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View Full Version : "The Church in America is going to suffer so terribly" - Paul Washer



immortality
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:39 AM
please consider what is said in the following video.

"Persecution or a Great Awakening" by Paul Washer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY&feature=related

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:46 AM
Wow, powerful video, thanks. Highly recommended. http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/madyes.gif

thepenitent
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:51 AM
A very sobering and insightful message by a true messenger of God.

immortality
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:57 AM
it's interesting, because those who are familiar with paul washer's teachings know that he virtually never discusses his beliefs regarding the coming times.

so immense are the events that are soon going to transpire on this planet that the holy spirit is compelling people known to preach exclusively on the gospel to contribute sounding the alarm.

RevLogos
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:06 AM
I believe he speaks the truth.

As I watched it, I felt sad. Not so much for those of us caught within the web as it draws tight, but for those outside the web. Especially those Laodicean Christians and others who think they are Christian but only know a false Jesus. A prosperity Jesus. A man Jesus who was never resurrected.

I was going to say "forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." But most of them do know. They are just so wrapped up in their earthly lives and fleshly desires that they no longer care. Faith is not important. God is not relevant.

Nevertheless, forgive them Father, and help us reach as many of them as possible before the door shuts.

dan
Nov 3rd 2008, 11:07 AM
...Not come after the "sheep" at first, they will come after the "Rams". In fact, I believe that the "sheep" will be included in those that help eliminate the rams.

The rams are those that know how to fight, and the sheep are those that give up their lives willingly.

DAN 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
DAN 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
DAN 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
DAN 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

DAN 11:22 And the arms of the fighter shall be overcome before his face, and shall be broken; yea also the prince of the covenant. (Douay)

ROM 3:8 Let us not, "do evil so that good may come", a statement which we are falsely said by some to have made, because such behaviour will have its right punishment. (Bible In Basic English)

cwb
Nov 3rd 2008, 12:37 PM
I guess we should just throw this verse out to window.

2 ch 7:14


If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.


Oh. and while we are at it, let's throw away this scripture:

II Tim 2:1-4


I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.


Then while we are at it, let's just throw away this scripture:

2 Thess 3:1


Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:16 PM
Luke 14:25-35
The Cost of Being a Disciple

25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. 28"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'
31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
34"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

please consider what is said in the following video.

"Persecution or a Great Awakening" by Paul Washer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY&feature=related

Dragonfighter1
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:26 PM
I guess we should just throw this verse out to window.

2 ch 7:14


Oh. and while we are at it, let's throw away this scripture:

II Tim 2:1-4


Then while we are at it, let's just throw away this scripture:

2 Thess 3:1
Not sure I fully understand you...but, I am suyre there were some very sincere people in Israel AS THEY WENT INTO CAPTIVITY.
We few may not be enough to turn the tide of Gods Wrath, but rather be preserved during it.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:27 PM
Question: What do you think will happen to those sincere christians who acknowledge this but say" God will protect me" and they do nothing practical to prepare for it?

cwb
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:41 PM
Not sure I fully understand you...but, I am suyre there were some very sincere people in Israel AS THEY WENT INTO CAPTIVITY.
We few may not be enough to turn the tide of Gods Wrath, but rather be preserved during it.

Maybe not. But I will say this. If you have quit praying for America and the spread of the gospel in this country and other countries in this world, I do not believe your heart is right with God on this matter. If you are just merely throwing your arms up in the air and have quit applying the three verses I have quoted because you believe the great tribulation is so near, I believe that is just wrong. God wants all men to be saved. The church has a job to do. Neither you nor I nor anybody else knows when the great tribulation is going to start. The three verses I quoted are scripture. If any Christian has quit doing those three verses, then they have quit applying the word of God in their lives and are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

cwb
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:51 PM
Question: What do you think will happen to those sincere christians who acknowledge this but say" God will protect me" and they do nothing practical to prepare for it?

Again, if any Christian has quit doing the three verses I quoted, they are not sincere. They are disobeying the word of God. I am not going to quit praying for the word of the Lord to have free course just because thing are not looking so good. Neither should any Christian quit praying for those in authority and all men. (even if the prayer for that person in authority is for him to get out of authority). You may be right. It may not be enough to turn the tide at this point. However, a defeatist attitude and lack of faith certainly will not help matters. God is able to do amazing things when we humble ourselves and pray.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 3rd 2008, 01:57 PM
Maybe not. But I will say this. If you have quit praying for America and the spread of the gospel in this country and other countries in this world, I do not believe your heart is right with God on this matter. If you are just merely throwing your arms up in the air and have quit applying the three verses I have quoted because you believe the great tribulation is so near, I believe that is just wrong. God wants all men to be saved. The church has a job to do. Neither you nor I nor anybody else knows when the great tribulation is going to start. The three verses I quoted are scripture. If any Christian has quit doing those three verses, then they have quit applying the word of God in their lives and are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Indeed I have not quit.:pray:
My fear is that in the "not Quitting" some have thrown up their hands and said, "God will take care of me I need do nothing to prepare or be prudent" of course they wouldn't ever word it that way. :o
Everyday I see people on these boards saying that God will take care of some issue, but they rarely include personal responsibility.:thumbsdn:
The post trib people have a thread going about how to prepare.. but what happens? People come into the thread ridiculing them for planning, thinking and preparing. It fine to believe in pretrib, absolutely, but for those who believe otherwise you have a stark issue... do you prepare, or just sit down and blame God when you get arrested for not taking the mark! I am getting way off post here though.

We need to pray, and prepare. The idea that the antichrist can't hurt us is foolish. Even before he comes the world will give us tribulation. We should pray and prepare for that too.

moonglow
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:55 PM
please consider what is said in the following video.

"Persecution or a Great Awakening" by Paul Washer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY&feature=related

That's it? He doesn't say why or what is going on...:confused What 'net' is forming around us? Or who is coming after us...and he just speaks of the US..not a world wide thing so he must not be talking about the tribulation as many believe that will be world wide...certainly not just the US. I thought it was very confusing...isn't there a part two of this where he explains more of what he is talking about?

God bless

jen74
Nov 3rd 2008, 04:34 PM
Question: What do you think will happen to those sincere christians who acknowledge this but say" God will protect me" and they do nothing practical to prepare for it?
Spiritual preparation is not doing nothing. In fact, I would dare to say that the spiritual is more important than the physical. Jesus speaks many times of the physical and it is always less than the spiritual.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:03 PM
I guess we should just throw this verse out to window.

2 ch 7:14


Oh. and while we are at it, let's throw away this scripture:

II Tim 2:1-4


Then while we are at it, let's just throw away this scripture:

2 Thess 3:1So you're saying that by using the approach discussed in those verses that the Tribulation can be held off indefinitely?

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:05 PM
Maybe not. But I will say this. If you have quit praying for America and the spread of the gospel in this country and other countries in this world, I do not believe your heart is right with God on this matter. If you are just merely throwing your arms up in the air and have quit applying the three verses I have quoted because you believe the great tribulation is so near, I believe that is just wrong. God wants all men to be saved. The church has a job to do. Neither you nor I nor anybody else knows when the great tribulation is going to start. The three verses I quoted are scripture. If any Christian has quit doing those three verses, then they have quit applying the word of God in their lives and are part of the problem and not part of the solution.I would have to agree with this completely. :yes:

Literalist-Luke
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:06 PM
Maybe both "sides" could acknowledge that it's best to prepare for the worst, but still pray/hope for the best?

moonglow
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:08 PM
Maybe both "sides" could acknowledge that it's best to prepare for the worst, but still pray/hope for the best?

We could...but this video doesn't seem to even be about the end times...he said this is going to happen to just American...so it can't be the tribulation. So easy answer...we all leave the US and go elsewhere...:lol:

Dani H
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:16 PM
We could...but this video doesn't seem to even be about the end times...he said this is going to happen to just American...so it can't be the tribulation. So easy answer...we all leave the US and go elsewhere...:lol:

Canada better be making some room ... :lol:

But yes, judgment must begin in the house of the Lord. Did we really expect it not to? We either clean up our lives, or God is going to have to do it for us.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 3rd 2008, 05:20 PM
We could...but this video doesn't seem to even be about the end times...he said this is going to happen to just American...so it can't be the tribulation. So easy answer...we all leave the US and go elsewhere...:lol:
If this happens I'm going to moonglows house and hide behind her...she'll beat em to death with her keyboard!

..and just how many keyboard did it take to got to 27 bazzillion posts ma'am?

(He said respectfully expecting a keyboard up side the head any moment)

Dani H
Nov 4th 2008, 05:06 AM
Well here's the thing: Judge not, lest you be judged. If you don't want to be judged by God, then stop judging other people.

That's one side of the coin.

The other side of the coin is this:

I know my Father, and I welcome His judgment, because He is a merciful God. We shouldn't be afraid of God's judgment as His children. He has always been just and merciful with me, and I am who I am today because of His judgment in my life, as He has used it to expose the hidden garbage in my flesh and grow me closer to Himself. How wonderful His judgment is! David was completely right!

The key during judgment is to run TO God. It's nothing to be afraid of. He's not some cosmic ogre waiting to smack people around. He is our Father, we are His children, and His judgments are always right, and good, and merciful. So to make people afraid of them, to my mind, isn't right. It puts a wedge between God and His people, and that shouldn't happen. We should trust God enough to welcome His judgment and allow it to purify us, always, so we can grow up in Him.

cwb
Nov 4th 2008, 05:28 AM
So you're saying that by using the approach discussed in those verses that the Tribulation can be held off indefinitely?

Definitely not. The Tribualation is going to come when it comes. Nothing we can do about that. However we do not know when that is. Therefore I still believe our prayers have a great impact on how many people get saved and on our country when we pray for it.

Lamplighter
Nov 4th 2008, 05:55 AM
it's interesting, because those who are familiar with Paul Washer's teachings know that he virtually never discusses his beliefs regarding the coming times.


He is a dynamic preacher, with some good messages, but his theology is messed up. He teaches Lordship salvation. Lordship salvation is the theology that you are saved through grace, and also by forsaking all of your sins.
This is an oxymoron. Grace is not a work based salvation, but forsaking all of your sins is a work based salvation. Which is it Mr. Washer? Grace or works?

thepenitent
Nov 4th 2008, 06:25 AM
He is a dynamic preacher, with some good messages, but his theology is messed up. He teaches Lordship salvation. Lordship salvation is the theology that you are saved through grace, and also by forsaking all of your sins.
This is an oxymoron. Grace is not a work based salvation, but forsaking all of your sins is a work based salvation. Which is it Mr. Washer? Grace or works?

Pastor Washer preaches that forsaking sins is the sign that one has been saved through grace. It is the inescapable message of the Bible.

Lamplighter
Nov 4th 2008, 06:57 AM
Pastor Washer preaches that forsaking sins is the sign that one has been saved through grace. It is the inescapable message of the Bible.

It is? In what verses?

Repenting and forsaking are not the same thing. There are no verses in the KJV Bible about forsaking your sin in the NT. There are many about repenting of sin however.

Repent in the Greek is (metanoeo) which means to change one's mind for the better of one's past sins.

Forsake in the Greek is (egkataleipo) which means abandon or desert.

Show me the verses in the NT where it says to forsake all of your sin for salvation please? I can't find them?

I can however find plenty of verses on repenting of your sins for salvation.

daughter
Nov 4th 2008, 08:40 AM
Again, if any Christian has quit doing the three verses I quoted, they are not sincere. They are disobeying the word of God. I am not going to quit praying for the word of the Lord to have free course just because thing are not looking so good. Neither should any Christian quit praying for those in authority and all men. (even if the prayer for that person in authority is for him to get out of authority). You may be right. It may not be enough to turn the tide at this point. However, a defeatist attitude and lack of faith certainly will not help matters. God is able to do amazing things when we humble ourselves and pray.
Paul Washer hasn't quit praying applying those scriptures though... or have I misunderstood why you're quoting them? (It wouldn't be the first time I made a blag...)

9Marksfan
Nov 4th 2008, 10:15 AM
It is? In what verses?

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Rom 6:1-2 NKJV

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Rom 6:15 NKJV

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 1 Jn 3:6 ESV

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 1 Jn 3:9-10 ESV


Repenting and forsaking are not the same thing.

Not at all. How can we repent of sin and still cling to it? That's nonsensical!


There are no verses in the KJV Bible about forsaking your sin in the NT.

Hmmmm...scroll down for one from Jesus Himself.


There are many about repenting of sin however.

There are plenty in the OT - is the OT not as much God's Word in your eyes? And do you think the standard is LOWER in the NT?!?!


Repent in the Greek is (metanoeo) which means to change one's mind for the better of one's past sins.

It actually means changing one's mind about God and all that He is and all that He has said. If He hates sin, shouldn't we? If He loves righteousness, shouldn't we? If He said that "whoever confesses and RENOUNCES [sin] will have mercy" (Prov 28:13), has He changed?!?


Forsake in the Greek is (egkataleipo) which means abandon or desert.

It's not the only word - and it's enkataleipo, btw. There's also apotasso, which is used here:-

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:33 KJV

Er, notice I'm quoting the KJV.....


Show me the verses in the NT where it says to forsake all of your sin for salvation please? I can't find them?

Isn't our sin something that we have? In fact isn't it ALL we have and are in God's eyes?


I can however find plenty of verses on repenting of your sins for salvation.

How you think we can repent of sin and hold on to it (ie not forsake it) when it's a spiritual cancer that will ultimately destroy us is beyond me. It's like saying "Yes, I believe that radical surgery can save me - I didn't use to believe that - but now I do! But, er, I'd rather not have the surgery, thanks - but I'm still going to be cured, right?"

Saved7
Nov 4th 2008, 02:12 PM
Repent in the Greek is (metanoeo) which means to change one's mind for the better of one's past sins.

Forsake in the Greek is (egkataleipo) which means abandon or desert.






If a man or a woman walks out on their children never to speak to or see them again by choice, having TURNED THEIR BACKS on them....isn't it usually referred to as "abandonment"?????

When you TURN AWAY from your sins, you are abandoning them....may not have the exact same meaning, but they do have the same effect, do they not?
Use a little common sense here...when one comes to Christ, we are to turn AWAY from our sins and walk in the opposite direction, it is a SIGN of true faith. If we choose not to WALK AWAY from those sins (abandon them) then we have not repented at all, therefore we are not saved.
Don't get so literal with people and you might gain a better understanding of what they are trying to express in their teachings.

jesuslover1968
Nov 4th 2008, 02:37 PM
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Paul%5EWasher

moonglow
Nov 4th 2008, 03:28 PM
If this happens I'm going to moonglows house and hide behind her...she'll beat em to death with her keyboard!

..and just how many keyboard did it take to got to 27 bazzillion posts ma'am?

(He said respectfully expecting a keyboard up side the head any moment)

I am moving to Canada to live with CoffeeCat, so you are on your own! ha! Better buy a bunch of keyboards!

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 03:56 PM
I am moving to Canada to live with CoffeeCat, so you are on your own! ha! Better buy a bunch of keyboards!

I have a British Passport, so I can follow you to Canada.

Way I figure it between a Texan Wife, and a keyboard wielding mega-poster...I should be safe forever!...

Of course I'll probably end up doing the laundry and cooking... hmmm, maybe I'm changing my mind...

moonglow
Nov 4th 2008, 04:01 PM
I have a British Passport, so I can follow you to Canada.

Way I figure it between a Texan Wife, and a keyboard wielding mega-poster...I should be safe forever!...

Of course I'll probably end up doing the laundry and cooking... hmmm, maybe I'm changing my mind...

:lol::lol::lol: Yea, us ladies will protect you....:cool::rolleyes: so you can clean the house, work in the yard, take the trash out...CoffeeCat might share some coffee with you...once her cat is done with it...:rofl:

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 04:08 PM
:lol::lol::lol: Yea, us ladies will protect you....:cool::rolleyes: so you can clean the house, work in the yard, take the trash out...CoffeeCat might share some coffee with you...once her cat is done with it...:rofl:
I already do all of that..but if someone else is gonna make the coffee, hey I'm IN!!!

tango
Nov 4th 2008, 04:16 PM
Question: What do you think will happen to those sincere christians who acknowledge this but say" God will protect me" and they do nothing practical to prepare for it?

I don't honestly believe there is anything we can do to prepare physically for what is coming. You're talking about storing enough food for yourself and your family for 3.5 or 7 years, depending on your views. Even 3.5 years requires a phenomenal amount of stockpiling, and that's even assuming you aren't going to share. We can hoard food but that won't stop it being stolen, we can hoard money but won't be able to buy or sell, and so on.

Besides, if we're going to take the stockpiling approach we're trying to run and hide. Remember Matt 16:18 - the gates of Hades will not prevail against the church. Let's not flip that around and end up praying that the gates of the church will prevail against the forces of evil all around.

thepenitent
Nov 4th 2008, 04:53 PM
It is? In what verses?

Repenting and forsaking are not the same thing. There are no verses in the KJV Bible about forsaking your sin in the NT. There are many about repenting of sin however.

Repent in the Greek is (metanoeo) which means to change one's mind for the better of one's past sins.

Forsake in the Greek is (egkataleipo) which means abandon or desert.

Show me the verses in the NT where it says to forsake all of your sin for salvation please? I can't find them?

I can however find plenty of verses on repenting of your sins for salvation.

I said forsaking sins is a sign (ie. consequence) of salvation not a precondition. (as does Pastor Washer). The difference between repentence and forsaking is of no consequence in this regard. Regeneration precedes justification precedes sanctification. It's really quite simple - Reformed theology 101.

moonglow
Nov 4th 2008, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Dragonfighter1
Question: What do you think will happen to those sincere christians who acknowledge this but say" God will protect me" and they do nothing practical to prepare for it?

I guess that depends on the persons idea of being protected...I mean Revelation 13 says the beast WILL be given authority over the saints...who gives this authority? Well God does of course...and it also says if you refuse to worship the image of the beast you will be killed...

So....:hmm:

The bible says God will spare those believers from HIS wrath...not from the beast's wrath...


I don't honestly believe there is anything we can do to prepare physically for what is coming. You're talking about storing enough food for yourself and your family for 3.5 or 7 years, depending on your views. Even 3.5 years requires a phenomenal amount of stockpiling, and that's even assuming you aren't going to share. We can hoard food but that won't stop it being stolen, we can hoard money but won't be able to buy or sell, and so on.

Besides, if we're going to take the stockpiling approach we're trying to run and hide. Remember Matt 16:18 - the gates of Hades will not prevail against the church. Let's not flip that around and end up praying that the gates of the church will prevail against the forces of evil all around.

Very good. A person cannot hoard food and stock up on supplies AND run and hide. You can't carry that much food, water, etc, even in a vehicle. In which if everyone takes the events in Revelation as literal...burning of a third of the trees and grass...bad water...falling metros...and so forth...its going to be pretty tough to use a car or truck as everyone else will be fleeing and block the roads so that leaves you on a motorcycle or bike or walking and you can't carrying much on any of those. If you run and hide then try to stock up on things....well...that is going to be pretty tough since most seem to plan on hiding in caves...no near by stores...water is poisoned...I don't think those water cleaning tablets are made to get poison out of the water and I kind of doubt building a fire (which would give you away) and boiling the water would help. With so many things burned up...what would their be to eat in the wild? (PS I wouldn't hide in a cave! Doesn't the bible say the wicked will be hiding in the caves?)

I don't think we would have a choice but to depend on God.

God bless

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 05:11 PM
Very good. A person cannot hoard food and stock up on supplies AND run and hide. You can't carry that much food, water, etc, even in a vehicle. In which if everyone takes the events in Revelation as literal...burning of a third of the trees and grass...bad water...falling metros...and so forth...its going to be pretty tough to use a car or truck ...
Emphasis mine.


Falling metros? Falling metros? I heard that they were pretty tiny cars but wow!!!:rofl:




Very good. A person cannot hoard food and stock up on supplies AND run and hide. You can't carry that much food, water, etc, even in a vehicle. In which if everyone takes the events in Revelation as literal...burning of a third of the trees and grass...bad water...falling metros...and so forth...its going to be pretty tough to use a car or truck ...
Emphasis mine.

Especially if its fallen out of the sky!! It'll be a bit smooshed.:lol:

Sorry Moonglow, I know that was a cheap shot, especially given how bad I type... I just couldnt resist it.. You being the poster and all.

Lyndie
Nov 4th 2008, 06:18 PM
Okay here's a question-that's kind of related,(if I should make a seperate thread for this mods, I will)
Why does everyone think that all of this is going to start with the U.S.? We aren't the only country on this planet.

daughter
Nov 4th 2008, 06:26 PM
It hasn't started in the US - nobody has suggested that have they?

I know a couple of people who have been arrested for handing out Christian tracts in the UK, my son has been physically bullied at a "Christian" school for his faith, and I know Christians who are scared to express their faith at work, in case they get the sack.

So, it's not started in the US. Anyone thinking of China, where they harvest Christian's organs for sale to the medical industry, or Iran or Afghanistan?

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 06:27 PM
Okay here's a question-that's kind of related,(if I should make a seperate thread for this mods, I will)
Why does everyone think that all of this is going to start with the U.S.? We aren't the only country on this planet.
Hmm, There is a related thread going on here...http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=146068

I think it will start sooner than we would like. Middle of next year I see pretty ugly turmoil and global unrest. I expect oil to be up high, electricity to be higher because of the rules Obama wants to place on coal co's(right or wrong I only comment on the result of the rules). I see a lot of unemployement. Yep, things are gonna be ugly no matter who wins, but Obama has the upper hand I think.

Lyndie
Nov 4th 2008, 06:28 PM
I'm just wondering why the emphasis that everything happening in this country is leading up to the end. Seems to me that some people think its all about America, that we are the determining factor.

moonglow
Nov 4th 2008, 06:32 PM
Emphasis mine.


Falling metros? Falling metros? I heard that they were pretty tiny cars but wow!!!:rofl:


Emphasis mine.

Especially if its fallen out of the sky!! It'll be a bit smooshed.:lol:

Sorry Moonglow, I know that was a cheap shot, especially given how bad I type... I just couldnt resist it.. You being the poster and all.

man you are such a brat! Does your wife know this about you..or do you just do bratty things on here and then behave around her? :hmm: I never said I could spell...:P:P Next time I will put 'falling tic tacs'...100 pd ones too! ha! :P:lol:

9Marksfan
Nov 4th 2008, 06:38 PM
Emphasis mine.


Falling metros? Falling metros? I heard that they were pretty tiny cars but wow!!!:rofl:


Emphasis mine.

Especially if its fallen out of the sky!! It'll be a bit smooshed.:lol:

Sorry Moonglow, I know that was a cheap shot, especially given how bad I type... I just couldnt resist it.. You being the poster and all.

:rofl: As a Brit, I appreciate that - for non-Brits, the Austin Metro was a small car in the 80s in the UK! ;)

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 06:39 PM
I don't honestly believe there is anything we can do to prepare physically for what is coming. You're talking about storing enough food for yourself and your family for 3.5 or 7 years, depending on your views. Even 3.5 years requires a phenomenal amount of stockpiling, and that's even assuming you aren't going to share. We can hoard food but that won't stop it being stolen, we can hoard money but won't be able to buy or sell, and so on.

Besides, if we're going to take the stockpiling approach we're trying to run and hide. Remember Matt 16:18 - the gates of Hades will not prevail against the church. Let's not flip that around and end up praying that the gates of the church will prevail against the forces of evil all around.
There is absolutely a lot you can do to prepare. Making fun of hoarding or escaping may be easy to set up for the accusation of sillyness, but be serious. DO you think that all the AC's efforts will come to pass in one hour! It will take at least a few weeks maybe months. What should we do just throw up our hands and walk to the nearest police station?

When we see laws being passed that require the mark to purchase food, we will do what everyone does before a snow storm. When we see the police start rounding up the radicalls we will do what we can to be unnoticed and even try to move to a different country if the AC doesnt yet have it fully under his control.

Please! To say that any preparation is foolish is close to insulting... what about prayer, what about fellowship and discussion? therse boards are a place where we prepare (even if some use it "to prepare to NOT prepare")

Look not everyone can run, not everyone has the funds to store or a vacation home in the mountains (not that that is necessarily safe) but some will try to alleviate the difficulties of our brothers and sisters where we can. Many of us will die for our efforts. Just becasue the AC is given authority over us (power) it doesn't mean he has total, all inclusive, global, micromanaging ability. There will be countries that oppose him until they are crushed by him, there will be cities that oppose him until they are crushed by him, while all that is going on the ones who have stored food wil be told by their pastor that they should share with those who refused to lest they starve to death. Yees the ac will kill many/most/all of us, but do we have to suffer because some chose to do no preparation at all?

While the AC rolls out his evil across the globe countrys, states, counties,cities and etc.. will be taking stands. Michigan for one will be one of them...(a lot of active Christians there... that county/state will be one that takes a stand) should they just roll over and do nothing?

Come one folks, we may be prophecied to lose but we werent ordered to commit suicide or do nothing... "occupy till I come" isnt a suggestion.

immortality
Nov 4th 2008, 06:45 PM
I'm just wondering why the emphasis that everything happening in this country is leading up to the end. Seems to me that some people think its all about America, that we are the determining factor.

the coming times are indeed going to affect every human being on the planet - not just america. it's just that the church in america is currently the most asleep, therefore they are the ones who are most in need of being woken up.

there are far too many professing christians in america who are currently living in a bubble of false sense of security - both regarding the reality of the difficult times ahead, and the fact that if they do not truly repent from their spiritual lukewarmness/hypocrisy, they may go to hell.

this is jesus talking to the church of laodicea:

"I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see." [rev 3:18]

this period of "refining in the fire" may soon be upon us.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 4th 2008, 06:47 PM
man you are such a brat! Does your wife know this about you..or do you just do bratty things on here and then behave around her? :hmm: I never said I could spell...:P:P Next time I will put 'falling tic tacs'...100 pd ones too! ha! :P:lol:
Brat, that me!:D

Yes my wife knows all about me, She loves me too! I think she finds my style refreshing and not predictably boring. (I Hope)
If you drop 100 pound tic tacs, I'm taking one and licking it to death!:P

Lamplighter
Nov 4th 2008, 09:38 PM
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Rom 6:1-2 NKJV

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Rom 6:15 NKJV

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 1 Jn 3:6 ESV

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 1 Jn 3:9-10 ESV



Not at all. How can we repent of sin and still cling to it? That's nonsensical!



Hmmmm...scroll down for one from Jesus Himself.



There are plenty in the OT - is the OT not as much God's Word in your eyes? And do you think the standard is LOWER in the NT?!?!



It actually means changing one's mind about God and all that He is and all that He has said. If He hates sin, shouldn't we? If He loves righteousness, shouldn't we? If He said that "whoever confesses and RENOUNCES [sin] will have mercy" (Prov 28:13), has He changed?!?



It's not the only word - and it's enkataleipo, btw. There's also apotasso, which is used here:-

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:33 KJV

Er, notice I'm quoting the KJV.....



Isn't our sin something that we have? In fact isn't it ALL we have and are in God's eyes?



How you think we can repent of sin and hold on to it (ie not forsake it) when it's a spiritual cancer that will ultimately destroy us is beyond me. It's like saying "Yes, I believe that radical surgery can save me - I didn't use to believe that - but now I do! But, er, I'd rather not have the surgery, thanks - but I'm still going to be cured, right?"

None of the verses you provided say that you "forsake" your sins for salvation. If a person were able to forsake their sins, then they would be sin free, and no longer need Christ. Forsake is a bad choice of words. It has no ties whatsoever to repenting.

tango
Nov 5th 2008, 05:41 AM
There is absolutely a lot you can do to prepare. Making fun of hoarding or escaping may be easy to set up for the accusation of sillyness, but be serious. DO you think that all the AC's efforts will come to pass in one hour! It will take at least a few weeks maybe months. What should we do just throw up our hands and walk to the nearest police station?

When we see laws being passed that require the mark to purchase food, we will do what everyone does before a snow storm. When we see the police start rounding up the radicalls we will do what we can to be unnoticed and even try to move to a different country if the AC doesnt yet have it fully under his control.

Please! To say that any preparation is foolish is close to insulting... what about prayer, what about fellowship and discussion? therse boards are a place where we prepare (even if some use it "to prepare to NOT prepare")

Look not everyone can run, not everyone has the funds to store or a vacation home in the mountains (not that that is necessarily safe) but some will try to alleviate the difficulties of our brothers and sisters where we can. Many of us will die for our efforts. Just becasue the AC is given authority over us (power) it doesn't mean he has total, all inclusive, global, micromanaging ability. There will be countries that oppose him until they are crushed by him, there will be cities that oppose him until they are crushed by him, while all that is going on the ones who have stored food wil be told by their pastor that they should share with those who refused to lest they starve to death. Yees the ac will kill many/most/all of us, but do we have to suffer because some chose to do no preparation at all?

While the AC rolls out his evil across the globe countrys, states, counties,cities and etc.. will be taking stands. Michigan for one will be one of them...(a lot of active Christians there... that county/state will be one that takes a stand) should they just roll over and do nothing?

Come one folks, we may be prophecied to lose but we werent ordered to commit suicide or do nothing... "occupy till I come" isnt a suggestion.

OK, how much food do you need to last 3.5 years, per person? How much water? Where are you going to store that amount of supplies? If you're planning on finding running water, what backup plan do you have in case your supply is contaminated or diverted, or if it simply dries up? What backup plan are you going to have in case someone else gets to your stash before you do with enough firepower to keep you out? Are you going to have another monstrous great stash as a reserve? Are you planning on living alone deep in a cave somewhere, or taking people with you? How much extra food will you need to take for them, and how will you handle the risk of betrayal of you and your stash?

I'm not making fun of preparing, I'm simply saying that it's simply not possible to prepare enough supplies for 3.5 years or more and achieve any certainty at all. Telling people not to make fun doesn't avoid the requirement to address issues like this.

Dragonfighter1
Nov 5th 2008, 11:59 AM
OK, how much food do you need to last 3.5 years, per person? How much water? Where are you going to store that amount of supplies? If you're planning on finding running water, what backup plan do you have in case your supply is contaminated or diverted, or if it simply dries up? What backup plan are you going to have in case someone else gets to your stash before you do with enough firepower to keep you out? Are you going to have another monstrous great stash as a reserve? Are you planning on living alone deep in a cave somewhere, or taking people with you? How much extra food will you need to take for them, and how will you handle the risk of betrayal of you and your stash?

I'm not making fun of preparing, I'm simply saying that it's simply not possible to prepare enough supplies for 3.5 years or more and achieve any certainty at all. Telling people not to make fun doesn't avoid the requirement to address issues like this.
Dude I totally get your point...but I think you are missing mine. Look, I DON'T EXPECT TO SURVIVE. Lets get that established. Now, while I am delaying my death I may be able to bring comfort and salvation to others by my foreplanning. Your statement make capitulation the only option. Jesus told us to occupy till he comes...not give up to the inevitable.
I may be able to stock pile until its taken, then I'll run till I'm caught, and all the while I will do all I can to lead others to faith in Christ or to encourage other believers. Further, Having steeled my mind by pre thinking through the real issues of my impending death I will not err from the faith, and may help others to go to their deaths with confidence and hope rather than fear and confusion.
Do you see now the benefit to preparing? Its not about being invincible, its about preserving hope as much as possible.

dan
Dec 5th 2008, 04:13 AM
We could...but this video doesn't seem to even be about the end times...he said this is going to happen to just American...so it can't be the tribulation. So easy answer...we all leave the US and go elsewhere...:lol:

Perhaps, but consider that the US may be the only refuge. Which is WHY it will be attacked. The other countries might not have any hope at all.

MT 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
MT 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

And which country brings forth the "fruits"? Why, the God Blessed USA, of course!

JN 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
JN 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
JN 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
JN 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

And where have the "Children Of God" gathered?:lol:

DevinWL
Dec 7th 2008, 03:18 AM
Dragonfighter1 is absolutely right, we need to take personal responsibility in these dark times...we can rely on God always but when we get so "comfortable" on relying on God we are no longer doing our part because when people get comfortable they tend to (a) never challenge themselves and (b) WE GET LAZY...we have to be diligent in praying for our country and all around...The Sermon on the Mount says it the best WE NEED TO LOVE BOTH OUR SELVES AND OUR ENEMIES AS OURSELVES...how many professing christians out there prayed for the 9/11 hijackers HUH i would wager to say a few...if we want to live hypocritical lives be my guest but my God will always provide what i need in the light of what He sees fit according to HIS WILL ONLY period...remember "the flesh profits nothing"

Veretax
Dec 8th 2008, 03:01 PM
its an interesting talk, and frankly, I don't know where I'd be. I've contemplated what the Lord would have me do, and one of them was perhaps running for office. I've decided that this spring's City Council election is probably too soon for me to be ready for that, so have put it aside for now, but if he is right, there will come a time, when people won't do anything but look at me as a loon for my beliefs.

HisLeast
Dec 8th 2008, 03:40 PM
You know what I find discouraging? The constant guilt free American church bashing. "The American church is asleep. The American church is lazy. The American church is afraid of persecution." I'm sick of it. Its just too darned convenient to point at the American church if you want a group to poo-poo. To add confusion to discouragement, I don't understand why much of the condemnation comes from Americans themselves, who somehow manage to hold themselves apart from the American church in their lecturing.

ON CHURCH
Perhaps I'm biased, by my church is all about working for the kingdom. People are busting their humps to be the salt and light in Chicago. Disciplined and rigorous apologetics courses to prepare evangelists. Great works with city food banks. They tutor children in the US' most notorious housing projects. We're also funding a wide variety of missions, both domestic and foreign. Our praise sessions are heart felt. Our pastors' messages are bold, disciplined, and scriptural. We pray .. and we pray... and we PRAY. And always an eye keeps watch on outreach. Having travelled the US for 5 years, I've also had the priveledge of seeing churches like this ALL OVER THE PLACE.

The American church is not dead. The American church is not asleep. YES, there are people within it who treat Christianity as a vague social affiliation, but they are not "THE church". The real body of Christ in America is awake, aware, and active. When trial comes, they will stand as a bulwark while the chaff blows away.

But until that trial comes, I wish... oh I sincerely wish... we'd be good enough to encourage each other, and exhort each other to greater works. Its as if we should all feel guilty or less Christianly for not experiencing the same terror Christians in Ossira, North Korea, and Sudan feel right now. More often than not, I see guilt trips being played and writing the good workers out with the bad.

The taste sits in my mouth like curdled milk.

Grace Alone
Oct 24th 2013, 12:19 PM
Good blog to follow on this is John McTernan (http://defendproclaimthefaith.org/blog/).