PDA

View Full Version : Need help with a study:the four horsemen always been riding..



moonglow
Nov 4th 2008, 09:23 PM
and if those line up with the seals and trumpets or not? Or are they unrelated?

I know there are some that think we have always been in a tribulation..that its ongoing and will be ongoing until Christ returns.

I had the strangest dream early this morning before my dog went and woke me up...:cool: Maybe God tickled his ear so I would wake up and remember the dream...who knows. But anyway a voice in my dream which I believe to have been Gods told me to look closer at the Black Plague and I saw the horses before that in my dream.

I read a post on here once that this person believed they had been riding since Christ. The first horse IS Christ..the rider carries a bow but no arrow...setting out to conquer. Everyone thinks because the word conquer is used it must mean something bad.

Revelation 6

1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Christ conquered sin and death for us.

Romans 8:36-38
36 Just as it is written,
"(FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Anyway..I really don't want to get into a debate of who this rider is..been enough of those...lets just say through us..Christ is conquering sin one person at a time and this has been going on since He rose from the dead...the other horses are war, famine, disease..these have also been going on since Christ...even before Christ...but maybe now with a purpose?

7 When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living being say, “Come!” 8 I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.


So I spend some time reading up on the black plague:

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/08.shtml

The Black Death
Another Description

From Agnolo di Tura, of Siena:

"The mortality in Siena began in May. It was a cruel and horrible thing. . . . It seemed that almost everyone became stupefied seeing the pain. It is impossible for the human tongue to recount the awful truth. Indeed, one who did not see such horribleness can be called blessed. The victims died almost immediately. They would swell beneath the armpits and in the groin, and fall over while talking. Father abandoned child, wife husband, one brother another; for this illness seemed to strike through breath and sight. And so they died. None could be found to bury the dead for money or friendship. Members of a household brought their dead to a ditch as best they could, without priest, without divine offices. In many places in Siena great pits were dug and piled deep with the multitude of dead. And they died by the hundreds, both day and night, and all were thrown in those ditches and covered with earth. And as soon as those ditches were filled, more were dug. I, Agnolo di Tura . . . buried my five children with my own hands. . . . And so many died that all believed it was the end of the world."

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/09.shtml
Official Reactions

Contrary to what you might think, the reaction from public officials, and from many churchmen, was that this calamity was not the vengeance of God upon a sinful world but was a disease. Authorities took what steps they could to deal with it, but of course their effectiveness was limited.

Cities were hardest hit and tried to take measures to control an epidemic no one understood. In Milan, to take one of the most successful examples, city officials immediately walled up houses found to have the plague, isolating the healthy in them along with the sick.

Venice took sophisticated and stringent quarantine and health measures, including isolating all incoming ships on a separate island. But people died anyway, though fewer in Milan and Venice than in cities that took no such measures.

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/14.shtml

at least a third of all the people in the world died.

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/15.shtml
Population Loss

Froissart's estimate of the population loss was about right, which is ironic because Froissart wildly exaggerated numbers in almost all his accounts. But the best of many revised estimates still put the overall population loss in Europe at about one- third.

This bears re-stating. The plague came to Europe in the fall of 1347. By 1350 it had largely passed out of western Europe. In the space of two years, one out of every three people was dead. Nothing like that has happened before or since.
http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/21.shtml
Historical Timing of the Plague

Worse, the overall climate was changing, with cooler and wetter weather creating lower crop yields even as the population was increasing. By the early 1300s we begin to hear of great famines.

The Hundred Years' War added war to plague and famine.

War was going on..dying by the sword literally then...then this disease moved in and people were literally dropping dead from it...also having terrible boils that burst...what does that remind you of?

Revelation 16
First Bowl: Loathsome Sores

2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

I realize this site only covers what happened in Europe so I need to dig further as many other countries were affected too. Anyway..thoughts? Additional information? anything?

God bless

ross3421
Nov 5th 2008, 06:46 AM
and if those line up with the seals and trumpets or not? Or are they unrelated?

I know there are some that think we have always been in a tribulation..that its ongoing and will be ongoing until Christ returns.

I had the strangest dream early this morning before my dog went and woke me up...:cool: Maybe God tickled his ear so I would wake up and remember the dream...who knows. But anyway a voice in my dream which I believe to have been Gods told me to look closer at the Black Plague and I saw the horses before that in my dream.

I read a post on here once that this person believed they had been riding since Christ. The first horse IS Christ..the rider carries a bow but no arrow...setting out to conquer. Everyone thinks because the word conquer is used it must mean something bad.

Revelation 6

1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Christ conquered sin and death for us.

Romans 8:36-38
36 Just as it is written,
"(FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Anyway..I really don't want to get into a debate of who this rider is..been enough of those...lets just say through us..Christ is conquering sin one person at a time and this has been going on since He rose from the dead...the other horses are war, famine, disease..these have also been going on since Christ...even before Christ...but maybe now with a purpose?

7 When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living being say, “Come!” 8 I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.


So I spend some time reading up on the black plague:

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/08.shtml

The Black Death
Another Description

From Agnolo di Tura, of Siena:

"The mortality in Siena began in May. It was a cruel and horrible thing. . . . It seemed that almost everyone became stupefied seeing the pain. It is impossible for the human tongue to recount the awful truth. Indeed, one who did not see such horribleness can be called blessed. The victims died almost immediately. They would swell beneath the armpits and in the groin, and fall over while talking. Father abandoned child, wife husband, one brother another; for this illness seemed to strike through breath and sight. And so they died. None could be found to bury the dead for money or friendship. Members of a household brought their dead to a ditch as best they could, without priest, without divine offices. In many places in Siena great pits were dug and piled deep with the multitude of dead. And they died by the hundreds, both day and night, and all were thrown in those ditches and covered with earth. And as soon as those ditches were filled, more were dug. I, Agnolo di Tura . . . buried my five children with my own hands. . . . And so many died that all believed it was the end of the world."

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/09.shtml
Official Reactions

Contrary to what you might think, the reaction from public officials, and from many churchmen, was that this calamity was not the vengeance of God upon a sinful world but was a disease. Authorities took what steps they could to deal with it, but of course their effectiveness was limited.

Cities were hardest hit and tried to take measures to control an epidemic no one understood. In Milan, to take one of the most successful examples, city officials immediately walled up houses found to have the plague, isolating the healthy in them along with the sick.

Venice took sophisticated and stringent quarantine and health measures, including isolating all incoming ships on a separate island. But people died anyway, though fewer in Milan and Venice than in cities that took no such measures.

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/14.shtml

at least a third of all the people in the world died.

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/15.shtml
Population Loss

Froissart's estimate of the population loss was about right, which is ironic because Froissart wildly exaggerated numbers in almost all his accounts. But the best of many revised estimates still put the overall population loss in Europe at about one- third.

This bears re-stating. The plague came to Europe in the fall of 1347. By 1350 it had largely passed out of western Europe. In the space of two years, one out of every three people was dead. Nothing like that has happened before or since.
http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/21.shtml
Historical Timing of the Plague

Worse, the overall climate was changing, with cooler and wetter weather creating lower crop yields even as the population was increasing. By the early 1300s we begin to hear of great famines.

The Hundred Years' War added war to plague and famine.

War was going on..dying by the sword literally then...then this disease moved in and people were literally dropping dead from it...also having terrible boils that burst...what does that remind you of?

Revelation 16
First Bowl: Loathsome Sores

2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

I realize this site only covers what happened in Europe so I need to dig further as many other countries were affected too. Anyway..thoughts? Additional information? anything?

God bless

Is there a possibility there are two sets of horseman? One set which is does the bidding for God the other set for Satan? I say yes.

The four horseman in Rev is a description of the final kingdom upon the earth ie Satan's which has not yet occurred. This parallels the description in chapter 13 as well.

I see the "four" a key in relation to the four hourseman and the four beasts being one in the same. We do also see four beasts in each kingdom of good and evil.

So four of them have been riding while there is still yet another four yet to ride.


Mark

vinsight4u8
Nov 5th 2008, 10:43 AM
If you consider that God speaks as to the rise and fall of nations, then note the voice heard in the third seal..... head next to Zechariah 6 and Deuteronomy 32:34,,,,,,,,,,the picture should become clearer of what is happening in Rev. 6.

We are watching events in the nation of Iraq.


Habakkuk chapter 2 also refers to a last days man that is as death and desires to be as hell. We can tell that this man will be Chaldean - or from the area of Iraq - as Habakkuk is writing about a vision that was shown to him.
In chapter 1,,,,the Chaldeans are to rise - and in chapter 2 Habakkuk begins to speak as to how he will go get on the tower so as to warn the people,,,,,but

God told him to write it down - at the end it shall speak.

moonglow
Nov 5th 2008, 04:13 PM
Is there a possibility there are two sets of horseman? One set which is does the bidding for God the other set for Satan? I say yes.

The four horseman in Rev is a description of the final kingdom upon the earth ie Satan's which has not yet occurred. This parallels the description in chapter 13 as well.

I see the "four" a key in relation to the four hourseman and the four beasts being one in the same. We do also see four beasts in each kingdom of good and evil.

So four of them have been riding while there is still yet another four yet to ride.


Mark

can you post the related verses to what you are saying here please? thanks...


vinsight4u8 If you consider that God speaks as to the rise and fall of nations, then note the voice heard in the third seal..... head next to Zechariah 6 and Deuteronomy 32:34,,,,,,,,,,the picture should become clearer of what is happening in Rev. 6.

We are watching events in the nation of Iraq.


Habakkuk chapter 2 also refers to a last days man that is as death and desires to be as hell. We can tell that this man will be Chaldean - or from the area of Iraq - as Habakkuk is writing about a vision that was shown to him.
In chapter 1,,,,the Chaldeans are to rise - and in chapter 2 Habakkuk begins to speak as to how he will go get on the tower so as to warn the people,,,,,but

God told him to write it down - at the end it shall speak.

Can you post these verse please so I don't have to read whole chapters to find what you are talking about? You can use this bible website to look them up then copy and paste: http://www.biblegateway.com/

Here watch this video..it helps explain better what I am talking about then I am:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFwhps88k4&feature=relatedRevelation 5:5 - 6:8 (Seals 1-4)

When we read the OT we see how first God would warn the Jews to turn away from their sins and back to Him...they usually ignored Him and then He sent other nations to conquer them...war came, death, famine, disease..it seemed to be the only things that got their attention (of course some of this they brought on themselves by their own behavior..natural Consequences you could say)

I think that possibly the horses have been riding in different parts of the world to get those people's attention...to get them to repent and to turn to God.

Its an ongoing process..

Have you ever noticed its the pagan nations that suffer worse from wars, famine and disease and natural disasters? Those nations closest to God aren't plagued as much...:hmm:

Of course no place is without these things simply because the world itself is affected by sin...and that won't be corrected until Christ returns.

God bless

Ethnikos
Nov 5th 2008, 04:27 PM
My personal view on the four horsemen is that it is a lesson about joining what might seem like a just cause, for example the Crusades. It is a warning to not get caught up in it because what looks great, at the beginning, turns into something very ugly.

third hero
Nov 6th 2008, 07:13 PM
Moonglow,
It is my opinion that many have assigned the horses and their riders positions that they are not to have, and by doing so, missing the interpretation of those signs altogether. They have said that all of the horsemen are evil, and thus assigned their interperetations accordingly, making the symbolic color white evil.

The truth of the matter is this, likened to the birth pang signs in Matthew Mark and Luke, the seals are simply the beginning signs of the end times. Unlike the Birth pangs, IMHO, these signs do not have the limitations of being shown in a single generation. These signs are to show us that when certain unexplanable things come to pass, like a global shortage of food or a global expansion of violence in places that are suppose to be peaceful, that we would know that there is a corresponding sign that we can attribute these things to. (For instance, global warming as the sign that the third horseman is unsealed and the school massacres and the increase in wars as the sign of the second seal being unsealed.) These signs are neither good or evil, but signs that God has chosen to show us.

For instance, the rider on the white horse. If the churches end up rising and overcoming the evils of this world, like causing the most liberal state in the union to reverse it's stand on abominable marriages, then this is the work of the white horseman, since the white horseman is the sign of the church conquering and seeking to conquer across the world today.

IN truth, the signs of the seven seals are not to be uncorporated into anything other than what the original Author intended them to be, the beginning signs in which we can understand the Lord is truly coming soon.

third hero
Nov 6th 2008, 07:20 PM
When we read the OT we see how first God would warn the Jews to turn away from their sins and back to Him...they usually ignored Him and then He sent other nations to conquer them...war came, death, famine, disease..it seemed to be the only things that got their attention (of course some of this they brought on themselves by their own behavior..natural Consequences you could say)

I think that possibly the horses have been riding in different parts of the world to get those people's attention...to get them to repent and to turn to God.

Its an ongoing process..

Have you ever noticed its the pagan nations that suffer worse from wars, famine and disease and natural disasters? Those nations closest to God aren't plagued as much...:hmm:

Of course no place is without these things simply because the world itself is affected by sin...and that won't be corrected until Christ returns.

God bless

Bingo. Looks like you nailed this one here Moonglow. My work here is done :thumbsup:

moonglow
Nov 6th 2008, 08:21 PM
Bingo. Looks like you nailed this one here Moonglow. My work here is done :thumbsup:

Does that mean you are going to retire from the end times forum now? ;) :lol::lol:


God bless

third hero
Nov 7th 2008, 04:25 PM
yup. it's time for me to go sip lemonade in florida wityh everyone else who retire from this forum.:D:lol::lol:

moonglow
Nov 7th 2008, 04:44 PM
yup. it's time for me to go sip lemonade in florida wityh everyone else who retire from this forum.:D:lol::lol:

hey no fair! How are the rest of us left here suppose to learn anything??! :note:


you won't leave anyway...;)


:lol:

third hero
Nov 7th 2008, 05:17 PM
nope, this place is my addiction, even if I get all huffy and puffy, I can never truly stay gone for long...;)

Ans so, :B

Here we go again!:lol:

moonglow
Nov 7th 2008, 05:22 PM
nope, this place is my addiction, even if I get all huffy and puffy, I can never truly stay gone for long...;)

Ans so, :B

Here we go again!:lol:

You need to join ET Anonymous...:lol:

vinsight4u8
Nov 8th 2008, 03:42 PM
Hey, thanks for the Bible search site!
What I want to put forth is that Habakkuk was given a vision of the Chaldeans coming in chapter 1. In chapter 2 - Habakkuk went to get on the tower to watch this prophecy come to pass in his day, but God told him to write it down - at the end it shall speak.

Habakkuk chapter 1 -

1The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see.
2O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save!
3Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention.
4Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
5Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.

"did see"
"will work a work"
"will not believe"
"I raise up the Chaldeans"

Chapter 2
"I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch....
v 2 "And the answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it."
v3 "For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak...

So the work a work vision of the Chaldeans coming that was shown to Habakkuk in chapter 1 is an endtime vision.

Acts 13:41
"...I work a work in your days...shall in no wise believe..."
V40
"...lest that come..."


This passage in Acts 13 helps us know that Habakkuk's vision of the coming Chaldeans still had not yet happened.

What did Habakkuk see?

Habakkuk 1:6
"...will rasie up the Chaldeans that bitter and hasty nation..."
V17 "...not spare continually to slay the nations?"

Habakkuk 2
V4 "...his soul is lifted up and is not upright in him...
V5 "...he transgresseth by wine...a proud man, neither keepeth at home,...desire as hell, and is as death...

A wicked Chaldean man is coming - he will be as death and desires to be as hell
=
the same names as the 4th seal rider of Revelation.

Habakkuk told us that this man will gather unto him all nations.

So what are the first three seals for?
God is showing us what to watch for in that Chaldean nation - as keys to know when it is almost time for the man of sin in Iraq.

One thing throwing people off is in the second seal - peace taken from the earth - does not have to mean the entire world.
It can mean a country.
Strong's
1093 ge (ghay);
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV-- country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.

vinsight4u8
Nov 8th 2008, 03:50 PM
Consider that only the fourth seal rider was named in Revelation 6. He is the man of sin. He is the last rider to be unsealed - because he is the ac out of Iraq-the last ruler coming from Iraq.

Consider that the horses in Zechariah chapter 6 follow a chapter 5 prophecy as to the land of Shinar.
Iraq

Shinar - the area between the Tigris and the Euphrates (rivers)

vinsight4u8
Nov 8th 2008, 03:54 PM
Using the OT as where to gather up some more clues as to wicked men that can scatter Israel - would show us that he would need more than one weapon to use.

such as - scatter Israel time comes when -
the wicked man has
a sword
hunger
pestilence
beasts

Not - just a sword or just hunger.

Only the 4th seal rider has several weapons.
During the 4th seal is when the seven trumpets will begin.
Just before the 4th seal or so - the 144,000 will be sealed by the seven angels.

moonglow
Nov 8th 2008, 04:00 PM
Hey thanks vinsight4u8 for the posts! Right now I am having 'allergy eyes'..burning, watering eyes and its difficult to read anything very long or detailed. Once my allergy medication kicks in I will come back and read what you posted. :)


God bless

vinsight4u8
Nov 8th 2008, 05:05 PM
Hello moonglow

I pray your eyes are better now. Is there an easy way to watch videos on youtube - other than a few words all chopped up at a time?

I believe that some look at the Lord Jesus as sitting on the first seal horse - thus going in the wrong understanding of the seals right at the beginning - because they started at the end of the bible instead of the beginning. Say a person began with Genesis - read book by book - on and on - and only then tried to make sense of the symbols of Revelation - how much easier that prophecy part would be - and so much deeper.

Zechariah was shown white horses - long before John ever saw one. Zechariah was told it as to a prophecy dealing with the four spirits of the heavens.
Shouldn't white then be showing us a spirit - a spirit that should line up with other verses in the Bible?

these are the four spirits of the heavens

white
red
black
bay

The black didn't go all over the world - but instead were going to the north country.
the land of the place of Shinar
/Iraq

The white horses followed the black horses - so both the white and the black horses ended up in the north country. Here they sit - till John watches the time for riders to get on some of them.
If the horses are in Iraq - then wouldn't these people have to be riders that mount them in Iraq?
Shinar - the north country has the horses - so the riders get on them in the north country.

"...in the north country by the river Euphrates."
Jeremiah 46:10

Jer.
10:22
"...the noise of the bruit is come...out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate...

=,,,Nebuchadnezzar was coming
from Babylon

moonglow
Nov 8th 2008, 07:14 PM
Hello moonglow

I pray your eyes are better now. Is there an easy way to watch videos on youtube - other than a few words all chopped up at a time?

If you have a slow internet connection what you might want to do is when you click on that link look at the lower left hand corner of the video and put it on pause and wait for it to fully load..then play it..it should play without stopping alot that way.



I believe that some look at the Lord Jesus as sitting on the first seal horse - thus going in the wrong understanding of the seals right at the beginning - because they started at the end of the bible instead of the beginning. Say a person began with Genesis - read book by book - on and on - and only then tried to make sense of the symbols of Revelation - how much easier that prophecy part would be - and so much deeper.

I have studied the horse both ways...I know some think the white horse is the antichrist, or rather beast...however its seen it doesn't change the rest of the scriptures or the meaning of the other horses though...


Zechariah was shown white horses - long before John ever saw one. Zechariach was told it as to a prophecy dealing with the four spirits of the heavens.
Shouldn't white then be showing us a spirit - a spirit that should line up with other verses in the Bible?

I had actually forgotten about the horses in Zechariah but so little is said about them I don't really see them relating to the horses in Revelation at all.


these are the four spirits of the heavens

white
red
black
bay



I don't see them being listed as spirits in the bible...it just says this:
Zechariah 1
Vision of the Horses

7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet: 8 I saw by night, and behold, a man riding on a red horse, and it stood among the myrtle trees in the hollow; and behind him were horses: red, sorrel, and white. 9 Then I said, “My lord, what are these?” So the angel who talked with me said to me, “I will show you what they are.”
10 And the man who stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, “These are the ones whom the LORD has sent to walk to and fro throughout the earth.”
11 So they answered the Angel of the LORD, who stood among the myrtle trees, and said, “We have walked to and fro throughout the earth, and behold, all the earth is resting quietly.”


The black didn't go all over the world - but instead were going to the north country.
the land of the place of Shinar
/Iraq

The white horses followed the black horses - so both the white and the black horses ended up in the north country. Here they sit - till John watches the time for riders to get on some of them.
If the horses are in Iraq - then wouldn't these people have to be riders that mount them in Iraq?
Shinar - the north country has the horses - so the riders get on them in the north country.


Ok what does Iraq have to do with the horses in Revelation? :confused

I looked up this bible commentary on the horses:
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=zec&chapter=001
Verse 8. I saw by night
The time was emblematical of the affliction under which the Jews groaned.

A man
An angel in the form of a man: supposed to have been the Lord Jesus; who seems to have appeared often in this way, as a prelude to his incarnation; see Joshua 5:13; ; Ezekiel 1:26; Daniel 7:13;; 10:5. The same, probably, that appeared to Joshua with a drawn sword, as the captain of the Lord's host. Joshua 5:13-15.

A red horse
An emblem of war and bloodshed.

Among the myrtle trees
This tree was an emblem of peace; intimating that all war was shortly to end. But some think these trees are emblematical of the true followers of Christ.

And behind him were there red horses
Probably pointing out the different orders of angels in the heavenly host, which are employed by Christ in the defence of his Church. The different colours may point out the gradations in power, authority, and excellence, of the angelic natures which are employed between Christ and men.

Verse 9. O my lord, what are these
The angel here mentioned was distinct from those mentioned in the eighth verse; he who talked with the prophet, Zechariah 1:13.

Verse 10. The man that stood among the myrtle trees
The angel of the Covenant, as above, Zechariah 1:11.

Whom the Lord hath sent
Who are constituted guardians of the land.

Verse 11. All the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.
There is general peace through the Persian empire, and other states connected with Judea; but the Jews are still in affliction; their city is not yet restored, nor their temple built.

It just doesn't appear to me these have anything at all to do with Revelation or the horses in them.


"...in the north country by the river Euphrates."
Jeremiah 46:10

Jeremiah 46:10
10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts,
A day of vengeance,
That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries.
The sword shall devour;
It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood;
For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice
In the north country by the River Euphrates.


Jer.
10:22
"...the noise of the bruit is come...out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate...

Jeremiah 10:22

22 Behold, the noise of the report has come,
And a great commotion out of the north country,
To make the cities of Judah desolate, a den of jackals.

=,,,Nebuchadnezzar was coming
from Babylon[/QUOTE]

Those last two verses are about things that happened in the past...I really don't know what point you are trying to make or what this has to do with Revelation...sorry.

God bless

vinsight4u8
Nov 8th 2008, 07:45 PM
Hello to you

You asked,,,
What does Iraq have to do with the horses in Revelation?

Most seem to skip the book of Zechariah - one guy (teaching prophecy) even told me that he did - as it was too hard. I ask shouldn't the entire Bible blend smoothly together?

KJV
Zechariah 6:1 "..there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains [were] mountains of brass."
Do you agree that the mountains are probably representing land - a kingdom?
a split kingdom
If you do, then what did Daniel see - that would help Zechariah understand this?
Daniel saw a statue - as to empires - the third kingdom was made of brass.
Daniel also saw the little horn will come out of a section of the Greek Empire.

I would think that Zechariah knew right away - the Greek Empire has a latter days type of prophecy - and he is about to see it.

V2 "In the first chariot [were] red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;"
V3 "And in the third chariot white horses..."

Let's stop there for a moment - as now we have colors of horses that match for three of the type used in the seals of Revelation.

red - black - white

V3...and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses."

chariot -of red
chariot of black
chariot of white
chariot of - grisled and bay

Now Zechariah doesn't know what they mean - so he asks.
V4
"...What are these...?
V5 "...And the angel answered [and] said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens..."

So I see that as
red - is a spirit
black - is another type of spirit
white - and so on

the four spirits of the heavens

Now just thinking about what Zechariah saw at the start of this chapter - he saw mountains.
- so the prophecy is dealing with a kingdom area
Out of the mountains would come what?

the spirits of kings

Empires need rulers - so out of the mountains of brass - come the latter days spirits that will rule the kingdom - some kingdom land that was under the mountains of brass - Greek Empire area.
Zechariah notes for us that the horses - black - go to the north country.
Jeremiah wrote as to the north country was the land of Babylon = the place of the Euphrates River.

So the latter days empire of the Greeks -will deal with the land of Iraq - and her spirits of rulers.

V6 "The black horses which [are] therein go forth into the north country..."
The black horses stayed in their chariot and ended up in the land of Babylon.


Zechariah notes that the bay horses went forth and sought to go and were told to "Get you hence".


What needs looked at too is the way that Zechariah chapter 5 ends.

5:11 "And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar..."

Why would Zechariah hear that a house )palace will get built in Shinar - and then with chapter 6 skip to a whole new thought? I say that it all is one continuous story. Shinar is to rebuild and chapter 6 shows when and how.
Chapter 5 ends with Zechariah curious as to where the ephah was being taken - to Shinar. He then turns for chapter 6 and watches the events of the north country land.

moonglow
Nov 8th 2008, 08:57 PM
vinsight4u8..I am sorry but you really have me lost. Why would you think the whole bible would be about the book of Revelation?

I checked several bible translations and none says those horses are spirits.

I really don't understand what you are talking about. Sorry!


God bless

vinsight4u8
Nov 8th 2008, 11:35 PM
Hi moonglow

Did you look up in the KJV Zec. 6:5?

"And the angel answered and said unto me, These [are] the four spirits of the heavens..."

Why is the whole bible leading us to the book of Revelation?
Because the prophets build on one another's messages.

vinsight4u8
Nov 16th 2008, 02:56 PM
In Rev. 19 - John saw Jesus riding on white because He was to judge righteously.

in righteousness
He judgeth
,,,
just as in Judges 5 - it shows those that rule, judge righteoulsy and sit on white


So in the time of the first seal -must sit a ruler for a place that judges righteously.

The nation saw the time of King Faisal of Iraq.

moonglow
Nov 16th 2008, 04:37 PM
Sorry I haven't gotten back to this...got side tracked on other threads...lol. I have a pretty busy day ahead today so I don't know if I will be able to post anything worth while on this until tomorrow. Thanks for your help. :)


God bless