tribulation isn't limited to a '7-yr' period; I would think staying close to Psalms 27 and Psalms 91 would be a good start.

Thats not a bad idea now, considering how steeply food prices are rising!

I read or seen something before about MRE's(Meals, Ready-to-Eat), that are specially sealed and have a shelf life of five to ten years!!

Dragonfighter1
Nov 5th 2008, 12:02 PM
I DON'T EXPECT TO SURVIVE. Lets get that established. Now, while I am delaying my death I may be able to bring comfort and salvation to others by my foreplanning. Capitulation is not the only option. Jesus told us to occupy till he comes...not give up to the inevitable.
I may be able to stock pile until its taken, then I'll run till I'm caught. And all the while, I will do all I can to lead others to faith in Christ or to encourage other believers.
Further, Having steeled my mind by pre thinking through the real issues of my impending death I will not err from the faith, and may help others to go to their deaths with confidence and hope rather than fear and confusion.
Do you see now the benefit to preparing? Its not about being invincible, its about preserving hope as much as possible.

Jamey
Nov 5th 2008, 12:37 PM
Ok a thought,
First, if we are to be out in a wilderness area we won't beable to bring alot of ppl with us.
1. more ppl = more land to sustain them
2 more land= more visibility

We may beable to network over an area but no way can we have anything that looks like a commune. Small groups of 10 at most.

We also would need to band together by occupation. ie:
someone in medical
someone technical or mechanical
someone in horticulture
someone who is a carpenter
etc.

Sounds wacky I know. But I was friends with some ppl in the MS militia and remember what they all did when Clinton got elected.

Never thought about it till now.

J

White Spider
Nov 5th 2008, 11:11 PM
I just want to say I personally do not look at surviving as hiding. Part of my goal in staying alive is so that I can do missions and try to save people. (:rolleyes: Wow that sounds goofy)

But stuff like Christians do even today. Night preaching. Leaving Bibles on doorsteps. Stuff like that. I am not planning to survive because I don't want to die. I can't wait to get to heaven, death is the door I must walk through to get to heaven and I am more than ready to do so at any moment, but we as Christians are supposed to spread the WORD and I cannot do that if I am dead.

White Spider
Nov 5th 2008, 11:24 PM
Ok a thought,
First, if we are to be out in a wilderness area we won't beable to bring alot of ppl with us.
1. more ppl = more land to sustain them
2 more land= more visibility

J

Actually I think we need to stay in large groups. It just means we cannot build things that stick out. It means living in hollow tree trunks, caves, huts that look like bush hedges etc. If we stay in small groups it will be easier for us to be killed off.

A 4-10 man military team would easily be able to kill off a 10-25 person group. But if we are in a group of a hundred or so it is less likely they will be able to overpower that many people.

There is also a lot of work to be done during the day to survive. A small group may not be able to have someone able to stand watch at night. A larger group will more easily be able to split up work loads evenly and make sure everything is covered as well as get things accomplished quicker.

It does not take much more to sustain 100 people than it does 20. It just means people will have to get over there social taboos and use everything on an animal. A grasshopper is several times more nutritious than the same sized piece of lean preferred steak. Raw fish is much healthier than cooked fish. Birds however you need to cook fully along with most ground mammals. It can be easy to survive if you know what you are doing.

(Makes me think of Robin Hood and how he lived, haha)

Dragonfighter1
Nov 5th 2008, 11:51 PM
Excellent post White SPider.
For all visitors. Please read the O.P BEFORE Posting.
Thanks
DF1

Ashley274
Nov 6th 2008, 02:07 AM
I read the OP I can fit in here because I am a no stance person so pre , post.. whatever.. I just KNOW Jesus is coming back.....I would only prepare with a Bible (before they ban them or make them all PC) and prayer...

third hero
Nov 6th 2008, 06:55 PM
You know, dragonfighter, in order to truly prepare for the greatest period of human suffering ever, we must first take note as to what dangers we can expect to face.

First, There will be no way for us to go into grocery stores to buy food. the mark will ensure that. So, we have to find methods of raising and growing food. (Honestly, I believe that the Mennonites are the most prepared).

Now, combine this with another fact. The world, led by the Beast, will seek our destruction. They will have declared war against us, and our God. Therefore, we have to plan out whether to take the world on head-on by fighting them, or fleeing and seeking places to hide from our enemies. My personal opinion is that we have to consider both options. This would mean that some believers will have to take up arms and defend the rest, especially if we want have some people survive until the Lord returns. (I know, that's "unChristian" right?)

Now, combine all of this with the fact that the Christians will have to congregate and live together during this hostile environment, and those who try to fly solo will be found out, and exterminated, (although that would mean that they will have beaten the Beast by being beheaded for their testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ). How are we going to have communities thast interact with each other, while having and maintaining order, while staying mobile, and fending off the entire world, who all want to either convert you to Satan, or destroy you.

These are the thee main problems that all believers will face when that time comes. In my opinion, before we can physically prepare for the worst period in human history, we have to spiritually prepare. According to what I have studied, the Lord showed me that the believers must be one if they are to have a fighting chance at surviving the Great Tribulation. I know that if we end up in the Great Tribulation, we would probably all believe in the post-trib POV. However, in my opinion, then would be too late, mainly because the basics have to be in operation BEFORE the Great Tribulation begins in Jerusalem. And so, as much as I loathe the arguing and endless debate that is usually found in places like this forum, they are indeed necessary for the populous to understand what is the truth, and what is not. We have to get it together and root out the false doctrines that are in the churches today. We have to prop back up the Lord's standard which many churches have forsaken. We have to be one, as the Lord and His Father are one. Whether we like it or not, this is the only way we can have a chance at surviving the Great Tribulation.

And so, my answer to the OP is this, until we become one, we will never be prepared for the Great tribulation, no matter what physical preparations we take.

cavscout
Nov 8th 2008, 01:06 PM
The first and most important thing is being spiritually prepared. Without that, everything else is futile at best.

Second would be Knowledge. This is something that can be hidden very easily, is worth more than any gold or silver, and cannot be taken from you. It would be quite simple to store up 6 months or a year’s worth of food and water. You could do it fairly inexpensively and would it would not be very difficult to hide. But the chances of you being able to stay in one place for an extended period of time and remain undetected are slim and none. So the knowledge to be able to be self reliant is a very valuable tool.

Third would be what I like to call “hard” items. By that I mean, A knife, hatchet, personal water storage containers(military canteens or the like), fishing and hunting items, sleeping bags or blankets, a couple changes of cloths, basically any item that will not spoil or otherwise go bad. They have no nutritional value in and of themselves, but they are extremely valuable in aiding your survival.

Forth would be hygiene products. Tooth paste and brush, soap, feminine items, aspirin, and other items like these. If you get to the point where you cannot keep yourself clean or in good operating condition, you become a liability to yourself and others around you. Our bodies are no longer immune to a lot of the bacteria that we come in contact with every day. If you are not able to clean away that bacteria, it WILL make you sick.

Fifth would be some minor medical supplies. Bandages, medical tape, gauze, antiseptic spray or ointment, and things like that. If you can put your hands on them, the little stitches kit for sewing up wounds. You would be amazed at the injury you can take and still be functional, but you have to treat them and keep them clean. Another good item is super glue. It is great for closing up small to medium cuts.

You should be able to get just about all of these items into a medium size pack and they should be easily accessible and easily moved. With this list, you CAN survive extended periods of time on your own. Another thing to consider is if you are on any type of daily medication. You should be doing EVERYTHING you can to get off of it. That type of specialty item will not be available in times like we are talking about.

As for location, in my opinion, country/urban is better than wilderness unless you have a very good knowledge of wilderness survival skills, which most people don’t. You can move around with a fair amount of ease and there are still modern day resources to be had.

As for the ministry, this should be something that we do on a daily basis. Not only by what we tell other people, but of we live our lives. How we treat other people and the life we lead away from Church.


This is just a “LEAN” list of things to consider. There is a lot more details and in depth things to know, but that would take a long time to go through.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 8th 2008, 02:14 PM
Cavscout, Third Hero, These are excellent posts! Kudos coming to both of you.

Think through the preparations methods thats are best in your opinion based on the likely scenario that the A.C. will not have global instantaneous power. That is, that we will likely see his total authority in the Mid East first and then expanded over a short period of time to Europe and the Americas. What would be the best thing to buy before the grocery stores require the mark? What would be the best thing to do in the days immediately before the mark was required (assumes some degree of likelyhood that we will know something is going wrong).

TO EVERYONE ELSE READING THIS THREAD PLEASE REMEMBER TO READ THE O.P. BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING AT ALL. THANKS.

Saved7
Nov 9th 2008, 02:23 AM
I agree with Jamey...the more people the more visible, the fewer people the less visible and the easier it is to pick up and move at a moment's notice. All things would have to be quickly gathered and packed and easily portable to a new and safer location if needed.
Also, whitespider, remember we are not to be killing people for the sake of our own survival, if we die for Christ's sake, then praise the Lord, if we survive, then praise the Lord. WE are christians, remember "harmless as doves, but wise as serpents" ..our Lord never said for us to be as dangerous as serpents. WE are not to be an army, but a light. Loving others, even to the point of alllowing ourselves to be killed instead of killing. That doesn't mean that we can't live on the run, or hide from danger, but neither does it mean to be an army of sorts. Remember what Jesus said when Peter tried to fight to defend Jesus....His Kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD, therefore, we are not to FIGHT ANYBODY.

We will definately needs groups with people who have all sorts of knowledge, like doctors, homeopathics, growing food, drying and storing foods, building, living off the land that sort of thing.

White Spider
Nov 9th 2008, 08:08 AM
I do not think more people necessarily means being more visible.

Blending into your surroundings is the key. This can be done on a large scale quite easily.

I think small groups are great, but it requires a broader range of knowledge per person and may not be suitable for everyone, especially children and elderly.

Not everyone is mobile. Some will simply need a more permanent home. Larger groups will be needed for many, not everyone is cut out for a life on the run.

I have personally been preparing myself to learn to live off my bare hands, but not everyone can do that.

Small groups are fine, but we cannot overlook the necessity of larger scale village-like places for people.

As far as killing goes, "martyrdom" is asked of us, but being slaughtered where no one else knows is a bit pointless. Something I struggle with. If I am confronted in an urban area and people are watching I will let myself be killed, but alone or in a small group in the wild I think I will fight for my life to continue my good works. Martyrdom in front of other Christians is preaching to the choir in my opinion. (Perhaps I am wrong but that is my personal opinion right now.)

Richard H
Nov 9th 2008, 03:27 PM
...

As far as killing goes, "martyrdom" is asked of us, but being slaughtered where no one else knows is a bit pointless. Something I struggle with. If I am confronted in an urban area and people are watching I will let myself be killed, but alone or in a small group in the wild I think I will fight for my life to continue my good works. Martyrdom in front of other Christians is preaching to the choir in my opinion. (Perhaps I am wrong but that is my personal opinion right now.)I believe that even a saint who is martyred in the jungle of Central America - without other saints to see - still brings glory to God.

Preface:
God created hell to punish rebellious angels and angels are subject to judgement.
God's angels see what happens as witnesses in the trial against Satan -
and also to learn about the justice righteousness and supremacy of God.
In other words: they understand how God alone is the Most High"
That is glory for God.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
2Peter 2:4

OK Ready? :)

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
1Timothy 5:21

By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
1Timonthy 3:16

For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
1Corinthians 4:9

Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Corinthians 11:10

"And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God;
but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
Luke 12:8,9

"In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
Luke 15:10

And certainly not last...
"Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
"What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
"But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
"So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.
"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 10:26-33

Richard H
Nov 9th 2008, 03:32 PM
Sorry. I know it was somewhat "off topic", but I felt it was important. :)

Saved7
Nov 9th 2008, 09:29 PM
As far as killing goes, "martyrdom" is asked of us, but being slaughtered where no one else knows is a bit pointless. Something I struggle with. If I am confronted in an urban area and people are watching I will let myself be killed, but alone or in a small group in the wild I think I will fight for my life to continue my good works. Martyrdom in front of other Christians is preaching to the choir in my opinion. (Perhaps I am wrong but that is my personal opinion right now.)


What do other people seeing have to do with it???:confused It's a mandate from God, we are not to kill, not even for the sake of continuing the gospel. If we are killed and noone see's but God and the killer, that's the only thing that matters. You are not to worry about how your death will or won't effect those who don't believe, you are to worry yourself about living and dying for Christ, not killing for Him.

minority
Nov 9th 2008, 10:34 PM
I have to preface this reply with stating that this is my first post on this board. I have joined to discuss with other believers the Bible, current events, and opinions so I may have a greater understanding. I pray the Lord's blessing on this board, and it's members in Jesus' name.

Without getting extremely off topic I also have to say that while I have Biblical knowledge, I have just started really devoting a great deal of time on this subject of the end of times. Without warning since Tuesday night, Nov. 4th 2008, I have felt extremely compelled to constantly be reading, praying, learning, and researching a variety of things. These mainly include Biblical prophesies, scriptures, and information on current events.

Without getting into conspiracies, prophecies, or predictions, I believe that one thing that we as Christians can agree upon is that the time is near. How near cannot be determined. I do believe however, that I am not alone in feeling excited, scared, and sad in seeing the decay of the United States and the world as a whole.

This being said, to respond to the OP, I believe we first need to form a team of like-minded people. They will need to be able to look at the necessities of survival, pick a place, and start stocking up. This is something I have seen on here and is nothing new. I must then respond with the question of when do we start? How fast will it happen where we cannot buy or sell without submitting? Will you have the funds/time/ability to physically leave and go? Where is safe to go? I believe it was the OP who wrote somewhere with mild weather. I live on Maui, physically the most isolated place in the world. Is this sufficient even though we are a part of the U. S.? Any thoughts on this are welcome, but I think not.

The truth for me is this. Tuesday night when I saw who America elected to be the president of this great nation, my wife and I had a confusing bad feeling. I say confusing, because we had both anticipated and accepted whatever the result of the election. If we do need 3.5 years of survival goods, when do we start planning? I feel that as of right now we watch and pray. Hopefully that's what we will do for many years to come. One thing I know for certain is that right now we need to have our eyes open wide and very on guard.

Tanya~
Nov 10th 2008, 05:30 AM
Hi DF,



"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.





I'm a post-tribber and believe in preparing, but not materially. Tango made some strong points about the practicality of making physical preparations and trying to secure them for the 3.5 years of Antichrist rule. Do the math. Unless you have a great deal of money and a secure location, it just isn't practical. I think this is why the Lord didn't tell us to do this.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:I do believe we need to prepare. Here is how the Lord instructed us to prepare:

Luke 21:34-36

"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
NKJV
The term "counted worthy" is from a Greek word that means to prevail, to be strong, to overpower. The preparation Jesus gives in this passage is that we should not carouse, get drunk, and worry about the things of this life -- the 'cares of life.' The 'cares of this life' that you're worrying about here include the basic needs you're talking about:

Matt 6:31-34
31 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
NKJV
The main area of preparation, the thing we're supposed to DO while we trust in the Lord to protect us, is to pray for that protection.

Jesus repeatedly exhorted us to watch and to pray. See Matt 24:36-44; Mark 13:32-37; Luke 12:35-40.

Look at the contrast between two churches Jesus spoke to in Revelation:

To the church at Sardis:
Rev 3:1-4
'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
NKJV
To the church at Philadelphia:
Rev 3:10-11
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
NKJV
The Apostle Paul also taught about this to the Thessalonians. He said essentially the same thing Jesus did, quoted above in the Luke 21 passage:

1 Thess 5:1-10

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
NKJV
Notice the importance of sobriety and watching (and waiting patiently). This is how we are to prepare for the coming of the Lord and all the things that will necessarily precede that coming.

We can trust that He will take care of us, and provide what we need. If you want to move somewhere and have something specific to DO to ensure that you will be safe, Judea would be the place to go, and this is why:

Matt 24:15-21
"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
NKJV
Now it might look like this is the worst place to be, but Jesus gives the Judeans the most specific instructions on what to do when the Antichrist is revealed. But God has revealed what He will do for those who run into the wilderness at this time:

Rev 12:6
6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
NKJV
1,260 days is 3.5 years -- the time period when the Antichrist will be active -- the same as 42 months spoken of in Revelation 13. When Israel is forced out of Judea, God Himself will have a place prepared for her where she will be fed.

If we obey Jesus' command to wait patiently, to watch soberly, and to pray, we can trust that He will also take care of us.

So in answer to your questions:




What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We should NOT stockpile water, food, guns etc. We should not seek a hiding place other than God Himself. God will show us what we need to do when the time comes. If we believe and trust Him, He will show Himself faithful and will provide for us.

Ps 119:114
114 You are my hiding place and my shield;
I hope in Your word.
NKJV


Our ministry should be to do whatever God puts in our path to do, just the same as now. Different people may be called to different things. If we watch and pray in obedience to Jesus' command, we can trust that He will lead us in whatever we need to do.

We do not need to worry about this or be afraid. If you do feel anxious about it, go to those Psalms that David Taylor recommended, and read them -- pray over them daily until you have peace about it.

That's what I believe we need to do to prepare for the Tribulation, and yes, I agree that Christians will be on earth during that time, clear up until the day the Lord arrives in power and great glory.

Mark 13:24-27
"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
NKJV


We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. Trusting God, watching for His return, and praying faithfully for strength to endure, to be hidden, to be protected and provided for is the most practical thing we can do. Trying to secure enough supplies for an entire family living in the city or suburbs is just flat out impractical if not impossible for the vast majority of Christians. Do the math. Militant survivalists and Mormons ARE preparing in exactly this way, but instruction to do this is conspicuously absent from Scripture.

:hug: Don't be afraid! Don't worry! Pray as the Lord has commanded, and trust Him.

RoadWarrior
Nov 10th 2008, 05:50 AM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.



:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:


Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

As I was reading through Tanya's response, I remembered this scripture

Lk 6:38
38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
NKJV

For anyone who has the finances to stockpile such a huge amount of food, water and other necessities, it would be wise to use that money today, to feed the hungry and meet the needs of the suffering.

It would be impossible to stockpile it and protect it, but if we give that amount into the work of God toward others, then when we are in need, it will come to us.

Another verse speaks to the same principle, using the concept of the tithe.

Mal 3:10
10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,"
Says the Lord of hosts,
"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.
NKJV

third hero
Nov 10th 2008, 08:39 AM
What do other people seeing have to do with it???:confused It's a mandate from God, we are not to kill, not even for the sake of continuing the gospel. If we are killed and noone see's but God and the killer, that's the only thing that matters. You are not to worry about how your death will or won't effect those who don't believe, you are to worry yourself about living and dying for Christ, not killing for Him.

You know, I have struggled with this aspect for a VERY LONG TIME! And you know what, saved7? You are right. We are not to kill. This is a commandment, and we can not ignore it. And at the same time, it is clearly written in Revelation that the beast shall make war against the saints. This says to me that we should at least have the right to defend ourselves. But then, if we take up arms to fight against the Beast, we would have to do so knowing that we have absolutely no chance of defeating him. So what do we do?

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. -Zechariah 14:3

According to what I believe, before Satan launches his all-out attack against us, he will attack Israel, with Jerusalem as his focal point. When that happens, the Lord will come out and fight, not only for the Israelites who faced annihilation, but subsequently us as well. And so, maybe we can survive without taking up arms against the Beast.

I am still torn, but Zechariah 14:3 gives me a whole lot more hope than what I had when I first had to tackle this issue. If the Lord fight for us, then we would definitely have a fighyting chance of having at least some survivors when He comes.

ANd even so, before we can physically prepare, we must spiritually prepare, and not just individually, but collectively. It's time we go back into the churches, armed withthe truth, and begin the battle to purge our churches of the myriads of false doctrines that have seeped into our religion over the last 1900 years.

Studyin'2Show
Nov 10th 2008, 12:36 PM
We must certainly prepare spiritually. But who are we to judge someone else's servant? If God leads someone who has the finances to store food and water and not to give the money to the poor, who are we to judge God. God has his reasons. Jesus could have sold the perfume for a YEAR'S wages. Many judged Him wrongly for allowing it to be used in a different way. I believe each of us should do like Mary told the servants to do at the wedding at Cana. Whatever He says, do it!

In my case, last year I was genuinely led to start a food garden. I had NEVER grown a single thing in my whole life and I'm 41 now. I learned so much and we had lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, and green onions plentifully for months. I'm still finishing off my green onions. We had green beans, peas, and corn less plentifully but I learned a whole lot. I didn't start my snowpeas or eggplant or squash at the right time so they didn't yield properly. I really and truly believe God led me to do this. I should be starting my seeds in a week or two for this season and I plan to grow smarter instead of spinning my wheels on the wrong crops at the wrong times. Ironically, spiritually speaking, so much came alive for me. I thought I truly understood the law of sowing and reaping but I gained a much deeper understanding after watching a little seed turn into food or on the other hand not reap any crop at all.

The point is simply that God leads different people to do different things. He told Ezekiel to eat bread made with excrement for fuel in front of everyone. I'm sure that looked mighty odd. He told Isaiah to walk around for more than a year with his buttocks uncovered. How silly did that appear to those on the outside? We don't know why He leads us to do certain things but if we are smart, we do what He says. Someone might have the funds to store dried food and bottled water that would last them for years, then they may be led to share it with a group of other believers in hiding for a few months instead. Or they may die and it may be used by those who need it.:dunno: Who knows? God knows! :) Let them follow as He may be leading THEM without having other believers think they're as odd as Isaiah and Ezekiel must have looked. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

God Bless!

leebee
Nov 10th 2008, 12:55 PM
Hope this isn't too off topic. If it is forgive me, I've had this conversation before and this phrase keeps popping up.--Does anyone know if in the Bible it says," God helps those who help themselves.":hmm:

Studyin'2Show
Nov 10th 2008, 01:17 PM
Hope this isn't too off topic. If it is forgive me, I've had this conversation before and this phrase keeps popping up.--Does anyone know if in the Bible it says," God helps those who help themselves.":hmm:No, it does NOT. It, like may other phrases some attribute to God, comes from the heart of man. :rolleyes:

Dragonfighter1
Nov 10th 2008, 01:21 PM
I think that prayer is not a one way street. What is the point of praying if we are not sober minded enough to respond to any feedback we get. The purpose of prayer is not to persuade God but to allow God to pursued us.

When we ask for help to prepare and then say that 'other than prayer we need do nothing' we deny God the opportunity to guide us.

With regard to this and the planning discussion we are having.. Let me tell you about something that happened in my home last night. ....

My stepson was in the other room and my wife and I were talking about the end times (I had just posted to another and she was chatting and asking about it). Then she said "What about my son, have you talked to him about this?"

I said...lets find out, and I called him.

When he arrived I said: "Chris, I am going to role play something with you. You are to take this very seriously this is not a game so dont be flippant ok?

He said "OK"

I said "I am in uniform, holding a real gun (I pointed my finger at my wife's temple), I am pointing it at you mothers head, In a moment I will either pull the trigger or put the gun down......I am going to ask you a question, If you answer 'yes' I will kill your own mother, she WILL die; OR if you say 'NO', I will let her live. ...
DO you understand this?...OK here's the question:

"Do you believe Jesus is God, are you a Christian?"


Question: Which answer was immediate..
"NO! I want my mom to live!"
or
"See you in heaven mom, I love you"

?????????????????????????????

Now do you see that preparing covers much more than just being convinced in your own mind. There are kids to explain this to, there are many other things that can be done to prepare.

Indeed, what should we do for the disabled and the impoverished? Just ignore them as hell approaches? Moonglow herself has admitted life would be very difficult for her in terms of any stock piling, or running away. But should we just leave her to await the soldiers? I don't think many of us are going to wave a flag at soldiers patrolling the streets:.... "Hey, Helllooooo, over here, come and get me."

There will be much to do. There is much to do now. This thread is doing a great job of capturing thoughts, ideas, and debate points that will help us synthesize a useful approach.

Lets keep up the posts and try to find the jewels that will create a "white paper" for planning our exit strategy:pp

SpokenFor
Nov 10th 2008, 02:46 PM
For those whose spouses/children are not Christian..

Do you still plan to hide in the wilderness? Would you take your spouse/child with you? Do you think that your spouse would receive the mark of the beast and then provide for you and your family or would they listen to you and refuse to get it and then try to survive with you? I think that my husband will be quick to get the mark and that he would try to provide for me for a short time, but I think that eventually he would turn me in. I suppose if I felt that his allegiance was turning and had time to get out, I could try to hide, but I have a daughter with special needs. Yes, I trust that if God wanted me to flee that he will also provide for her needs and health (of course, I believe that her health is in His hands anyway), but it certainly would make things more difficult.

As far as physical prep..I am trying to "stockpile" a small amount....not for getting through the tribulation, but just because the price of food keeps rising and when I can find canned goods on sale, I try to add to my pantry for harder times ahead.

third hero
Nov 10th 2008, 05:55 PM
You know, in America, we already have people in place to help us survive the greatest period of human suffering ever, and they are called Mennonites. They live off of the land, and grow and raise their own food. IN many senses, they are truly independent people who rely on the govenrment for nothing.

This is why, in my opinion, the churches in America need to sit down, get rid of their false doctrines, return to their roots and reach out to the Mennonites. They will help. I should know, because I was invitewd to a Mennonite community to learn from them. I really wanted to, and I will accept their invitation eventually.

In America, it is our unity that God will use to bring survivors out of the Great Tribulation.

Now for other thoughts concerning preparation. I believe that it is paramount that the children are taught as early as possible concerning the Mark of the Beast, the advent of the Beast, and the Great Tribulation. I believe as Dragonfighter does, that we are to constantly test our children, and hopefully, we can make sure that they will make the right decision.

Concerning spiritual preparation. He who loves his life will LOSE it, and he who loses his life for Christ's sake shall find it. This is the hardest part for any Christian to face, especially those who have lived in comfort all of their lives. Look around, see all of the things you have, and walk away from them. It is these posessions that the Lord is going to use to test us. If we love our posessions, our houses, our careers, our comfort more than Him, then we SHALL FAIL and take the Mark. We must be literally, spiritually, and emotionally prepared to die. All of the conforts of this world are indeed meaningless.

Can't live without being on your computer? Turn it off, and do not touch it for a day, or a week, or a month. Can't live without your TV? Turn it off, and live without it for a month. Are you like me and can't breath without my video games? Take some time off of them, like a month or a year, and live without them.

Get unattached to this world in every way, for we are not of this world, even though we have so many comforts that the world gives to us. All of the riches of this world are not blessings from God, but rather instruments to test our resolve to Him. If we love our comfort more than Him, we are not worthy of Him. It is as Lord Jesus says. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who loses his life for (Christ's) sake shall find it.

Prepare thyself, Christian, to die.

When you are prepared to die, then you are ready to prepare for the greatest period of human suffering ever. This is why I am preparing to die, even though the Lord is not giving me that option. He is steadily taking my comfort away, and causing me to live with lack. It is only a matter of time that I will lose my internet connection again, and I will have to live without it. I am not ready yet, and truthfully, not many others are either. But the Lord is preparing me, and I suggest that you become a curse to this world and have God prepare you as well.

leebee
Nov 10th 2008, 06:33 PM
No, it does NOT. It, like may other phrases some attribute to God, comes from the heart of man. :rolleyes:


I didn't think so. Thanks for the info.

Tanya~
Nov 10th 2008, 07:57 PM
I do agree that if one does feel led of God to make physical preparations then of course they should do that. My biggest concern is that we would make our preparations the focus and not trust in the Lord's provision.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 10th 2008, 08:20 PM
Tanya, the point you are trying to make is valid.

The point we are trying to make is valid too! Allow me to explain...
I have a child, AND I want my child to mature.
He can sit on a stool and watch tv all day if I let him, but I wont.
He can say, "dad will provide", but I send him to school anyway,... because I WANT him to be able to provide for himself. Its not that I want him to leave home, or to not NEED me. I will always love him, but, part of maturing is becoming less dependent. God will always love us but he too wants us to grow up.
He could say "well dad will always protect me, I wont study." But the bible says study to show thyself approved etc.. AND I say to my son, "study to show thyself approved with your grade card or I'll make life uncomfortable for you."

I have two step sons right now that have this exact behaviour, they do no work, at 19 and 24 neither has a job yet, they stay at home saying...mom will provide...

OK? See how this works? I am furious at them but since they are my step kids I am looking for ways to motivate them. So, I took away the TV, the Computers, the radios, the video games, etc.. there is nothing for them to do... and Oh biy what a bunch of whining I get. It's not fair, what am I gonna do? thats all I hear. And because I love them I say: "Go get a job" It took 7 weeks to get the youngest to go look for a job! I had to take him door to door to all the fast food restautrants and shops and stores and help him put in applications just so macdonalds would offer hima job last week!

So, YES the lord will provide. he already does in manby ways as you yourself would be quick to point out. The problem is (not with you personally) that most christians are like my step sons,.. they just dont want to do any hard work, and hard thinking, any sweating, any agonizing, and then they want to turn around and say... hey mom, dad, take care of me please. I can tell you this, if they asked me to wipe their tushes, I wouldnt, I'd let them get sore and raw, and painful, but I'd make them learn how to take care of their own hygene. SO it is with the end times.. If God provides us with the time, tools and guidance to prepare for the end times and then we ask him to wipe our bottoms, (to use the euphamism) I think he will allow us to get very sore backsides!

To God death is not a big deal. He knows what is on the other side, to us as parent getting our kids out of diapers.(English-nappies) is no big deal we know what is on the other side for our babies (clean bottoms at all times), we actually want it for them. But many babies have anal retentive issues, they dont want to be without diapers, it scares them. So they mess themsleves and are miserable and so we keep teaching them until one day they get it!

God is constantly teaching us, providing educational teaching and provision instead of easy solutions just so we mature and grow.

Preparing for the end times isnt a loss of focus it is a focus on Gods provition of education and training and of maturing in the Lord. He want sus to prepare. The redneck version of preparing is to load the gun and backpack into nowhere. There is a lot more to preparing properly than simply being a rednecked moron. I would say that the wilderness plan may be an optin for some, and not something to completely ignore, but definitely there is much that must be done to be prepared spiritually, physically, medically, provisionally, etc.. but particularly spiritually.

Hope that clarifies what I am trying to acchieve in this thread.

Thanks,
df

RoadWarrior
Nov 10th 2008, 08:22 PM
My husband and I had a chat about this subject this morning. His view is that those who are concerned about this should look into acquiring the supplies stockpiled already, by those who feared Y2K.

I'm curious if there are any here who have stockpiles from that time? Or who did stockpile at that time, and what did you do with the supplies when the disaster did not happen?

Having a garden, becoming more independent from utility companies, etc., are good things to do in any case.

My deepest concern in this discussion is how it affects others ... new Christians, those who are handicapped, those below the poverty line already.

I am in full agreement that if the Lord is leading you to do something, you should obey His leading. If that means you store food, then do it. If it means He calls you to move, then do it. But I don't agree that we should make extreme moves out of fear of man or Satan.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 10th 2008, 08:27 PM
Please read post number 1 and post number 102 and lets get back on track.

Thanks
DF

RoadWarrior
Nov 10th 2008, 10:11 PM
...

Preparing for the end times isnt a loss of focus it is a focus on Gods provition of education and training and of maturing in the Lord. He want sus to prepare. The redneck version of preparing is to load the gun and backpack into nowhere. There is a lot more to preparing properly than simply being a rednecked moron. I would say that the wilderness plan may be an optin for some, and not something to completely ignore, but definitely there is much that must be done to be prepared spiritually, physically, medically, provisionally, etc.. but particularly spiritually.

Hope that clarifies what I am trying to acchieve in this thread.

Thanks,
df

One of the first things I would recommend, is that we start learning and teaching our children the basics of economics. People are vulnerable when they are ignorant of basic facts. In school they learn basic math, but not basic economics. Kids graduate from college not even knowing how to balance a checkbook. The first thing we are seeing with the current crisis is economics.

If we live 3.5 years into the GT, then we will certainly need to know our way around the banking system, how to have investments balanced with cash and negotiables. Bartering and trading will become more important as the banking system becomes more and more controlled.

Even if we all decided that moving into the wilderness was the wise choice, and were able to act on that, guess what would happen. There would become a city of Christians in the wilderness, most of whom do not know how to grow potatoes by planting a portion of the potato with at least 3 "eyes" so that it will grow and produce more potatoes. So #2 would be teaching people how to grow and produce their own food.

The community college near me holds a class every year on what foods grow naturally in our area. The Maidu Indians lived off the land here, by eating things like cattail roots and acorns. Of course you need to know when to harvest these things, and how to treat the acorns to remove the toxins, also how to grind them and cook them so that they are edible. Find out which parts of a pine cone are edible and how to get that out so you can eat it. Squirrels know, so keep in mind you will be in competition with them, if you do end up in the wilderness without the comforts of home.

How to trap and dress a squirrel, and cook it over an open fire.

How to build a shelter in the wilderness would be good knowledge to have. When mankind lived as nomads, all the skills for survival were part of everyday life, and children learned from the cradle onward, all the hard work that was necessary to stay alive.

Knowing how to mend your own clothing and shoes would be a good skill to teach.

Water - how to find it, how to purify it if what you find is a stagnant pool.

Tanya~
Nov 10th 2008, 11:22 PM
DF,

I think you're comparing apples with oranges. Maybe this is due to differences we have regarding what Christians are actually going to have to face during the GT. Being a responsible person in day to day life is one thing, and how to respond to the most massive persecution that ever occurred on earth is another. Have you calculated how much food, water, medicine and other supplies you will need to provide for your family for 3.5 years in hiding? Have you done the math?

In your discussion you're comparing the GT with the normal training of a child. You also say this:



God is constantly teaching us, providing educational teaching and provision instead of easy solutions just so we mature and grow.

Where does Scripture teach us to prepare materially for the GT? I see lots of passages of Scripture that speak of this and how we are to respond. And maybe God will lead some to hide somewhere. And yet there are two passages that stand out most clearly on this issue:

Luke 21:36
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
NKJV

Rev 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
NKJV



Preparing for the end times isnt a loss of focus it is a focus on Gods provition of education and training and of maturing in the Lord.

What is the Biblical education and training and maturing in the Lord that speaks to this question? What does the Lord teach us about how to prepare?

2 Peter 3:11-12
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
NKJV

I do believe that if you feel the Holy Spirit urging you to do this, then this is what you need to do. If he has provided a place and the massive financial means to gather all the necessary supplies, then of course you must do as He has commanded, just as the Lord commanded Noah to build the ark. The majority of Christians though, do not have the earthly means to do that, and for those of us in that situation, we have the option of dying a martyr's death, or seeking what Jesus commanded that we seek -- that the Lord will grant us to escape so that we can survive until His return.


He want sus to prepare.

I agree. But we have different ideas of what consists in that preparation. I don't think Scripturally He calls us to do what you're suggesting.


Hope that clarifies what I am trying to acchieve in this thread.

I think I understand what you're trying to achieve, it is something of a brainstorming session to discuss how to practically go about escaping the GT by gathering supplies and finding a place to hide. The only problem is that the troubles are going to be so extreme that our own efforts along these lines are not likely to be very useful against the onslaught. It seems to me that you're underestimating both the extent of the trouble and the reality of gathering all the necessary supplies for this kind of thing.

I'm not saying this as a cop-out to cover laziness on my part of not wanting to do hard work. IMO one of the hardest things to do is trust God in time of trouble, and to pray fervently and consistently, trusting in a promise that the Lord has given to us when it seems impossible.

Vadelerj
Nov 11th 2008, 12:07 AM
If we assume (dangerous) that prophecy's about these times apply to the middle East, then it may be safer in the America's.

I would not think America safe at all. First, our country will economically fall. Then, it's only going to get much worse. We have done so much evil in the world, allowed so much evil here within our borders, the harshest judgment will be upon our country. Just as the whole world's eyes have been upon us for so long for leadership. Our enemies are many, believe it or not, and our weakest moment is yet to come. We have had our chance. Our country was set aside for God's Glory, yet has been judged and found wanting miserably.
Third world countries will be the safest place possible.
Ask God, in prayer, to where or IF you should flee. Be it within the state, country, continent, world.
He has a plan for each of us. Some will be here to help, some will be here to die.
Some will go elsewhere to help. Some will go elsewhere to die.
No matter what, it's all for Him and His Glory and His Will.
Take heart and heed what He calls you to do.
BE OBEDIENT.
Be disobedient at your own peril.


Others could sell everything off while they still could and use the money to buy a sailboat and live on that, bartering their skills for supplies at various places.

Just a thought, but I'd stay out of the water because of Rev 16:4. There will be much death in the waters.

-------

However, aside from anything else, the #1 thing you can do to prepare is to: Fine Tune Your Faith
Period

Ask God where you stand with your faith. Ask Him to help you understand what to do to prepare. God can, does, and will answer these questions. Nothing that a man can tell you will be nearly as helpful as what God can tell you (Except for those times, of course, when God uses a man to speak to you to achieve His will).

You can stock and store up all you want. But when/if it becomes necessary to flee your place of shelter on very short or no notice, what will you do? Your faith will save you, for God will guide you during this time. No amount of preparation will save you without the faith to know that God has a plan for you. Everyone will either be marked by the beast, beheaded, or used for other works during this time. If you are used for other works, you will be kept alive by God, not by anything/anyone else. True, things and people will be involved in the process, but only those that God put in your path to be used as such.

The second thing I would say for preparing is: Learn to listen to His voice even more than you do now

I ask you this in ALL seriousness. I do not expect an answer, but take it to God Almighty. Do you have the faith to look at a rock and receive water?

Preparing physically without first preparing spiritually will be the recipe for disaster for anyone.

Saved7
Nov 11th 2008, 01:58 AM
You know, I have struggled with this aspect for a VERY LONG TIME! And you know what, saved7? You are right. We are not to kill. This is a commandment, and we can not ignore it. And at the same time, it is clearly written in Revelation that the beast shall make war against the saints. This says to me that we should at least have the right to defend ourselves.



.


Remember it says THE BEAST WILL MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS and OVERCOME THEM. It says nothing about us warring back. This is the persecution that this verse is speaking of my dear brother.

This isn't a literal war, how could it be....we are scattered among the nations...he would have to war against all nations and that would work against him. This is the war against the saints by persecution....the destruction of the saints that our Lord might return and fight for us.:pp

Dragonfighter1
Nov 11th 2008, 02:51 AM
DF,

I think you're comparing apples with oranges. Maybe this is due to differences we have regarding what Christians are actually going to have to face during the GT. ...

Tanya,
Please, If you dont believe in the post trib point of view, please do not post here. This thread is getting derailed every other day by well meaning brothers and sisters and I really want to keep the thread lean and straightforward.
Yes, I really have done the math. (Thats why I dont advocate running into the redneck wilderness per se)
Yes I do believe preparation includes all aspects of life to the extent possible, practical, and reasonable. (spiritual preparation alone is not sensible)
No I am not simplifying it. We are going to go thru terrible times, and preparing our whole selves is reasonable.

I will not debate this point anymore. Please, I ask you kindly and respectfully as to a sincere and godly sister, please start another thread if you wish to debate the merits of preparing or not. I wanted this thread to be contributed to by those who...
1./ agree on post trib theology
2./ want to share ideas on preparation.

In Christ,
df1

quiet dove
Nov 11th 2008, 03:22 AM
Tanya,
Please, If you dont believe in the post trib point of view, please do not post here. This thread is getting derailed every other day by well meaning brothers and sisters and I really want to keep the thread lean and straightforward.
Yes, I really have done the math. (Thats why I dont advocate running into the redneck wilderness per se)
Yes I do believe preparation includes all aspects of life to the extent possible, practical, and reasonable. (spiritual preparation alone is not sensible)
No I am not simplifying it. We are going to go thru terrible times, and preparing our whole selves is reasonable.

I will not debate this point anymore. Please, I ask you kindly and respectfully as to a sincere and godly sister, please start another thread if you wish to debate the merits of preparing or not. I wanted this thread to be contributed to by those who...
1./ agree on post trib theology
2./ want to share ideas on preparation.

In Christ,
df1

You must have missed the part of Tanya's post where she said she is post trib.

She is just trying to keep a level headedness here and help everyone keep in mind the reality of preparing in terms of physical needs.

tango
Nov 11th 2008, 03:45 AM
I'd withdrawn from the thread for a time because my views on preparation are more spiritual than physical, for the simple reason that physical preparation is, IMO, mathematically impossible.

Dragonfighter, if after this post you would prefer me to withdraw again I am quite willing to do so.

In the meantime I'd just like to point out that if we trust God we need not worry about preparing to the n-th degree, as shown in several places throughout the Bible:

1Ki 17:11 And as she was going to get it, he called to her and said, "Please bring me a morsel of bread in your hand."
1Ki 17:12 So she said, "As the LORD your God lives, I do not have bread, only a handful of flour in a bin, and a little oil in a jar; and see, I am gathering a couple of sticks that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it, and die."
1Ki 17:13 And Elijah said to her, "Do not fear; go and do as you have said, but make me a small cake from it first, and bring it to me; and afterward make some for yourself and your son.
1Ki 17:14 For thus says the LORD God of Israel: 'The bin of flour shall not be used up, nor shall the jar of oil run dry, until the day the LORD sends rain on the earth.' "
1Ki 17:15 So she went away and did according to the word of Elijah; and she and he and her household ate for many days.
1Ki 17:16 The bin of flour was not used up, nor did the jar of oil run dry, according to the word of the LORD which He spoke by Elijah.


Num 20:7 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Num 20:8 "Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals."
Num 20:9 So Moses took the rod from before the LORD as He commanded him.
Num 20:10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, "Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?"
Num 20:11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.


Mat 14:16 But Jesus said to them, "They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat."
Mat 14:17 And they said to Him, "We have here only five loaves and two fish."
Mat 14:18 He said, "Bring them here to Me."
Mat 14:19 Then He commanded the multitudes to sit down on the grass. And He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke and gave the loaves to the disciples; and the disciples gave to the multitudes.
Mat 14:20 So they all ate and were filled, and they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments that remained.


Aside from the water, it seems that even if we have a little God will multiply it for his glory. So for preparation maybe all we need is a handful of edible supplies, a willingness to share no matter how many come looking for help, and a total faith in God.

Tanya~
Nov 11th 2008, 05:07 AM
Tanya,
Please, If you dont believe in the post trib point of view, please do not post here.

I am a post tribber. Being posttrib doesn't mean you must believe it necessary to stock up against the GT. :hug:



This thread is getting derailed every other day by well meaning brothers and sisters and I really want to keep the thread lean and straightforward.

That is fine and I'm not against the thread. But I think it is important to look at the question Scripturally. What does the Bible teach us about how to prepare? Can you support this view Scripturally?

When you asked HOW TO PREPARE in the thread title, it is reasonable to ask that question of the Scriptures.


(spiritual preparation alone is not sensible)

Why not?



I will not debate this point anymore. Please, I ask you kindly and respectfully as to a sincere and godly sister, please start another thread if you wish to debate the merits of preparing or not.

I'm not debating the merits of preparing. I completely agree we must prepare. You ask HOW TO PREPARE, and that is answered in Scripture -- we must prepare spiritually -- I don't think it is possible truthfully, to prepare physically for what is to come.

BTW you don't have to reply to my responses if you aren't interested in addressing this point any further.


I wanted this thread to be contributed to by those who...
1./ agree on post trib theology
2./ want to share ideas on preparation.

I qualify on both counts. I believe the prost trib position. I believe it is necessary to encourage others to prepare. I firmly believe that not enough Christians are spiritually prepared.

When you have the majority of Christians not even close to being able to do the sorts of things you're suggesting, what would you say to them? "Tough luck, you're going to be killed." I don't think that's the case. Jesus' command implies a promise:

Luke 21:36
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
NKJV

Studyin'2Show
Nov 11th 2008, 11:34 AM
I believe that those who are not able to afford this type of preparedness will be helped by those who have been led ahead of time to prepare. I am also a post tribber. I have not been led to stockpile dry goods. I have been led to learn how to grow food. We all will have our part to play, so we should all follow as the Lord leads. If you are not led to to prepare phusically, then don't. God's word tells us not to fear. So, just because others are discussing how and what to stock up, should not provoke any fear in the heart of a believer. Who knows? One day you may be grateful that another believer heeded His direction and prepared....for YOU! ;)

God Bless!

Dragonfighter1
Nov 11th 2008, 01:05 PM
I'd withdrawn from the thread for a time because my views on preparation are more spiritual than physical, for the simple reason that physical preparation is, IMO, mathematically impossible.

Dragonfighter, if after this post you would prefer me to withdraw again I am quite willing to do so. ......(truncated by DF)
.........

Tango, Tanya, Quiet dove,

NO, I DO NOT WANT YOU TO GO! I am sorry my last post seemed to be a tad frustrated. I want all preparation issues to be front and center. What I do want to do also, is not debate the merits of any type of preparation: Practical or spiritual.
did a poor job of explaining myself earlier. I think the spiritual prep issue to be primary, BUT I don't think practical preparation is completely a waste of time.

Please continue to post here. But let us all agree on what we are trying to achieve.... I wrote in a private apology message to Tanya something to this effect as follows: what practically and specifically needs to be understood spiritually, held firmly spiritually, believed unwaveringly spiritually, and the same practically.

I have said before I don not think all of us will be killed by the AC. The two prophets that testify, and are killed, at the very least survive late into the trib times, and probably a few more with them... Yes God will help them survive, but, I'm sure they will be expected to do SOMETHING to help themselves too.

There were two kinds of jews during the holocaust. 1./ those who tried to deal with it while asking for Gods protection, and 2./ those who claimed Gods protection and walked into the Gestapo's arms.

That may be an over simplification, but it amplifies an important issue: I have kids, I am not going to march to the police station to be shot and leave them in the house to starve, nor am I going to frog march them to the police station with me. Because I love them I am obligated to do all I can do, with what few resources I have, to keep them alive until the inevitable comes to pass. If during that short (or long) period of time I can enjoy some small degree of comfort from my preparations then I will not feel bad. What will irritate me is the brothers and sisters, (that I will willingly help but,) who will draw down on what few comforts I will have because of their willfull lack of preparation.

So you see, the practical and the spiritual are both needed. The spiritual will always be most important but the practical is still beneficial. Further by discussing these things in this thread others who are reading will come to a more mature understanding of those times and perhaps be less inclined to "redneck it".

God bless, please do not be offended at my efforts to communicate my intent. No one is supposed to have their feelings hurt by my writings,

DF1

Tanya~
Nov 11th 2008, 06:04 PM
DF, :hug:

I don't think you're hurting anyone's feelings. :) I hope your feelings aren't hurt by me bringing up my perspective.

When Jesus gives us this command:

Luke 21:36
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
NKJV

It follows that if we are in obedience to this command and do the watching and praying as He says, then He will lead and guide each of us according to what we will need to do, at the time we need to do it. It isn't likely to be the same for each person.

On a personal note concerning the Y2K panic, I observed an interesting phenomenon among Christian friends who were making preparations. It was similar to your comment here:



If during that short (or long) period of time I can enjoy some small degree of comfort from my preparations then I will not feel bad. What will irritate me is the brothers and sisters, (that I will willingly help but,) who will draw down on what few comforts I will have because of their willfull lack of preparation.This was the biggest fear of my friend -- that others would try to take what they had worked so hard and spent so much money to prepare for themselves and their two daughters. It's why they bought the gun. I was berated for not preparing for Y2K, but the fact of the matter is that I didn't have the space or the money to make preparations even for the anticipated few weeks for Y2K. Some of us are forced to put our trust in God alone. But at that time, when my friend was warning me and trying to urge me to stock up on dried food and such, I had complete peace that it would not be necessary to do that.

My concern here is that this whole thing can generate a lot more fear than we need to have. When you start having those kinds of feelings toward other believers it becomes something other than what God wants from us; we are not acting in love. I promise I won't come knocking on your door and ask you to help me and my family. :)

BTW, nobody is advocating walking into the arms of the Antichrist. I just would urge everyone to pray according to Jesus' command above, and trust that He will lead each of us in whatever way He needs to in order to answer that prayer. We can trust Him. That doesn't mean do nothing if you are led to do something. Go where He leads and be at peace.



There were two kinds of jews during the holocaust. 1./ those who tried to deal with it while asking for Gods protection, and 2./ those who claimed Gods protection and walked into the Gestapo's arms.I'm not advocating claiming God's protection and walking into the Gestapo's arms. I'm advocating praying as Jesus commanded, and then trusting Him to lead and guide each of us in such a way that the prayer may be answered. These are HARD things, not easy things. They are active, not passive.


Because I love them I am obligated to do all I can do, with what few resources I have, to keep them alive until the inevitable comes to pass.I don't believe it is inevitable that we will be killed. Many will be killed. But Jesus says this:

Matt 24:22
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
NKJV



God bless, please do not be offended at my efforts to communicate my intent. No one is supposed to have their feelings hurt by my writings,I'm not at all offended or hurt. :hug:

David Taylor
Nov 11th 2008, 07:14 PM
Tanya,
Please, If you dont believe in the post trib point of view, please do not post here. This thread is getting derailed every other day by well meaning brothers and sisters and I really want to keep the thread lean and straightforward.


I've been away quite a bit this last week, and I know Rookie travels quite a bit too; so there have been alot of threads for QD to keep up with in this and her other forum....so realize that if a thread is getting derailed; the best way to get quick aid is to use the red 'report' triangle; and it will send it to where all mods and admins can review it; and will probably get you a little quicker attention. (when the regular ETC staff might be out of pocket).

That being said, however, we gotta be pretty careful about starting exclusionary threads, and then requesting those who might disagree to refrain from participating. Regardless of the topic, that type of precidence can get out-of-hand really quick with a forum that has tens of thousands of posters; and thousands of posts daily.

We'll try to help you keep you thread from getting derailed; but you can't get upset if a Pretribber or MidTribber or PanTribber happens to want to contribute something to the discussion.

The interesting thing about threads are....the longer the thread, the more likely the derail, and the introduction of new and fresh rabbit-chases. It really doesn't matter what the topic is; if the thread lives long enough, it will derail to some degree even under the most watchful and diligent eyes. We all have a short attention span sometimes.

Just remember to report specific derails, if they are really frustrating you; and we'll look at them!

Thanks

:)

Dragonfighter1
Nov 11th 2008, 07:23 PM
.....

Just remember to report specific derails, if they are really frustrating you; and we'll look at them!

Thanks

:)
Nah, it alright David, Tanya put me in a head lock, gave me a few jabs, banged my head up against a wall:B and we straightened it out... Watch out for her left hook though,.... its pretty quick!:lol:


...and now....:OFFT:

Dragonfighter1
Nov 12th 2008, 05:16 PM
Part of preparing is thinking through what you may face and the order of events as they may role out.. Also what about cash cards, is cash is gone those visa cash cards may still be usefull for a while.. any thoughts?

tango
Nov 12th 2008, 06:20 PM
Seizing control of electronic banking is likely to come before control of cash. A credit/debit card can be switched off remotely, thereby denying the holder access to its services. Cash can be hoarded indefinitely, and even if banknotes are changed (done every once in a while, largely to flush people holding large amounts of cash out of the system) it takes a while to get all the old notes changed over.

Even in a cashless society things can be bartered, silver and gold coins come to mind as an obvious medium of exchange in the absence of cash.

RoadWarrior
Nov 12th 2008, 06:29 PM
In other countries where the local currency has gone ballistic with inflation, the common street currency is the American dollar. Dollar bills are what you want to pack in your belly belt when you are going to be dealing in flea markets and with street vendors.

If such should come to this country, the street money would not be cash cards or anything controlled by the banks, but dollar bills. Fives and tens would also be good, but the dollar bills are the easiest to work with, because you don't need change.

I experienced this personally in Turkmenistan. I"m not just making it up.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 12th 2008, 06:50 PM
Ah yes, I see.

My point is those cards that you load with cash but noone knows who the owner is. Like gift cards.

If you needed to travel across the country (assuming it was possible) then individual christians credit cards may have been turned off, but gift cards wont have been, the AC isnt likely to want unnecessary unrest from the general populous.

What do you think?

third hero
Nov 12th 2008, 07:15 PM
I believe that there are several aspects that are being overlooked. God did not create islands when He sent His Son to create a new people. We are suppose to be the Saints of God. As such, we need to broaden the scope of preparation.

Remember, you will not be the only one that will be attacked. All of us will be in the same boat. As such, we will need each other even more than ever then. Christians from all denominations will have to band together and squash their differences to work together to form methods of survival.

For instance, I am open to using brute force in protecting the fleeing people as our safehavens come under attack. I still hold to this view because it is my belief that although we would have absolutely no chance of defeating the Beast before the Lord comes, we do have the ability to at least hold them back for a little while, providing the time needed for the rest of the saints to escape the safehaven that will inevitably come under attack.

As we have seen in this thread alone, there is great disagreement concerning this aspect alone, and we have not even scratched the surface on what wee have to do to preepare for the worst period of human suffering ever.

Here, I'll show you what I am talking about.

When that time comes, will we be able to store enough food for our families alone?

What about the elderly saints, th disabled, and the rest of the saints that were either unable to prepare or are stuck with no way out of the Great Tribulation other than conversion or death? Do we do nothing for them?

What about the churches? Most of them will still be unprepared for that storm. Do we do nothing, and allow the Beast and his soldiers to ransack those places and convert or kill all of the worshippers there?

Where can we go to? All of the cities are set up for us to be dependent on grocery stores. Due to the Mark, we will not be able to buy or sell anything. The houses that we "own" will be taken from us, because the only way to pay for mortgages, rent, etc is for us to lose our salvation and take the Mark. Those who refuse will lose their houses and property. Do we, the saints, stay in the cities, knowing that when the Lord returns, all of the cities of the world exceprt for two will be leveled to the ground? If the answer is yes, then how? There is no way for us to survive and folllow the commandments of God, (need I remind you that "thou shalt not steal" is one of those commmandments), and so how do we get food? How will we keep ourselves sheltered, even when the local governments will take our houses from us. What to do?

IF we are to come together and help each other by building safehavens throughout the US and the world, will they in fact be safe? The Lord has already warned us about both fighting with the sword and gathering into captivity.

If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. -Revelation 13:9-10

Well, if we gather into sfehavens, we will be captured. If we use my option of fighting back with the sword, we will be killed by the same means. ANd so, when we factor this into the equation, the question has to arise. The question is, "what do we do?"

As you can see, the potential problems in preparing for the Great Tribulation physically are incredibly difficult. And by the way, that's just the surface. There are even more problems that I have not highlighted yet.

This is why I agree with Tanya and others that say, before we can come close to being prepared for the Great Tribulation physically, we must become prepared mentally and spiritually. The scope of this preparation is not limited to individuals. The scope reaches the entire church all around the world. As easy as it is to say that we are to prepare enough food for 3.5 years, when dealing with the Great Tribulation, just storing food is not enough.

No amount of storage can be enough, because even if we build the safehavens and store food, those safehavens wil be attacked, and we will have to leave the bulk of that food behind, quickly.

Even if we use an option that I am open to, the consequence is that all who fight against the beast will be defeated.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Revelation 13:7

And on top of that, if the Great tribulation were to happen today, the churches are so fragmented that the Beast could very easily wipe all of us out. This is what I believe is the greatest threat to our survival.

As I am hoping that you see is that the amount of preparation needed to survive the greatest period of human suffering ever is so huge that no single person or family can prepare for it, not physically.

Now, how to prepare.

In my experience in having to actually look at the state of the churches and the amount of threats that we will come up against during the Great Tribulation, I have discovered something great. It is tied directly to the first day of the Great Tribualation.

When Jerusalem is attacked, the Lord will show Himself, along with 144,000 look-a-likes. He will provide the means for the Israelites to escape the massacre that the Beast will have launched against them. In fact, Zechariah 14:3 says that the Lord will fight against those nations that attacked Jerusalem. There is something that I can truly hang my hat on. When the Great tribulation starts, the Lod will not leave us hanging. He wil BE HERE, RIGHT ALONG WITH US, aiding us in the fight agianst the Beast. This brings GREAT RELIEF to me, and it should the rest of us.

In truth, we will not be prepared to face the Beast. However, with Christ on our side, we will have a chance at survival. Moreover, He will be with us, even when we are captured and forces to choose conversion or death. The Lord will lead and direct us, and even the possibility of miraculous escapes can indeed happen at that time. God will be fighting along side us until our Heavenly Father calls Him to Heaven to prepare for the final Battle. (Daniel 7:13-14, 22, 27; Revelation 14:1-4, 14-16; 15:2-4; 16:15; 19:11-21). We are not without help! God will be with us, and we have a fighting chance!

And so, if we are to prepare, the first thing we must do is become spiritually dependent of Lord Jesus. the second thing is to fight against the myriads of false doctrines that have plagued the churches for too long. Do away with things that have been plaguing the church and focus on the prayer that Lord Jesus prayed to His Father. (John 17:21). We must become one, as Lord Jesus and His Father are one. Lord Jesus does not disagree with His Father, and because Lord Jesus prayed that prayer for us, we MUST come together and pray that same prayer, and defeat the doctrines and systems that Satan has been able to set up against the church from the inside. This is the first step in our preparations. Those who are caught in the web of deception and sin, do what you must to break free from the chains of sin. Get help from your brethern. Those who are not in a church, prepare yourselves, and go to a church, one that the Lord leads you to. Do not expect to be comfortable there, because it may be a church that God has targetted to purge the sins thereof out of it, and He may end up using you to do so.

These are the first steps, but they are not the only ones, to prepare for the greatest period of human suffering ever. We have much work to do.

WOW! I'm going to take my own advice! Time for me to go find a church and become involved!

tango
Nov 12th 2008, 07:36 PM
In other countries where the local currency has gone ballistic with inflation, the common street currency is the American dollar. Dollar bills are what you want to pack in your belly belt when you are going to be dealing in flea markets and with street vendors.

If such should come to this country, the street money would not be cash cards or anything controlled by the banks, but dollar bills. Fives and tens would also be good, but the dollar bills are the easiest to work with, because you don't need change.

I experienced this personally in Turkmenistan. I"m not just making it up.

That's all well and good unless the US dollar itself experiences hyperinflation. It's hard to see how else the government is going to repay the $10,000,000,000,000 it has borrowed.

Incidentally one way the AC might flush out Christians who had the foresight to stockpile cash may be to massively inflate the currency, while allowing those people who take the mark to exchange their old currency for a new currency at the same time. So what currently costs $1 to buy costs, say, $1000 in the new currency but when you take the mark of the beast you get to change your old $1 bills for nice new $1000 bills. At a stroke the AC has effectively prevented those without the mark from buying, because their currency is worthless and their cards are frozen.



Ah yes, I see.

My point is those cards that you load with cash but noone knows who the owner is. Like gift cards.

If you needed to travel across the country (assuming it was possible) then individual christians credit cards may have been turned off, but gift cards wont have been, the AC isnt likely to want unnecessary unrest from the general populous.

What do you think?

Depends where the gift cards can be used. Some may work, although many of them will be of limited use when you need food and only have a gift card for Hallmark Cards or whatever. It's also possible they would be phased out with people told to cash them in when they receive the mark.

Either way, I still disagree with your assumption that the AC will keep its minions happy. I suspect they will be kept constantly dissatisfied, and frequently reminded how Christians seem to have something that eludes them. Hungry people are more likely to raid places that store food (e.g. churches, or Christians who have stockpiled) than well-fed people.

Saved7
Nov 13th 2008, 12:02 AM
Let's not get so caught up in surviving that we forget that it ain't over till our Lord returns. Even if every one of us is killed, christianity will not die, well not for very long anyway. Because when the last of us is (dead or raptured) gone, is when He comes back.:pp

RoadWarrior
Nov 13th 2008, 12:15 AM
Something interesting happened to me on the way home from the grocery store. The car in front of me at the stop light had this reference on their license plate frame.

http://www.surviveinstyle.net/index.html

It looks like an interesting and valuable site for all who want to know more about surviving a disaster. It seems to be new, some of the pages are "under construction" but there is valuable information. One of the links especially might be useful .. the Cove Community one.

Disasters come in many forms, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, etc. If ya'll are serious about wanting to know how to survive the GT, you might want to start with something small, and build up to the GT.

Marc B
Nov 13th 2008, 12:56 AM
I believe that those who are not able to afford this type of preparedness will be helped by those who have been led ahead of time to prepare. I am also a post tribber. I have not been led to stockpile dry goods. I have been led to learn how to grow food. We all will have our part to play, so we should all follow as the Lord leads. If you are not led to to prepare phusically, then don't. God's word tells us not to fear. So, just because others are discussing how and what to stock up, should not provoke any fear in the heart of a believer. Who knows? One day you may be grateful that another believer heeded His direction and prepared....for YOU! ;)

God Bless!

Good point! God may indeed call some to prepare so others who can't may be cared for in the wilderness. Just as God used some people during WW2 to help some Jews escape the Nazi persecution he may indeed do the same in the end days. Pray for guidance on how YOU meaning each of us should prepare and don't worry about how your brother or sister is called to prepare.

Marc B
Nov 13th 2008, 01:19 AM
Kind of OT...

As for the Y2k thing I had to laugh when I saw some tv evangelists selling survival kits in '99. I'm sorry if that offends anybody who got conned into that it's not my intention. Working with computers at the time I knew inside that the whole thing was going to be a non event and told customers who owned PCs what the big deal was about Y2k and how to fix the computer bug themselves for free without spending money on Y2k bug fix software. The only precaution I took was taking out enough cash in case there was a problem with debit machines. The y2k scare was the icing on the cake after all those apocalyptic Discovery channel type shows with their various "doomsday prophecies" about Mayan calenders and Nostrodemus and the like. :crazy:

RoadWarrior
Nov 13th 2008, 01:56 AM
Kind of OT...

As for the Y2k thing I had to laugh when I saw some tv evangelists selling survival kits in '99. I'm sorry if that offends anybody who got conned into that it's not my intention. Working with computers at the time I knew inside that the whole thing was going to be a non event and told customers who owned PCs what the big deal was about Y2k and how to fix the computer bug themselves for free without spending money on Y2k bug fix software. The only precaution I took was taking out enough cash in case there was a problem with debit machines. The y2k scare was the icing on the cake after all those apocalyptic Discovery channel type shows with their various "doomsday prophecies" about Mayan calenders and Nostrodemus and the like. :crazy:

Hi Marc,

You are right. :crazy: There is some crazy stuff out there. On the other hand, there are genuine emergencies and disasters in our country, for which it is very wise to know how to prepare. If you live in hurricane country, for example, you need to know how to be prepared, every year. Of course there you have a few days to get ready, and generally things are back to normal within a week or two ... unless there is a direct hit, or a flood such as hit New Orleans.

If your home is subject to being underwater, what you need to stock is a canoe or a motorboat and gasoline. If, like my childhood home, the biggest concern is lack of electricity for a week or two, it is much easier to be prepared for that.

I found this interesting comment on http://www.surviveinstyle.net/services-supplies-storage.html.

Security -- If others know you are making trips back and forth to this box, they may want what you have after a disaster.

Temperature consistency -- Some items are perishable and higher temperatures will shorten shelf life.

tango
Nov 13th 2008, 02:16 AM
One interesting way to look at the idea of surviving during a tribulation is to consider how you would flush out your enemies if roles were reversed. In other words think how the antichrist would go about ensuring their enemies (i.e. Christians) were eliminated.

Obviously in the case of the antichrist they don't care if we die, they would prefer us to die slowly to give us plenty of chance to renounce our faith, while at the same time they don't care if their own minions die because they are destined for hell anyway.

To stop people from buying or selling you need control of transactions. Eliminating cash is an obvious way of doing this - we can see the push away from cash around us even now. Slowly lower the threshold above which cash transactions have to be reported, with all sorts of fine-sounding justifications (anti-terror, prevention of money laundering, whatever) and the people will buy into the plan. When currency is effectively a digital medium it can be controlled ruthlessly, and inflated out of all proportion to whatever physical cash might still be tucked away under mattresses etc. When Revelation describes being unable to buy or sell without the mark of the beast, I wonder if this refers to a literal mark/implant that is checked at every transaction, or simply the fact that without "buying in" to a new digital currency people will be unable to afford to enter into even basic transactions and will have no means of accepting payment.

Since the antichrist will be given the power to perform miracles I suspect his most loyal miniions will be greatly rewarded, so others can see what is available to those who achieve. At the same time I expect the masses to be kept wanting, perhaps lacking food, heat, shelter etc to at least some degree. Then they will see that, for instance, turning in a Christian will make sure they are fed and comfortably housed for a time. Revelation says those who refuse to take the mark will be killed, but again doesn't explicitly state they will be executed - the Greek ἀποκτείνω implies being slain or killed, although whether that takes the form of being beheaded or shot, or left to starve out in the wilderness isn't entirely clear to me.

Dragonfighter1
Dec 4th 2008, 05:51 PM
With the potential financial catastrophe on the horizon, and now news that Europe may dissolve.... I think we need to pay attention to preparation issues even more.

Go to the ant o sluggard, consider her ways, in summer .......

If we think God will make food appear miraculously in places where we should have used our own wisdom then I think we are in for a shock.

Even if there isnt an antichrist appearance it would be wise to have some non perishables on hand for the bleak days ahead. Canned goods, dried beans, dried mashed potatoes, dried water(:)), premix breads.

If this is only a depression/recession we still need to use wisdom!

tango
Dec 4th 2008, 07:47 PM
News that Europe may dissolve? Where was that reported?

Can't argue with the premise for basic preparedness though.

Codger
Dec 4th 2008, 08:17 PM
I've read some of the posts on this thread and think that your thinking is way off base. First of all I don't fully subscribe to any of the "End times" Eschatologies. If you need a label for me it would be "historical - projected."

First of all it took God 4,000 years to bring about his most crowning achievement in the universe - the Cross. Next it took another 1,750 years to put the record of the Cross (the printed Bible) in the hands of the common man - who also has now learned how to read. The third step is to train the Church and get them ready for the greatest harvest the world has ever known. We are nearing the end of this training session of about 250 years. He has been harvesting all through history, but now comes the great harvest. In 1,750 the world population started to escalate from a flat 500-600 million since the days of the cross to the present level of 6.5 billion. God said he does not want any to perish and he means it. He will put so much pressure on the unbelievers - perhaps starting now - that they will begin to search for him and seek him. It's not judgment you know - it's the mercy of God that he pressures society.

Some say that we will all leave in a secret rapture - no so. Does it make any sense to you that God would pull all of the harvesters out of the field just as the Harvest is maturing? NO - our job is to work in the harvest field as many new converts will be brought into the kingdom. The best preparation that we can do is give up our preoccupation with stuff and draw closer to God. Also to continue with our studies. It has been prophesied that there will be a billion people come into the kingdom in the near future. Are you ready to mentor and teach them the ways of the Lord?

So where are you going to be? Living out in the desert with three years of food? When the economy collapses - you will have mobs ransacking your house looking for any food or valuables that they can sell. It's going to be tough, but God will be with us in miraculous ways to protect and supply us with all of our needs.

Larry

Dragonfighter1
Dec 4th 2008, 08:20 PM
I've read some of the posts on this thread and think that your thinkin........................ edit... abbreviated.....

Larry
OK Larry, Thanks, but you really need to read the O.P. before posting in this thread.
Thanks though,

DF

Dragonfighter1
Dec 6th 2008, 08:52 PM
Please read the following link..
its about a food co op that was raided by the swat team....
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/swat-team.htm

Bible2
Dec 7th 2008, 03:39 AM
To prepare spiritually for the coming tribulation,
we'll need to be obedient now, in these days. For if
we aren't being obedient now, our spiritual houses
will crumble during the tribulation (Matthew 7:26-27).

---

What should be bought/stored?

For the spirit:

A Bible (Matthew 4:4).
A hymn book (Ephesians 5:19).

For the mind:

Reading material (e.g. an encyclopedia)

For the body:

Canned food (with expiration dates years in the future)
Can openers (plural in case they go bad)
Spoons

Water bottles (glass only)
Bleach (in case water goes bad)

Sleeping bag (sturdy, with zero temperature rating)
Insulite
Tent / plastic tarps / rope / stakes

Sturdy, warm clothing & shoes
Plastic buckets to wash clothes in by hand
Detergent

Wash cloths & soap
Baby wipes (to wash with if water gets scarce)

Toilet paper (& old phone books if t.p. runs out)

Shovel to bury waste with
Plastic grocery bags to store waste in
(if ground is too hard to bury waste easily)

---

Where it might be safer to hide (wilderness) or
reside (country)?

On the internet, don't announce the location of your
wilderness/mountain hiding place (Revelation 12:6,
Matthew 24:16, Ezekiel 7:16), or the Antichrist will
find out where it is.

---

What our ministry should be?

Once in hiding: Prayer for Christians still alive
on the earth. Sharing of supplies with those in
need who might stumble upon our hiding place.

---

The Antichrist will gain power over all nations
(Revelation 13:7).

Christians will be hated and killed in all nations
(Matthew 24:9-13).

---

Christians should flee into remote, uninhabited
wilderness/mountain areas (Revelation 12:6, Matthew
24:16, Ezekiel 7:16) when they see the abomination of
desolation (Matthew 24:15).

The abomination of desolation is when the Antichrist
will sit in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim
himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:31,36).

The abomination of desolation could mark the
beginning of the Antichrist's 3.5-year Luciferian
reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18).

The Antichrist could commit the abomination of
desolation on December 21, 2012.

---

Christians shouldn't take anything with them when
they flee into the mountains/wilderness (Matthew
24:17-18). So they will need to have prepared all of
their supplies out there ahead of time (by God's
grace, Revelation 12:6). For example, they could
bury them out there ahead of time in sealed, plastic
tubs. (Once in hiding only unbury them as you need
them, so they'll stay hidden for as long as possible.)

---

Jesus could return 1,335 days after the abomination
of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15),
to gather together (rapture) the church to himself
(Matthew 24:29-31), and to destroy the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20).

---

While Jesus didn't slip away and hide from his
pending crucifixion, he did slip away and hide
from previous persecution (John 8:59, Luke 4:29-30),
and he did command Christians to flee persecution
(Matthew 10:23).

---

While Jesus commanded us not to worry about storing
supplies (Matthew 6:25), we can do so without
worrying, just as we would before a winter storm.

---

Revelation 14:12-13 refers to those in the church
who will be faced with the choice of receiving the
mark or being beheaded (Revelation 14:9-13, 20:4).

Others in the church won't face that choice because
they had fled into places in the wilderness
(Revelation 12:6) where the Antichrist won't think
of looking for them (or won't bother to), or where
God will miraculously keep them protected (Revelation
12:14-16).

Some in the church will hide out and survive against
the odds, and still be "alive and remain" at the
second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

Jesus has improved the odds of the survival of some
Christians, by limiting the length of the coming
tribulation (Mark 13:20).

---

Believers must never take up arms (Matthew 26:52) or
fight anyone, even in self-defense (Matthew 5:39).

---

It would be better for Christians not to congregate
in hiding, as this could cause them to be detected
more easily and exterminated more easily.

While in hiding, groups of at most two or three people
should be sufficient for fellowship (Matthew 18:20).

Such groups could send solo messengers to other groups
(say, within a certain mountain region) to share
information, resources, etc. But it would be best to
limit one's knowledge of the locations of other groups'
hiding places so that one won't give them away under
torture if one's own group is discovered and arrested
by the Antichrist.

---

In order to form a team of truly like-minded people,
one will need to have received the Holy Spirit for
discernment. (The Holy Spirit is usually received
through the laying on of hands; Acts 19:2,6, 8:15-17.)
For the Antichrist will infiltrate churches and home
groups with seemingly "like-minded" individuals in
order to ascertain the intended hiding places of
those churches and home groups. One will need the
discernment of the Holy Spirit to ascertain who is
an infiltrator.

One will also need the discernment of the Holy Spirit
to ascertain who is trustworthy with the knowledge of
the location of your hiding place, for even if you
tell a true Christian, their loose lips could sink
your ship, if, for example, they tell an unbeliever
at work, who then tells the Antichrist when the
persecution of believers begins. Or, even if you tell
a true Christian, they could give you up under torture.

So it would be best to tell as few people as possible
the location of your hiding place.

---

God will lead some who have the finances to store
food and water for many others who are unable to, and
to buy large, remote, uninhabited tracts of wilderness/
mountain land in which they will pre-position entire
arrays of hidden cisterns and food stashes and
underground shelters which scattered groups of
Christians will inhabit.

God will get all the credit for these prepared
places in the wilderness (Revelation 12:6), but those
who prepare them by his leading will not lose their
reward (Matthew 24:45-47).

cavscout
Dec 7th 2008, 05:34 PM
I'm sorry Bible2, but no where in the Bible does it tell us to never take up arms to defend our selves or our family. Both pieces of scripture listed, you have taken way out of context and are mearly picking one sentance out to support your claim.

My appologies for getting off topic Dragonfighter.

Gavin.

RoadWarrior
Dec 7th 2008, 06:18 PM
Please read the following link..
its about a food co op that was raided by the swat team....
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/swat-team.htm

DF, thanks for this link. It was alarming, indeed, to read that.

DH just sent me an update to the story http://steveandpaularunyan.blogspot.com/2008/12/manna-storehouse-family-update.html written by the Stowers.

Would it be of benefit for others to write to the congressman for Ohio? Seems that this needs to get the attention of the Big Dogs.

wombat
Dec 10th 2008, 03:07 PM
Hi, everyone! Here is a question related to preparing that I hope you may offer me some wisdom about. I have 3 cats that I love very much. What is the wisest and kindest thing to do for these babies of mine if there comes a time when we will be hiding out, on the run, etc? My gut feeling is that trying to pack three felines who will howl and fight and aren't trained to get along with other animals or to "be on a leash", etc., is not a workable thing. Just taking them to the vet is a nightmare! Yet I have been entrusted with their lives, and I would greatly appreciate advice. I have a feeling that those of us who have dogs will find a much easier situation, though I don't have much experience there to know for sure.

kenrank
Dec 10th 2008, 03:32 PM
I've read some of the posts on this thread and think that your thinking is way off base. First of all I don't fully subscribe to any of the "End times" Eschatologies. If you need a label for me it would be "historical - projected."

First of all it took God 4,000 years to bring about his most crowning achievement in the universe - the Cross. Next it took another 1,750 years to put the record of the Cross (the printed Bible) in the hands of the common man - who also has now learned how to read. The third step is to train the Church and get them ready for the greatest harvest the world has ever known. We are nearing the end of this training session of about 250 years. He has been harvesting all through history, but now comes the great harvest. In 1,750 the world population started to escalate from a flat 500-600 million since the days of the cross to the present level of 6.5 billion. God said he does not want any to perish and he means it. He will put so much pressure on the unbelievers - perhaps starting now - that they will begin to search for him and seek him. It's not judgment you know - it's the mercy of God that he pressures society.

Some say that we will all leave in a secret rapture - no so. Does it make any sense to you that God would pull all of the harvesters out of the field just as the Harvest is maturing? NO - our job is to work in the harvest field as many new converts will be brought into the kingdom. The best preparation that we can do is give up our preoccupation with stuff and draw closer to God. Also to continue with our studies. It has been prophesied that there will be a billion people come into the kingdom in the near future. Are you ready to mentor and teach them the ways of the Lord?

So where are you going to be? Living out in the desert with three years of food? When the economy collapses - you will have mobs ransacking your house looking for any food or valuables that they can sell. It's going to be tough, but God will be with us in miraculous ways to protect and supply us with all of our needs.

Larry

Larry, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I take issue with the cross/4000 year/ crowning achievement comment. The lamb was slain, at least in the mind of the God who knows the end from the beginning, from the foundation of the world. Both Torah and Messiah pointed toward a Kingdom on earth ruled under the authority of YHWH. (God) It has been tried and it has failed many times...and today no country lives under the authority of God. Even Israel is ruled under secular conditions. I believe the crowning achievement happens all at once (historically speaking) and that is when the Law is written on our hearts and we are made incorruptable....Messiah reigns as King...and the two split Houses (Ezk 37 and Jer 31:31-34) are united as one "Household of God." God's plan from the beginning, starting with Adam...all come together swiftly.

Of course...this just bolsters your other point...instead of 4000 years we are talking 6000....but that is OUR way of thinking. Time exists because of conditions God created....he exists outside of time.

Peace to you...and good post!
Ken

Dragonfighter1
Dec 10th 2008, 03:43 PM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:

Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

kenrank
Dec 10th 2008, 05:38 PM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.



:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:


Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

Ok...we started months ago buying dehydrated milk and vegetables. (We wanted to buy dehydrated water, but don't know what to add???) We also bought 20 chickens and are getting a dozen eggs a day. We are blessed in not having city water...so our cistern will work as a source of water (rain) where we can lower 5 gallon buckets and meet out needs. We are building an outdoor wood grill out of creek rock for cooking. We are also considering a couple of milk goats, maybe some sheep (love lamb shops)...and of course grow a garden every year where we have the ability if we were serious, to can about 200 quarts of tomatoes, green beans, and squash. Of course, growing things like butternut squash or potatoes is good because they keep for months. Lastly, we have an air tight set of 50 gallon tubs that we are in the process of filling with rice.

That is pretty much all we can do. If money flows a little better, we want to add a few solar panels to keep the freezer going...lights, etc. Our goal is to make sure our family is taken care of first...but we hope to help others as well.

Peace.
Ken

carissadawn
Dec 10th 2008, 05:49 PM
Ok. I am pretrib. But as long as I don't debate it, I can play along, too, right? :lol:
I would say find caves. Camping equipment. Fishing gear, etc.
as far as where you would go, supposing you know BEFORE the persecution, you could actually get to S. America. If it's AFTER the persecution begins, going across county and state lines will probably be a problem, let alone to other countries...seriously. Once it begins, people would be pretty much stuck in the area they are in. That's why I say find some caves, get things set up now, then when it begins, you can melt away with little attention since all the supplies you need will already be in said cave. ( Try to pick caves without bears or wild animals in them, this could be bad...)

:lol::lol::lol:

Bible2
Dec 11th 2008, 04:43 AM
The Bible does tell us to never take up arms (Matthew
26:52) or fight back when attacked (Matthew 5:39).

Both pieces of scripture referenced haven't been
taken out of context; their context doesn't change
what they so clearly say.

---

We should consider letting our pets come with us when
we flee into our prepared hiding places in the
mountains, the wilderness, at the abomination of
desolation (Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,
Ezekiel 7:16).

We should consider preparing 1,335 days of pet food
and water for our pets, for that's how long we may
need to wait between the abomination of desolation
and the second coming (Daniel 12:11-12).

(We can know the things that no man knows, through
the Holy Spirit - 1 Corinthians 2:11-13, John
16:12-13, Amos 3:7.)

Pets could be helpful to us while we're in hiding.
Dogs could hear people approaching our hiding place
before we do, giving us time to temporarily hide
somewhere else. On the other hand, dogs could give
our location away with their barking.

If they aren't in the habit of running away when
set loose outdoors, both our dogs and cats could be
allowed to roam freely around our hiding places.

---

We shouldn't count on rain as a source of water
during our time in hiding, as that time will be the
time of the two witnesses, who will keep it from
raining for 3.5 years (Revelation 11:3,6).

So we should make sure that our cisterns are full
and contain 1,335 gallons of water for each person
(a gallon a day), before the abomination of
desolation occurs.

To save water, it won't be necessary while in hiding
to take daily baths/showers. As in the old days,
bathing once a week will be sufficient to keep the
skin free of infections.

Also to save water, while in hiding it won't be
necessary to change clothes every day. As in the old
days, wearing the same clothes every day for a week
before washing them won't do us any harm at all.
But we should still change socks every day to help
avoid getting athlete's foot. Wearing sandals-and-
socks will help this as well.

We shouldn't forget to stock up on underarm deodorant,
and deodorant foot powder, and still use these every
day while in hiding, not only for the sake of other
humans around us, but also to keep strong body odor
from attracting the attention of any search dogs
downwind which may be looking for us.

A daily brushing of our own dogs, and an occasional
powder-bath, should be sufficient to keep their odor
under control and their skin and coats healthy.

We shouldn't forget to store up flea collars for our
pets, and while in hiding perform daily checks for
ticks on them (not to mention ourselves), otherwise
our pets (and we) could quickly become quite miserable
out in the wilderness.

Dragonfighter1
Dec 12th 2008, 12:45 AM
100 Items to Disappear First

From http://www.thepowerhour.com/news/items_disappearfirst.htm
1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.)
15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric)
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Goats/chickens

From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and
friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.

1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
near renewable food sources.
2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to
do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of
the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in
bulk.
6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival
guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll
have a lot of time on your hands.
7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many
people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches

RevLogos
Dec 13th 2008, 05:48 PM
These are the first steps, but they are not the only ones, to prepare for the greatest period of human suffering ever. We have much work to do.

WOW! I'm going to take my own advice! Time for me to go find a church and become involved!

This is all very good. There is something I want to add to it. There is something we are to be doing as Christians during these terrible times. There is much work to do and we have an assignment.

Remember in John 21 when Jesus asks Peter three times if he loved Him? Each time Peter says yes, and each time Jesus responds with "Feed my sheep."

Our job as Christians is to get the word out, even in these difficult times. We cannot do the Lord's work huddled in isolated Christian communities. We cannot be the salt of the earth while sitting in the salt shaker. What would be the purpose of remaining alive if we cannot do the Lord's work? Is it any more than a selfish desire to see the Lord return?

This is actually quite explicit in Luke:
Luk 21:13 This will result in your being witnesses to them.
Luk 21:14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.
Luk 21:15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.
Luk 21:18 But not a hair of your head will perish.
Luk 21:19 By standing firm you will gain life.
Luk 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Luk 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

We should prepare to flee the cities and get out into the country. I expect many of the major cities to be destroyed fairly quickly, probably by nuclear terror. In the country is where our action will be.

We will be protected by doing the Lord's work, by being among the sheep. If any of these Christian survival communities are to remain viable they will have to reach out to everyone.

White Spider
Dec 13th 2008, 09:09 PM
This is all very good. There is something I want to add to it. There is something we are to be doing as Christians during these terrible times. There is much work to do and we have an assignment.

:pp AMEN :pp

The whole purpose of surviving is not to live, but to continue spreading the word of God and saving as many as we can.

Jude
Dec 13th 2008, 10:01 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

Excellent post!

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif


To prepare spiritually for the coming tribulation,
we'll need to be obedient now, in these days. For if
we aren't being obedient now, our spiritual houses
will crumble during the tribulation (Matthew 7:26-27).

---

What should be bought/stored?

For the spirit:

A Bible (Matthew 4:4).
A hymn book (Ephesians 5:19).

For the mind:

Reading material (e.g. an encyclopedia)

For the body:

Canned food (with expiration dates years in the future)
Can openers (plural in case they go bad)
Spoons

Water bottles (glass only)
Bleach (in case water goes bad)

Sleeping bag (sturdy, with zero temperature rating)
Insulite
Tent / plastic tarps / rope / stakes

Sturdy, warm clothing & shoes
Plastic buckets to wash clothes in by hand
Detergent

Wash cloths & soap
Baby wipes (to wash with if water gets scarce)

Toilet paper (& old phone books if t.p. runs out)

Shovel to bury waste with
Plastic grocery bags to store waste in
(if ground is too hard to bury waste easily)

---

Where it might be safer to hide (wilderness) or
reside (country)?

On the internet, don't announce the location of your
wilderness/mountain hiding place (Revelation 12:6,
Matthew 24:16, Ezekiel 7:16), or the Antichrist will
find out where it is.

---

What our ministry should be?

Once in hiding: Prayer for Christians still alive
on the earth. Sharing of supplies with those in
need who might stumble upon our hiding place.

---

The Antichrist will gain power over all nations
(Revelation 13:7).

Christians will be hated and killed in all nations
(Matthew 24:9-13).

---

Christians should flee into remote, uninhabited
wilderness/mountain areas (Revelation 12:6, Matthew
24:16, Ezekiel 7:16) when they see the abomination of
desolation (Matthew 24:15).

The abomination of desolation is when the Antichrist
will sit in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim
himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:31,36).

The abomination of desolation could mark the
beginning of the Antichrist's 3.5-year Luciferian
reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18).

The Antichrist could commit the abomination of
desolation on December 21, 2012.

---

Christians shouldn't take anything with them when
they flee into the mountains/wilderness (Matthew
24:17-18). So they will need to have prepared all of
their supplies out there ahead of time (by God's
grace, Revelation 12:6). For example, they could
bury them out there ahead of time in sealed, plastic
tubs. (Once in hiding only unbury them as you need
them, so they'll stay hidden for as long as possible.)

---

Jesus could return 1,335 days after the abomination
of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15),
to gather together (rapture) the church to himself
(Matthew 24:29-31), and to destroy the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20).

---

While Jesus didn't slip away and hide from his
pending crucifixion, he did slip away and hide
from previous persecution (John 8:59, Luke 4:29-30),
and he did command Christians to flee persecution
(Matthew 10:23).

---

While Jesus commanded us not to worry about storing
supplies (Matthew 6:25), we can do so without
worrying, just as we would before a winter storm.

---

Revelation 14:12-13 refers to those in the church
who will be faced with the choice of receiving the
mark or being beheaded (Revelation 14:9-13, 20:4).

Others in the church won't face that choice because
they had fled into places in the wilderness
(Revelation 12:6) where the Antichrist won't think
of looking for them (or won't bother to), or where
God will miraculously keep them protected (Revelation
12:14-16).

Some in the church will hide out and survive against
the odds, and still be "alive and remain" at the
second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

Jesus has improved the odds of the survival of some
Christians, by limiting the length of the coming
tribulation (Mark 13:20).

---

Believers must never take up arms (Matthew 26:52) or
fight anyone, even in self-defense (Matthew 5:39).

---

It would be better for Christians not to congregate
in hiding, as this could cause them to be detected
more easily and exterminated more easily.

While in hiding, groups of at most two or three people
should be sufficient for fellowship (Matthew 18:20).

Such groups could send solo messengers to other groups
(say, within a certain mountain region) to share
information, resources, etc. But it would be best to
limit one's knowledge of the locations of other groups'
hiding places so that one won't give them away under
torture if one's own group is discovered and arrested
by the Antichrist.

---

In order to form a team of truly like-minded people,
one will need to have received the Holy Spirit for
discernment. (The Holy Spirit is usually received
through the laying on of hands; Acts 19:2,6, 8:15-17.)
For the Antichrist will infiltrate churches and home
groups with seemingly "like-minded" individuals in
order to ascertain the intended hiding places of
those churches and home groups. One will need the
discernment of the Holy Spirit to ascertain who is
an infiltrator.

One will also need the discernment of the Holy Spirit
to ascertain who is trustworthy with the knowledge of
the location of your hiding place, for even if you
tell a true Christian, their loose lips could sink
your ship, if, for example, they tell an unbeliever
at work, who then tells the Antichrist when the
persecution of believers begins. Or, even if you tell
a true Christian, they could give you up under torture.

So it would be best to tell as few people as possible
the location of your hiding place.

---

God will lead some who have the finances to store
food and water for many others who are unable to, and
to buy large, remote, uninhabited tracts of wilderness/
mountain land in which they will pre-position entire
arrays of hidden cisterns and food stashes and
underground shelters which scattered groups of
Christians will inhabit.

God will get all the credit for these prepared
places in the wilderness (Revelation 12:6), but those
who prepare them by his leading will not lose their
reward (Matthew 24:45-47).

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/cid_00b601c842d9cbc6f7d07B3DB0D7lee.gif

locboxx
Dec 15th 2008, 11:42 PM
seems to me that the Bible does not have instructions on how to prepare for the tribulation. i guess if you sincerely believe that the rapture is after the tribulation then you just gotta pray and God will provide everything else.

Dragonfighter1
Dec 16th 2008, 02:27 AM
seems to me that the Bible does not have instructions on how to prepare for the tribulation. i guess if you sincerely believe that the rapture is after the tribulation then you just gotta pray and God will provide everything else.
Actually it does...but thats not the point of this thread...
TO ALL POTENTIAL POSTERS.....PLEASE READ THE OPENING POST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

Gods Child
Dec 16th 2008, 02:15 PM
Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Let me first say, that I was one who believed that God would provide during this time, but I have felt (for the last few months) a great need to prepare. I have also noticed other Christians getting the same felling. I believe something is on the horizon and the Holy Spirit is giving direction now.

I also believe that an economic collapse is coming prior to the tribulation. This economic collapse will pave the way for the One World Government. Just call it a gut feeling.

Basic needs; Water, Food, Heat, Survival gear;

Water; Is one commodity that is heavy to carry and hard to store. It would be best to purchase a water filter that can distil river, pond, rain & pond water. The best candidate for this is a BERKEY water filter. Berkey water system comes in canister type and individual sport bottle. The reason Berkey is the choice is because it has filters that can be washed and reused. There is then no need to buy filters.

Food; Learn what wild foods are edible. There are books that you can purchase on edible wild food. If you have land, you can plant some fruit trees. Raise small animals such as chickens, turkeys & fowl. You most likely would not want to raise larger animals, as you will have to feed them during the winter and they would eat up your food supply. Learn to grow & can your own food. Which means you will need canning jars & pressure cooker, plus canning cook books. If times get hard, people will seek out your planted food source. So it is best to plant foods that most people will not recognize as food. One such food is called Millet. Millet is a whole grain, but most people would not recognize and most likely walk past it in a growing field. Mullet is also called - Amaranth Amaranthus hypochondriacus - or Giant Cockscomb as it is commonly called
http://www.chetday.com/millet.html
Food to store; Rice, Oats, wheat, beans, Flower, Sugar, dried milk; Can all be stored in used glass jars or totes/55 gallon metal drums. These foods are sought out by mice and rodents, so it is best to store them in things that mice can not get into. If you save your glass jars, you can store such items in them. Of course you will also want to store other items such as oil, but you can learn to make your own lard out of animal fat. Purchase Cast iron cookware, as these can be used on open fires. Purchase items such as; Non electric items such as; Hand crank grain mill, can openers and vintage utensils. A grain mill can be used to make many wild plants into a flour base for cooking. Consider raising honey bees. Not only will you get honey, but the wax can be used to make candles and many other useful items. Learn to cook with solar; This is done with a FRESNEL LENS which is a type of magnify glass. These magnify glasses can cook food, but they are also great at starting a fire when you do not have matches; The advantage to a Fresnel lens is you do not have smoke from a fire that would give your location away. PARABOLIC Solar Mirror also can be used for the cooking process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhZrZ7Naw_c&watch_response
Open fires & Wood burning stoves can also be used for cooking, but you need cast iron cookware.

Heat; Wood burning stoves; Solar & Wind turbine can run a lot of useful items, such as lights, refrigerator and low energy space heaters. Sleeping bags, Wool blankets & hunters heat (hand warmers) packs will help. A hunter hand warmer can be placed into your sleeping bag and give up to 7 hours of warmth. If you have land, you should plant trees for firewood. One of the best trees is a Popular tree. The reason for a Popular tree is because it is a fast growing hardwood and when you cut it down it will re-grow again for a latter cutting.

When people think of energy survival they think of things like; Solar, Wind to produce energy. There are other avenues to look into. One is a STIRLING ENGINE (aka; heat engine or Ericsson air engine), which has been around since the 1800, but not known by most people. These engines run on air.
Another is; BIOGAS DIGESTER is another form to produce energy; A Biogas digester can be built using simple items. What a Biogas Digester does is turn organic material into methane gas used for cooking and heating. The organic material used can be human or animal waste & plants.
Steam Engine can be made out of local hardware.
RIVER OR WATER TURBINE for electricity – (Microhydro or Hydro electricity)
ELECTRO MAGNETIC ENGINE – Use of magnets for power.

www.youtube.com is a great place to see many of these energy alternatives in action.

Also see;

http://greenpowerscience.com/

Survival web site; I don’t think this is a Christian site, but does give some insight.
http://www.endtimesreport.com/

Gods Child
Dec 16th 2008, 02:37 PM
seems to me that the Bible does not have instructions on how to prepare for the tribulation. i guess if you sincerely believe that the rapture is after the tribulation then you just gotta pray and God will provide everything else.

If God is trying to tell you to prepare, then you should take heed. Perhaps God sent you here to tell you something? Perhaps he is telling you to prepare as he did Joseph.

God does provide, but many times he used his own people to provide the means. Such in the case of Joseph;. Joseph stored the food in the storehouses, but it was God who told him to do so. I feel that this will be the case for the Endtimes. God will tell his people to prepare for the years of famine. Those who prepare will be sought out by those who did not prepare. Joseph gave food to his brothers because they were family.

It reminds me of the Childhood story of the Little Red Hen. She prepared, but the cat, goose, and rat did not want to help her plant the wheat, cut and thresh the wheat, take this wheat to the mill, carry the wheat home or help her make bread BUT they all wanted to eat the bread. She did not let them eat, but gave the bread to her chicks (family).

Do you see the moral of the story? ...You see The Little Red Hen's chicks didn’t help either, but since they were family she let them eat.
We as Christians are Family…..SO YOU CAN EAT MY BREAD when the time comes.

third hero
Dec 17th 2008, 08:29 AM
This is all very good. There is something I want to add to it. There is something we are to be doing as Christians during these terrible times. There is much work to do and we have an assignment.

Remember in John 21 when Jesus asks Peter three times if he loved Him? Each time Peter says yes, and each time Jesus responds with "Feed my sheep."

Our job as Christians is to get the word out, even in these difficult times. We cannot do the Lord's work huddled in isolated Christian communities. We cannot be the salt of the earth while sitting in the salt shaker. What would be the purpose of remaining alive if we cannot do the Lord's work? Is it any more than a selfish desire to see the Lord return?

This is actually quite explicit in Luke:
Luk 21:13 This will result in your being witnesses to them.
Luk 21:14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.
Luk 21:15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.
Luk 21:18 But not a hair of your head will perish.
Luk 21:19 By standing firm you will gain life.
Luk 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Luk 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

We should prepare to flee the cities and get out into the country. I expect many of the major cities to be destroyed fairly quickly, probably by nuclear terror. In the country is where our action will be.

We will be protected by doing the Lord's work, by being among the sheep. If any of these Christian survival communities are to remain viable they will have to reach out to everyone.

Not only do I agree with you, I acknowledge that these times will be even more timultuous than what any of us can imagine. I had started a similar thread a long time ago, and from all of the posts that I have read, I have come to this conclusion.

1. Until we become as Lord Jesus prayed for us to be, (John 17:20-21), we do not have a chance at surviving the Great Tribulation.

2. No matter how much one prepares, it is our duty as believers to help each other. With that in mind, no amount of preparation will be enough.

3. We will be face with some very difficult decisions, and those decisions have every bit as much relevance as surviving th Great Tribulation.
a) We will have to keep spreading the Gospel, even when it would prove to be fatal.
b) We will have to grow our own food, and build safe havens, and attempt to create some sort of defense force; even though those places will eventually be found, and infiltrated by the Beast's minions, and those who raise their swords against the beast will be cut down by them....

And these are bit the very tip of the humongous iceburg.

This is why we need to continue the dialogs that forums like this one give us, because in my not-so-professional opinion, until we get problem number 1 solved, we do not stand a chance.

Here's the problem with solving problem number 1. It takes all of us to empty ourselves of our belief structures and honestly seek after and listen to the teachings of the Holy Spirit. This is difficult, because everyone says that they are seeking and listening to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, and yet we are not one, as Lord Jesus and His Father are one. We have, even in this forum, POV's that wildly differ, even amongst those who hold to the same set of doctrines. In truth, it will take the Holy Spirit to lead a group of people to the entire church, and show the truth that the Bible clearly speaks. And even then, quite a few people will be offended, and will not take heed to the Lord's instructio, thinking that they are correct, even when the Holy Spirit teaches otherwise. Truly, this is a quandry that I find to be the main stumbling block of all believers, and one that I do not have a solution for, with the exception for commitment to prayer, and a self-imposed resolve to take to heart only the things that the Lord show me, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Dragonfighter1
Dec 17th 2008, 12:02 PM
TO ALL POTENTIAL POSTERS.....PLEASE READ THE OPENING POST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD..

This thread is about preparation... NOT anything else. PLEASE read the OP. Please read the OP. PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.PLEASE read the OP.


We are not discussing whether preparing is valid or not..go find another thread if you wish to debate the merits of that issue.

Gods Child
Dec 18th 2008, 02:33 AM
Dragonfighter1

I am very interested in this tread on how to prepare and I have listed some ideas on the previous page. I don't know if you saw it.

I would like to hear your ideas and I would also like to hear other peoples ideas on how to better prepare.

My sister gave me a web site today that she said has a lot of non-electric items. Items that the Amish uses. She lives were there are a lot of Amish and they told her. So she got a catalog and found their web site; It is;

http://www.lehmans.com/

I just looked at the site briefly, but it does give you ideas.

possumliving
Dec 20th 2008, 06:32 AM
Let's see, I've got to go to bed shortly and haven't read all of the posts yet but let me put my 2 cents worth in.

In 1991, I asked God to show me where there was a safe place for the end times and someone to make it through it with.

We moved.

My hubby died this Sept. Just prior to that, he introduced me to the man that God has provided for such a time as this.

We are both in agreement that it's time.

We have both been told to prepare for 12 people.

My question is this? Why all the speculation? Why haven't you been praying for God to direct you to that 'safe place'.

Neither one of us believes that we will make it entirely through the trib. I was asked to be willing to die for the sake of the Gospel if need be when I was called to ministry.

In our church, it's a new church....are the 'remnant'. Those who have come through fiery ordeals and kept the faith. More are coming. Those are whom God has said to help to get prepared.

Surprisingly, I don't believe our pastor is among those that is ready to hear the truth. And it is not time to bring it up yet. He's still in denial.

But, in God's time, all things will be ready for as long as we need.

Steph

possumliving
Dec 20th 2008, 06:55 AM
Kind of OT...

As for the Y2k thing I had to laugh when I saw some tv evangelists selling survival kits in '99. I'm sorry if that offends anybody who got conned into that it's not my intention. Working with computers at the time I knew inside that the whole thing was going to be a non event and told customers who owned PCs what the big deal was about Y2k and how to fix the computer bug themselves for free without spending money on Y2k bug fix software. The only precaution I took was taking out enough cash in case there was a problem with debit machines. The y2k scare was the icing on the cake after all those apocalyptic Discovery channel type shows with their various "doomsday prophecies" about Mayan calenders and Nostrodemus and the like. :crazy:

Hmmm,

Well, when I prayed about the Y2K craze here's what the Lord told me.

He said that He was using it to get His church out of complacency and to stir them up and get them to look around and see what was really going down.

Also, it provided information that we've lost over a couple of generations and was made available to those that would listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

It got those that depended upon their wealth, the government and society to start seeking God. In others words, it was a wake-up call!

So, if you didn't bother to listen then, and you think everybody was crazy....

Steph

Gods Child
Dec 22nd 2008, 03:09 AM
In my earlier post I mentioned getting animals if you have land. I forgot to tell you if you are going to get animals, make sure that you get animals that are NOT registered. Perhaps buy them from the Amish....Here is why....

My sister lives in a farming community. A friend of hers bought a registered goat. After she purchased the goat the state sent her a letter asking her if she had any other animals and what kind she had. The letter told her that she had to register all her animals and that her animals needed to be bio chipped.


Could this happen to you....

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/swat-team.htm

possumliving
Dec 22nd 2008, 07:45 AM
Wow, I didn't know they were inforcing that yet. I thought it was just for horses.

Steph

quiet dove
Dec 22nd 2008, 08:35 AM
In my earlier post I mentioned getting animals if you have land. I forgot to tell you if you are going to get animals, make sure that you get animals that are NOT registered. Perhaps buy them from the Amish....Here is why....

My sister lives in a farming community. A friend of hers bought a registered goat. After she purchased the goat the state sent her a letter asking her if she had any other animals and what kind she had. The letter told her that she had to register all her animals and that her animals needed to be bio chipped.


Could this happen to you....

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/swat-team.htm

I don't mean to offend with this, but is her friend raising animals for slaughter or pets or what? Just curious if this extends to the regular Joe with pet cows, horses, goat and or who.

Thanks

Studyin'2Show
Dec 22nd 2008, 11:28 AM
I don't mean to offend with this, but is her friend raising animals for slaughter or pets or what? Just curious if this extends to the regular Joe with pet cows, horses, goat and or who.

ThanksI believe it's for food. Even if you don't slaughter them you can get milk and eggs. :D

possumliving
Dec 22nd 2008, 09:17 PM
It doesn't matter if it's for food or pets. NAIS is to have every animal registered this year, that's the deadline. Mandatory registration.

And APHIS is in there somewhere.

Llamas, horses, goats, poultry, sheep, etc.

quiet dove
Dec 23rd 2008, 12:12 AM
By the end of 2008 or 09?

Just what I need, advalorem (however you spell it) taxes on my weed eating goat.:rolleyes:

Studyin'2Show
Dec 23rd 2008, 12:10 PM
It doesn't matter if it's for food or pets. NAIS is to have every animal registered this year, that's the deadline. Mandatory registration.

And APHIS is in there somewhere.

Llamas, horses, goats, poultry, sheep, etc.That's kind of weird. Why would they need to keep tabs on all our animals unless they really want to keep tabs on our food supply? :hmm:

Dragonfighter1
Dec 23rd 2008, 03:22 PM
Thanks for that info. Lets not go too far of topic though....OK?
Thanks
DF

quiet dove
Dec 23rd 2008, 08:54 PM
Thanks for that info. Lets not go too far of topic though....OK?
Thanks
DF


OH!, there's a topic, :eek:

Sorry, we got carried away

Gods Child
Dec 24th 2008, 02:57 AM
I don't mean to offend with this, but is her friend raising animals for slaughter or pets or what? Just curious if this extends to the regular Joe with pet cows, horses, goat and or who.

Thanks


I think that she was getting the goats for milk, but I'm not sure. I don't think it matters if they are for slaughter or for a pet. They want to know who has what and where.

I know that my sister said that the lady got a registered goat. I didn't know that there was such a thing as a registered goat, but I guess there is. A registered animal is one that you have reported to the state and got registered. Then when you sell one, you have to report that you sold it and who you sold it to. When the lady bought the registered goat, then they must have put her on a list of owning farm animals. Then they wanted to know what kind and how many other farm animals she had.

What I am saying is if you purchase a farm animal, then make sure that who ever you bought it from did not register their animals, otherwise you will be put on the governments list too.

We live in the USA...Do we not? The Government has no business as to what animals or what food we grow. It is suppose to be our land and our business. Isn't that what being free is suppose to be about. Not anymore.

Sorry, didn't mean to steal the tread, but I think this is important news and something we should know if we are talking about being prepared.

quiet dove
Dec 24th 2008, 03:28 AM
We are a little off track, however, I agree, for all the folks that are trying to prepare and be self sufficient, which is going to require at least some live stock, like for milk, and or meat. Going to require growing gardens. They need to know these things and be prepared. Some people may want chickens for eggs, thats an easy protein source, and a good one.

possumliving
Dec 24th 2008, 05:40 AM
By the end of 2008 or 09?

Just what I need, advalorem (however you spell it) taxes on my weed eating goat.:rolleyes:

Honey, as far as I remember (the pdf file was on another hard drive so I no longer have it available) It was mandatory and enforceable by mid 2009.

possumliving
Dec 24th 2008, 05:49 AM
That's kind of weird. Why would they need to keep tabs on all our animals unless they really want to keep tabs on our food supply? :hmm:

Yeah, keeping track of the food supply is exactly waht they are trying to do.

On a previous thread...

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=74820&highlight=NAIS

So, you guys if you plan on buying livestock of any kind, be aware that it is actually considered "black market" to buy and animal or raise it without registering either your animals or your property with the state.

And if they do find out that you have it, they can come in gestapo style and kill them or take them away at gun point and will be within their rights. They will make up some kind of 'diseased animal' reason to evacuate your food supply.

be careful who you share you info with.

Steph

quiet dove
Dec 24th 2008, 05:50 AM
Honey, as far as I remember (the pdf file was on another hard drive so I no longer have it available) It was mandatory and enforceable by mid 2009.

I just don't know what to say about this registration business, other than, bummer. My animals are not for food, but they are my babies.

Dragonfighter1
Jan 7th 2009, 02:00 PM
THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:

Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

sunsetssplendor
Jan 7th 2009, 05:45 PM
Maybe we should come together in strategic locations and combine all of our goods? I think going at this solo could be detrimental. JMO

Dragonfighter1
Jan 7th 2009, 06:11 PM
Maybe we should come together in strategic locations and combine all of our goods? I think going at this solo could be detrimental. JMO
Thats a valid Idea. It may be difficult to do if the web is down as we wont be able to contact each other thru here... but it would be smart to connect into groups.... even if its not the endtimes mark of beast time.... the global crisis could lead to social breakdown in as little as 3 months from now. (VERY unlikely though)..

Once the oil tankers stop arriving the turmoil will start,... then we will have about 3 months to get our reaction plans in place.... too late to plant a garden then!

sunsetssplendor
Jan 7th 2009, 06:47 PM
The Bible does tell us to never take up arms (Matthew
26:52) or fight back when attacked (Matthew 5:39).

Both pieces of scripture referenced haven't been
taken out of context; their context doesn't change
what they so clearly say.

---

We should consider letting our pets come with us when
we flee into our prepared hiding places in the
mountains, the wilderness, at the abomination of
desolation (Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,
Ezekiel 7:16).

We should consider preparing 1,335 days of pet food
and water for our pets, for that's how long we may
need to wait between the abomination of desolation
and the second coming (Daniel 12:11-12).

(We can know the things that no man knows, through
the Holy Spirit - 1 Corinthians 2:11-13, John
16:12-13, Amos 3:7.)

Pets could be helpful to us while we're in hiding.
Dogs could hear people approaching our hiding place
before we do, giving us time to temporarily hide
somewhere else. On the other hand, dogs could give
our location away with their barking.

If they aren't in the habit of running away when
set loose outdoors, both our dogs and cats could be
allowed to roam freely around our hiding places.

---

We shouldn't count on rain as a source of water
during our time in hiding, as that time will be the
time of the two witnesses, who will keep it from
raining for 3.5 years (Revelation 11:3,6).

So we should make sure that our cisterns are full
and contain 1,335 gallons of water for each person
(a gallon a day), before the abomination of
desolation occurs.

To save water, it won't be necessary while in hiding
to take daily baths/showers. As in the old days,
bathing once a week will be sufficient to keep the
skin free of infections.

Also to save water, while in hiding it won't be
necessary to change clothes every day. As in the old
days, wearing the same clothes every day for a week
before washing them won't do us any harm at all.
But we should still change socks every day to help
avoid getting athlete's foot. Wearing sandals-and-
socks will help this as well.

We shouldn't forget to stock up on underarm deodorant,
and deodorant foot powder, and still use these every
day while in hiding, not only for the sake of other
humans around us, but also to keep strong body odor
from attracting the attention of any search dogs
downwind which may be looking for us.

A daily brushing of our own dogs, and an occasional
powder-bath, should be sufficient to keep their odor
under control and their skin and coats healthy.

We shouldn't forget to store up flea collars for our
pets, and while in hiding perform daily checks for
ticks on them (not to mention ourselves), otherwise
our pets (and we) could quickly become quite miserable
out in the wilderness.

You had me until the bolded. Sometimes when I come in here I feel as if I've stepped into a sci-fi channel.

sunsetssplendor
Jan 7th 2009, 07:05 PM
I would not think America safe at all. First, our country will economically fall. Then, it's only going to get much worse. We have done so much evil in the world, allowed so much evil here within our borders, the harshest judgment will be upon our country. Just as the whole world's eyes have been upon us for so long for leadership. Our enemies are many, believe it or not, and our weakest moment is yet to come. We have had our chance. Our country was set aside for God's Glory, yet has been judged and found wanting miserably.
Third world countries will be the safest place possible.

.

I have family in a third world country and I'm no so sure about this advice. They are already starving and fighting for every little morsel of food so if we go there, with our stockpile, it's only a matter of time before the natives attack. JMO.

sunsetssplendor
Jan 7th 2009, 07:11 PM
For those whose spouses/children are not Christian..

Do you still plan to hide in the wilderness? Would you take your spouse/child with you? Do you think that your spouse would receive the mark of the beast and then provide for you and your family or would they listen to you and refuse to get it and then try to survive with you? I think that my husband will be quick to get the mark and that he would try to provide for me for a short time, but I think that eventually he would turn me in. I suppose if I felt that his allegiance was turning and had time to get out, I could try to hide, but I have a daughter with special needs. Yes, I trust that if God wanted me to flee that he will also provide for her needs and health (of course, I believe that her health is in His hands anyway), but it certainly would make things more difficult.

As far as physical prep..I am trying to "stockpile" a small amount....not for getting through the tribulation, but just because the price of food keeps rising and when I can find canned goods on sale, I try to add to my pantry for harder times ahead.

I would definitely take my children. If my spouse did have the mark I would sneak off without him. Why would I take him to my hide-out? Of course if he knew about the hide-out and hadn't converted there'd be a problem then.

sunsetssplendor
Jan 7th 2009, 07:27 PM
Just going to throw out my 2 cents :2cents:

I am not sure how much has been said exactly.

What should be bought/stored?

Nothing that can't be put in a backpack and easily carried. (Knives, Backpacking clothing, rope, water containers, flint, binoculars, etc.)

Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?

Somewhere virgin, in that I mean untouched by mankind. Most likely mountainous regions in the Americas. Africa/Australia has lots of wilderness. (Somewhere survivable, but as extreme as you can handle. The more extreme the more difficult for anyone else.)

What our ministry should be?

Trust in the Lord! - Ask for the strength to deal with the times. - Fear not!


~ Things you can do now.

- Buy a couple survival books. (Practice and learn.)
- Pray

And what about wild animals? I doubt your hunting knife will slay a lion.

shepherdsword
Jan 7th 2009, 07:28 PM
The best way to prepare is to draw close to Jesus. We must daily take up our cross and follow him. The only way we can endure what is about to happen is by his grace. No amount of preparation in the natural will suffice. While it is wise to have some can goods and bottled water on hand it is wiser still to remember that God our Father is our provider. I not just talking some hyper-spiritual babble. The reality is that the war will be a spiritual one and the overcomers will be those that achieve the victory through the Spirit.

The verse "and they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved their lives not unto the death" isn't just my opinion.
It's the Word of God

quiet dove
Jan 8th 2009, 01:33 AM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:

Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

We are getting off track again, back to OP

quiet dove
Jan 8th 2009, 01:34 AM
I do think there was some good points raised to consider though, about the registration of animals and that known food supplies could be raided and confiscated is definitely something for you guys to consider.

Gods Child
Jan 8th 2009, 01:37 AM
THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.


:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:

Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

I have posted some things on this tread and also on a similar thread at;
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=151784

What should be bought/stored?

There is a whole long list of things that might be needed; It really depends if you will be on the run or able to live somewhere safe.
I think it would be best to prepare for both.
If you will be on the run, you will have to pack what you can carry. If you can live somewhere safe, then you can stockpile. I think it will be different for each individual.

Some items to be bought/stored would be;
Quick run backpack,...What you can carry

Stock pile items;
Food, water &/or water Filter, shelter, Warm Clothes/boots/gloves/socks, off the grid items (wood stove, solar, wind, turbine...etc), ax, tools, hunting/fishing, Batteries, Flashlights, Lantern & Oil, Gas, medical/hygiene, Paper & plastic products (trash bags/food bags, toilet paper, famine items, diapers (or cloth for these items) kitchen ware (Cast iron, hand operated items;grinder/can opener...etc), canning/cooking/garden/survival books, Canning jars & Save all used class jars for food storage, buckets/drums/plastic tubs to store food & items Sewing items, Bolts of Fabric for many uses. A old fashion peddle sewing machine would be ideal.

I think we should assume that we would not have electric or heat. So we should plan accordingly. For instance, you can not open a can with a electric can opener if you do not have electric. Take notes from the Amish as to how they do things. Many vintage items that they used before electric (non-electric tools and appliances). Also you can buy crank flashlights & crank radio. There are many survival web sites for ideas.

Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?

This question can not be answered as to the safety level maybe different for every area. The only one who can answer this question is God for the needs of each person at that time. I truly believe that God is setting shelters up right now. Some of his people will have the shelter available at that time and God will send those in need when the time comes.

What our ministry should be?

Up until the Mark of the Beast our ministry wills still be the same; The kingdom of God - The Great Commission.
At the time of the Mark of the Beast; Try to keep those who had not received it from getting it...with the salvation message. Many Christians will be tempted into thinking about taking it when the pressure is on...Remind them what the outcome of that action would mean.

When the world will be in total negative, then preach of the positive of the everlasting life with Jesus.

895rider
Jan 8th 2009, 04:03 AM
I've given the idea of preparing for the tribulation times a lot of thought over the years but haven't done any preparation yet. I guess the main reason is that I was never in a position to stockpile the requisite items before and also because the jews haven't rebuilt their temple which I believe is a pre-requisite for the ac to appear in to declare himself to be god.
With that out of the way, I think it impractical for many people to flee to some far off wilderness. Too young/old, no survival training etc. Alternatively, it may be possible to hide in plain site in a small town. Particularly a small town in the bible belt, but other locations may work as well. Maybe a small town where the economy is in decay with lots of vacant housing. Poor economy equals a broke local govt which means less harassment from the local sheriff. I'm thinking of a mild climate but if not then the house would need to have a wood burning stove and lots of forest nearby for cutting. The house should have a good sized yard for growing vegetables, blackberries and apples and raising chickens/goats. A fresh water well and a basement for storing food/supplies. A river nearby would be great for fishing and backup water supply.
Anyway, just some random thoughts.

tango
Jan 8th 2009, 01:03 PM
I've given the idea of preparing for the tribulation times a lot of thought over the years but haven't done any preparation yet. I guess the main reason is that I was never in a position to stockpile the requisite items before and also because the jews haven't rebuilt their temple which I believe is a pre-requisite for the ac to appear in to declare himself to be god.
With that out of the way, I think it impractical for many people to flee to some far off wilderness. Too young/old, no survival training etc. Alternatively, it may be possible to hide in plain site in a small town. Particularly a small town in the bible belt, but other locations may work as well. Maybe a small town where the economy is in decay with lots of vacant housing. Poor economy equals a broke local govt which means less harassment from the local sheriff. I'm thinking of a mild climate but if not then the house would need to have a wood burning stove and lots of forest nearby for cutting. The house should have a good sized yard for growing vegetables, blackberries and apples and raising chickens/goats. A fresh water well and a basement for storing food/supplies. A river nearby would be great for fishing and backup water supply.
Anyway, just some random thoughts.

The trouble is a broke local govt probably means a corrupt sheriff rather than no trouble from the sheriff. If the government is broke and you're in plain sight with your own ready-made supply of vegetables, blackberries, apples and livestock then you're also a target for anyone who can't (or can't be bothered to) grow their own food.

If you're going to prepare I still think you need to either be ready to eat things that most people don't consider food (to reduce competition for supplies), or grow things in a remote location so it's not readily apparent what's there. In the context of preparing for the tribulation of the end times you're probably better off growing whatever you can under tree cover, so it's invisible from above as well.

895rider
Jan 8th 2009, 03:56 PM
I don't see how it necessarily follows if the local govt is broke then the sherriff is corrupt. Share some of your produce with him, make him your friend., contribute to his reelection campaign.
Besides things don't grow under cover of trees, except maybe blackberries. Other vegetables mainly need full sunlight to grow.

tango
Jan 8th 2009, 03:58 PM
If the government is broke and there isn't enough money to pay the sheriff, the sheriff is going to have to make his income some other way. It's not a 100% certainty, although in the great tribulation I would wonder whether things like reelection are going to be on the minds of a one-world government.

A lot won't grow under cover of trees, but if we're working on the assumption that the minions of the antichrist are trying to flush us out I just don't think hiding in plain sight is going to be a viable option.

895rider
Jan 8th 2009, 04:44 PM
I don't see going into the wilderness as a viable option. Again, too young/old with no survival skills. The ac's minions will be looking for you in the back woods. There may be bounty on your head.

Or, It may turn out that the country you live in it won't be a crime to be a christian, maybe you just won't be able to buy or sell anything. If that is the situation then hiding in plain site in a small town with your own house/garden/livestock might work out ok. No one knows how things will unfold, we'll just have to wait and see. Besides this is all years away since the jews haven't even started rebuilding their temple yet.

TexasBeliever
Jan 8th 2009, 04:47 PM
I'm sorry this is off topic ( about how to prepare physically) but I just need to speak my peace.
I have been struggling terribly with the question of how to survive this period. My husband is not a believer so I fear even he will become my enemy in those days.
And I don't have the $$$$ to prepare, if it's even possible.
I read in this thread how some reminded us that Jesus dosen't mention anything but spiritual preparation and that must be for a reason.
Somewhere in Revelation it says, refering to believers; "Those who are DESTINED to die by the sword shall die by the sword and those DESTINED for captivity shall go into captivity. This is WHY the SAINTS must have PATIENT ENDURANCE."
We must be prepared for THIS. If we are not, our faith and courage may fail us.

Also I believe that our collective suffering and death will be seen on CNN and will be a witness to the world to THE TRUTH and will even help others sitting on the fence to regain their courage and faith.
Jesus said that He would not come back to judge the world until the "number of our brothers to be slain was completed." So our deaths, at some point in time, actually bring the Lord to the earth. Even if we are to suffer and be killed, we are actively participating in the coming of the Lord.

895rider
Jan 8th 2009, 05:07 PM
Good point, and thanks for reminding me.
Maybe the correct approach then is to do what you can to prepare and not to worry about what you can not do.

sunsetssplendor
Jan 8th 2009, 05:15 PM
I'm sorry this is off topic ( about how to prepare physically) but I just need to speak my peace.
I have been struggling terribly with the question of how to survive this period. My husband is not a believer so I fear even he will become my enemy in those days.
And I don't have the $$$$ to prepare, if it's even possible.
I read in this thread how some reminded us that Jesus dosen't mention anything but spiritual preparation and that must be for a reason.
Somewhere in Revelation it says, refering to believers; "Those who are DESTINED to die by the sword shall die by the sword and those DESTINED for captivity shall go into captivity. This is WHY the SAINTS must have PATIENT ENDURANCE."
We must be prepared for THIS. If we are not, our faith and courage may fail us.

Also I believe that our collective suffering and death will be seen on CNN and will be a witness to the world to THE TRUTH and will even help others sitting on the fence to regain their courage and faith.
Jesus said that He would not come back to judge the world until the "number of our brothers to be slain was completed." So our deaths, at some point in time, actually bring the Lord to the earth. Even if we are to suffer and be killed, we are actively participating in the coming of the Lord.

I don't think I could do captivity. Lord help us.

Bible2
Jan 9th 2009, 09:19 AM
During the coming tribulation, Christians shouldn't come together in
strategic locations and combine all of their goods, as this would only
make it easier for their enemies to locate and exterminate them, and
steal all of their goods.

---

During the coming tribulation, Christians will be hated and some
killed in every nation (Matthew 24:9-13).

---

While some Christians will be killed by the Antichrist (Revelation
13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4), other Christians will flee into wilderness
places and be protected during his 3.5-year world-reign (Revelation
12:6,14-16, cf. 13:5,7).

sunsetssplendor
Jan 9th 2009, 05:48 PM
I've been thinking about this ever since I read this thread.
For those of you who say we are not to take up arms what will you do when the AC and his minions come into your home and try to take your children? Are you going to stand there and try a "peaceful" approach?

tango
Jan 9th 2009, 05:52 PM
I've been thinking about this ever since I read this thread.
For those of you who say we are not to take up arms what will you do when the AC and his minions come into your home and try to take your children? Are you going to stand there and try a "peaceful" approach?

It's likely that long before then the keeping of firearms will be outlawed.

895rider
Jan 10th 2009, 02:09 AM
While some Christians will be killed by the Antichrist (Revelation
13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4), other Christians will flee into wilderness
places and be protected during his 3.5-year world-reign (Revelation
12:6,14-16, cf. 13:5,7).

I know this is what the bible says, that people will flee into the wilderness, I live in the US and it's just hard to imagine 10 million christians finding hiding spots in the wilderness here in America.

Anyone have any thoughts on how so many people could find shelter in a nation that seems so crowded? Sure there are plenty of wilderness places around but anything in the northern half of the country is so cold in the winter it would seem to be impracticle

White Spider
Jan 10th 2009, 02:13 AM
I live in the US and it's just hard to imagine 10 million christians finding hiding spots in the wilderness here in America.

I also live in the United States and would have to say it's hard to believe there are 10 Million Christians strong enough in faith to flee when the beast arises.

We Americans are so used to having everything so well, I hope the "Christians" here are what they say they are, but I fear so many are outward Christians and not inward Christians and when the day comes that fact will be shown.

I hope I am wrong.

895rider
Jan 10th 2009, 02:27 AM
Yes I hear what you are saying, but then again I've read that something like 80% of American claim to be christians. And with the difficult economic times now and probably more so when the tribulation comes more christians will be returning to the faith. Of course it could be that many are deceived when the ac comes as well.

Hard to imagine people being put to death in America, but it might be a long time off before the tribulation period, who knows what might happen to peoples faith by that time

HisLeast
Jan 10th 2009, 02:35 AM
Yes I hear what you are saying, but then again I've read that something like 80% of American claim to be christians. And with the difficult economic times now and probably more so when the tribulation comes more christians will be returning to the faith. Of course it could be that many are deceived when the ac comes as well.
I've heard the same statistics but have no idea where it comes from. In my opinion the statistic represents the # of people who IDENTIFY with Christianity, be it only in a vague social connection.

My state (Illinois) is almost 5% of the total population, yet you can barely talk about your faith without anti-Christian secular culture screaming bloody murder.


Hard to imagine people being put to death in America, but it might be a long time off before the tribulation period, who knows what might happen to peoples faith by that time

I try not to take anything for granted. I've always known that all it takes is the right mix of circumstance for people to take the gloves off and start killing each other. Its happened all over the world, and it can happen here. I guess what differentiates me from most is that I believe it can happen here without it actually being the end times (or at least the end of the end times). That is to say, if your family gets killed in Somalia... well thats just life. If your family gets killed in the US, everyone is rushing to their bibles to see how it fits in with eschatology.

895rider
Jan 10th 2009, 02:52 AM
Agreed, people have been slaughtering each other since Cane.
I suppose when it comes down to taking the mark or going without food many will take the mark. Then there will probably bonus points for turning in family friends and strangers.
Even though it says christians will be killed for not taking the mark doesn't mean it will happen here in America. It may be that you will be taken into captivity or maybe as simple as you won't be able to buy or sell. It doesn't have to happen the same in each country in order for the scripture to be fulfilled.
I often wonder if these difficult economic times will lead to the rise of the ac. That's the way it was when Hitler came to power.

Studyin'2Show
Jan 10th 2009, 09:05 PM
I know this is what the bible says, that people will flee into the wilderness, I live in the US and it's just hard to imagine 10 million christians finding hiding spots in the wilderness here in America.

Anyone have any thoughts on how so many people could find shelter in a nation that seems so crowded? Sure there are plenty of wilderness places around but anything in the northern half of the country is so cold in the winter it would seem to be impracticleThere are actually a LOT more empty spaces than many think. They don't usually have cable, or dsl, or electricity so people don't tend to gravitate to those areas. People gravitate toward the cities. However, when survival is at stake, whether a place has cable or not won't be as important as staying alive. ;)

As for the number of people who will be hiding, many people (both Christian and non) will die. Not from the AC but from disease and the like. One of the ways I believe we can prepare ourselves (other than spiritually) is by learning how to do things like hunting, fishing, foraging, purifying water and things like that, and teaching our children how to do so. I'm one that although I will be ready if it does happen in my lifetime, I'm not expecting it.

possumliving
Jan 12th 2009, 06:50 AM
I don't see going into the wilderness as a viable option. Again, too young/old with no survival skills. The ac's minions will be looking for you in the back woods. There may be bounty on your head.

Or, It may turn out that the country you live in it won't be a crime to be a christian, maybe you just won't be able to buy or sell anything. If that is the situation then hiding in plain site in a small town with your own house/garden/livestock might work out ok. No one knows how things will unfold, we'll just have to wait and see. Besides this is all years away since the jews haven't even started rebuilding their temple yet.

2 Kin 6:14 So [the Syrian king] sent there horses, chariots, and a great army. They came by night and surrounded the city.
2 Kin 6:15 When the servant of the man of God rose early and went out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was around the city. Elisha's servant said to him, Alas, my master! What shall we do?
2 Kin 6:16 [Elisha] answered, Fear not; for those with us are more than those with them.
2 Kin 6:17 Then Elisha prayed, Lord, I pray You, open his eyes that he may see. And the Lord opened the young man's eyes, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
2 Kin 6:18 And when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, Smite this people with blindness, I pray You. And God smote them with blindness, as Elisha asked.
2 Kin 6:19 Elisha said to the Syrians, This is not the way or the city. Follow me, and I will bring you to the man whom you seek. And he led them to Samaria.
2 Kin 6:20 And when they had come into Samaria, Elisha said, Lord, open the eyes of these men that they may see. And the Lord opened their eyes, and they saw. Behold, they were in the midst of Samaria!
2 Kin 6:21 When the king of Israel saw them, he said to Elisha, My father, shall I slay them? Shall I slay them?
2 Kin 6:22 [Elisha] answered, You shall not slay them. Would you slay those you have taken captive with your sword and bow? Set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink and return to their master.
2 Kin 6:23 So [the king] prepared great provision for them, and when they had eaten and drunk, he sent them away, and they went to their master. And the bands of Syria came no more into the land of Israel.

wombat
Jan 12th 2009, 02:38 PM
Hi, everyone! I saw an interesting article today from the Sunday Times regarding barter as a possible way to live without money. The writer didn't approach the subject from the point of view of trying to stay alive during a terrible time of tribulation, but I'm sure there are lots of ideas that might stem from this. Here's the link.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5488528.ece

Dragonfighter1
Jan 12th 2009, 03:44 PM
There is no doubt that the disabled and the elderly may well die because they are no longer able to defend or be mobile.
Physical capabilities will be necessary for many escape plans. Do we abandone those who are disabled or elderly? NO! But those who are neither and can escape should do so. Should they expect to survive long in the outback of America while the AC hunts them down. Probably not, most will be ill prepared and found easily.

However, the mission isnt to escape. Lets be clear the mission is to keep evangelizing... which is hard to do if your dead. (or in prison).

So I say be ready to survive- for the mission is important.

Dragonfighter1
Jan 12th 2009, 09:04 PM
http://www.endtimesreport.com/Surviving_in_the_City.html

I read this. Its fascinating... Even if its not the end times this is practical planning for people who are disabled or non mobile etc...

well worth the time to read.

DF

P.S. Yes, even moonglow will get something of value from this!:lol:

moonglow
Jan 12th 2009, 09:20 PM
http://www.endtimesreport.com/Surviving_in_the_City.html

I read this. Its fascinating... Even if its not the end times this is practical planning for people who are disabled or non mobile etc...

well worth the time to read.

DF

P.S. Yes, even moonglow will get something of value from this!:lol:

Well thanks for that horribly long article...maybe someone else can put it to use cause I ain't going anywhere. ;)

I honestly see no point in even trying to survive under these kinds of conditions...I would rather be home with the Lord. :)

God bless

Dragonfighter1
Jan 12th 2009, 09:33 PM
Sorry moonglow, I wasn't trying to post this ONLY for the endtimes and I did not say it very well. I was posting for "difficult times" which we have coming for the next few years, and staying in the city which you indicated is necessary for you. I though towards the end of the artical there were some useful pointers you could use.


All the best,
DF

shepherdsword
Jan 13th 2009, 06:30 AM
LOL:rofl:

WE really are a "peculiar people"


Back to topic:
I'm going to stock up on can goods,dry goods and bottled water.

I think I'll probally use it during the aftermath of a hurricane rather than the trib though:idea:. Unless the trib comes in the next two years;)

MLC
Jan 13th 2009, 08:45 AM
I'm a "post tribber", but a think many of my fellow post-trib friends are taking this whole thing the wrong way. Some of you are talking about how you should go out into the wilderness, areas where there aren't large populations of people, and just have little gardens and so on. Maybe for some of you that is the right thing, but only if it is God's will. For many of you, that will not be God's will. It won't be to run to the wilderness, but to go to the cities and proclaim the truth. It won't be to grow gardens, or store up food and water, it will simply be trust in God that he will provide. You should have nothing to fear with the trib, no anxiety, even if you die, then you died within God's will. Now, i'm not being critical saying you guys wouldn't do that, (as in trust in God) but i just thought we all need to remember it is not what we plan for our future, but what God plans. What we plan is always flawed. What God plans is always perfect.

tango
Jan 13th 2009, 10:13 AM
LOL:rofl:

WE really are a "peculiar people"


Back to topic:
I'm going to stock up on can goods,dry goods and bottled water.

I think I'll probally use it during the aftermath of a hurricane rather than the trib though:idea:. Unless the trib comes in the next two years;)

Be careful with bottled water - most bottled water nowadays comes in a plastic bottle. If you leave it in a plastic bottle for too long I understand the chemicals from the plastics can leach into the water, making it less safe (and potentially unsafe) to drink.

moonglow
Jan 13th 2009, 03:49 PM
Sorry moonglow, I wasn't trying to post this ONLY for the endtimes and I did not say it very well. I was posting for "difficult times" which we have coming for the next few years, and staying in the city which you indicated is necessary for you. I though towards the end of the artical there were some useful pointers you could use.


All the best,
DF

It would be impossible for me to leave...would actually cause me more stress and problems though. I know this town and if I went somewhere else I would be lost and not know where to go if I needed help though. With the physical pain I am in most days...this would cause me more pain..with more pain I am less able to do much of anything. I have always lived in difficult times frankly...you try living off a disability check! Among other things which would take a book to write...

God is taking care of me...we live in a nice house that is paid for...I get enough money to pay my bills...just can't throw any wild parties...:lol: I have been totally dependant on Him for many years now and think I probably need to keep depending on Him no matter what.

But I DO appreciate you thinking of me...that is sweet. :hug:



tango:
Be careful with bottled water - most bottled water nowadays comes in a plastic bottle. If you leave it in a plastic bottle for too long I understand the chemicals from the plastics can leach into the water, making it less safe (and potentially unsafe) to drink.

That reminds me I want to get a glass pitcher to make my son's kolaide in.. After that study came out of finding all sorts of chemicals in even babies bodies...many from drinking out of something made of plastic, I found that rather frightening! They even found rocket flue in their little bodies! :eek:

I had gotten everything plastic when he was little due to kids breaking things you know and now he is older I think I need to start getting cups made out of glass and pitchers made out of glass to reduce some of this junk we get in our systems on a daily basis...

God bless

White Spider
Jan 13th 2009, 09:41 PM
I don't know much, just heard it referenced on CNN.

Apparently Bush and Obama are preparing for a doomsday scenario.

Perhaps they know something we don't.

(Perhaps it is just regular stuff, but I don't know yet, thought I'd mention it.)

RevLogos
Jan 14th 2009, 03:34 AM
I don't know much, just heard it referenced on CNN.

Apparently Bush and Obama are preparing for a doomsday scenario.

Perhaps they know something we don't.

(Perhaps it is just regular stuff, but I don't know yet, thought I'd mention it.)

Are you referring to this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090113/ap_ca/bush_obama_national_security

This is probably just prudence and good practice.

I have heard a theory that Al Qaeda has planted nuclear bombs in several major cities and is holding Bush hostage (and now Obama). The rationale is that some people have noticed a big change in Bush's leadership in his second term. In his first term he was in front of the cameras all the time giving speeches and press conferences defending the war. In his second term he all but quit defending the war in Iraq and pretty much stayed away from the press.

Possible, but the evidence is really weak.

possumliving
Jan 14th 2009, 05:25 AM
I don't know much, just heard it referenced on CNN.

Apparently Bush and Obama are preparing for a doomsday scenario.

Perhaps they know something we don't.

(Perhaps it is just regular stuff, but I don't know yet, thought I'd mention it.)

PBS showed the entire speech...Everybody here ought to be watching PBS news, it shows a lot that is not on the networks and stuff.

however, and this is not an exact quote, Bush stated that when he came into office, his economic advisors told him that we were on the verge of a depression that would be worse than the Great Depression.

And although I believe that he did a lot to try and stay that eventuality, and Obama will too...with all that has happened with Enron, the oil speculators and now the commodities speculators and the housing bubble bursting...there's nothing they can really do to change it. We will hit a complete bottom.

I was told once by a fella that was nicknamed Little Hitler (he was from Germany) that the only thing required for people to take the mark of the beast would be for America to go bankrupt and our people would be willing to give up their freedom for security. That was back in the late 80's.

Since that time, I have seen one peice of legistlation after another to ensure that we would end up in this exact predicament.

The New Agers want a utopia and their idea of utopia is along the lines of John Lenins "Imagine". What will it take for that to happen?

Steph

tango
Jan 14th 2009, 10:50 AM
however, and this is not an exact quote, Bush stated that when he came into office, his economic advisors told him that we were on the verge of a depression that would be worse than the Great Depression.


I can believe it. I realised in about 2004 that the economic situation was entirely unsustainable and sooner or later we'd see a huge collapse in the marketplace. Of course back then most people didn't want to hear it and assumed I'd lost the plot.

From reading a few writers who look at things like Elliott waves and Kondratieff waves there's a lot of thought out there that this one could be much worse than 1929.



And although I believe that he did a lot to try and stay that eventuality, and Obama will too...with all that has happened with Enron, the oil speculators and now the commodities speculators and the housing bubble bursting...there's nothing they can really do to change it. We will hit a complete bottom.


There's only so much that governments can do about it. Just like if someone is very overweight the only way to fix the problem is to exercise and eat less, so if someone is deeply in debt the only way to fix it is to either declare bankruptcy or stop spending and start paying down debts. Our problem is that we have such huge levels of debt at personal, corporate and government level.

If the government is going to pay its debts it has to either massively raise taxes (political suicide) or cut back on public spending (also political suicide) or devalue the currency. Devaluing the currency hurts everybody in a country where most things are imported.



I was told once by a fella that was nicknamed Little Hitler (he was from Germany) that the only thing required for people to take the mark of the beast would be for America to go bankrupt and our people would be willing to give up their freedom for security. That was back in the late 80's.

Since that time, I have seen one peice of legistlation after another to ensure that we would end up in this exact predicament.


Even now, in the UK at least, I see people more than willing to give up their liberties in the chase for elusive security. The regular mantra is "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear", but time and time again legislation is misused so that even those with nothing to hide definitely have a lot to fear.

I think it was Jefferson who said that when the government fears the people you have liberty, when the people fear the government you have tyranny.

JesusMySavior
Jan 16th 2009, 04:38 AM
Even though it says christians will be killed for not taking the mark doesn't mean it will happen here in America. It may be that you will be taken into captivity or maybe as simple as you won't be able to buy or sell. It doesn't have to happen the same in each country in order for the scripture to be fulfilled.
I often wonder if these difficult economic times will lead to the rise of the ac. That's the way it was when Hitler came to power.


I think Americans will be taken captive before being killed on the spot. The reason I believe this is because of the appearance of F*M* camps (like female but without the "le"; i'm trying to keep away search results and secret spying). They are gigantic facilities that have absolutely no purpose or activity at this time but are extremely advanced with barracks, gates, and cells - yet nobody knows what they are for. They look scarily like concentration camps. There are watch towers and barbed wire pointing IN (in some areas four levels deep) as well as train stops and lines for people to line up. Next to the train tracks there is an area called the "RED ZONE". All of the trains have the U.S. Military logo on them and the areas are top secret. There are industrial heaters to keep multitudes alive and warm, and the doors are all high-security metal with giant turnstile-type gates (like you'd see at disney world but 7-8 feet tall). They are all in abandoned areas and are supposed to be old abandoned warehouses but there's definitely something governmental going on there. The people who filmed it were being watched closely by black helicopters flying overhead, which came out of nowhere.

If you don't believe me you can find the videos on youtube...

There are literally dozens upon dozens popping up all over the country, in or near subburbs of major cities.

If they are for Christians and those who refuse the "New World Order", I'm guessing the train tracks are the death row of that place, either for throwing bodies or for beheadings. I don't know for sure - maybe it's all just coincidence, but what I do know is that God will get us through it no matter what. I must say, my fellow saints in the Lord Jesus, the pieces are coming together.


Sorry if that was a bit OT.

RevLogos
Jan 16th 2009, 05:00 AM
There are literally dozens upon dozens popping up all over the country, in or near subburbs of major cities.



Not dozens but if I recall, but there is a list of some 600 sites floating around the Internet.

I got a hold of the list a few years ago and randomly picked out a few sites that were well enough described that I could find them in Google Earth. Couple examples: One was in the desert outside Florence, AZ. Another was next to a water treatment plant in CA. It was described as a large fenced in area and within was a huge berm so no one could see inside. No doubt hiding nefarious activities.

The one in AZ turned out to be a well known federal prison.

I found the water treatment plant in CA and discovered what was inside the berm. A man made lake that was part of the water treatment plant.

So I dug around the Internet further and found forums like these where other people had done the exact same thing I had done and most of these sites have been looked at by the more skeptical. Not a one was real. Most were well known prisons, or dumps, recycle centers, or water plants or other places that one might expect to be fenced in. Some didn't exist at all.

Believe what you want but be skeptical and do some serious investigating on your own.

White Spider
Jan 16th 2009, 04:14 PM
Are you referring to this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090113/ap_ca/bush_obama_national_security

This is probably just prudence and good practice.

I have heard a theory that Al Qaeda has planted nuclear bombs in several major cities and is holding Bush hostage (and now Obama). The rationale is that some people have noticed a big change in Bush's leadership in his second term. In his first term he was in front of the cameras all the time giving speeches and press conferences defending the war. In his second term he all but quit defending the war in Iraq and pretty much stayed away from the press.

Possible, but the evidence is really weak.

Yes, that was what I was talking about, looks like it is just normal preparedness. :cool:

If the U.S. is being held hostage why hasn't someone called Jack Bauer? ;)

(Sorry if the Jack Bauer is over some peoples heads, he's a TV Show character. Counter Terrorist . . . has saved the world 6 seasons in a row now. :D Always deals with stuff like this, in fact this current season is basically this scenario except an African Dictator is the one holding the President hostage with a device that could kill millions.)

iWrecknSow
Jan 17th 2009, 05:36 PM
"THIS IS ONLY FOR POST TRIBBERS... WE ARE NOT DEBATING THE PRE-POST ISSUE!!! THIS THREAD IS:

EXCLUSIVELY TO DISCUSS:- HOW TO PREPARE.



:no:If you dont think we need to prepare, PLEASE DO NOT POST!:no:


Looking for specific discussions and ideas on how to live effectively during those times. ...Please answer the following questions and discuss the merits of prior posts in this thread..

What should be bought/stored?
Where it might be safer to hide(wilderness) or reside (country)?
What our ministry should be?

We are trying to run a VERY lean thread about PRACTICAL methods for PREPARING for and MANAGING THROUGH the TRIB. We all recognize that standard Christian activities need to continue as much as possible. This is about NON STANDARD practical preparations and activities during those times.

Im a definate post tribber. Ive stored small amounts of food and at times i wonder if this pecks away at my faith. I look at the creation week and a day is as a thousand years and come to the conclusion that we are to get ready for the trib period. On the 6th day we are to prepare our food so as we rest on the sabbath (1000 yr period of rest). We are coming to the end of that 6th day. I live in a very small town but believe when the time comes we must even farther distance ourselves from those who do not believe. The foods i store are ones that are dry and that can be prepared by adding water. Theres plenty of water here. Lakes, river and best of all springs that come straight out the ground.

Im not sure i understand the question, what should our ministry be?

I do believe the stuff you store up should all be light and very easily transported to where you may have to go.

Dragonfighter1
Jan 17th 2009, 11:23 PM
Im a definate post tribber. Ive stored small amounts of food and at times i wonder if this pecks away at my faith. I look at the creation week and a day is as a thousand years and come to the conclusion that we are to get ready for the trib period. On the 6th day we are to prepare our food so as we rest on the sabbath (1000 yr period of rest). We are coming to the end of that 6th day. I live in a very small town but believe when the time comes we must even farther distance ourselves from those who do not believe. The foods i store are ones that are dry and that can be prepared by adding water. Theres plenty of water here. Lakes, river and best of all springs that come straight out the ground.

Im not sure i understand the question, what should our ministry be?

I do believe the stuff you store up should all be light and very easily transported to where you may have to go.
Love your screen name....

There are two thoughts on this... one its up to God to take care of us.. all we need do is trust him. SOme who hold that position are dear friends of mine so I NEVER make fun of that position. FOr example one of them is severely disabled and couldnt do anything to prepare except pray and trust. The other school of thought is that those who can prepare should prepare, and should also prepare for people like those who cant prepare for themselves.
There are several sites I have visited for preparation info.

here's a few:

I really like:the box of bug out info. its about making a bug out backpack... http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,6022.0.html

Also food storage: http://www.foodshortageusa.com/index.html

an "OK" site: http://www.endtimesreport.com/Surviving_in_the_City.html

US Army survival info: http://www.equipped.org/fm21-76.htm

Practical wishlist?: http://www.majorsurplus.com/ViewWishlist.aspx?WishlistId=5179

What will disappear first: http://www.thepowerhour.com/news/items_disappearfirst.htm

My best advise to you is.....
.....FIRST: DO NOT BECOME A CONSIPRACY THEORIST
.....SECOND, BE PRACTICAL. spending endless money on possible scenarios is silly.

If God is not guiding you thru prayer then you are definitely NOT on the right track.. have you prayed and asked for guidance? His answer will include who, what, where, when, how, and how much... (not that you will hear his voice per se, but he will guide your thoughts!)

I was led by prayer to include someone from this site I have never met to be able to get to her and help her escape with her child. She is a nay sayer so I don't think the look on her face will be anything but hilarious when she is disparate for food and then my wife and I show up to protect her!

That'l be a trip !!! lol

Ask another question, I'll try to answer...
Others definitely will, this is a great site. Lots of respectful disagreement leads to much and vastly more accurate thinking!

Gods Child
Jan 18th 2009, 04:55 AM
My brother in law is a truck driver. A few weeks ago my brother in law told me that in NJ he saw a very long barred train. He said that they looked like they were planning for a lot of people and he wondered what it was about. He said it didnít look like it was for cattle, but like it was for people.

A few days ago, I ran across these videoís of FEMA concentration camps and that they have trains that run right to them.

Was it just a coincidence that my bother saw them and then I found these videoísÖ.Makes me wonder if there is a connection?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n0VIpqGQuA&feature=PlayList&p=B59C4C10EC3692E1&index=93

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZZHrr5ZMA&feature=PlayList&p=B59C4C10EC3692E1&index=94

Dragonfighter1
Jan 18th 2009, 08:08 PM
I've seen those videos before. It may or may not be something to worry about. Lets stick to the purpose of this thread though....
How to prepare, things to watch out for etc...

Thanks,
DF

cavscout
Jan 19th 2009, 01:04 PM
Another thing to consider when planning is conserving what you have. By this I mean, don't start dipping into your "hard times" supply until it is absolutely necessary. Things will get tough before they get hard, but you will still be able to survive from day to day without using your supplies. Do this for as long as you can. It will make you stores that much more valuable when you really need them.

tango
Jan 23rd 2009, 12:38 AM
How to improve it? Make the text a little bigger, I could hardly read it (I'm not that old either!). What I could read made sense....

Dragonfighter1
Jan 23rd 2009, 02:57 AM
Ill try again tomorrow. Its not allowing me. Ill have to spend some time on it....

Later,
DF

Dragonfighter1
Jan 23rd 2009, 05:50 PM
Try this version.. let me know.

Dragonfighter1
Jan 24th 2009, 02:36 PM
Try this version.. let me know.
OK! The one below works fine.

Give it a spin and tell me if you can think of any additional data that can be added. Someone already mentioned disease development issues...

ANyone see other ideas?

DF

Bible2
Jan 26th 2009, 05:29 AM
When the Antichrist's police and military forces come into the homes
of Christians and try to take them and their children, Christians don't
have to just stand there; they can try to flee with their children
(Matthew 10:23). But Christians can never resort to violence to
defend themselves (Matthew 5:39, 26:52).

Christians can avoid the Antichrist's forces coming into their homes
and taking them and their children, by fleeing into secret hideouts in
the wilderness, the mountains (Revelation 12:6, Matthew 24:16,
Ezekiel 7:16), when they see the Antichrist commit the abomination
of desolation (Matthew 24:15), which is when the Antichrist will
attack a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, stop the Mosaic animal
sacrifices performed in front of it, and then sit in the temple and
proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

It's at this point that the Antichrist will begin his 42-month Luciferian
reign of terror over the earth (Revelation 13:4-18), when he'll make
war against Christians worldwide and overcome them (Revelation
13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), that is, overcome
those Christians who didn't flee into the wilderness before the 42-
months (or 1,260 days) of the Antichrist started (Revelation 12:6).

Christians could find themselves trapped in the cities when they see
the abomination of desolation, because of roadblocks or because of
curfew-drones patrolling overhead and armed to shoot to kill. In this
case, Christians will need a Plan B: a secret hiding place that they'll
have built within or underneath their home. False walls could be built
to conceal these hiding places in the basement or the attic, or in a
closet under the stairs. Or underground hiding-chambers could be
dug under the floor of the basement or under the ground floor (if
no basement) and then concealed with a trap door covered by a rug.

Then, when the Antichrist's forces come into a neighborhood and
start knockng on doors to search for and arrest any Christians,
instead of opening the door, Christians can go into the hiding
chamber in their house and stay real quiet. When the Antichrist's
forces finally give up on knocking and break down the door and
search the house, if the entrance to the hiding chamber in that
house is well concealed, the Antichrist's forces won't discover it,
and will leave scratching their heads wondering where the people in
that house went.

Right before going into their hiding chamber, Christians could open
the back door of their house and leave it open, so that the
Antichrist's forces will think that the people in that house must have
slipped out the back door.

tango
Jan 26th 2009, 04:17 PM
OK! The one below works fine.

Give it a spin and tell me if you can think of any additional data that can be added. Someone already mentioned disease development issues...

ANyone see other ideas?

DF

The list looks interesting except for the "what should I do?". Once the stage of "severe social breakdown" is reached there's little point in even thinking about the "bug out" strategy - the chances are someone else will already have taken up residence in your safe house and I don't honestly think the average person could hide much so thoroughly that desperate people passing near it would never find it. If you happen to live in an area that's mostly wilderness you're less likely to need to escape, and in an urban/suburban area there are very few places you can hide things of any size such that they are not easily seen or found.

Preparation for the varying stages looks fine but it's important to be realistic about what is going to work and what isn't. Bugging out may just about work for an individual but throw in anyone who isn't fairly fit, older people, children etc and the whole approach falls apart.

I'm not trying to derail the thread with questions about whether planning is worthwhile, more looking to say that if your plan is to bug out and hide in a safehouse somewhere you need to be there before everything turns sour.

tango
Jan 26th 2009, 04:26 PM
Christians could find themselves trapped in the cities when they see
the abomination of desolation, because of roadblocks or because of
curfew-drones patrolling overhead and armed to shoot to kill. In this
case, Christians will need a Plan B: a secret hiding place that they'll
have built within or underneath their home. False walls could be built
to conceal these hiding places in the basement or the attic, or in a
closet under the stairs. Or underground hiding-chambers could be
dug under the floor of the basement or under the ground floor (if
no basement) and then concealed with a trap door covered by a rug.

Then, when the Antichrist's forces come into a neighborhood and
start knockng on doors to search for and arrest any Christians,
instead of opening the door, Christians can go into the hiding
chamber in their house and stay real quiet. When the Antichrist's
forces finally give up on knocking and break down the door and
search the house, if the entrance to the hiding chamber in that
house is well concealed, the Antichrist's forces won't discover it,
and will leave scratching their heads wondering where the people in
that house went.

Right before going into their hiding chamber, Christians could open
the back door of their house and leave it open, so that the
Antichrist's forces will think that the people in that house must have
slipped out the back door.

Your post was good up to this point. If the agents of the antichrist come to our homes I don't honestly think they'll simply scratch their heads and figure we slipped out the back if they don't find us. The technology exists now to watch for people moving around from a helicopter so they will know we didn't slip out the back door. They may figure we were out when they came calling but I suspect they will have other ways of figuring all isn't what it seems.

Don't forget that once you are the other side of your hidden door it's going to be very hard to re-hide the door. If it's a trapdoor under a rug you can't straighten the rug over the top of it, if it's a secret door inside an inner wall you can't move the piece of furniture back in front of it, and so on. It may well be possible to construct a suitably hidden room that you can live in for some time, but to assume the agents of the antichrist are bumbling fools who will look around briefly and then give up is, I think, a dangerous mistake to make.

awestruckchild
Jan 26th 2009, 05:20 PM
To the op-
I just read a fiction book by Pat Robertson. First of all, I never knew he was post trib or that he had written any fiction, but secondly, in case you haven't read it, you might like it!
Cool thread by the way, even to a pre-tribber like me!:)

Bible2
Apr 4th 2009, 07:51 AM
One shouldn't wait until a stage of severe social breakdown is
reached before one flees into one's hideout in the mountains/the
wilderness (Revelation 12:6, Matthew 24:16). For once the stage of
severe social breakdown is reached armed gangs could have set up
roadblocks to prevent anyone from leaving the cities without being
robbed of everything they've got, including all of their precious
gasoline in the tanks of their cars. Or even if armed gangs are put
down by national guard or army troops, under martial law, all travel
beyond the cities could be prohibited as a waste of gasoline, and all
personal supplies of gasoline (including in the tank of one's car)
could be commandeered for emergency use only by military, police,
fire department, and food and water-delivery vehicles, and by
electricity generators for hospitals and prisons, including emergency
"security compounds" set up in sports arenas and parks to corral
apprehended looters and anyone else deemed a proven or even a
potential "threat to civil order".

Whether one makes it out of the cities before or after severe social
breakdown is reached or total martial law is instituted, the chances
of someone else already having taken up residence in one's hideout
in the mountains/the wilderness will be reduced for every mile that
that hideout is removed from the cities, and for every measure that
one has taken to camouflage one's hideout. For example, if one's
hideout is in a remote, uninhabited area where few would expect to
find any food, water, or shelter, and one's hideout is underground
with an entrance well-hidden by brush, few people would bother to
go out that way, and even if they did, they wouldn't even know
that one's hideout was there. So when one reaches it, one will have
a very good chance of finding it undisturbed and the surrounding
area uninhabited by any refugees from the cities.

Another way to improve the odds of one's hideout not being found
by someone else before one has reached it is to have it miles away
from the nearest road. If one had a temporary dirt road installed for
purposes of the construction of one's hideout, this dirt road could
be totally destroyed after the construction of one's hideout is
completed by ravines being dug across the road with bulldozers and
large boulders or trees placed across the road at regular intervals.
Of course, one will have to make such roadblocks appear as natural
as possible so people passing by won't see them and think "boy,
someone must be trying to block vehicle access to something up
that way". And, of course, once the road is destroyed, one won't be
able to supply one's hideout by vehicle anymore. So one will want to
make sure that one's hideout is fully stocked and ready to go before
one has to flee to it.

Generally, one's hideout should be completely prepared with supplies
ahead of time, so that one won't be carrying any supplies with one
when one flees to it. This will not only permit one to have a hideout
miles from the nearest road, but will permit one to flee from the
cities immediately, with just the clothes on one's back, at the first
sign of trouble: "flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the
housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take
any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn
back again for to take up his garment" (Mark 13:14b-16).

One will want to park one's car many miles from one's hideout, for
one's car will give the location of one's hideout away to anyone
who sees it, or anyone who can tap any GPS chip in one's car. But
parking many miles away will mean a very long walk, which could be
quite difficult for anyone in one's company who isn't fairly fit, or who
is very old, an infant, or unable to walk for extended distances for
whatever reason, such as pregnancy. This is why Jesus said: "woe
to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those
days!" (Mark 13:17). One's walk, not to mention the very long drive
preceding it, could also be hindered by bad weather. This is why
Jesus also said: "And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter"
(Mark 13:18).

If one is unable to escape the cities, when the time comes that the
Antichrist's police come knocking on one's door, because of the
great expense of operating helicopters, not all of the Antichrist's
police may be accompanied by helicopters hovering overhead and
watching if anyone flees out the back door. So leaving one's back
door open before one goes into one's hiding place within one's house
could still give the Antichrist's police the idea that one has fled.

Once one is in one's hiding place in one's house, it doesn't have to
be very hard to hide the entrance to the hiding place. If it is a
trapdoor under a rug, the trapdoor can be in the corner of a room,
with the corner of a room-sized rug resting naturally on top of the
trapdoor. When one opens the trapdoor to enter into one's hiding
place, the corner of the room-sized rug will rise with the trapdoor,
without the rug itself shifting out of place. Then when one enters
one's hiding place and closes the trapdoor, the rug will simply lower
back down into place along with the trapdoor.

If the entrance to one's hiding place is a hatchway cut into an inner
wall and hidden by a panel which looks like part of the wall, the
hatchway should be down near the floor and just big enough for one
to crawl into, so that once one has crawled in, one can pull a small
piece of furniture against the wall to hide the hatchway before one
closes the panel behind one.

No one has assumed that all of the Antichrist's police will necessarily
be bumbling fools who, once they have broken into a house of
Christians to arrest them, when they find the house seemingly-empty
will only look around briefly and then give up. They could search
every room, including the attic and basement, and open every closet
and cupboard. But they may not have the time or the zealousness
to move every piece of furniture away from every wall and tear up
every rug from every floor and then search every inch of every wall
and floor for any cracks which could possibly form the outline of a
trapdoor or the wall-panel of a hatchway. (That's why even today,
to save a lot of time and energy, FBI agents, who are usually not
bumbling fools, when they search a house they ask anyone familiar
with it if it has any secret compartments.)

Of course, any of the Antichrist's police who have unlimited time and
zealousness and resources will be able to find anyone hidden in a
secret compartment in or under a house. They could bring in dogs
specially trained to find just such people by sniffing them out, or they
could employ microwave cameras which can see through walls and
floors, or they could bring in wrecking crews to sledge-hammer
through any internal walls behind which could be a secret
compartment, or they could bring in a bulldozer and completely break
down the house and dig underneath it. But if the Antichrist's police
won't have unlimited time and zealousness and resources, then there
is still the chance that one could manage to escape being arrested by
the Antichrist's police by hiding within a secret compartment in or
under one's house. But this should only be a Plan B, if for some
reason one has been thwarted from fleeing the cities entirely to go
and hide in a place prepared way out in the mountains/the wilderness.

tango
Apr 4th 2009, 10:22 AM
The thing is it doesn't take very long to move furniture away from walls and lift rugs. If you want to do it carefully such that the items concerned can be put back again it takes time, if you're searching a house for something and don't care about causing damage it's very quick.

It also doesn't need to be universal. Your idea of pulling a piece of furniture back against a hidden door is all well and good, but it has to be a small piece of furniture or it wouldn't work - you're not going to pull a fully loaded wardrobe back into place using a piece of rope from behind a tiny trap door. And unless your rooms are truly enormous you can only put so many rugs down.

If you could dig a tunnel from under a basement such that you could escape into nearby woodland that might work, otherwise hiding in a tiny secret chamber only provides short-term reprieve based on the assumption that the agents of the antichrist will search the house and then leave. What if they decide they rather like the house and want to live in it themselves? Sooner or later you have to come out of your hidden chamber. Look at the way Mugabe has seized white-owned farms in Zimbabwe to see how it could pan out.

moonglow
Apr 5th 2009, 01:40 AM
Here's a thought...IF a government or other group is planning to round us up...wouldn't they be reading threads like this to start with to see what we were planning?

And listening to any Christians radio stations talking about it and checking out any books about surviving the trib, etc.

I would if I was them...


God bless

quiet dove
Apr 5th 2009, 04:28 AM
Here's a thought...IF a government or other group is planning to round us up...wouldn't they be reading threads like this to start with to see what we were planning?

And listening to any Christians radio stations talking about it and checking out any books about surviving the trib, etc.

I would if I was them...


God bless

Here's another thought, how do we know that aren't?

Bible2
Apr 5th 2009, 07:52 AM
It can take a long time, and a lot of effort, to move every piece of
furniture in a house away from every wall and to lift up every rug,
even if one doesn't care about putting anything back in its place.
The Antichrist's police may simply not have the time, nor the
motivation, to do all that work, especially if they have been tasked
with quickly rounding up the Christians in an entire city with many
thousands of houses.

No Christian should assume that his or her city will be spared. During
the Antichrist's 42-month reign, he will be given power over the
entire world and make war against Christians and overcome them
(Revelation 13:5-10, 14:12-13, 20:4); Christians will be hated and
killed in every nation (Matthew 24:9-13). So every Christian needs
to prepare for what is coming.

One's Plan A should be to flee into a hideout prepared beforehand in
the mountains/wilderness (Revelation 12:6, Matthew 24:16). If for
some reason one is unable to flee before the Antichrist has taken
over one's city and blocked all egress from it, one needs to have a
Plan B hiding place prepared within or underneath one's own house,
so that when the Antichrist's police storm one's neighborhood from
house to house to arrest all Christians, one hopefully will be so hard
to find in one's house that the Antichrist's police will give up looking
after awhile and move on to the next house.

If the hiding place is behind an interior wall, there is no need to give
it an entire door-sized entrance. One can give it only a small
hatchway entrance down near the floor just big enough to squeeze
through. The hatchway can be covered with a panel which looks like
it's just part of the wall. In order to hide the cracks around the
perimeter of the panel, once one is inside one's hiding place one
can reach out from the hatchway and move a small piece of furniture
up against the hatchway before one replaces the wall-panel from
within. At the same time, a tapestry could also be hung on the wall
above the panel in order to help hide it from view. The tapestry
could simply be pushed aside as one enters the hatchway, and then
fall back into place once one is inside.

If the hiding place is underneath a trapdoor in the floor, there is no
need to place many rugs over it. One can simply leave a regular wall-
to-wall rug in place over it.

If one chooses not to hide in one's house, but instead to dig a
tunnel from under one's house so that one can escape when the
Antichrist's police come to the door, the best thing would be to have
one's car parked right by the exit of the tunnel, so that one could
then drive to one's hiding place in the mountains/wilderness. But the
exit of the tunnel would have to be on a different street than one's
house is on, if one wanted to have a better chance of the
Antichrist's police not seeng one exit the tunnel and enter one's car.
And even if one managed to slip away in one's car from the
Antichrist's police storming one's own street, one could still be
caught by other of the Antichrist's police at a roadblock down the
road.

If one has no car at the end of the tunnel, one would then have to
walk the streets and hope that one isn't stopped. And even if one
can avoid streets and detection because one lives near some wild
area with lots of cover, one would still have to hope that one can
walk to some safe place that has shelter, food, and water. If there
is no such place that one can walk to, then it would be better to
stay in a well-stocked hiding place in one's own house.

How long one could hide in one's own house, assuming that the
Antichrist's police move on to the next house when they find no one
in one's own house, will depend on the state of one's neighborhood
after the Antichrist takes over. If one's neighborhood remains
populated and is in a low-crime area, one's house could remain
undisturbed for some time. In this case, one could come out of one's
hiding place and move about freely in one's house until someone
came to it. But eventually one's seemingly-abandoned house could
be put up for sale by the bank or the city and then bought by some
family who could move into it. If they don't find one's hiding place,
one could remain hidden within or under the house even with them
living in it, although it could become very difficult to remain quiet
and still enough to escape detection for a long period of time.

One should have stored up in one's hiding place a good supply of
water and food. One could also have installed a regular toilet,
although it could make a lot of noise flushing and filling its water
tank. So if one must be more quiet, one could go to the bathroom
in five-gallon buckets. These buckets should have tight-fitting lids
which one can place over them to completely seal in odor and
germs. If one has to remain in one's hiding place for an extended
period, the buckets could become full, and if there is no toilet in
one's hiding place in which to quietly empty the buckets, one will
want to at least have a wide, open drainpipe into which one can
empty them. This drainpipe will need to have a cover which one
can screw on to keep out fumes from the sewer.

If one's neighborhood becomes deserted after the Antichrist takes
over, because he carts away all the Christians to prison and all the
non-Christians to work as slaves in his factories and armies, or to
work his fields; or if most people end up leaving one's neighborhood
on their own accord because all water, gas, and electricity are
permanently shut off due to damage to the lines from war or natural
disaster, or because the Antichrist shuts them all off intentionally
after rounding everyone up into compounds he totally controls, then
one could find oneself alone in one's neighborhood. In this case, one
could come out of one's hiding place and stretch one's legs a bit, sit
in the sun, empty one's buckets in a toilet in one's house (if one had
no toilet or drainpipe in one's hiding place), and search the houses in
the neighborhood for any abandoned food and water.

Of course, even if one's neighborhood becomes deserted by its
original inhabitants, other people like you could still be hidden within
it, and other fugitive people could wander into one's neighborhood
searching for shelter, food, and water. One will need the discernment
of the Holy Spirit to know who to trust and who to avoid. One will
also need to keep one's hiding place intact and fully stocked in case
one needs to hide away again for awhile to avoid some dangerous
people who come temporarily into the neighborhood.

The best foods to store in a small hiding place would be ones that
don't take up a lot of space but contain a lot of energy and
nutrients, such as nuts, honey, and canned tuna. These also can
be stored at room temperature for years without going bad. It may
be possible to store enough food in one's hiding place to last one
through the entire reign of the Antichrist, up until the second coming
of Jesus. It might be difficult to store enough water in one's hiding
place to last the entire time, though. The best thing would be to
have a well dug under one's house with its tap placed in one's hiding
place.

Whatever one does with regard to preparing a hiding place in one's
own house, as well as in the mountains/wilderness, one should keep
the location of one's hiding places secret from anyone one doesn't
trust with one's own life. For example, if one boasts to one's
neighbor or co-worker, or on an internet chat board, blog, or social
network all about one's nifty hiding places, and one divulges their
locations, when the Antichrist takes over, the location of one's
hiding places could be obtained by the Antichrist's police if they
question one's neighbors and co-workers about one's possible
location, or if they review the postings one had made on internet
chat boards, blogs, or social networks.

While the Antichrist and his police could know about all of the hiding
tricks which Christians have publicly disclosed and plan to employ to
escape their grasp, they still may not have the resources to be able
to find every last Christian. For example, even if they know that
Christians could theoretically have hiding places deep within a
desolate wilderness, or high up in a remote mountain, they may not
want to employ their expensive drones, manned aircraft, and
satellites to scour every last inch of vast tracts of wilderness/
mountains for any sign of a hiding place in which there might be
only a handful of Christians, when their hands could already be
completely full trying to constantly monitor and keep enslaved
billions of people imprisoned within the cities.

And even while the Antichrist and his police could know that some
of the houses in the cities could contain Christian hiding places in
them or under them, they may not want to waste the manpower it
would take to break through the walls and floors of every Christian
house to end up rooting out just a few Christians.

A shortcut they could take would be to simply place "bug bombs",
canisters containing aerosol insecticides, in every Christian house in
which they suspect Christians may be hiding in the walls or under
the floor. The poisonous gases from the "bug bombs" could then
seep into every crack to choke to death any hiding persons. In
order to counter this, Christians could have gas masks in their hiding
places which could filter out poisonous gases, or they could have
oxygen tanks and masks which they could breathe from until the
poisonous gases have dissipated from the house.

tango
Apr 5th 2009, 02:34 PM
If you're hiding in a secret compartment how do you defend yourself against a ruthless seek-and-destroy force that figures every house will either be occupied by those with the mark of the beast, or by Christians?

If the occupants of the house have the mark they can be left alone. An empty house, or an apparently empty house, can be bulldozed. After all, they don't care if Christians hiding inside are killed in the destruction.

moonglow
Apr 5th 2009, 02:38 PM
Here's another thought, how do we know that aren't?

Yea that is my point...they probably are..if they are planning to do something like this to start with.


God bless

EagleWatch
Apr 5th 2009, 03:39 PM
If you're hiding in a secret compartment how do you defend yourself against a ruthless seek-and-destroy force that figures every house will either be occupied by those with the mark of the beast, or by Christians?

If the occupants of the house have the mark they can be left alone. An empty house, or an apparently empty house, can be bulldozed. After all, they don't care if Christians hiding inside are killed in the destruction.

You won't be able to unless you have an underground shelter that cannot be detected.

EagleWatch
Apr 5th 2009, 03:48 PM
Here's some information.. SurvivorMall.com

HisLeast
Apr 5th 2009, 09:39 PM
The bottom line is, unless you're already out in the wilderness, if we assume massive social breakdown and tyranical regime is coming, its already too late. I used to think I could buy a small farm somewhere, hole up with some ammo and supplies and see what happens. How well did that work out for the Wako Texas crowd? First, even small farms are well beyond my ability to buy, and second, just because its rural doesn't mean the government doesn't know who lives there. To own property means paying property tax. They'll find me and take me away if they want to.

Move to the mountains? Same deal. Pretty much every scrap of land is catalogged, or will be by the time they want tabs on everyone.

I'm passionately undecided on eschatology, but my mind is open to a post-tribulation rapture. But in that eventuality, I see any kind of escape or hiding plan as folly. There's no way you could escape... unless you're one of those people already living off the land in the mountains somewhere. The Christians and other persona-non-grata WILL be found and rounded up, if that's what the supposed future tyrannical regime wants.

RevLogos
Apr 5th 2009, 10:37 PM
Here's another thought, how do we know that aren't?

As it turns out, they are. AND your email, AND your internet phone calls. I just noticed this today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/technologynews/5105519/Internet-records-to-be-stored-for-a-year.html


Details of every email sent and website visited by people in Britain are to be stored for use by the state from tomorrow as part of what campaigners claim is a massive assault on privacy.
A European Union directive, which Britain was instrumental in devising, comes into force which will require all internet service providers to retain information on email traffic, visits to web sites and telephone calls made over the internet, for 12 months.Me? I'm not hiding. I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory preaching the Gospel to those who need it most.

Josie
Apr 5th 2009, 11:03 PM
Personally for me it would be better to die than try and survive under such conditions.
I am not sure it would ever come to this, I think this is promoting fear.
I trust God to keep me either in life or death.

hiswaychristian
Apr 7th 2009, 01:06 AM
I have read through this thread, many useful ideas for when the time comes as well as beginning preparations now. Because we have a Christian Book Store I have begun stocking smaller Bibles as well as the traditional, and other smaller devotional books. In the beginning of the specific persecution we may get away with hiding the smaller Bibles and books.
I also recovered a small Bible in a secular book cover(the original cover was "rags"),more out of fun, than practicality.. Considering the rest of the books and Bibles we have, our entire book collection will probably be conficated. I think the actual Christian stores will be closed and might have to go underground like churches. More smaller Bibles could be hid.
God will lead us through it all-I truly believe, but I think He wants us to use our heads too.

third hero
Apr 7th 2009, 02:44 AM
Here's what I have been thinking about when it comes to preparation for the greatest period of human suffering ever. I believe that the best way to prepare for this is to realize first what our purpose and goal is during that time period.

According to my research, Christians will not be the only ones who will be sought out and destroyed. Jews, especially those who will not be in Jerusalem when the Beast launches his all-out assault on the Israelites, (Abomination that causes desolation, 2 Thes 2:3-4, Matthew 24:15-21, Zechariah 14:1-5a). When that happens, he will go after Christians and Jews, for we will be united then. (According to my research, when the Lord stands on the Mount of Olives with the 144,000, he will split the Mount in half, providing a means for those under duress to escape. The song of the 144,000, in my opinion, will tell all of the world that the God of Israel has indeed reclaimed His people, and His Son, Our Lord, has saved them in that day). It will be our job to seek them out, and help them in any way possible.

Not only that, the Beast will be unable to force every person around his sphere of influence to take the Mark right away. In fact, he will not force anyone at all. The second Beast, the false prophet, will be the one that will force everyone to take the Mark. He will not be able to enact this in one day. That means that we will have a period of time where we can go out and launch a massive proseletyzing effort, with the goal of bringing every soul that we come in contact with to Lord Jesus.

After that, we pray, because none of our planning will be great enough or secure enough to be effective. Like others have stated already, the Government is not dumb. They are watching, even as they are planning and plotting for their Lord to come and rule over them. (The Beast for those with the Daniel 9:26-27 issue). Any measure that we can think of, they will have a counter. The Lord knew this when He told John to write this verse.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:9-10

We must understand this riddle.

Anyone who gathers, or "leads to captivity", which in my opinion is another way of saying, those who gather safehavens and leads people to them, will themselves be captured.

Those who kill, for whatever reason, will themselves be killed. This is for all of those who believe that we must arm ourselves and fight against the Beast, including myself. If I, or anyone else, raise an army, that army will be destroyed, by the beast. Remember, the Lord had John write this verse as well.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Revelation 13:7

But that's not the only place where the Lord revealed this to. He also revealed it to Daniel, some 590 years before John's book was written. Here is what God showed Him through Gabriel.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Daniel 7:21

This is why the Lord said to John to write verse 9, where He says, "If any man has an ear, let Him hear". We have to take heed of all of this. This is the very same reason why the Lord says in verse 10 that this requires patient endurance and FAITH of the saints.

In my opinion, when the time comes when the Mark is fully in effect, we have very few options, but we do have options.

1. There are those families who have been preparing for the last 150 years. It's about time that we find them, and befriend them.

2. Pray, because without the Lord's help, we will truly be a fish in a barrel.

3. Learn to listen to His voice, because if we continue as we are today, we will not survive. The Lord will be talking, just as He is today. We have to clear away the noise, (false doctrines, personal "I feel" interpretations, personal biases, lifestyles, etc), and learn to listen to His voice. We will see the route to go through when we get there, as the Lord will be in total control.

Everything else is just us wasting our time and money, because every plan that we can conceive will inevitably fail. They have to. It's God's will.

The Moral of the story? Learn to trust God, because if we are the generation that is fated to endure through the Greatest period of human suffering ever, then we will not make it without Him. Remember, the Lord Himself said this:

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Matthew 24:22

Without the Lord, no flesh shall be saved. So get a praying, soldiers of the Lord. This is your weapon against our greatest foe, the Beast.

danield
Apr 7th 2009, 03:54 AM
I agree with so much of what you have posted third hero, but I want to show you a glimmer of hope that I think you are overlooking.

Matthew 24:40-42 40 "Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. 42 "So you, too, must keep watch! For you don't know what day your Lord is coming.
Here in this passage we see people who are taken on the day that the lord returns while working. So that means from all certainty that there will be Christians trying to make their way in this world during those perilous times. It is this that is at the core of what is guiding my thoughts towards Christ returning somewhere soon after the mark is established. I fully agree with you that there will be a transition of power for the beast as his rule is imposed through out the world. I can only imagine that the harlot will be the first to fall victim to the beasts rule through his ten kings, and the subsequent kingdoms fall in some fashion. But what strikes me as meaningful in all this is that there are people who are making their way even up until the day in which the lord returns. It may be from bartering their services or working their own gardens, but in any event, they are providing for themselves the very day of the Lord’s return.

What you have posted about trusting in the lord is 100% correct. He has a plan for us all, and we just need to keep listening to his message and having faith that our goal isn’t about storing gold and silver here in this world but storing it in heaven above where no thief could ever touch. So even the most detailed preparations will have its flaws, and it may be in this flaw that we have the opportunity to show the Lord how much we love him.

As for several of those posts about people actually reading this thread trying to figure out what we are doing, I think everyone knows that no one is actively researching Christians to persecute us now. People do not care that much about us to worry with us. I think the battle lines are draw in this day and age about disproving our beliefs, and over turning our customs. However, things sure are shaping up as Bible prophecy has predicted in many other segments of our society.

Bible2
Apr 11th 2009, 03:29 AM
"Except the LORD [YHWH] build the house, they labour in vain that
build it" (Psalms 127:1).

This means that we can't prepare for the coming tribulation by our
own, but must have the LORD [YHWH] supporting our efforts. No
matter how remote our hiding place is, if he isn't behind us, he will
make sure that Satan finds us: "And though they hide themselves in
the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and
though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence
will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them" (Amos 9:3).

It doesn't matter if we have a hiding place with six-inch thick steel
walls and doors, built in a cave 15,000 feet up in a remote mountain
in Nepal. It doesn't matter if we have built an elaborate underwater
compound on the top of a flattened seamount 3,000 feet under the
ocean. If God isn't protecting us, Satan will find us and destroy us.

So we must make sure that God is in all of our preparations, and that
we aren't just following our own ideas of what it best: "Trust in the
LORD [YHWH] with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own
understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct
thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes" (Proverbs 3:5-7). We
could get all puffed up over our great preparations, not realizing that
we are headed for destruction during the tribulation: "Pride goeth
before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to
be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with
the proud" (Proverbs 16:18-19).

God could lead a Christian to make simple preparations which will see
him through the tribulation, while another Christian could lead himself
to make elaborate preparations which will all be discovered and
destroyed. So it must not be us, but God himself who is making the
preparations through us: "LORD [YHWH], thou wilt ordain peace for
us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us" (Isaiah 26:12).
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in
him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do
nothing" (John 15:5). This means that apart from Jesus we can't do
anything that will last, that will end up mattering in the end.

We are not to make any preparations out of the natural spirit of
survivalism, for that is animated by the fear of death, which
Christians are not to have: "deliver them who through fear of death
were all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Hebrews 2:15). Christians
are to welcome dying as gain, for it brings their spirits into heaven
to be with Jesus: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain ...
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be
with Christ; which is far better" (Philippians 1:21,23). "We are
confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and
to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8).

It has always been ordained by God that some Christians will suffer
and die while other Christians are protected from harm. This is how
it was in the local first-century church congregations of Smyrna and
Philadelphia in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b).
The church in Smyrna was destined by God to suffer and die in a
first-century persecution that came upon all the Roman world: "Fear
none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall
cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have
tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee
a crown of life" (Revelation 2:10). At the same time, the church in
Philadelphia was protected from that persecution: "I also will keep
thee from the hour of temptation [trial]" (Revelation 3:10).

It will be the same way during the coming tribulation. Some
Christians will be protected: "And to the woman were given two
wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into
her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a
time, from the face of the serpent" (Revelation 12:14). At the same
time, other Christians will suffer and die at the hands of Satan and
the Antichrist: "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and
went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the
commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ"
(Revelation 12:17).

Satan will empower the Antichrist to take over the entire world for
42 months and make war against Christians and overcome them:
"and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months ...
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and
tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship
him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb
slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let
him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints" (Revelation 13:5-10); "Here is
the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice
from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die
in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit" (Revelation
14:12-13); "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his
mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
reigned with Christ a thousand years" (Revelation 20:4).

God is able to protect any Christian from any harm: "He shall cover
thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his
truth shall be thy shield and buckler. Thou shalt not be afraid for the
terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the
pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that
wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten
thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee ... There
shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy
dwelling. For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee
in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou
dash thy foot against a stone" (Psalms 91:4-12).

But Christians are not to test God in the sense of placing themselves
in dangerous situations and expecting him to rescue them: "Then
the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a
pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of
God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels
charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up,
lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto
him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt [test] the Lord thy
God" (Matthew 4:5-7).

There are Christians who are expecting God to miraculously protect
them during the coming tribulation, even though they are refusing
to make the preparations which he has been moving upon them to
make, and which he has provided them the money and the time to
make, not only for themselves, but for other Christians who do not
have the money or the time to make preparations, but will have to
rely on other Christians to feed them during the tribulation: "Who
then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler
over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that
servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I
say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But
and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his
coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and
drink with the drunken;*The lord of that servant shall come in a day
when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the
hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew
24:45-51).

There are some Christians who are wasting the money and the time
which God has given them, to live the high life and not do what God
has been moving upon them to do, for their own sake and the sake
of many others who will be dependent upon them during the awful
trials of the coming tribulation.

There are other Christians who are using the money and the time
which God has given them to make elaborate preparations for
themelves, not realizing that God will ask them to suffer and die
during the coming tribulation: "Wherefore let them that suffer
according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him
in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator" (1 Peter 4:19). God could
be asking them to give away all of their money and time to those
who need them now: "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven"
(Matthew 19:21). They could have fallen into covetousness; their
money could be stealing their heart away from God and service to
him:

"Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth
not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. And he
spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man
brought forth plentifully: And he thought within himself, saying, What
shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? And
he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater;
and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to
my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take
thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou
fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall
those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up
treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God" (Luke 12:15-21).

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But
lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew
6:19-21); "and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he
becometh unfruitful" (Matthew 13:22).

So let us do with our money and time whatever God has laid upon
our hearts to do with them, whether to give them away now to help
those who are in need now, or to use them to make preparations for
those who will need hidden shelter, food, water, and clothing during
the coming tribulation. Let us do the work that God has given us to
do now, and not judge each other for doing something different than
what we are doing: "For the Son of man is as a man taking a far
journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and
to every man his work" (Mark 13:34).

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny
himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master
he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to
make him stand ... whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and
whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or
die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and
revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why
dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy
brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to
me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us
shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one
another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a
stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way" (Romans
14:4,8-13).

Dragonfighter1
May 12th 2009, 05:25 PM
So... you are saying sit on a log and wait to be attacked. Just hold onto a couple of crossed sticks? We are not saying that we should prepare 'without' Gods guidance... we ARE saying we should prepare WITH God's guidance. We are sharing notes and ideas and thoughts... that is the purpose of this thread. If you would please read the opening statement of the thread it would be more sensible to you.
Otherwise your points are valid.

MarleVVLL
May 12th 2009, 06:54 PM
According to NT revelation, no where does it say to store food. Yeah, there is wisdom in doing the practicals, but Peter (1st Peter 4) says in essence, hey guys, look - the end of the age is at hand, so do these things (John 13 etc etc).

That is what we are to do, not store food.

However, if one is told to store food, by all means do it. However, it is not to be out of survivalism, but out of obedience and faith; as most of that food will probably be used to feed others anyways. God is our provider, not ourselves. Just as Jesus multiplied the loaves and fed the people in the wilderness, so He'll do again..

Dragonfighter1
May 12th 2009, 10:39 PM
According to NT revelation, no where does it say to store food. Yeah, there is wisdom in doing the practicals, but Peter (1st Peter 4) says in essence, hey guys, look - the end of the age is at hand, so do these things (John 13 etc etc).

That is what we are to do, not store food.

However, if one is told to store food, by all means do it. However, it is not to be out of survivalism, but out of obedience and faith; as most of that food will probably be used to feed others anyways. God is our provider, not ourselves. Just as Jesus multiplied the loaves and fed the people in the wilderness, so He'll do again..
Now that is a silly argument.. I ask you to consider the ramifications..
The Bible doesn't tell us to....:
Use Toilet paper...
Avoid polyunsaturated fats....
Drive cars....
Shower daily....
....but we do all these things.
Just because God didn't provide an exhaustive list in your Bible reference doesn't mean we are not to do things. Further, many refeences are made to being prepared practically... EG the bridesmaids and their oil etc.

Dragonfighter1
May 12th 2009, 10:44 PM
NOTE TO ALL.

THIS THREAD IS TITLED: HOW TO PREPARE

If you don't think we need to, or wish to debate it then please...

.. START A NEW THREAD ELSEWHERE AND I WILL GLADLY IGNORE IT... AS I WISH YOU WOULD THIS THREAD.

Please go to the opening thread and READ the instructions CAREFULLY.

Thanks much,

DF1

Bible2
May 13th 2009, 05:40 AM
Dragonfighter1 posted in message #244 of this thread:

So... you are saying sit on a log and wait to be attacked. Just hold
onto a couple of crossed sticks? We are not saying that we should
prepare 'without' Gods guidance... we ARE saying we should prepare
WITH God's guidance. We are sharing notes and ideas and
thoughts... that is the purpose of this thread. If you would please
read the opening statement of the thread it would be more sensible
to you.


Greetings.

Regarding "you are saying sit on a log and wait to be attacked. Just
hold onto a couple of crossed sticks?", no, we should make the
specific practical preparations for the tribulation which have already
been discussed in great detail in this thread (for example, in posts
#232, 228, 224, 189, 142, and 134), so that we can shelter and
feed others during that time (Revelation 12:6, Matthew 24:45), and/
or so we can be among those Christians who will still be "alive and
remain" at the second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). An
individual should only not make some preparations if God is guiding
that individual not to, for example because he knows that that
individual's heart would become attached to them (Matthew
6:19,21), or because he knows that that individual would make them
out of a fear of death (Hebrews 2:15) which he wants that individual
to move beyond (cf. Revelation 2:10).

Dragonfighter1
May 13th 2009, 03:13 PM
Greetings.

Regarding "you are saying sit on a log and wait to be attacked. Just
hold onto a couple of crossed sticks?", no, we should make the
specific practical preparations for the tribulation which have already
been discussed in great detail in this thread (for example, in posts
#232, 228, 224, 189, 142, and 134), so that we can shelter and
feed others during that time (Revelation 12:6, Matthew 24:45), and/
or so we can be among those Christians who will still be "alive and
remain" at the second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). An
individual should only not make some preparations if God is guiding
that individual not to, for example because he knows that that
individual's heart would become attached to them (Matthew
6:19,21), or because he knows that that individual would make them
out of a fear of death (Hebrews 2:15) which he wants that individual
to move beyond (cf. Revelation 2:10).
Point well made. Thanks.

Dragonfighter1
Sep 29th 2009, 06:17 PM
If the dollar is dropped as the defacto standard of global finance. (which it likely will in the next 5 years).
If THE U.S. loses its suzerainty commissions as a result (which are huge).
If the massive inflation our current deficit spending habits hits at the same time. (which is quite likely)
Will America be powerless to help The Israelis? (probably)

The end times may have global impact but the middle east is the focal point.

Preparing isnt optional. The scriptures say the bridesmaids were instructed to keep oil on hand and wicks trimmed...... yet we still make light and humour of any who take preparation seriously!

How many can post a reply to this without saying something like.. "Oh I'm just trusting and praying" (for the record I DID NOT say those two things should not be done).

Do share!