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East to West
Nov 12th 2008, 05:27 AM
Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to West

σяєяυииєя
Nov 12th 2008, 05:36 AM
Hello East to West,


There is the example of Judas the traitor, 3 years with the Savior - what else could God have done? After sending fulness of God [Jesus].

God bless you

RoadWarrior
Nov 12th 2008, 05:52 AM
Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to West

You ask a most perplexing question. It is one that bothers me also. Someone told me recently it is because they do not know God, but they have a Christian lifestyle. Without a born-again relationship with God, there is not much defense against the temptations of flesh and Satan.

gpmosely
Nov 12th 2008, 05:52 AM
Unfortunately we all sin and all fall short of the glory of God. So how does this happen? Really- because we're human. And that is the answer to the question even if it is a long term perpetual sin. We simply are human.

Now how can you reconcile life with actions? Really- you can't. Only God can figure that one out, since he knows the situation, the hearts of the people, what happened to make the person do that etc etc and then from there God pretty much takes it up with that individual.

Now as a person how could you do it: Again, you really can't because the sin itself probably broke some trust and that in itself will take time to earn back. But again, it all depends on what the sin was etc.

AND have I ever been in a situation like that?
Yes. Yes, I have and it was not easy at all in any shape form or fashion. I happen to be a very black and white cut to the chase person and it was very difficult for me to handle.

East to West
Nov 12th 2008, 06:06 AM
Unfortunately we all sin and all fall short of the glory of God. So how does this happen? Really- because we're human. And that is the answer to the question even if it is a long term perpetual sin. We simply are human.

Now how can you reconcile life with actions? Really- you can't. Only God can figure that one out, since he knows the situation, the hearts of the people, what happened to make the person do that etc etc and then from there God pretty much takes it up with that individual.

Now as a person how could you do it: Again, you really can't because the sin itself probably broke some trust and that in itself will take time to earn back. But again, it all depends on what the sin was etc.

AND have I ever been in a situation like that?
Yes. Yes, I have and it was not easy at all in any shape form or fashion. I happen to be a very black and white cut to the chase person and it was very difficult for me to handle.

You raise excellent points, thank you. As a fellow "cut-to-the-chase" personality, I can't understand why someone who knew they were sinning and had a tremendous amount of guilt regarding their sin would just continue. When they know full well that there is restoration and forgiveness in Christ. Not to mention that the sin has destroyed this person's life.....if a person has the spirit of God within them...WHY???? Perhaps I just need to leave it in God's hands. I know that He is the only one who truly knows the heart.

Bethany67
Nov 12th 2008, 07:39 AM
In some cases, it starts when something causes a rupture in their relationship with God; maybe they incorrectly perceive Him as letting them down, maybe someone sins against them. This can turn to bitterness (described as a root in Hebrews - ever tried to get perennial weedroots out of your garden once they really take hold?) and anger with Him, that small nudge of conscience gets pushed down, and the easier it gets to run headlong into sin ...

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 12th 2008, 12:38 PM
Matthew 26:41 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=26&verse=41&version=31&context=verse)
"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
1 Corinthians 10:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=10&verse=13&version=31&context=verse)
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
Christians are humans too...haven't really master fighting temptation.


Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to West

Whispering Grace
Nov 12th 2008, 12:55 PM
Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to West

Perhaps they were never truly born again in the first place.

9Marksfan
Nov 12th 2008, 01:18 PM
Perhaps they were never truly born again in the first place.

Yes, this is a chilling possibility, especially if they have no guilt about their lifestyle - the verse is so true - "he who endures to the end will be saved". Judas is an example - so was Demas - some might even say so was Solomon, but I believe he finally repented (Ecc 12) - although not all do.....:cry:

ServantofTruth
Nov 12th 2008, 01:27 PM
I have seen the bad in many church going christians. What i find is a little encouragement and the embers in their heart soon roar up into a beautiful fire.

I'm glad i don't wear a sandwich board with my sin immediatly written on it by the only truely perfect person who exists.

I doubt you would call me saved or anybody if you knew their daily total of sin. Praise God for his forgiveness. SofTy.

Rufus_1611
Nov 12th 2008, 01:47 PM
Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to West Believing Christians can backslide, become entangled in the world and be just as worldly as the heathen. Though, they be saved eternally, if these Christians do not repent in this life, they will find out what it is like to fall into the hands of an angry God at the judgment seat of Christ.


"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." - 2 Corinthians 5:10

Metalwolf
Nov 12th 2008, 02:12 PM
Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to WestThat is something that only God knows for sure. Sometimes this 'backsliding' starts with a single catastrophic event in that person's life that effects their perceptions of God or of their worth to God. It can sometimes be from a mental illness, like depression that can lead to alchoholism or drug use.

I mention these, as sometimes the reason for backsliding is not always cut and dried, or always apparent. These reasons a person might not mention to others out of shame, and it can appear that they are backsliding for no reason.

Partaker of Christ
Nov 12th 2008, 02:25 PM
I don't know the person so I don't know the answer. There are some who have become proud of themselves and their walk. Perhaps others have looked up to them instead of Christ.

Perhaps their faith as been easy, in that it has not been tested at any real depth.

gpmosely
Nov 12th 2008, 07:26 PM
You raise excellent points, thank you. As a fellow "cut-to-the-chase" personality, I can't understand why someone who knew they were sinning and had a tremendous amount of guilt regarding their sin would just continue. When they know full well that there is restoration and forgiveness in Christ. Not to mention that the sin has destroyed this person's life.....if a person has the spirit of God within them...WHY???? Perhaps I just need to leave it in God's hands. I know that He is the only one who truly knows the heart.

Well, to be honest it may very well boil down to the fact that they were bored or even to the point that they never really did have a relationship with Jesus they were just pretending or it could even be the fact an addiction. I mean we don't really know, but we do know God knows. And that's the most important thing. :) Leave it in God's hands and he will take care of things as he sees fit, my friend :)

danielh41
Nov 12th 2008, 09:27 PM
I know from my own personal experience that people can start believing a lie that their actions, or lifestyle, or whatever it is that is sinful, is really OK in God's sight. Sometimes God gives such a person a wake-up kick in the posterior (like He did with me)...

JesusMySavior
Nov 12th 2008, 09:36 PM
I understand your plight and I've been there myself.

Here's what 1 Thessalonians 3:6 says :

"But we command you, brethren, in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us".

That's pretty firm. Now, if they were struggling Christians who wanted help, that's different. But those who are ignorant of the Gospel and are in constant sin and are bearing no fruit, especially leaders, stay away from them. That doesn't mean hate them, just don't hang out with them lest the unrighteousness gets into your mind and makes you sacrifice your Godly convictions.

RoadWarrior
Nov 12th 2008, 10:37 PM
A friend just told me a story that happened in her family. A woman went to a pastor for counseling, and during the counseling she instigated a relationship with him. The result was that a pastorate was destroyed, two families were wrecked, and the couple married, but for 12 years he could not even talk about anything to do with God. My friend continued to pray for him during that time. A song would come to her mind whenever she prayed for him, she remembers two lines of it:

There is a river deep within
That will cleanse a soul from sin.

She believed that the man would ultimately be saved and returned to God, in spite of his deep and crippling guilt. It took 12 years, but it happened. It took a death and a funeral (he was asked to preach the funeral service and he did). But ultimately his life did get turned around and he is now serving God.

This story tells me how to answer the OP. Pray for the person. God is at work, and your prayers help. You don't know how long it will take, but keep on praying and don't give up.

East to West
Nov 13th 2008, 04:20 AM
I understand your plight and I've been there myself.

Here's what 1 Thessalonians 3:6 says :

"But we command you, brethren, in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us".

That's pretty firm. Now, if they were struggling Christians who wanted help, that's different. But those who are ignorant of the Gospel and are in constant sin and are bearing no fruit, especially leaders, stay away from them. That doesn't mean hate them, just don't hang out with them lest the unrighteousness gets into your mind and makes you sacrifice your Godly convictions.

Hmmm... thanks for your post. I had thought of that particular verse yet. I will certainly be doing some more reading to see how applicable it is to this particular situation. I have struggled greatly with my attitude towards this particular individual. He is decidedly not a friend to me, but I try as best I can to still show kindness and respect to him. But I struggle with anger towards him because of the hurt he has caused to people I care about. So, it's been a learning experience for me for sure.

chad
Nov 13th 2008, 05:15 AM
People are just human and they can fall, be tempted or they can go astray or succum to weakness. It happens. We try as christians to live a blameless life before God, but the reality is sometimes we fail.

One day i was watching a movie that bought tears to my eyes. It was about the catholic church covering up abuses of priests who had molested children within the church. The offending was so bad, that it caused some of the parishoners who were in the catholic faith all thier life, to want to renounce the gospel and give up thier faith, becuase of the hypcropsy.

This video disturbed me alot, and bought tears to my eyes. I went away and spent some time praying to God about this, as I could not reconcile the actions of those priests and the victims.

The answer to my prayers came, through a verse.

(1 Cor 4:5 NIV) Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.


God also revealed to me what would happen to those priests, but I will not share it on here. Those people who were victims, Gods knows, and my word of encouragement is keep up the faith-God knows and those catholic priests who abused innocent children will not get away with it.


Chad



Have you even been in a situation where you simply cannot reconcile a person's life-long profession of faith with their terrible actions? I fully understand that we are all sinful and fully capable to making terrible choices. But, I am talking about long-term, perpetual, appalling sin. I can't understand it. How can someone who has lived a Christ-filled life, had a God-glorifying marriage and raised solid, Christian children get so backslidden that they have almost become a different person. How does that happen?

East to West

golfjack
Nov 13th 2008, 07:12 PM
Perhaps, when we get born again, there is no follow-up. I know this happened to me, and I floundered for 19 years. You see, I was a Catholic who never studied the Bible. Not until, I joined a Word of Faith in Az, and the Pastor encouraged me to study the Bible, and most importantly renew my mind and make my body a living sacrifice unto God, that I really started to grow in Christ. I believe we should line up our souls and body with our recreated spirits as best we can. Believe, making Bible study an everyday event will change you.

Peace, Golfjack:pp