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poochie
Nov 14th 2008, 01:21 AM
I am preparing my lesson/challenge (10-15 Minutes) for my soul winning ministry tomorrow. My challenge is to strive others to think about others and if they have resources to help those in need. Looking at the context alone one would only conclude that Christians are to only help brothers and sister sin the faith, however my challenge is for my group to not only help brothers and sisters, but unbelievers as well. But to come to my interpretation I am not using pure exegesis but also Biblical Theology. I found passages in the synoptics (Lk 3:11 & Mt 10:8) to aide my conclusion.

I am aware of LandMark Baptists and others that believe that the Bible does not teach that disciples are to minister and aide the world. Does anyone else have any passages to offer? Thanks..

I like to get input. Since I am speaking to Fundamentalists whom all agree with me, I dont think anyone will challenge my conclusion, so why I come here.

poochie
Nov 14th 2008, 01:29 AM
The ESV Translates James 2:15 "poorly clothed" while the KJV/NKJV translate "naked" and the NIV/NASB translate "without clothing."

I wonder if the ESV translation team took a liberty and paraphrased this word instead of translating the text literally. The ESV will occasionally paraphrase in places and take liberties with the text in places. Definately not as literal as the NASB but still a worthy translation.

I do not know Greek nor have I taken any such courses in the languages as of yet. But I can vouch that the ESV rendering to help those who are poorly clothed is far more aplicable than the other translations rendering to help only those that are naked and without clothing.

What do you say?

Levin
Nov 17th 2008, 05:55 PM
I think that the ESV is preserving the intent, which is to use exaggeration to prove a point. "Naked," is being used here as hyperbole for poor, so the ESV toned down the hyperbole to make it more understandable, I think. Hope this helps.

Levin

Veretax
Nov 18th 2008, 02:49 PM
I use the new King james, but Consider this passage from Matthew 25
Mt 25:45 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=mt+25:45&version=nkj&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) - Show Context (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+25:45&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1)Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Of course reading that alone is dangreous look at the context that precedes that verse:

Matt 25:34-44

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 Then they also will answer Him, F141 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+25:45&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1#F141) saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'


Seems clear that we are to be kind even to Strangers.

Teke
Nov 18th 2008, 04:36 PM
My challenge is to strive others to think about others and if they have resources to help those in need. Looking at the context alone one would only conclude that Christians are to only help brothers and sister sin the faith, however my challenge is for my group to not only help brothers and sisters, but unbelievers as well. But to come to my interpretation I am not using pure exegesis but also Biblical Theology. I found passages in the synoptics (Lk 3:11 & Mt 10:8) to aide my conclusion.



St Maximus the Confessor said well on these verses (James 2:14-19) "Do not say you are the temple of the Lord, writes Jeremiah (Jer. 7:4); nor should you say that faith alone in our Lord Jesus Christ can save you, for this is impossible unless you acquire love for Him through your works. As for faith by itself, 'the devils also believe and tremble'."

1 John 3:17,18 also relates to what you are teaching.

"But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him.
My little children let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth." NKJV

parsonsmom
Feb 17th 2009, 04:24 AM
I am preparing my lesson/challenge (10-15 Minutes) for my soul winning ministry tomorrow. My challenge is to strive others to think about others and if they have resources to help those in need. Looking at the context alone one would only conclude that Christians are to only help brothers and sister sin the faith, however my challenge is for my group to not only help brothers and sisters, but unbelievers as well. But to come to my interpretation I am not using pure exegesis but also Biblical Theology. I found passages in the synoptics (Lk 3:11 & Mt 10:8) to aide my conclusion.

I am aware of LandMark Baptists and others that believe that the Bible does not teach that disciples are to minister and aide the world. Does anyone else have any passages to offer? Thanks..

I like to get input. Since I am speaking to Fundamentalists whom all agree with me, I dont think anyone will challenge my conclusion, so why I come here.

************************************************** *************

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
************************************************** *************************

There is one body and one Spirit, just as there is also one hope that be longs to the calling you received, There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of us all, Who is above all, Sovereign over all, pervading all and living in us all. Yet grace, God's unmerited favor, His willingness to partispate in our lives, was given to each of us individually, not indiscriminately, but in different ways in proportion to the measure of Christ's rich and bounteous gift. Therefore it is said, When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, He led a train of vanquished foes and He bestowed gifts on men. But He ascended, Now what can this be, He ascended mean but that He had previously descended from the heights of heaven into the depths, the lower parts of the earth. He Who descended is the very same as He Who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He, His presence might fill all things, the whole universe from the lowest to the highest. And His gifts were varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us, some to be apostles, special messengers, some prophets, inspired preachers and expounders, some evangelists, preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries, some pastors, shepherds of His flock and teachers. His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints, His consecrated people, that they should do the work of ministering toward building up Christ's Body, the Church, That it might develop until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the full and accurate knowledge of the Son of God, that we might arrive at really mature manhood, the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection, the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him. Respectfully, Parsonsmom.

Butch5
Feb 17th 2009, 04:29 AM
I am preparing my lesson/challenge (10-15 Minutes) for my soul winning ministry tomorrow. My challenge is to strive others to think about others and if they have resources to help those in need. Looking at the context alone one would only conclude that Christians are to only help brothers and sister sin the faith, however my challenge is for my group to not only help brothers and sisters, but unbelievers as well. But to come to my interpretation I am not using pure exegesis but also Biblical Theology. I found passages in the synoptics (Lk 3:11 & Mt 10:8) to aide my conclusion.

I am aware of LandMark Baptists and others that believe that the Bible does not teach that disciples are to minister and aide the world. Does anyone else have any passages to offer? Thanks..

I like to get input. Since I am speaking to Fundamentalists whom all agree with me, I dont think anyone will challenge my conclusion, so why I come here.

Hello Poochie,

The early church did not restrict help to Christians alone, as a matter of fact I believe it was Tertullian who wrote to a Roman leader 'we do more for your poor than you do'.

Emanate
Feb 17th 2009, 03:57 PM
St Maximus the Confessor said well on these verses


Is that a superhero?