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Saved!
Nov 14th 2008, 02:36 AM
I will turn 40 next month, so I don't have all that much life experience to fall back on. Also, I have only studied on the Endtimes subject for the past few years.

There are many of you with more life experience, and years of study under your belt. So, you all will have much more insight into this than I have.

I know that there are many things that point to our Lord's return very soon in my "figuring."

For example:

1. Bible prophecy (much seems to point to today)
2. Political events (Worldwide)
3. World events (Mideast Issues)
4. Some pagan prophecy (Mayan 2012)
5. Papal prophecy (Pope listings)
6. Some secular information (Arthurian legends)
7. Technology (chipping)
8. Dispensational theories
9. Islamic mahdi predictions
10. Financial / Economic situation

I am sure I could continue to name even more.

However, are we the first generation-to have sooo many people that are convinced that their time was THE time?

Weren't there periods in the past when His return seemed right around the corner?

For example:

1. The destruction of Christians by Nero
2. Hitler's rise and destruction of Jews
3. The Black Plague
4. The Middle Ages
5. The Cold War
6. The Great Depression and the Dust Bowl
7. Social Security number start-up
8. Pandemic flu times

Here, too, I could name more.

My point being....many of you have done extensive research....or remember times years ago in your own lifetimes when folks were convinced that the End was going to happen immediately.

Just kinda curious...it might help to put things into perspective for me.

wombat
Nov 14th 2008, 03:36 AM
I know that there are many things that point to our Lord's return very soon in my "figuring."
1. Bible prophecy (much seems to point to today)
2. Political events (Worldwide)
3. World events (Mideast Issues)
4. Some pagan prophecy (Mayan 2012)
5. Papal prophecy (Pope listings)
6. Some secular information (Arthurian legends)
7. Technology (chipping)
8. Dispensational theories
9. Islamic mahdi predictions
10. Financial / Economic situation
However, are we the first generation-to have sooo many people that are convinced that their time was THE time? Weren't there periods in the past when His return seemed right around the corner?
My point being....many of you have done extensive research....or remember times years ago in your own lifetimes when folks were convinced that the End was going to happen immediately.
Just kinda curious...it might help to put things into perspective for me.
Hi, Saved! Maybe a good analogy is to think of a jigsaw puzzle that was started by your great-grandparents, but not completed. The puzzle box is missing its lid, so no one knows for sure what the full picture looks like, but they have the title of the puzzle written on the bottom of the box, "Signs of the Soon Return of the Lord". They were able to put together some of the pieces of the puzzle in their lifetime and were convinced that they would complete it before their passing. But some of the pieces appeared to fit together, yet didn't. Others were single pieces they couldn't match up yet, but they were still excited because the pieces that they did put together sure did look like they matched events in their generation.

Next, their children (your grandparents) took up the puzzle where they left off. They added a bunch more pieces to it, and they too were very excited because they thought they would likely finish it before they passed, and again all those new pictures they built sure did fit with events in their generation.

Then your parents took it on, and similar things happened, and then your generation took it on. The thing is, with every generation that passes, more of that puzzle is completed and the full picture begins to make more and more sense and fit more and more with the current generation.

I am up there in years myself, and I know my own great-grandfather was looking forward to Jesus' return, as was my grandmother, as is my mother, and as am I. The best part is that there will be a generation that will indeed see the return of Jesus--in my opinion, that began with the generation that saw Israel become a nation--and I believe that, even though some of our puzzle pieces still aren't quite put together completely, we are seeing the fullest portion of the puzzle than any preceding generation.

By the way, as a history buff I have to ask you about the item on your list about the Arthurian legends. Would you share what you understand is relating to Jesus' return in those legends? Thanks!

daughter
Nov 14th 2008, 10:02 AM
I know when Kennedy was assasinated there were a lot of folks in Ireland waiting for him to recover after three days, cause all the world to wonder after him and follow him. Lots of people thought he was the anti Christ.

In the Crusades lots of people thought that the anti Christ would be a Muslim (Mohammed obviously being a false prophet) and the Reformation believed that the Pope was the anti Christ.

We have to remember that there are MANY anti Christs in the world, it's not surprising that people get confused when the world is full of Hitlers, Stalin's, Kim Jung-il's, Mugabes, and so on.

There have always been candidates for anti Christ. We'll remain a lot less confused if we keep our eyes on Christ, however!

dworthington
Nov 14th 2008, 11:21 AM
Isreal becoming a nation again in 1948, in my opinion is the main event in prophecy fullfillment.

daughter
Nov 14th 2008, 11:38 AM
You've got to admit, it's the most amazing thing to have happened. :D

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 14th 2008, 11:42 AM
:ppYup, I agree it's amazing to see how things are put into place at the right time and right place. GOD is at work ;)

Veretax
Nov 14th 2008, 02:22 PM
Isreal becoming a nation again in 1948, in my opinion is the main event in prophecy fullfillment.


Yet Israel did not occupy Jerusalem til after 1967? And still does not own it exclusively I think.

Saved!
Nov 15th 2008, 03:15 AM
By the way, as a history buff I have to ask you about the item on your list about the Arthurian legends. Would you share what you understand is relating to Jesus' return in those legends? Thanks![/quote]

OK. Don't laugh...because I can't remember all of the details, but....there are those that looked to Prince Charles as the Antichrist for a great many years. I think that has to do with his blood line. However, there are those that think that unfortunate role is going to fall on Prince William.

Prince William has several names, of course...but Arthur is one of the names.

Now, King Arthur's legend says that he will return from the dead to help England in its time of greatest need. (Did Arthur die of a head wound?)

Since King Arthur, it is my understanding that there has not been another King Arthur.

So, if Prince William is crowned King and takes the name King Arthur.....and England is thrust into great peril at the same time, it'd be quite a coincidence.

Not that he'd be the AC...but that it would be one heck of a coincidence that a King Arthur was in place to lead England right at the time we believe the tribulation would begin. In fact, Mods, I am not naming him as the AC...just pointing out that others have. If anything, I think he'd be more likely to play into the role of benevolence for his country-their protector and not an actor on the world as a whole.

For a long time, I myself could see how Prince William could have a tremendous influence if he wanted it...handsome fellow, potential King, son of beloved Diana...everyone loves him...

Anyway, just some of the notes I have kept in mind over the past few years of situations to watch.

---Not to mention, I always wondered if Prince Charles promised to abdicate the throne to William when the time comes in exchange for his mother permitting his marriage to Camilla....just a thought.

wombat
Nov 15th 2008, 08:57 PM
By the way, as a history buff I have to ask you about the item on your list about the Arthurian legends. Would you share what you understand is relating to Jesus' return in those legends? Thanks!

OK. Don't laugh...because I can't remember all of the details, but....there are those that looked to Prince Charles as the Antichrist for a great many years. I think that has to do with his blood line. However, there are those that think that unfortunate role is going to fall on Prince William.

Prince William has several names, of course...but Arthur is one of the names.

Now, King Arthur's legend says that he will return from the dead to help England in its time of greatest need. (Did Arthur die of a head wound?)

Since King Arthur, it is my understanding that there has not been another King Arthur.

So, if Prince William is crowned King and takes the name King Arthur.....and England is thrust into great peril at the same time, it'd be quite a coincidence.

Not that he'd be the AC...but that it would be one heck of a coincidence that a King Arthur was in place to lead England right at the time we believe the tribulation would begin. In fact, Mods, I am not naming him as the AC...just pointing out that others have. If anything, I think he'd be more likely to play into the role of benevolence for his country-their protector and not an actor on the world as a whole.

For a long time, I myself could see how Prince William could have a tremendous influence if he wanted it...handsome fellow, potential King, son of beloved Diana...everyone loves him...

Anyway, just some of the notes I have kept in mind over the past few years of situations to watch.

---Not to mention, I always wondered if Prince Charles promised to abdicate the throne to William when the time comes in exchange for his mother permitting his marriage to Camilla....just a thought.
Thanks, Saved! I had not heard this information before, so I find it very interesting.

Jude
Nov 15th 2008, 09:44 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/lighthouse.gif

Everyone here has had an idea about who the Anti-Christ is, I can tell you one thing for sure he won't stick out like a sore thumb. Since 1972 I've seen a bushel basket full of ideas , so where are we to look if we want to get an answer, the scriptures of course certainly not the media.. It doesn't tale a rocket scientist to figure it out, I posted an idea of mine but it was deleted for disturbing the peace because it looked accusatory. I can give you a hint, isn't he supposed to come out of Rome? There is your tip, not much granted but none the less its about all you'll need if your serious about knowing.

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

Saved!
Nov 16th 2008, 12:24 AM
Two other events that happened before my time...but I wonder if they caused a large-scale Endtimes watch:

1. Formation of the United Nations
2. Israel becoming a nation

....and, also the 1967 6-day war.

Were many people convinced during these things that we were only a breath away?

SAVED!

moonglow
Nov 16th 2008, 02:10 AM
Two other events that happened before my time...but I wonder if they caused a large-scale Endtimes watch:

1. Formation of the United Nations
2. Israel becoming a nation

....and, also the 1967 6-day war.

Were many people convinced during these things that we were only a breath away?

SAVED!

Well the idea of Israel becoming a nation as being part of the end time prophecies I think it fairly new actually...those before this time certainly weren't looking for that or they wouldn't have thought it was in their generation either...but they did believe that Christ would return in their generation. There are many stories of preachers in the past declaring to their church members the Second Coming was on such and such day...Israel was not part of the end times in this...I still don't even know what scriptures says they have to become a nation again before Christ's returns. I have only heard people say it....with no scriptures showing its true...:hmm:

The united nations were also not an issue then either. Hal Lindsey was the one that came up with these ideas (as far as I know)...before that, neither of these were signs to look for.


I know that there are many things that point to our Lord's return very soon in my "figuring."
1. Bible prophecy (much seems to point to today)

Like what for example?



2. Political events (Worldwide)

Can you tell us what exactly you mean..what world wide events?


3. World events (Mideast Issues)

Again,...what exactly? (sorry to keep repeating myself but I really don't know what you are thinking that you feel is part of the end times)


4. Some pagan prophecy (Mayan 2012)

I certainly wouldn't go by what some pagan's say..and there is nothing in the bible that says they are part of the end times...so this confuses me....why even consider pagan ideas? :confused


5. Papal prophecy (Pope listings)
6. Some secular information (Arthurian legends)

I don't know about either of these ...are they listed in scripture...:confused


7. Technology (chipping)

Why? Why would we have to wait for chipping when tattoos have worked well for thousands of years. People have inserted the idea it has to be something to hold our personal information and bank accounts to be scanned...none of that is in the bible...in fact millions of people in the world have no stores let alone stores with scanners. You won't find them in dumps where thousands upon thousand live for sure! Or in the jungles or the mountains were many live off the land..


8. Dispensational theories

Now I am really confused! Why would a new theory be part of the end times???


9. Islamic mahdi predictions

:confused


10. Financial / Economic situation

Where does it say in the bible something happens in the economy as a sign for the end?

I am so sorry for all the confusion and questions here but your post really lost me on alot of this stuff.

God bless

Saved!
Nov 16th 2008, 03:06 AM
Hi Moonglow,

I think I wasn't really clear on what I was trying to say in my OP. I am studying on the Preterist concept right now...I can see that as having merit...so I in no way feel that the list I have given are concrete pointers to the end being near, only that each one-valid or not-points to our lifetime being the "Endtime" unless, of course, the Preterist view is the correct one (and we are not allowed to discuss that here, so I am looking into it on my own).

So, to make myself a little clearer:

1. There are some Biblical prophecies that can be interpreted as speaking of current situations. Such as, the interpretation of an Antichrist that will rule the entire world...that wouldn't have been possible before now. As, I said, though...this depends upon interpretation and I am not qualified to interpret it either way because I have very limited knowledge and am trying to gain more as I go.

2. Political Events...same situation as before. Even with the G20 meeting today...if the Biblical interpretation of an Antichrist with the power to rule the world and control the buying/selling of the world, he would have to have a global network, and that might be in the works as we speak. Not, that I am saying that the Bible prophecy speaks to this, only that this is an interpretation held by some.

3. World events....such as the rapid growth of Islam. The global economy recession. There are more, but my brain is tired! Not that these events certainly point to the end....only that some of our contemporaries say that they do.

4. Some pagan prophecy. Of course I know not to put any stock in anything pagans proclaim...only that the devil knows he is coming to an end and may have an idea of when that would be....I actually had the Mayan prophecy in mind. There is reason to believe that they didn't actually foretell an end of the world...only an end to that cycle. Yet, it seems coincidental that that date is coming up and many other things point to a similar date.

5. Papal prophecy. Again, not Biblical, only anecdotal. There is a Papal prophecy, Malachi I believe, that lists a progression of Popes until the very last one. Dependant on the version, this pope is the last or next to the last. I don't want to go into a lot of detail 'cause I know it would ruffle feathers. But, I was familiar with the prophecy and what was called for with regard to this last Pope. When he was selected nothing about him rang true to the prophecy...until he chose his name and my jaw dropped. Still, maybe a coincidence.

6. I listed what has been said of the Arthurian legend. Secular, of course.

7. Technology-wise. If the Mark of the Beast is a future event, and I am not saying that it is, then the Antichrist would have to have a means of identifying his own by mortal means...chipping has a lot of people stirred up.

8. Dispensational theories. Again, anything to them? I don't know. I was once taught that the 7 churches stood for the 7 church ages and that we were in the last one, so our Lord would be arriving soon.

9. The Muslims are looking for their own savior to return any minute and the listing of characteristics of their antichrist matches with our Christ and their savior matches with our Antichrist. Now, that to me is spooky. I make no apologies for feeling that way.

10. The financial aspect. Many TV religious commentators continue to speak about the current crisis heading us toward a global economy that allows the Antichrist to come on the scene. Their opinion, of course.

11. I can see how folks might have viewed the UN as the step toward a global government for the Antichrist to eventually control.

12. There are those that pointed to 1948 and 1967 as the beginning of the generation that was to see Christ's return....to tired to outline why.

I forgot to even mention the fact that I have heard folks say that the earth is 6,000 years old and that the Lord will give us our Sabbath during that last 1,000 years. Again, an interpretation.

The true point of my OP was to say that there are many in our generation that have the above situations going and consider that proof that this is the end...and my question was, haven't folks for the past 2,000 years had current events going on that they viewed as absolute proof that their time HAD to be THE time?

I hope that I have cleared up what I was trying to get across....

moonglow
Nov 16th 2008, 04:05 AM
Ok...read this tomorrow after you have gotten some sleep! :lol: I know how it is to start to fade out...lol...I fade out many times a day..ha! I need a brain battery recharge..:cool:


Hi Moonglow,

I think I wasn't really clear on what I was trying to say in my OP. I am studying on the Preterist concept right now...I can see that as having merit...so I in no way feel that the list I have given are concrete pointers to the end being near, only that each one-valid or not-points to our lifetime being the "Endtime" unless, of course, the Preterist view is the correct one (and we are not allowed to discuss that here, so I am looking into it on my own).

Partial preterist is allowed on here and what my views are..or amill..one of those...:lol: I refer to alot of partial preterist work though.


So, to make myself a little clearer:

1. There are some Biblical prophecies that can be interpreted as speaking of current situations. Such as, the interpretation of an Antichrist that will rule the entire world...that wouldn't have been possible before now. As, I said, though...this depends upon interpretation and I am not qualified to interpret it either way because I have very limited knowledge and am trying to gain more as I go.

Actually I think it would be impossible to rule the world now! For instance we know so little really about China or Russia or the things that go on there...the little we know 'they' allow the world to know. They are cut off from the rest of the world for a reason....they are very controlling of their people have if you look at their land mass, they have alot of room for alot of people! Just doing a quick search...they have fewer people then I imaged... 141,377,752. Russia's area is about 17 million square kilometers (6.5 million sq. mi.). It is the largest country in the world, larger than Canada by more than 7 million square kilometers (2.5 million sq. mi.). Its population density is about 9 persons per square kilometer (22 per sq. mi.), making it one of the most sparsely populated countries in the world. Its population is predominantly urban.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

China: Population: 1,321,851,888
http://geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/chinapopulation.htm
Jul 30 2008
With just over 1.3 billion people (1,330,044,605 as of mid-2008), China is the world's largest and most populous country.

As the world's population is approximately 6.7 billion, China represents a full 20% of the world's population so one in every five people on the planet is a resident of China.

China's population growth has been somewhat slowed by the one child policy, in effect since 1979.

It was actually easier to control the world back in the first century..when the world was much smaller. Rome actually did control the known world...remember the bible focuses on only certain parts of the world...mostly the middle east..where Europe is now and some parts of Africa. Read this when you get a chance of the different meanings of the word, 'world' in the bible: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T9234)

When you read about all of Paul's travels in the bible, every place he went too was under Roman rule.


2. Political Events...same situation as before. Even with the G20 meeting today...if the Biblical interpretation of an Antichrist with the power to rule the world and control the buying/selling of the world, he would have to have a global network, and that might be in the works as we speak. Not, that I am saying that the Bible prophecy speaks to this, only that this is an interpretation held by some.

Ok if you hold to the idea the antichrist rules for three and a half years, he is going to have to have 6 billion people chipped in that time...many living in remote areas...plus three new babies are born every second in this world and most not in hospitals. To even keep up with the population growth would literally be impossible. Not too mention the manpower and the money...shoot their isn't enough money in this world to chip 6 billion people! Even if the AC had seven years...this simply cannot be done in seven years. Just too many people. Look at how long it takes to reach some people in areas hit by earthquakes because they live on mountains...took them months to reach this one group simply because of where they lived.



3. World events....such as the rapid growth of Islam. The global economy recession. There are more, but my brain is tired! Not that these events certainly point to the end....only that some of our contemporaries say that they do.

Since the world has seen economy recessions and depressions before and the antichrist didn't come...plus I see nothing in the bible saying that has to happen anyway...then I see no reason why any antichrist should come now.

4
. Some pagan prophecy. Of course I know not to put any stock in anything pagans proclaim...only that the devil knows he is coming to an end and may have an idea of when that would be....I actually had the Mayan prophecy in mind. There is reason to believe that they didn't actually foretell an end of the world...only an end to that cycle. Yet, it seems coincidental that that date is coming up and many other things point to a similar date.

5. Papal prophecy. Again, not Biblical, only anecdotal. There is a Papal prophecy, Malachi I believe, that lists a progression of Popes until the very last one. Dependant on the version, this pope is the last or next to the last. I don't want to go into a lot of detail 'cause I know it would ruffle feathers. But, I was familiar with the prophecy and what was called for with regard to this last Pope. When he was selected nothing about him rang true to the prophecy...until he chose his name and my jaw dropped. Still, maybe a coincidence.

6. I listed what has been said of the Arthurian legend. Secular, of course.

7. Technology-wise. If the Mark of the Beast is a future event, and I am not saying that it is, then the Antichrist would have to have a means of identifying his own by mortal means...chipping has a lot of people stirred up.

People have been stirred up about the end times for a very, very long time now..;)



8. Dispensational theories. Again, anything to them? I don't know. I was once taught that the 7 churches stood for the 7 church ages and that we were in the last one, so our Lord would be arriving soon.

9. The Muslims are looking for their own savior to return any minute and the listing of characteristics of their antichrist matches with our Christ and their savior matches with our Antichrist. Now, that to me is spooky. I make no apologies for feeling that way.

10. The financial aspect. Many TV religious commentators continue to speak about the current crisis heading us toward a global economy that allows the Antichrist to come on the scene. Their opinion, of course.

11. I can see how folks might have viewed the UN as the step toward a global government for the Antichrist to eventually control.

12. There are those that pointed to 1948 and 1967 as the beginning of the generation that was to see Christ's return....to tired to outline why.

I forgot to even mention the fact that I have heard folks say that the earth is 6,000 years old and that the Lord will give us our Sabbath during that last 1,000 years. Again, an interpretation.

The true point of my OP was to say that there are many in our generation that have the above situations going and consider that proof that this is the end...and my question was, haven't folks for the past 2,000 years had current events going on that they viewed as absolute proof that their time HAD to be THE time?

I hope that I have cleared up what I was trying to get across....

I agree! Every generation has thought it was there generation...and actually many in the past had a better reason to think so then we do!

God bless

Saved!
Nov 16th 2008, 07:11 PM
Thanks for your input Moonglow. I am revived and relaxed now! Had a GREAT church service today!

There is just sooooo much to take in with regard to Endtimes. There was already so much to learn when I was studying the topic with only a Futurist view, now adding the Preterist view...Whew! I have my hands full!

I am glad to have this forum.

SAVED!

carboy
Nov 17th 2008, 03:30 AM
An interesting point I heard about a year ago was the number of Jews being saved is increasing every year. Has been for the last twenty to thirty years. We would need to go back to the first or second century to find equivalent numbers.

An example being, in the 70s finding a messianic fellowship was not easy, or not heard of, but today I don't know of many cities with out one.

Meaning the time of the gentiles is coming to a close.

I'll search for documentation and where I picked this bit of information up.

TexasBeliever
Nov 17th 2008, 02:41 PM
I can't speak for the ones in the past as to why they came to the conclusion that the end was near, I can only tell you why many of us now consider that time here.
The generation that is to witness the end of days will be unlike the generations before it in two ways:
1. It will witness the rise of ALL the signs associated with the end and
2. Many of those signs are unique to that generation alone.
3. All signs will be on a global scale, not limited to one area.

*Here are some signs that did not exist in any previous generation:
Explosion of global knowledge via computer.
The potential to wipe out entire populations via nuclear war.
The emerging technology capable of tracking our buying and selling
by an implantation in our skin.
__________________________________________________ __________
*Other signs occuring at the same time:
Defection from the faith within the body of Christ.
Hostility to the faith from without.
The Chosen People (Jews) being gathered from all the nations back to the
land God gave them.
Increase in natural global disasters and diseases.
People in general becoming heartless and brutal.
People no longer listening to sound doctrine, "calling evil good, and good evil"
The world longing for peace.
Rise in the talk and capability of a global political government controlling
commerce.
Rise in forming a world council of churches.
Rise in violence
Rise in immorality.

Again the two things that confirm the end of days are:
ALL THE SIGNS WOULD START HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME ON A GLOBAL SCALE.

moonglow
Nov 17th 2008, 03:31 PM
Thanks for your input Moonglow. I am revived and relaxed now! Had a GREAT church service today!

There is just sooooo much to take in with regard to Endtimes. There was already so much to learn when I was studying the topic with only a Futurist view, now adding the Preterist view...Whew! I have my hands full!

I am glad to have this forum.

SAVED!

Yea there is and its really hard to change your point of view from future events to past events...at least it was extremely hard for me to do that...of course there are still future events to happen...obviously...but its still a mind blower looking at things in a completely different way...

now you know why I am so loopy! :lol::lol::rolleyes:

God bless

Saved!
Nov 17th 2008, 11:08 PM
Yes, Moonglow...it has been quite tough to keep things in my mind straight when moving back and forth from events being still in the future to events having already passed. It is an incredible mind-shift and certainly takes time!!! However, there was much about Biblical prophecy that just didn't make sense to me when I had only been exposed to the Futurist point of view.

I have to be honest. When I first began to visit the Endtimes forum and there were those that would enter a discussion and make the point that an event that I considered a future event had already occured, I'd get so frustrated with them!!! I'd think to myself "Get Real!"

However, I kept an open mind and began to look into some of what what being said and, you know, it wasn't such a far-fetched idea afterall.

Unfortunately, I know no one personally that is a Full or Partial Preterist. I have visited some very useful websites suggested by a fellow forum poster...but I am craving more information and not totally certain of where to start to get all of my questions answered.

ServantofTruth
Nov 17th 2008, 11:22 PM
As expressed on another topic by me tonight - people have believed they are in the end times before Jesus came, during, soon after and ever since.

Computers and modern communications just make imformation transfer quicker so people so build a stronger case.

No one knows - Jesus said.

As for Tango's explaination on the other topic of not the exact return but the 'end times', if we're going to say we live in the rough area when it could happen, when a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day for God - then i'm happy to agree! SofTy.

Roelof
Nov 18th 2008, 05:14 AM
I know that there are many things that point to our Lord's return very soon in my "figuring."

For example:

1. Bible prophecy (much seems to point to today)
2. Political events (Worldwide)
3. World events (Mideast Issues)
4. Some pagan prophecy (Mayan 2012)
5. Papal prophecy (Pope listings)
6. Some secular information (Arthurian legends)
7. Technology (chipping)
8. Dispensational theories
9. Islamic mahdi predictions
10. Financial / Economic situation



Saved

You summed it up very correctly
Please read my post:
Last Days - God planned eschatology and heavenly signs
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133998

Wombat

I like your analogy of the puzzle. I am sure by research that the puzzle will be completed soon

Josie
Nov 18th 2008, 05:53 AM
Hi Roelof, I follow your endtime threads and posts daily, unfortunately I can't have access to your link you provided.
I suppose this is because I read but don't post often. :(
I just wanted to let you know that I really take interest in your wisdom and knowledge of end times....Thank you!

moonglow
Nov 18th 2008, 04:01 PM
Yes, Moonglow...it has been quite tough to keep things in my mind straight when moving back and forth from events being still in the future to events having already passed. It is an incredible mind-shift and certainly takes time!!! However, there was much about Biblical prophecy that just didn't make sense to me when I had only been exposed to the Futurist point of view.

I have to be honest. When I first began to visit the Endtimes forum and there were those that would enter a discussion and make the point that an event that I considered a future event had already occured, I'd get so frustrated with them!!! I'd think to myself "Get Real!"

However, I kept an open mind and began to look into some of what what being said and, you know, it wasn't such a far-fetched idea afterall.

Unfortunately, I know no one personally that is a Full or Partial Preterist. I have visited some very useful websites suggested by a fellow forum poster...but I am craving more information and not totally certain of where to start to get all of my questions answered.

I can't remember if I told you or not but I am Partial Preterist...and I can load you up with tons of information! :lol: So you can blow a few more gasgets in your brain...lol...you can also start a new thread if you want and address it to the amills and partial preterist on here..our views are very similar...and requests only those with this belief answer as you don't want a debate...then you can ask, we can answer without it getting all confused by others telling us to 'get real'...;):lol:

When I first joined this board I was a die hard pre-trib rapture believers because that was how I was raised. I had no idea there were even other views! Then I got pounded by some members holding other views...and when I say, pounded, I mean pounded. They really weren't nice at all..which only caused me to dig my heels in further in holding onto my view...but eventually I started seeing things that didn't make sense...I saw how I was actually ignoring parts of verses because it didn't fit my view...

Like this verse:

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I kept ignoring how it said the last trumpet...we all know about the trumpets in Revelation...

Those members that pounded me ended up getting banned because they were so rude and aggressive, but what they said, stuck with me...I couldn't shake it off and continue ignoring parts of scriptures....and you know what the final draw for me was? As silly as some might think..it was imaging my pets left behind to go through fires, meteors falling from the sky, earthquakes, etc...(If those things are to be taken literally which at that time I still took them as literal) I had read a news article about a pet owner dying and the pets..a dog or something, drinking out of the toilet for water. And being near death before they were discovered simply because the owner wasn't able to get their food and water for them. I started dwelling on how my pets would either slowly starve to death or die horribly while the earth was assaulted by all these things. And it just nagged away at me...because I know God does care about the animals! yet no one that believes in the rapture ever mentions the pets left behind...

Plus I had watched the first movie of Left Behind showing all the dogs just abandoned because their owners were raptured. One dog wandering the airport alone...frightened..another out on a walk with their owner..the owner disappears and the dog just stays sitting there while houses around him catch on fire and sirens are going off and people are hurt...the dog was heart broken and just laid on its owners clothes and other belongings, refusing to move...:cry:

I thought it was awful! I couldn't image God allowing that to happen.

I have had people mock me for having these concerns about the pets saying well our salvation is more important...what a dumb thing to be concerned about...and on and on, putting me down for this.

But consider this...God created the animals...I don't think any thing He created He would suddenly shrug off as being unimportant...then He gave man dominion over the animals...we are to care for them.

He saved as many as was possible in the ark before the flood came...He could have just let them all die and started over and created new ones...but He didn't.

He doesn't want us abusing animals:

Proverbs 12:10

10 A righteous man regards the life of his animal,
But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

He cares about everything He created:

Psalm 145:9

9 The LORD is good to all,
And His tender mercies are over all His works.

Psalm 36:6

6 Your righteousness is like the great mountains;
Your judgments are a great deep;
O LORD, You preserve man and beast.

I could go on and on...but at any rate this set me to looking at other end time views where as before, I really wasn't willing to even consider other views!

The view I hold now could change too! I don't want to be so rigid I am unable to learn...that wouldn't be a good thing. But right now the closest fit is the Partial or amill view...

Here is one site you might want to check out: http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/Opry/2092/Destruct.html
The Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple

God bless

looking4jesus
Nov 18th 2008, 04:18 PM
Well here“s my point and bear with me just for a moment. If you take Jesus and Gods word completely out of the picture which I know as belivers you cannot do but just for fun do it and you look at the world today as far as pollution, what man has destoryed, food supply, over population etc etc there is no way that one can say that the world today is anything like its past. We are on the brink of something big is going to happen it has to just by following the normal laws of science. This worn out earth cannot take much more and that is in perfect line with prophecy and Gods word. That is the point ..What was that line in 2001 space odessy..Something wonderful is about to happen..well belive it..

No one that has any education in science and current events and the condition of the world is or can be postive about the near future..this world as we see it is on and is near destruction as I type these words.
This was not thde case 100 years ago or 2000 year ago so taking this fact you or at least many belivers can plainly see everything is in perfect alignment for Gods word and the end times.
God Bless
Randy

moonglow
Nov 18th 2008, 06:38 PM
Well here“s my point and bear with me just for a moment. If you take Jesus and Gods word completely out of the picture which I know as belivers you cannot do but just for fun do it and you look at the world today as far as pollution, what man has destoryed, food supply, over population etc etc there is no way that one can say that the world today is anything like its past. We are on the brink of something big is going to happen it has to just by following the normal laws of science. This worn out earth cannot take much more and that is in perfect line with prophecy and Gods word. That is the point ..What was that line in 2001 space odessy..Something wonderful is about to happen..well belive it..

No one that has any education in science and current events and the condition of the world is or can be postive about the near future..this world as we see it is on and is near destruction as I type these words.
This was not thde case 100 years ago or 2000 year ago so taking this fact you or at least many belivers can plainly see everything is in perfect alignment for Gods word and the end times.
God Bless
Randy

Yea it seems nature has a way of balancing things out when their is overpopulation...

Famine: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine)
Although most famines coincide with regional shortages of food, famine infrequently has occurred amid plenty or on account of acts of economic or military policy that have deprived certain populations of sufficient food to ensure survival. Historically, famines have occurred because of overpopulation or exceeding of carrying capacity for the human population in a given region; exacerbation of famine is caused by drought, crop failure, pestilence, and causes such as war or inefficient economic policies. Soil exhaustion, overpopulation, wars, and epidemic diseases like the Black Death helped cause hundreds of famines in Europe during the Middle Ages, including 95 in Britain and 75 in France. In France, the Hundred Years' War, crop failures and epidemics reduced the population by two-thirds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
The pandemic is thought to have begun in Central Asia or India, and spread to Europe during the 1340s. The total number of deaths worldwide is estimated at 75 million people, approximately 25–50 million of which occurred in Europe. The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% to 60% of Europe's population. It may have reduced the world's population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in 1400.

As gruesome as this is...after the Black death wiped out so many, those few left, suddenly had more then enough food! And a balance was restored..


I realize many think this world is over populated and we are running out of room physically but that just isn't true. Yes some places are over populated like Japan is crammed full of people...and some places in the US, and in other areas around the world but Russia for instance has tons of room...

Russia's area is about 17 million square kilometers (6.5 million sq. mi.). It is the largest country in the world, larger than Canada by more than 7 million square kilometers (2.5 million sq. mi.). Its population density is about 9 persons per square kilometer (22 per sq. mi.), making it one of the most sparsely populated countries in the world. Its population is predominantly urban.

Here in the US there are many states where you can drive forever and see no houses...let alone people...

If people used their resources better we could avoid alot of these problems.

But you are right..the very earth is affected by sin and won't last forever.

God Bless

looking4jesus
Nov 18th 2008, 09:48 PM
Yea it seems nature has a way of balancing things out when their is overpopulation...

Famine: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine)
Although most famines coincide with regional shortages of food, famine infrequently has occurred amid plenty or on account of acts of economic or military policy that have deprived certain populations of sufficient food to ensure survival. Historically, famines have occurred because of overpopulation or exceeding of carrying capacity for the human population in a given region; exacerbation of famine is caused by drought, crop failure, pestilence, and causes such as war or inefficient economic policies. Soil exhaustion, overpopulation, wars, and epidemic diseases like the Black Death helped cause hundreds of famines in Europe during the Middle Ages, including 95 in Britain and 75 in France. In France, the Hundred Years' War, crop failures and epidemics reduced the population by two-thirds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
The pandemic is thought to have begun in Central Asia or India, and spread to Europe during the 1340s. The total number of deaths worldwide is estimated at 75 million people, approximately 25–50 million of which occurred in Europe. The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% to 60% of Europe's population. It may have reduced the world's population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in 1400.

As gruesome as this is...after the Black death wiped out so many, those few left, suddenly had more then enough food! And a balance was restored..


I realize many think this world is over populated and we are running out of room physically but that just isn't true. Yes some places are over populated like Japan is crammed full of people...and some places in the US, and in other areas around the world but Russia for instance has tons of room...

Russia's area is about 17 million square kilometers (6.5 million sq. mi.). It is the largest country in the world, larger than Canada by more than 7 million square kilometers (2.5 million sq. mi.). Its population density is about 9 persons per square kilometer (22 per sq. mi.), making it one of the most sparsely populated countries in the world. Its population is predominantly urban.

Here in the US there are many states where you can drive forever and see no houses...let alone people...

If people used their resources better we could avoid alot of these problems.

But you are right..the very earth is affected by sin and won't last forever.

God Bless


No nO Moon Glow you just took one of my points you need to look at all of it. The earth is warming up, we ar erunning out of raw materials, we have polluted so much that many places on beyond help. There ar etons of other ones I could list. When you look at the earth as a whole it is very worn out because of mans abuse. It cannot last much longer it is like a car with 300,000 miles on it where noting works well anymore. Then you add on the weponnize virusēs we have, the nukes we have , the new diseases that are poping up all of this is happening according to Scriptute expodentally now this has never happened before with such frequency.

There hav ebeen many books wrriten by scienists that are non Christians telling the people the same story about the present condition of the earth and the people living in it. It is simply eyond being Naive to think otherwise but the truth is so strong that as a coping device people simply tune out the truth as they really are unable to grasp it. No if you look at all this you will see that it is very true the present earth is on its last leg.

As OR says all things being equal they the most obvious answer is the correct one.

Remeber when the anti Chrisit comes here he will have mountains to move in this regard and he will and the people of the earth will belive him to be a god. Well right now you ar eseeing the gound here being prepared for this very event

God Bless
Randy

moonglow
Nov 19th 2008, 03:51 AM
No nO Moon Glow you just took one of my points you need to look at all of it. The earth is warming up, we ar erunning out of raw materials, we have polluted so much that many places on beyond help. There ar etons of other ones I could list. When you look at the earth as a whole it is very worn out because of mans abuse. It cannot last much longer it is like a car with 300,000 miles on it where noting works well anymore. Then you add on the weponnize virusēs we have, the nukes we have , the new diseases that are poping up all of this is happening according to Scriptute expodentally now this has never happened before with such frequency.

There hav ebeen many books wrriten by scienists that are non Christians telling the people the same story about the present condition of the earth and the people living in it. It is simply eyond being Naive to think otherwise but the truth is so strong that as a coping device people simply tune out the truth as they really are unable to grasp it. No if you look at all this you will see that it is very true the present earth is on its last leg.

As OR says all things being equal they the most obvious answer is the correct one.

Remeber when the anti Chrisit comes here he will have mountains to move in this regard and he will and the people of the earth will belive him to be a god. Well right now you ar eseeing the gound here being prepared for this very event

God Bless
Randy

I think you missed the last thing I said in my post:


But you are right..the very earth is affected by sin and won't last forever.

I agree that at some point this earth cannot take anymore...the bible says all creation groans...

Romans 8:22
For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

Why would you think my post meant I was afraid you are right? That seems like an odd assumption when I know perfectly well what the bible says...this old earth will be done away with...personally I cannot wait for that day...when we get our New Heaven and New earth!

I want you to watch this video...this is why I don't feel the earth is ready to give up the ghost just yet:

Creation Calls -- are you listening? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwGvfdtI2c0)

you paint a very grim picture and yes in parts of the world it is grim...but does this look like a dying earth to you?

the point I was trying to make, which I apparently did a poor job of it this...people have endured famine, disease, war....so much over and over again and not only did the earth recover, but the people did too. Though yes, sadly millions died...:( As many that died though more lived.

This earth has been damage by so many natural disasters...fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, and yet repairs itself. Remember when Mount St. Helen went off? They thought everything for miles and miles would be dead for hundreds if not thousands of years due to the blast from the volcano literally blowing its top off. Yes it flatten trees, killed wild life and a few people and polluted the sky for months...a year later new plants were growing on the side of that mountain they didn't think would recover for a very long time.

I agree we are damaging the earth...natural disaster damage the earth because of sin corrupting everything...one day the Lord will do away with all of that.


Remeber when the anti Chrisit comes here he will have mountains to move in this regard and he will and the people of the earth will belive him to be a god. Well right now you ar eseeing the gound here being prepared for this very event

I don't recall that scriptures say the antichrist can move mountains. Nothing is said in scripture about him fixing world wide poverty...or repairing the earth, or stopping diseases. Lets not give him more powers then the bible actually says he has. As far as I know, satan can only destroy...not create.

God bless

looking4jesus
Nov 20th 2008, 03:10 AM
I think you missed the last thing I said in my post:


I agree that at some point this earth cannot take anymore...the bible says all creation groans...

Romans 8:22
For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

Why would you think my post meant I was afraid you are right? That seems like an odd assumption when I know perfectly well what the bible says...this old earth will be done away with...personally I cannot wait for that day...when we get our New Heaven and New earth!

I want you to watch this video...this is why I don't feel the earth is ready to give up the ghost just yet:

Creation Calls -- are you listening? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwGvfdtI2c0)

you paint a very grim picture and yes in parts of the world it is grim...but does this look like a dying earth to you?

the point I was trying to make, which I apparently did a poor job of it this...people have endured famine, disease, war....so much over and over again and not only did the earth recover, but the people did too. Though yes, sadly millions died...:( As many that died though more lived.

This earth has been damage by so many natural disasters...fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, and yet repairs itself. Remember when Mount St. Helen went off? They thought everything for miles and miles would be dead for hundreds if not thousands of years due to the blast from the volcano literally blowing its top off. Yes it flatten trees, killed wild life and a few people and polluted the sky for months...a year later new plants were growing on the side of that mountain they didn't think would recover for a very long time.

I agree we are damaging the earth...natural disaster damage the earth because of sin corrupting everything...one day the Lord will do away with all of that.



I don't recall that scriptures say the antichrist can move mountains. Nothing is said in scripture about him fixing world wide poverty...or repairing the earth, or stopping diseases. Lets not give him more powers then the bible actually says he has. As far as I know, satan can only destroy...not create.

God bless

Moon glow wrote
Why would you think my post meant I was afraid you are right? That seems like an odd assumption when I know perfectly well what the bible says...this old earth will be done away with...personally I cannot wait for that day...when we get our New Heaven and New earth!

I do not recall saying this and I would certainly not presume that you wree afraid but if I did I am sorry it was not my intention.
I know the picture is grim and will get grimmer for sure. I fel this earth would be more than lucky to last another 20 years that how bad of condition it is in.
God Bless
Randy