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TripleB
Nov 2nd 2008, 02:19 AM
A local Christian bookstore is have a '50% off all Bibles' sale during the next week and I'm debating on whther to buy a copy of "The Message."

I know that there has been a lot debate on whether it does the Word of God justice or not.

What is your take on this? Should I purchase a copy of it to add to my collection of various Bibles or not?

Thanks for your input.

TripleB

TrustGzus
Nov 2nd 2008, 02:25 AM
Yes, buy it. But take it for what it is. View it as a commentary. It's good to sometimes get an idea across to teens. Even the intro to it tells us that it's not intended to be anyone's study Bible.

The Message is a reading Bible. It is not intended to replace the excellent study Bibles that are available. My intent here (as it was earlier in my congregation and community) is simply to get people reading it who don’t know that the Bible is read-able at all, at least by them, and to get people who long ago lost interest in the Bible to read it again. But I haven’t tried to make it easy—there is much in the Bible that is hard to understand. So at some point along the way, soon or late, it will be important to get a standard study Bible to facilitate further study. Meanwhile, read in order to live, praying as you read, “God, let it be with me just as you say.”


—Eugene H. Peterson

Peterson, E. H. (2002). The Message : The Bible in contemporary language. Colorado Springs, Colo.: NavPress.

Lamplighter
Nov 2nd 2008, 02:41 AM
Yes, but it. But take it for what it is. View it as a commentary. It's good to sometimes get an idea across to teens. Even the intro to it tells us that it's not intended to be anyone's study Bible.

Exactly. Great advice.

SammeyDW
Nov 2nd 2008, 05:19 AM
Yes, buy it. But take it for what it is. View it as a commentary. It's good to sometimes get an idea across to teens. Even the intro to it tells us that it's not intended to be anyone's study Bible.


:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

RogerW
Nov 2nd 2008, 06:35 PM
A local Christian bookstore is have a '50% off all Bibles' sale during the next week and I'm debating on whther to buy a copy of "The Message."

I know that there has been a lot debate on whether it does the Word of God justice or not.

What is your take on this? Should I purchase a copy of it to add to my collection of various Bibles or not?

Thanks for your input.

TripleB

What point is there to having a Bible that contains very little, if any of the words of God? Paraphrased Bibles, in my opinion, don't even contain the words of God, therefore in my opinion they cannot really even be classified as a Bible.

Many Blessings,
RW

JesusPhreak27
Nov 2nd 2008, 06:50 PM
What point is there to having a Bible that contains very little, if any of the words of God? Paraphrased Bibles, in my opinion, don't even contain the words of God, therefore in my opinion they cannot really even be classified as a Bible.

Many Blessings,
RW

Question:

God is an omnipotent God correct?

If that is a true statement wouldnt that mean that He has a hand in creating EVERY version of the Bible that is written?

Also wouldnt it be fair to say that God in His infinite wisdom would allow for more then one kind of translation because not everyone is able to read the same way?

RogerW
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:22 PM
Question:

God is an omnipotent God correct?

If that is a true statement wouldnt that mean that He has a hand in creating EVERY version of the Bible that is written?

Also wouldnt it be fair to say that God in His infinite wisdom would allow for more then one kind of translation because not everyone is able to read the same way?

1. Yes
2. Yes, God often turns man over to do whatever he envisions through his/her vain imagination. And yet even through our sinfulness He will be glorified.
3. So, if I'm understanding your position correctly, you are saying God gives us any and every writing imaginable, and permits it to be called His Word because His True Authoritative Word cannot be comprehended by the masses? In other words God is okay with dumbing down His Words, because He understands that so many of us simply cannot read and understand Him? God's Words are written so that we would: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

If the Bible we are reading is not the inspired Word of God, how can it be profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness? And how can it be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works?

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The True Words of God are God-breathed and inspired...the words of men are not. The True Words of God are able to teach, correct and instruct, to make one perfect and fit for all good works...the words of men cannot. The Ture Words of God are to be diligently studied to make one approved unto God, a true workman, rightly dividing His Words of truth...the words of men are an easy reading, making us lazy, and discourage us from devoting time to study, we don't want to be workman who need not be ashamed, we want to be spoon fed, never coming to mature faith and doctrine.

Many Blessings,
RW

Ta-An
Nov 2nd 2008, 08:35 PM
I have a copy of The Message ,,,, reading it like a storybook .... it gives me a picture about what I already know..... just do not read it ieo your Bible :idea:

NinjaWizards777
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:32 PM
What point is there to having a Bible that contains very little, if any of the words of God? Paraphrased Bibles, in my opinion, don't even contain the words of God, therefore in my opinion they cannot really even be classified as a Bible.

Many Blessings,
RW
Isnt every translation just paraphrases of paraphrases through diffrent translations over thousands of years?

I kindof laugh to myself when people pretend as if "the" bible as we know it today is somthing that God scoops out of his mouth and gives to us. I believe Gods truth is laced in it regardless, but to think that mistranslations didnt happen or that everyting is "the perfect word of God that God inspired man to write" is a little silly at best.

immortality
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:40 PM
i agree with what "RogerW" has said


"The Message is a reading Bible. It is not intended to replace the excellent study Bibles that are available. My intent here (as it was earlier in my congregation and community) is simply to get people reading it who don’t know that the Bible is read-able at all, at least by them, and to get people who long ago lost interest in the Bible to read it again. But I haven’t tried to make it easy—there is much in the Bible that is hard to understand. So at some point along the way, soon or late, it will be important to get a standard study Bible to facilitate further study. Meanwhile, read in order to live, praying as you read, “God, let it be with me just as you say.”




—Eugene H. Peterson

Peterson, E. H. (2002). The Message : The Bible in contemporary language. Colorado Springs, Colo.: NavPress.i find the above text to be repulsive.

people who have "lost interest" in the bible, or who find it so difficult to read that they must resort to replacing it with something different are most likely not even saved at all.

without the holy spirit, the bible is indeed difficult to read. in fact, it is essentially impossible to truly comprehend and understand.

for the genuine, spirit-filled christian however, the bible could be written in a martian language and they would still have the ability to interpret it. if god wants his children to eat the food of the scriptures, then by his omnipotence it will be done.

personally, i have found that even reading the side notes in my own bible can prove to be disruptive to what the holy spirit may be trying to teach me. therefore i find the idea of reading an entire book of such content to be absolutely preposterous.

NinjaWizards777
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:50 PM
i agree with what "RogerW" has said


i find the above text to be repulsive.

people who have "lost interest" in the bible, or who find it so difficult to read that they must resort to replacing it with something man-made are most likely not even saved at all.

without the holy spirit, the bible is indeed difficult to read. in fact, it is essentially impossible to truly comprehend and understand.

for the genuine, spirit-filled christian however, the bible could be written in a martian language and they would still have the ability to interpret it.

personally, i have found that even reading the sidenotes in my own bible can prove to be disruptive to what the holy spirit may be trying to tell me. therefore i find the idea of reading an entire book of such content to be absolutely preposterous.
Hey guess what? Your typical bible translations are also "man-made"

Unless you believe God came down himself and wrote the books of "the" bible from finish to start (which by the way the bible was just diffrent books written by diffrent people that st Augustine decided to cannonize together 300 years after Christ) then the bible IS in fact man made..."God inspired" or not. You have to have faith that God can still speak his ways through a man made device....

JSobo
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:19 AM
Question:

God is an omnipotent God correct?

If that is a true statement wouldnt that mean that He has a hand in creating EVERY version of the Bible that is written?

Also wouldnt it be fair to say that God in His infinite wisdom would allow for more then one kind of translation because not everyone is able to read the same way?

GOD will provide false teachers to teach false doctrines if that is what the people want:

2Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

Emanate
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:02 PM
Yes, buy it. But take it for what it is. View it as a commentary. It's good to sometimes get an idea across to teens. Even the intro to it tells us that it's not intended to be anyone's study Bible.


If it is to be viewed as a commentary then you might try throwing it in the trash. This is truly the only bible version that I cannot even stomach. The Children's Bible is more accurate than The Message.

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:20 PM
:no: Sobo, false teachers are not provided by GOD but end time as a sign from GOD there will be more false teacher appearing to say they are the Christ...Luke 21. http://bibleforums.org/customavatars/avatar29806_3.gif (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=29806) Emanate (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=29806) http://bibleforums.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif Well, that's why my Bible Knowledge teacher taught us to keep our old Bible because there are too many new Bible Versions that isn't really good for our spiritual growth!!! Wrong English language words that describe from Greek or Hebrew Torah. Need to check again with the true Hebrew Torah...to understand the real meaning

GOD will provide false teachers to teach false doctrines if that is what the people want:

2Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

Ta-An
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:08 PM
I actually read the Message today, and have found it to be more descriptive / resaerched / clear than the the KJV or any other Bible.... Example :Ps 91:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=19&CHAP=91&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

Now do you know what this means.... seeing that we did not grow up with the Word in Hebrew?? :hmm:

The Message actually gives the correct interpretation to this verse, as the words for "feathers and wings" in Hebrew also refers to the Prayer shawl a Jewish man wears.... so I'll not call Peterson a false prophet :o

NinjaWizards777
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:21 PM
If it is to be viewed as a commentary then you might try throwing it in the trash. This is truly the only bible version that I cannot even stomach. The Children's Bible is more accurate than The Message.
The bible is all the same thing...message, king james, NIV

Just a bunch of books of interactions with God slapped togehter for our benifit...so you either believe God speaks through it or not. being all systamatic about it is pointless because its been translated and reprinted and mistranslated so many times over the past 2000 years theres little hope of it being very credable without faith that God is amoung the device and using it to HELP foster our relationship with Him...not to BE our relationship

so arguing over which bible translations are "good" and which are "trash" is really the most pointless argument ever. Read the one that words it most sensably to you...Gods still going to speak through it

Emanate
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:37 PM
The bible is all the same thing...message, king james, NIV

Just a bunch of books of interactions with God slapped togehter for our benifit...so you either believe God speaks through it or not. being all systamatic about it is pointless because its been translated and reprinted and mistranslated so many times over the past 2000 years theres little hope of it being very credable without faith that God is amoung the device and using it to HELP foster our relationship with Him...not to BE our relationship

so arguing over which bible translations are "good" and which are "trash" is really the most pointless argument ever. Read the one that words it most sensably to you...Gods still going to speak through it


You are right, my most humble apologies for answering the question and having my own opinion.

superwoman8977
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:38 PM
Okay now I am alll for understanding the word of the Lord however the thees and thous and flowery language in the King James doesnt cut it. I want to be able to pick up a bible and understand it and not have to sit there and figure out what this word and that one means. I have an amplified version (actually Joyce Meyers Everyday Life bible) that I love using however I have been looking at a message bible also. I was raised not on the KJV and I grew up ok :D

Emanate
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:40 PM
Okay now I am alll for understanding the word of the Lord however the thees and thous and flowery language in the King James doesnt cut it. I want to be able to pick up a bible and understand it and not have to sit there and figure out what this word and that one means. I have an amplified version (actually Joyce Meyers Everyday Life bible) that I love using however I have been looking at a message bible also. I was raised not on the KJV and I grew up ok :D


I thought you grew up as a new age hippy if you did not read the KJV.:lol:

superwoman8977
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:43 PM
I thought you grew up as a new age hippy if you did not read the KJV.:lol:\

Haha I am definitely not a hippie! But I am into loving the Lord and having a relationship with Him. Its all about the relationship with Him so if that is New Age then so be it.

NinjaWizards777
Nov 3rd 2008, 09:34 PM
You are right, my most humble apologies for answering the question and having my own opinion.
I never said people arent free to have their opinions, obviously they should.

Im just trying to point out the obvious...to say one bible translation is "trash" or you "cant stomach" is really losing sight of the point of "the" bible to begin with, and losing sight of the fact that their all just diffrent ways of saying the same thing. the words of the bible are not nearly as important as what God teaches our hearts through it. i think thats important to note

no need to get an attitude about it

9Marksfan
Nov 3rd 2008, 09:56 PM
Isnt every translation just paraphrases of paraphrases through diffrent translations over thousands of years?

I kindof laugh to myself when people pretend as if "the" bible as we know it today is somthing that God scoops out of his mouth and gives to us. I believe Gods truth is laced in it regardless, but to think that mistranslations didnt happen or that everyting is "the perfect word of God that God inspired man to write" is a little silly at best.

So don't you believe that the Scriptures as originally given, are the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God?

If you do, don't you think God is able to preserve His Word?

If you don't, haven't you believed the Devil's lie? He has ALWAYS attacked the Word of God - right from the garden of Eden.....

Emanate
Nov 3rd 2008, 09:57 PM
I never said people arent free to have their opinions, obviously they should.

Im just trying to point out the obvious...to say one bible translation is "trash" or you "cant stomach" is really losing sight of the point of "the" bible to begin with, and losing sight of the fact that their all just diffrent ways of saying the same thing. the words of the bible are not nearly as important as what God teaches our hearts through it. i think thats important to note

no need to get an attitude about it


I stand by my statement that The Message should not be used for commentary. It takes historical events and changes their culture and focus so as to put it in our 21st century understanding, thus losing its focus. Sure, God can speak through it. God spoke through a donkey but I won't go buy a donkey for my source of Scripture.

TrustGzus
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:36 PM
Hey Emanate,

I would absolutely object to The Messages if it denied any of the essential doctrines of the faith as the New World Translation does.

It seems to me most of the objecting people do towards The Message is how contemporary it is and that they take it as if it's trying to take the place as someone's primary Bible.

As evident from the introductory note I posted, Peterson never intended for it to be someone's primary Bible. Also, when other versions translate something as a contemporary phrase and don't translate the words of the actual Greek or Hebrew, should we call all Bibles out on that? Even the KJV did such things at various points.

Bottom line as I see it, it's nothing for anyone to get worked up about if they understand the purpose of The Message and let it be what it claims to be and don't incriminate it for something it never was intended to be.

Why don't you give some examples of passages you find unacceptable in The Message. However, keep in mind that it was never intended to be a formal equivalent, word-for-word type translation. You said it changes historical events. Give some examples. It does record Balaam's donkey talking. :)

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

NinjaWizards777
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:48 PM
So don't you believe that the Scriptures as originally given, are the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God?

If you do, don't you think God is able to preserve His Word?

If you don't, haven't you believed the Devil's lie? He has ALWAYS attacked the Word of God - right from the garden of Eden.....


Im not saying Gods words are not IN the bible in some way...but to say its "Gods perfect word" is innaccurate, because it was written by man... and man is corrupt, and to have several diffrent translations already demeans the original meanings of the words(which we dont even have more than bits of pieces of the Bible from an of the semi-orignals so how close they are to begin with is a mystery, though we know alot is close).

The Bible was not written as "The Bible", it was diffrent books...that God "inspired" peopel to write...sure. but does it make it His "perfect infallable word" anymore than a C.S. Lewis book or some other book that God "inspired" someone to write that you can find at a chrisitan book store? i would say personaly, no. The Bible wasnt given to adam or humanity on day one and God was like "hey guys, heres my perfect word. oh and take it all really literally". No. It was cannonized togehter from books that made the old testament scriptures and letters written to diffrent chruchss and such. Those letters especailly were NEVER intended by Paul or anyone to be Holy scripture or dictate the life of a Christian word for word...they were writen for a specific chruch at a specific time. Can we still benifit largley from them and God speak to us from them? Absolutley.

My point is, people need to start seeing the Bible for what it really is. A "scrapbook" of our interactions with God and what he SEEMS to will and SEEMS to teach those of us that have been trying to follow him since before any of "the" bible was in written form. And it is that device brought together for our benifit (the bible as we know it today) that I believe God has faithfully allowed his will to be painted roughly to set the foundation for our relationship with him. God is not bound to a book afterall

mikebr
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:51 PM
In my opinion the message reads exactly like the bible was written. In other words few other versions translate the epistles to read like letters. Most bibles read like a list of rules rather than a letter to be read. Would any of you want a letter from your pastor to be broken into verses?

TrustGzus
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:58 PM
Hey NinjaWizards777,

I think what you are discussing would work better in a different thread. This thread is about thoughts on The Message. Your delving into the doctrine of inspiration which is when the original author put the pen to papyri. The Message is a discussion of translating, i.e. getting the message (no pun intended) from the source language into a receptor language. Different issue and your view on inspiration is different than probably most of the members here and can drag the thread way off track.

So comment on The Message, but I'd recommend throwing theories of inspiration into a different thread. However, it would be a great thing to discuss - just not here.

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

NinjaWizards777
Nov 3rd 2008, 11:05 PM
Hey NinjaWizards777,

I think what you are discussing would work better in a different thread. This thread is about thoughts on The Message. Your delving into the doctrine of inspiration which is when the original author put the pen to papyri. The Message is a discussion of translating, i.e. getting the message (no pun intended) from the source language into a receptor language. Different issue and your view on inspiration is different than probably most of the members here and can drag the thread way off track.

So comment on The Message, but I'd recommend throwing theories of inspiration into a different thread. However, it would be a great thing to discuss - just not here.

Grace & peace to you,

Joe
im not trying to discuss that...but people argue translations and i was showing how pointless it is because at the heart of it...people seem to forget what the bible is. i wasnt trying to dirive into somthing else...but to call one bible translation as "bad" over another just defeats the whole purpose imo.

Idk why people are afraid to talk about diffring view points

TrustGzus
Nov 3rd 2008, 11:20 PM
im not trying to discuss that...but people argue translations and i was showing how pointless it is because at the heart of it...people seem to forget what the bible is. i wasnt trying to dirive into somthing else...but to call one bible translation as "bad" over another just defeats the whole purpose imo.

Idk why people are afraid to talk about diffring view pointsI understand. And if your opinion on inspiration is correct, then your perspective might be as well. However, most members of this forum probably believe that when God inspired the Biblical writers, what they wrote down in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek was the perfect Word of God and not a fallible man-made set of books. All of the forum's leadership holds to this. People aren't forgetting what the Bible is. They have an entirely different belief from you about what it is.

There is a parallel with the birth of Jesus. Jesus was a God-human product. God is Jesus' father and Mary (a human) is his mother. However, we believe Jesus was sinless and perfect.

Just as God used an imperfect human vessel (Mary) to produce a Jesus, so Evangelicals believe that God also used imperfect humans to produce a perfect book.

There are different theories of how to translate those words and this thread is about if The Message would be a good purchase based on its approach.

Do you see how the theory of inspiration can affect one's answer? Do you see if a group of people believe that the autographs in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek were perfect, that how this is translated would be important to discuss/debate?

Again, I'm just trying to prevent us from getting derailed in the thread into an inspiration discussion. Let's do that, but let's do that in a separate thread.

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

NinjaWizards777
Nov 3rd 2008, 11:58 PM
I understand. And if your opinion on inspiration is correct, then your perspective might be as well. However, most members of this forum probably believe that when God inspired the Biblical writers, what they wrote down in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek was the perfect Word of God and not a fallible man-made set of books. All of the forum's leadership holds to this. People aren't forgetting what the Bible is. They have an entirely different belief from you about what it is.
the body of Christ is made up of people that dont all interpret things the same, or believe exactly the same....cest la vei



There is a parallel with the birth of Jesus. Jesus was a God-human product. God is Jesus' father and Mary (a human) is his mother. However, we believe Jesus was sinless and perfect. as do I



Just as God used an imperfect human vessel (Mary) to produce a Jesus, so Evangelicals believe that God also used imperfect humans to produce a perfect book. Mmmk right but that "perfect book" has been translated many diffrent times over thousands of years and cannonized by someone who wasnt even a true convert at the time (Augustine), so what im saying is every modern translation is more or less a regurgetation of the original...be the original "perfect" or not, that fact remains. Obviously, or we woudlnt have so many diffrent translations and interpretations of those translations.



There are different theories of how to translate those words and this thread is about if The Message would be a good purchase based on its approach. Once again, i was just pointing out food for thought



Do you see how the theory of inspiration can affect one's answer? Do you see if a group of people believe that the autographs in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek were perfect, that how this is translated would be important to discuss/debate? Yes I do but the point still remains that regardless of your prefered "Holy Translation" Im merely pointing out that its not the original text...whehter the original was aboslutly perfect or not doesnt even matter. What matters is whehter God can speak through it...and if you think he speaks through one translation better than another simply because you dont think its "translated right" or what then you missed the point(IMO) of the Bible...the Bible being somthing we used to learn about and know Gods will and use to speak to us. I would argue he is not limited in power according to mans "translation" of said "perfect" word...he can still speak to us His ways regardless. But like i said people are free to have their own opinions as to what what is or how useful it is to them, these are merely my thoughts...sorry if they dont line up with the everyday christian. Im sure Martin Luther didnt line up with the "everyday christian" back in the Church of England but he still wasnt afraid to to speak his mind or show the falsehoods that had arosed that ultmatley would led to the reformation.(not saying Im him or thats whats happening, merely making a comparison)



Again, I'm just trying to prevent us from getting derailed in the thread into an inspiration discussion. Let's do that, but let's do that in a separate thread.

I know, im just explaining myself. Dont let me stop anyone from speaking about the message sure, but I think my underlining points get the point across pretty nicely in relation to the message and my "take" on it and all translatiosn...which is what this thread is about...the message and its translation and our take

Marie-Novelle
Nov 5th 2008, 04:30 AM
Judge for yourself:

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_content?page=73521&sp=1003

NASB
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203;&version=49;
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=judgement

NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203%20;&version=31;
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=condemnation

MSG
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203;&version=65;
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=acquittal



A local Christian bookstore is have a '50% off all Bibles' sale during the next week and I'm debating on whther to buy a copy of "The Message."

I know that there has been a lot debate on whether it does the Word of God justice or not.

What is your take on this? Should I purchase a copy of it to add to my collection of various Bibles or not?

Thanks for your input.

TripleB

Dani H
Nov 5th 2008, 05:17 AM
I love the Message. It's a wonderful reading Bible. I wouldn't use it as a study Bible either, because it is exactly what it claims to be, a paraphrase.

jamesblack
Nov 6th 2008, 05:45 AM
The message rocks, I read it along side my bible. Sometimes the old english is a bit to much for me and hard to decode. The message is not commentary in my view, just put in a fourm that we can understand but with that said you should read it along side your bible. the meassage was never ment to replace your bible but be read along side it; to help us understand a little bit better and help us inact some of the bible teachings in our lifes, not that you need the message to do that.:cool: i could be worng but its my view.