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IMINXTC
Nov 7th 2008, 11:56 PM
WordNetDaily Exclusive, Oct 3, 2008
by Bob Unruh:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=76671

including link to TroubleWithTextbooks.org
and American Textbook Council.

pinky
Nov 8th 2008, 02:18 AM
Perhaps the idea that Jesus is a Palestinian comes from the NT passages in which He described as coming from Galilee???


Just a guess.

Ashley274
Nov 8th 2008, 02:27 AM
And so it begins.....I cannot understand how people cannot ...well maybe will not ....follow the the Word :rolleyes: just :rolleyes:

ConqueredbyLove
Nov 8th 2008, 03:59 AM
Jesus was a Jew.

However, He abode in the land of Palestine during His earthly visit with us.

If one looks at a map of the time when Jesus was here, the land was called Palestine.

The north was called Israel, the south was called Judea.

However, the whole land was called Palestine :)

Does my forum friend have a map of the time when Jesus was here in his Bible?

Kahtar
Nov 8th 2008, 01:50 PM
From wikipedia.......
'Palestine' ( Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): Παλαιστίνη; Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language): Palaestina; Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language): פלשתינה‎ Palestina; Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn ) is a Latinized name given to the region by the Roman emperor Hadrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian) to blot out the name of Israel.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#cite_note-5)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#cite_note-6) In the Bible, the area inhabited by the Philistines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines) was known as Pleshet Genesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis), X.13. The Philistines were a seafaring people who lived in cities along the coast. During the Late Bronze Age, Philistia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistia) was located approximately where the Gaza Strip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip) and the cities of Ashkelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkelon) and Ashdod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashdod) are situated today in modern Israel. Philistia was a confederation of five city states: Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza), Ashkelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkelon) and Ashdod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashdod) on the coast, and Ekron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekron) and Gath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gath_(city)) inland.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#cite_note-ehrlich-7)

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 02:38 PM
From wikipedia.......
'Palestine' ( Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): Παλαιστίνη; Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language): Palaestina; Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language): פלשתינה‎ Palestina; Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn ) is a Latinized name given to the region by the Roman emperor Hadrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian) to blot out the name of Israel.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#cite_note-5)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#cite_note-6) In the Bible, the area inhabited by the Philistines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines) was known as Pleshet Genesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis), X.13. The Philistines were a seafaring people who lived in cities along the coast. During the Late Bronze Age, Philistia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistia) was located approximately where the Gaza Strip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip) and the cities of Ashkelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkelon) and Ashdod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashdod) are situated today in modern Israel. Philistia was a confederation of five city states: Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza), Ashkelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkelon) and Ashdod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashdod) on the coast, and Ekron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekron) and Gath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gath_(city)) inland.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#cite_note-ehrlich-7)
Note that the name change didn't happen until long after Yahushua's death and resurrection so He was Israeli.

Vhayes
Nov 8th 2008, 02:52 PM
He wasn't Israeli, He was a Jew, a Hebrew. Israeli is what we have today, not what was during biblical times exactly like there were no Palestinians in that era.

I guess I'm confused by the hoopla over a secular textbook that deals with various civilizations. That same text book talks about China and the various dynasties, Europe and how it became the manufacturing giant, etc. It isn't (as far as I can tell by looking at excerpts) promoting ANY religion, it is dealing with civilizations, cultures and the various religions within those cultures.

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 02:56 PM
He wasn't Israeli, He was a Jew, a Hebrew.

He was a Jew/Hebrew from Israel, that would make Him Israeli(not Palestinian since Israel's name hadn't been changed yet), right?

Vhayes
Nov 8th 2008, 03:05 PM
"Israeli" is a modern day construct, in my opinion. Jesus was born of Jewish parents (well, you know what I mean), raised in the Hebrew culture, therefore a Jew or a Hebrew, not an "Israeli". Or at least that's how I would say it. I would say you could technically call Jesus an Israeli but that just seems to identify Him with modern day Israel to me.

Modern day Israel is a secular nation unlike it's biblical predecessor which was a Theocracy.

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 03:16 PM
[quote=Vhayes;1859506]"Israeli" is a modern day construct, in my opinion. Jesus was born of Jewish parents (well, you know what I mean), raised in the Hebrew culture, therefore a Jew or a Hebrew, not an "Israeli".
You're confusing His race with His country. There never was a country called Hebrew or Jewish, it was called Israel in His day.



Or at least that's how I would say it. I would say you could technically call Jesus an Israeli but that just seems to identify Him with modern day Israel to me.

In the Scriptures they were refered to as Israelites(not too different from Israeli)... not Palestinians, Palestine isn't mentioned in the Word.



Modern day Israel is a secular nation unlike it's biblical predecessor which was a Theocracy.

Regardless on whether or not it was or is not a Theocracy now doesn't change the fact that the country was called Israel at His time.

Vhayes
Nov 8th 2008, 03:24 PM
I think we're straining at gnats at this point. I agree there was no "Palestine" when Jesus walked the face of the earth.

Back to the original poster and the points brought up; one of the concerns was this:


An excerpt from "World Civilizations," published by Thomson Wadsworth, for example, said, "Excepting the Old Testament's poetry, the Jews produced very little of note in any of the art forms ... There is no record of any important [early] Jewish contributions to the sciences."

Is this statement, in fact true? I'd never thought of it before, so I'm having a hard time with it...
V

pinky
Nov 8th 2008, 03:42 PM
Jesus was a Galilaean...


http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=146659

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 03:58 PM
Is this statement, in fact true? I'd never thought of it before, so I'm having a hard time with it...


No, I've got to run right now but when I get back I'll post some more on this if others haven't already chimed in on it. :)

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 03:59 PM
Jesus was a Galilaean...


http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=146659
Was Galilee a country or was it an area within a country called Israel?

Richard H
Nov 8th 2008, 04:08 PM
Jesus was not a Palestinian, nor did He live in Palestine.
In fact, there were no Palestinians or a land of Palestine until 1917 under the British administration of the land.

Jesus was born a Jew – being of the tribe of Judah and in the city of Bethlehem in Judea to fulfill the Scripture. (Mica 5:2)

Judea – that portion of the country of Israel known as the southern kingdom. (2 Kings 17)
In Matthew chapter 2, we can read how after fleeing to Egypt to escape Herod, Mary and Joseph and Jesus began to return to Israel. (Hosea 11:1)
When Joseph heard about Herod’s son and being warned in a dream, they went to the city where Joseph came from, Nazareth. (Luke 2:4)
Nazareth was in a region named Galilee - for the Sea of Galilee.

Back in 2 Kings 17, we see how the Samaritans were brought from Assyria to settle in the northern kingdom.
That’s why the area of the northern kingdom became known as Samaria.
The Samaritans were not Jews or even Israelites, but in an effort to avoid being eaten by lions, they began to practice a type of Judaism.

That was some 700 years before Christ.
Over time, there was an influx of Jews into “Samaria” in essence reclaiming the land promised to Abraham.
And so there were those of the kingdom of Judah who began living in the area of the northern kingdom – despite the presence of Samaritans.

I suppose there was a particular concentration of Jews in the region of Galilee, where Nazareth is located.

According to Numbers 6, to be a Nazirite means to be set apart for God. In other words: “holy”.
Jesus was certainly holy and set aside for God, and so He called Himself a Nazarene.

Therefore He again asked them, "Whom do you seek?" And they said, "Jesus the Nazarene."
Jesus answered, "I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way,"
John 18:7,8

"And I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus the Nazarene, whom you are persecuting.'
Acts 22:8



BTW:Long before Moses led the Israelites to the lad of Canaan, God gave the land to Abram who became Abraham.

So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his nephew, and all their possessions which they had accumulated, and the persons which they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan; thus they came to the land of Canaan.
Abram passed through the land as far as the site of Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land.
The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.
Gen 12:4-7

The reason why the land was promised to Abraham can be seen back in Genesis chapter 9, during the time of Noah.
Ham is the father of Canaan (verse 18)

And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Genesis 9:20-27

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 08:35 PM
I think we're straining at gnats at this point. I agree there was no "Palestine" when Jesus walked the face of the earth.

Back to the original poster and the points brought up; one of the concerns was this:

Is this statement, in fact true? I'd never thought of it before, so I'm having a hard time with it...
V
Here are some websites that show just how much the Jews have contributed to society...

http://www.jinfo.org/Biomedical_Research.html

"Jews have accounted for more than 40% of US Nobel Prizes in medicine and constitute over one-third of the combined membership of the life sciences divisions of the US National Academy of Sciences and its affiliated Institute of Medicine."

http://judaism.about.com/od/culture/a/contribution.htm

http://www.jewishachievement.com/about/about.html

ConqueredbyLove
Nov 8th 2008, 10:34 PM
Jesus was not a Palestinian, nor did He live in Palestine.
In fact, there were no Palestinians or a land of Palestine until 1917 under the British administration of the land.

Jesus was born a Jew – being of the tribe of Judah and in the city of Bethlehem in Judea to fulfill the Scripture. (Mica 5:2)

Judea – that portion of the country of Israel known as the southern kingdom. (2 Kings 17)
In Matthew chapter 2, we can read how after fleeing to Egypt to escape Herod, Mary and Joseph and Jesus began to return to Israel. (Hosea 11:1)
When Joseph heard about Herod’s son and being warned in a dream, they went to the city where Joseph came from, Nazareth. (Luke 2:4)
Nazareth was in a region named Galilee - for the Sea of Galilee.

Back in 2 Kings 17, we see how the Samaritans were brought from Assyria to settle in the northern kingdom.
That’s why the area of the northern kingdom became known as Samaria.
The Samaritans were not Jews or even Israelites, but in an effort to avoid being eaten by lions, they began to practice a type of Judaism.

That was some 700 years before Christ.
Over time, there was an influx of Jews into “Samaria” in essence reclaiming the land promised to Abraham.
And so there were those of the kingdom of Judah who began living in the area of the northern kingdom – despite the presence of Samaritans.

I suppose there was a particular concentration of Jews in the region of Galilee, where Nazareth is located.

According to Numbers 6, to be a Nazirite means to be set apart for God. In other words: “holy”.
Jesus was certainly holy and set aside for God, and so He called Himself a Nazarene.

Therefore He again asked them, "Whom do you seek?" And they said, "Jesus the Nazarene."
Jesus answered, "I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way,"
John 18:7,8

"And I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus the Nazarene, whom you are persecuting.'
Acts 22:8



BTW:Long before Moses led the Israelites to the lad of Canaan, God gave the land to Abram who became Abraham.

So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his nephew, and all their possessions which they had accumulated, and the persons which they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan; thus they came to the land of Canaan.
Abram passed through the land as far as the site of Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land.
The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.
Gen 12:4-7

The reason why the land was promised to Abraham can be seen back in Genesis chapter 9, during the time of Noah.
Ham is the father of Canaan (verse 18)

And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Genesis 9:20-27

Oh, my friend...Have you looked at a map of the time when Jesus was here? You might want to look at a map of what i was called under the Herods...

He was born in Bethlehem in Judea - southern portion.

He came from Nazareth of Israel - northern portion.

The whole area under the Herods was called Palestine....

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/palestine-under-the-herods.html

When I have more time, I will find a better map that shows Israel - northern Palestine....

ConqueredbyLove
Nov 8th 2008, 10:42 PM
And, for Pinky...

Jesus was not a Galilean. But He spent the majority of His time around the Sea of Galilee. The northern part of this sea was a major passing point between north and south and Jesus could teach many up there.

He also liked to associate with the common folk and one might note that most of His disciples were unlearned fisherman from the Sea of Galilee area.

So, He was associated with Galileans....

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 10:48 PM
Oh, my friend...Have you looked at a map of the time when Jesus was here? You might want to look at a map of what i was called under the Herods...

He was born in Bethlehem in Judea - southern portion.

He came from Nazareth of Israel - northern portion.

The whole area under the Herods was called Palestine....

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/palestine-under-the-herods.html

When I have more time, I will find a better map that shows Israel - northern Palestine....
Israel wasn't named Palestine until Hadrian switched the name(out of his hatred for the Jews) and that didn't occur until many years after Yahushua's day. The land is called Israel in the Scriptures... not Palestine b/c it hadn't been named that yet.

ConqueredbyLove
Nov 8th 2008, 10:59 PM
That is not true.

Probably the foremost expert on the topic Albert Eldershein who wrote the book "The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah" calls it Palestine during the time of Jesus.

He spent years and years and years studying the topic. I think I believe him;) Most scholars agree that his work is superior to all others on the topic....

Moderator...Link to the online book....


http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/book107.htm

Fenris
Nov 8th 2008, 10:59 PM
To call Jesus a 'Palestinian' is an anachronism. The Romans named the area 'Palestine' after the Bar Kochba rebellion was put down in 135AD. That's about 100 years after the crucifixion.

ConqueredbyLove
Nov 8th 2008, 11:18 PM
To call Jesus a 'Palestinian' is an anachronism. The Romans named the area 'Palestine' after the Bar Kochba rebellion was put down in 135AD. That's about 100 years after the crucifixion.

I would never call Him a Palestinian. But I choose to believe what I have read from the expert I linked to in my previous post.

No one will convince me otherwise and so it is a waste of time to try and do that with me....:) And it is a waste of my time to continue posting on this thread because I will not convince those who disagree with me. :rolleyes: To try and insist I am correct is only a symptom of pride....

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 11:22 PM
That is not true.

Probably the foremost expert on the topic Albert Eldershein who wrote the book "The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah" calls it Palestine during the time of Jesus.

He spent years and years and years studying the topic. I think I believe him;) Most scholars agree that his work is superior to all others on the topic....

Moderator...Link to the online book....



http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/book107.htm

Where is Israel called Palestine in the Scriptures? I'll take His Word over Eldershein's anyday.

Also note that Eldershein lived in 1883, not 33 A.D.

Vhayes
Nov 8th 2008, 11:25 PM
Here are some websites that show just how much the Jews have contributed to society...

http://www.jinfo.org/Biomedical_Research.html

"Jews have accounted for more than 40% of US Nobel Prizes in medicine and constitute over one-third of the combined membership of the life sciences divisions of the US National Academy of Sciences and its affiliated Institute of Medicine."

http://judaism.about.com/od/culture/a/contribution.htm

http://www.jewishachievement.com/about/about.html
Please look at the original quote - it said early Jews - as in pre-Christian era. I have no doubt there have been huge contributions by Jews in all areas over the past centuries. What I wondered about and had never thought of before was the early Jews.

Thanks for the links by the way. They will come in handy in another aspect of my cyberlife...

V

diffangle
Nov 8th 2008, 11:33 PM
[quote=Vhayes;1860007]Please look at the original quote - it said early Jews - as in pre-Christian era. I have no doubt there have been huge contributions by Jews in all areas over the past centuries. What I wondered about and had never thought of before was the early Jews.
Yeah that may be a little harder to come across b/c people who liked to persecute the Jews throughout history tried so hard to erase all things Jewish. But something we do have recorded still is the science and the art written of in the Scriptures at least. Also, I can't imagine that it's only been in recent times that the Jews all of the sudden picked up the "productive members of society" ball, ya know? Maybe Fenris knows of something more of the early Jews.



Thanks for the links by the way. They will come in handy in another aspect of my cyberlife...

V

You're welcome. :)

Richard H
Nov 8th 2008, 11:33 PM
Oh, my friend...Have you looked at a map of the time when Jesus was here? You might want to look at a map of what i was called under the Herods...

He was born in Bethlehem in Judea - southern portion.

He came from Nazareth of Israel - northern portion.

The whole area under the Herods was called Palestine....

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/palestine-under-the-herods.html

When I have more time, I will find a better map that shows Israel - northern Palestine....Yes, I looked at the map.

My resource concerning the origin of “Palestine” was incorrect. L
I’d side with Fenris on the issue, although I haven’t done any further research.

Why is it that Israel is not called Palestine in the Bible?

You and I are in agreement on the other two points. J

ConqueredbyLove
Nov 9th 2008, 03:01 AM
Yes, I looked at the map.

My resource concerning the origin of “Palestine” was incorrect. L
I’d side with Fenris on the issue, although I haven’t done any further research.

Why is it that Israel is not called Palestine in the Bible?

You and I are in agreement on the other two points. J

Still love those smileys, Richard :)

Free Indeed
Nov 11th 2008, 02:06 PM
Where is Israel called Palestine in the Scriptures? I'll take His Word over Eldershein's anyday.

Also note that Eldershein lived in 1883, not 33 A.D.

The Kingdom of Israel had been conquered and dissolved before the birth of Christ. At the time of Jesus' birth, most of what had previously been Israel had been organized into the state of Judea, a monarchy owing tribute to the Roman Empire (which is why Joseph went to Bethlehem in order to pay taxes decreed by Caesar Augustus).

Fenris
Nov 11th 2008, 02:32 PM
The Kingdom of Israel had been conquered and dissolved before the birth of Christ.
I don't know if 'conquered' is the right word, since the Romans were essentially invited in around 63BC. But still, they didn't rename the country 'Palestine' until after the Bar Kochba rebellion was put down around 135AD. So it's still an anachronism to call him a 'Palestinian' since there was no such place during his lifetime.

Richard H
Nov 11th 2008, 02:40 PM
I don't know if 'conquered' is the right word, since the Romans were essentially invited in around 63BC.
...That's interesting, Fenris.
If this is not too off topic - why were they invited in?
Protection?

'Just curious. Perhaps a sentence or two. :)

Fenris
Nov 11th 2008, 02:55 PM
That's interesting, Fenris.
If this is not too off topic - why were they invited in?
Protection?

'Just curious. Perhaps a sentence or two. :)The short version- two brothers had a dispute over which one was to be the king. They invited the Romans in to settle the dispute. The Romans selected the weaker brother, Hyrcanus II, and made Judea a client state.