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View Full Version : Do you think you're saved because of a "decision" you made in the past?



immortality
Nov 2nd 2008, 04:33 AM
Paul Washer talks about the modern day phenomenon known as "decisionism":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCbYrdxNUwU

Literalist-Luke
Nov 2nd 2008, 04:48 AM
I think the guy hit the nail on the head. Extremely well presented. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Side note: I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church and attended one until only about 2 years ago. And he was absolutely right about many Baptists.

cwb
Nov 2nd 2008, 07:54 PM
The way anybody gets saved is by making a decision. A decision to do what the word of God says. That is what true repentance is - doing what God says to do. He tells us plain and clear what any person needs to do to get saved.

Romans 10:9


That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Yes, getting saved is a decision. It's is a decision to do what God says to do:

1) confess Jesus as Lord
2) believe God raised him from the dead.

I am going to believe what the bible says men need to do to get saved. If some men want to complicate salvation and say it comes any other way than what the bible clearly says in Romans 10:9, that's there privilege. Fact remains any person who does Romans 10:9 is saved. Any person who does not do Romans 10:9 is not saved. I still think it is wiser to go by what the bible says than what men might say.

JesusReignsForever
Nov 2nd 2008, 08:12 PM
It is Your Decision to follow christ. You have to recieve the gospel and make a decision if you are going to follow christ or not. GOD is a perfect gentleman he does not go where he is not welcomed.


Revelation 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=3&verse=20&version=9&context=verse)
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


Matthew 5:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=6&version=9&context=verse)
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.


But it ALL starts first with the decision to follow Jesus. Follow what the bible says NOT what man says. Man will lead you wrong everytime but Jesus he will NEVER lead us wrong not EVER.

Thank You Jesus for your TRUTH!:pp

immortality
Nov 2nd 2008, 08:37 PM
i can tell you all with confidence that i wouldn't be currently saved if god had not made the decision to lavish his grace on me.

JesusReignsForever
Nov 2nd 2008, 08:39 PM
Okay I have a thought....if it were true the we did not make the conscience decision to follow christ and it was up to God to chose who he would save why wouldnt we all be saved?

threebigrocks
Nov 2nd 2008, 08:44 PM
The way anybody gets saved is by making a decision. A decision to do what the word of God says. That is what true repentance is - doing what God says to do. He tells us plain and clear what any person needs to do to get saved.

Romans 10:9


Yes, getting saved is a decision. It's is a decision to do what God says to do:

1) confess Jesus as Lord
2) believe God raised him from the dead.

I am going to believe what the bible says men need to do to get saved. If some men want to complicate salvation and say it comes any other way than what the bible clearly says in Romans 10:9, that's there privilege. Fact remains any person who does Romans 10:9 is saved. Any person who does not do Romans 10:9 is not saved. I still think it is wiser to go by what the bible says than what men might say.

I can say many things, put on a front, but if my actions and words don't reflect it is what I proclaim with my mouth still true? If we don't walk in faith after confessing with our lips, we were just giving lip service.

Let me ask this. Is our faith (not the work of Christ) complete?

cwb
Nov 2nd 2008, 09:02 PM
i can tell you all with confidence that i wouldn't be currently saved if god had not made the decision to lavish his grace on me.

That's kind of obvious. Nobody would get saved if God had not decided to do what He did. However it is not an automatic that everybody recieves the grace that He laid out for everybody. Each person needs to make a decision to recieve it.

immortality
Nov 2nd 2008, 09:43 PM
we could talk about predestination and election all day.

what paul washer is talking about however is how there are currently many individuals who falsely believe themselves saved because they once "prayed a prayer" or made a "decision".

salvation is not a "flu-shot", in that it's a "been there, done that" one time thing.

rather, the bible is clear that the moment god saves a person, the holy spirit sanctifies them and regenerates them until the day they die. the evidence that they truly repented long ago is that they are continuing to repent today. it is "blessed are those who mourn", not "blessed are those who have mourned"...

JesusReignsForever
Nov 2nd 2008, 09:52 PM
we could talk about predestination and election all day.

what paul washer is talking about however is how there are currently many individuals who falsely believe themselves saved because they once "prayed a prayer" or made a "decision".

salvation is not a "flu-shot", in that it's a "been there, done that" one time thing.

rather, the bible is clear that the moment god saves a person, the holy spirit sanctifies them and regenerates them until the day they die. the evidence that they truly repented long ago is that they are continuing to repent today. it is "blessed are those who mourn", not "blessed are those who have mourned"...


Who ever said it was a one time thing? It most certainly is not a repeat this a boom your saved. No! It is you saying Yes lord I am a sinner FORGIVE ME. Come into me fully and whatever is not like you TAKE IT OUT!! Teach me Your Word and Your ways so I can tell someone else about you and when you come back for you people let me be ready. That is what it is all about. But You first have to make the decision to say YES LORD! Here I am! FIX ME!

cwb
Nov 2nd 2008, 09:59 PM
Let me ask this. Is our faith (not the work of Christ) complete?


We are saved by grace, not by our faith.

Prosperity
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:06 PM
The way anybody gets saved is by making a decision. A decision to do what the word of God says. That is what true repentance is - doing what God says to do. He tells us plain and clear what any person needs to do to get saved.

Romans 10:9


Yes, getting saved is a decision. It's is a decision to do what God says to do:

1) confess Jesus as Lord
2) believe God raised him from the dead.

I am going to believe what the bible says men need to do to get saved. If some men want to complicate salvation and say it comes any other way than what the bible clearly says in Romans 10:9, that's there privilege. Fact remains any person who does Romans 10:9 is saved. Any person who does not do Romans 10:9 is not saved. I still think it is wiser to go by what the bible says than what men might say.

I agree with you....

Prosperity
Nov 2nd 2008, 10:11 PM
We are saved by grace, not by our faith.

Very true...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Bladers
Nov 3rd 2008, 12:46 AM
Indeed we are saved by grace, but we receive it through faith!

Amen!

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:00 AM
Perhaps a clarification would be in order that a one-time decision, followed by a lifetime of living as if nothing had ever happened, most likely does not constitute a legitimate salvation.

Can we all agree on that? :yes:

threebigrocks
Nov 3rd 2008, 02:20 AM
We are saved by grace, not by our faith.

I am well aware of that my friend.


Perhaps a clarification would be in order that a one-time decision, followed by a lifetime of living as if nothing had ever happened, most likely does not constitute a legitimate salvation.

Can we all agree on that? :yes:

That is what I am getting at. It's not like getting a flu shot. It's living in a way that because you are saved by grace - because God first loved you - that in return to do what pleases Him because you love Him in return. You produce fruit through your faith.

We walk (not walked) by faith, and we can only do so because we believe and are saved by grace. :)

cwb
Nov 3rd 2008, 02:41 AM
I am well aware of that my friend.



That is what I am getting at. It's not like getting a flu shot. It's living in a way that because you are saved by grace - because God first loved you - that in return to do what pleases Him because you love Him in return. You produce fruit through your faith.

We walk (not walked) by faith, and we can only do so because we believe and are saved by grace. :)

I definitely agree with you.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:18 AM
Perhaps a clarification would be in order that a one-time decision, followed by a lifetime of living as if nothing had ever happened, most likely does not constitute a legitimate salvation.

Can we all agree on that? :yes:And by the way, before anybody starts in with the "It's not our place to judge" routine, please notice that I was very careful to include the words "most likely", for that very reason. Thank you, this is the end of this disclaimer. :D

My heart's Desire
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:41 AM
UT. O This has the feel of another OSAS-NOSAS thread. I didn't watch the video as I see the direction just by the title. ;) I made a decision at one time in my life to believe Christ and He saved me when I was around 14 or 15 and I don't mind saying I'm 50 and still as saved now as I was then when I first believed. Have I realized in all this time more and more what faith really is? You betcha! Have I grown in Grace more than when I first made a decision, Yes!

When Christ chose His disciples He told them to leave their nets and follow Him. Did they decide to follow or did He force them to because He had chose them? Don't have to discuss but it is something to think about if one wants to. And I'm not even sure that is an example of salvation or discipleship.

Anyway, that's my answer.

My heart's Desire
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:48 AM
The way anybody gets saved is by making a decision. A decision to do what the word of God says. That is what true repentance is - doing what God says to do. He tells us plain and clear what any person needs to do to get saved.

Romans 10:9


Yes, getting saved is a decision. It's is a decision to do what God says to do:

1) confess Jesus as Lord
2) believe God raised him from the dead.

I am going to believe what the bible says men need to do to get saved. If some men want to complicate salvation and say it comes any other way than what the bible clearly says in Romans 10:9, that's there privilege. Fact remains any person who does Romans 10:9 is saved. Any person who does not do Romans 10:9 is not saved. I still think it is wiser to go by what the bible says than what men might say.
Love THIS POST! I couldn't agree more nor have said it better! I know people mean well, yet the way some say it makes salvation sound so hard and so difficult to obtain that it almost makes it sound as if Christ is reluctant to save anyone or only the very elite!
Sometimes we are so concerned about sin we forget about the Savior. It's not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.

Yes, I know I'm saved right from the beginning with the decision I made in the past.

AliveinChristDave
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:24 AM
Good topic.
The idea of making a decision was obscure until Charles Finney came on the scene in the 1820's era.
Before that time there were very few preachers making altar calls and inviting people to make public decisions.
Finney taught that conversion was a change of the will and not a change of the character on the part of the sinner. Since the decision was the main thing he believed it was the duty of the preacher to get that decision in any way possible.
He was followed by evangelist like DL Moody then Billy Sunday, John R. Rice and Billy Graham who attracted great crowds and had many decisions for Christ.
I think what we believe about decision making hinges on what we believe about salvation.
There are basically three views.
First: We make a decision because God chose us and called us by the Holy Spirit and we came to Christ and got all He had to offer and we became complete in Him and we will never fall from this decision.
Second: We make a decision based on our desire to be a believer and we make that decision. That decision is permanent as long as we continue in the faith.
Third: Making a decision is just a beginning point of our faith. After believing we strive for complete personal sanctification through the power of the Holy Ghost. Salvation depends on whether or not we ever come to that point of personal sanctification where Christ is reproduced in us. If we never come to that place we will never inherit all that God has for us. It doesn't mean we never believed but only our faith wasn't made perfect. We miss condemnation but never gain full reward. This is my personal view.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[B]1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Redimido
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:19 AM
It is Your Decision to follow christ. You have to recieve the gospel and make a decision if you are going to follow christ or not. GOD is a perfect gentleman he does not go where he is not welcomed.


Revelation 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=3&verse=20&version=9&context=verse)
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


Matthew 5:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=6&version=9&context=verse)
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.


But it ALL starts first with the decision to follow Jesus. Follow what the bible says NOT what man says. Man will lead you wrong everytime but Jesus he will NEVER lead us wrong not EVER.

Thank You Jesus for your TRUTH!:pp


If you look at the context of that verse in revelation Jesus is speaking to a church to people how where already Christian. Neither Jesus nor the apostle asked anyone to invite Jesus into there heart. So why do we do it?
:hmm:

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:39 PM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=2&version=31
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=3&version=31
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=4&version=31
Acts 1: 8
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
Matthew 28:16-20
The Great Commission

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=28&version=31#fen-NIV-24212a)] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

JesusReignsForever
Nov 3rd 2008, 06:46 PM
If you look at the context of that verse in revelation Jesus is speaking to a church to people how where already Christian. Neither Jesus nor the apostle asked anyone to invite Jesus into there heart. So why do we do it?
:hmm:


Well maybe because a person might not just have the guts to get up or cry out. Rather ignore the conviction of the holy spirt. Maybe because the pastor is giving the person a time to come to God when otherwise they would not. I think it is an awesome thing it gives a convicted soul a chance to say


Yes Jesus I hear you knocking Come In!

and then they are surrounded by people that can pray with them so they can be set free. I find it a good thing and I dont wish for it to stop. Many people have gotten saved by there invitation to come and get to know this man name Jesus that died for your sins so you can live again!

Jamey
Nov 3rd 2008, 07:00 PM
I think its the problem today with religion. We make one decision and poof thats it. We make a decision every day when we wake up to follow Christ or not. I don't buy into the free will till saved then your a robot theology.
The more mature you are in Christ, the more you are able to follow Him. Thats why staying in the Word and being in fellowship with other followers is important. Judas made a decision to follow Christ, then made his decision to walk away.

J.

theBelovedDisciple
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:48 PM
When He saved me Feb 3 1994... I wasnt in a church.. or big Christian gathering, or an evangelistic event..... I didn't say a sinner's prayer or sign my name to a decision card........ I was alone sitting on my brother's couch... He made Himself so real and revealed Himself to me in such a powerful way that I could do nothing but say 'yes' to Him and realize that I was nothing without Him.... I will never forget that day.. for it will be in my memory for Eternity.. That day is still fresh in my mind....

He was the One that Drew me in by His Holy Ghost.. He revealed Himself to me... revealed His grace and goodness in my life.. even though I didn't deserve it...this revelation bringing me to my knees... ...

He set me free and delievered me... and He has empowered me with His Holy Ghost..

Jesus the Christ... God manifest in the flesh...found His sheep that day... Lost and without Hope in the world.... a sheep He had 'known' since the foundation of the world...

That 'lost sheep' was me.....

There are no limits to God.. He can Save, Sanctify, and Redeem the most vilest of people.. and He can do it 'anywhere' and 'anyhow'...He pleases and chooses to do so..

Its the Revelation of His Goodness and Mercy in a Person's life .... this unmerited... that will bring that sinner to his/her knees... Look at what Paul says ....about God's goodness and His Forebearance...


And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Romans 2:3-4

John146
Nov 3rd 2008, 09:28 PM
i can tell you all with confidence that i wouldn't be currently saved if god had not made the decision to lavish his grace on me.Do you believe God withholds His grace from those who are not saved?

John146
Nov 3rd 2008, 09:30 PM
I think its the problem today with religion. We make one decision and poof thats it. We make a decision every day when we wake up to follow Christ or not. I don't buy into the free will till saved then your a robot theology.
The more mature you are in Christ, the more you are able to follow Him. Thats why staying in the Word and being in fellowship with other followers is important. Judas made a decision to follow Christ, then made his decision to walk away.

J.I agree.

Luke 9
23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

theBelovedDisciple
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:00 PM
Do you believe God withholds His grace from those who are not saved?


Look at what the Psalmist tells us as he penned it under the direction of the Holy Ghost..

The LORD [is] good to all: and his tender mercies [are] over all his works.

Psalm 145:9

God's Mercy and Favor is extended to mankind thru the Person of Jesus the Christ.... He is Good to all... the problem lies in the mind and the mind that has been taken captive or blinded.... by the prince of the power of the air... he has most believing that they have done it all by their own power and ability.. playing off of pride and lust... they are so caught up in themselves that they do not give God the credit or 'realize' that He has been good to them.. thus the mind is blinded....

Its the Holy Ghost that cracks thru that and delivers a person from that spiritual stronghold.. revealing the 'unmerited' goodness and grace in a person's life.. thus revealing it to a hardened heart and bringing that hardened heart to the 'revelation' of His goodness and thus repentance...

for example.. we had a young man here in town that should of been dead in a severe truck crash.... I 'know' that God intervened in that person's life at that exact instance of that crash...... and he was thrown from the truck .. the truck was wrapped around a tree... there was nothing left of that truck....

That is one instance where God was Good and spared that man's life.. this man is not a born again Christian... I'm praying that God would reveal Himself to Him... and He would use this instance of His unmerited favor and grace in His life to draw him to Him.. God is good and He is working in People's lifes.. to get people to realize it and understand it... thats another job... a Job and Work for the Holy Ghost..

I will testify to this and this is the fact that when a sinner has reached a point to where he/she has been given the revelational knowledge of God's goodness in their lives.. and they are about to turn their lives over to God ..... this is a point where the Angels in Heaven rejoice... a point in time that satan hates and despises....and fights against... and its a point where the gates of hell tremble...

John146
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:10 PM
If you look at the context of that verse in revelation Jesus is speaking to a church to people how where already Christian. Neither Jesus nor the apostle asked anyone to invite Jesus into there heart. So why do we do it?
:hmm:They may have been Christian at one point but they thought they had "need of nothing" and were "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked". Doesn't seem like the status of people who were still Christian to me. Jesus was telling them they needed to repent. Whether they were once Christian or not, they had no relationship with Him at that point. He was losing patience with them. He was about to spit them out of His mouth because they were lukewarm. He was still knocking on the door of their hearts and giving them the opportunity to open the door and turn (or return) to Him. What else can Jesus coming in to a person mean than what it means here:

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Also, in Rev 3:20 Jesus is speaking to "any man" so He is not necessarily only speaking to the people of that particular church at that point. I believe He knocks on the door of all people's hearts and people must open the door to Him by repenting and putting their faith in Him as Lord and Savior. He certainly could be speaking to all people in Rev 3:20 because we know that the next verse does not apply only to the people of that church.

Rev 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

With all that said, asking Him into one's heart isn't enough in and of itself. If someone asks Him into their heart but isn't willing to repent of their sins and submit to Him as their Lord and Savior then what good is that, right?

mikebr
Nov 3rd 2008, 10:55 PM
Do you think you're saved because of a "decision" you made in the past?

No I was saved by a decision the Father, Son and Spirit made in the past.:pp

Veretax
Nov 3rd 2008, 11:25 PM
my initial reaction isn't that I made a decision, it isn't that I think I'm saved... I know:

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Now, I think the practice of giving an invitation is not inappropriate, however, I think it needs to be done individually in private, give the person some scripture show them from the bible. I don't think praying is a mistake, but the emphasis should be on what the scripture teaches, not mouthing words to a prayer.



I once was in a Church for VBS, a Charismatic one,where they preached if you'd ever said a prayer, that it was okay to take communion. Why they were doing that to kids under the age of 12 is beyond me, but they made you seem ostracized if you didn't say you had done so. That happened to me, and it was a big stumbling block for 5 years or so before I finally found the truth in scripture, and then believed.

Redimido
Nov 4th 2008, 04:00 AM
They may have been Christian at one point but they thought they had "need of nothing" and were "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked". Doesn't seem like the status of people who were still Christian to me. Jesus was telling them they needed to repent. Whether they were once Christian or not, they had no relationship with Him at that point. He was losing patience with them. He was about to spit them out of His mouth because they were lukewarm. He was still knocking on the door of their hearts and giving them the opportunity to open the door and turn (or return) to Him. What else can Jesus coming in to a person mean than what it means here:

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How can they be his church and not be Christians? Besides Jesus say he disciplining them.

Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

If there not Christian then there no longer his children and he won’t disciplining them.


Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.




Also, in Rev 3:20 Jesus is speaking to "any man" so He is not necessarily only speaking to the people of that particular church at that point. he still speacking to the church so when he says any man t is with in the context of the church of Laodicea


Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"


I believe He knocks on the door of all people's hearts and people must open the door to Him by repenting and putting their faith in Him as Lord and Savior. He certainly could be speaking to all people in Rev 3:20 because we know that the next verse does not apply only to the people of that church.Act 16:14 say he open Lydia’s heart. He is never said to be knocking on the door of an unbeliever’s heart. So that is just speculation on your part IMO.


If someone asks Him into their heart but isn't willing to repent of their sins and submit to Him as their Lord and Savior then what good is that, right? I agree.:) It's worth nothing at all.

My heart's Desire
Nov 4th 2008, 05:28 AM
Do you believe God withholds His grace from those who are not saved?
I don't. The Bible is clear that God is good to all even those who do not merit His goodness. Are they all saved? No, but He gives all grace in general.

Dani H
Nov 4th 2008, 05:29 AM
Jesus only enters us after we enter Him. We have to believe into Him, that is, enter His death and resurrection and accept His punishment as our own. That requires the convicting work of the Holy Spirit as to our true state before God as sinners.

If you want to call that a decision, then it is. But it's more than that. It's acknowledging our condition, understanding that He is Who He is, and He did what He did, and entering into the Person of Jesus Christ, and into the Kingdom of the King of kings. And Him entering us.

9Marksfan
Nov 4th 2008, 09:45 AM
Jesus only enters us after we enter Him. We have to believe into Him, that is, enter His death and resurrection and accept His punishment as our own. That requires the convicting work of the Holy Spirit as to our true state before God as sinners.

If you want to call that a decision, then it is. But it's more than that. It's acknowledging our condition, understanding that He is Who He is, and He did what He did, and entering into the Person of Jesus Christ, and into the Kingdom of the King of kings. And Him entering us.

Excellent post. Well said.