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mikebr
Nov 14th 2008, 10:45 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?

Reedan
Nov 14th 2008, 10:52 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?

Well, My response to that would be to ask Jesus to give you Faith and to save you, But from what i think, Jesus did not heal himself when he was dying on the cross, Instead he died for us and resurrected:)

God Bless:)

songladyjenn
Nov 14th 2008, 10:53 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?

Why do you think the two are related? What was the context of the question?

mikebr
Nov 14th 2008, 10:54 PM
Well, My response to that would be to ask Jesus to give you Faith and to save you, But from what i think, Jesus did not heal himself when he was dying on the cross, Instead he died for us and Raised in 3 days:)

God Bless:)

Yeah I think Jesus did heal himself.................? Or at least the Father healed Him or the Spirit or all three?

BroRog
Nov 14th 2008, 10:55 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?

Tell your mother that faith is not a prerequisite for healing.

Reedan
Nov 14th 2008, 10:56 PM
Yeah I think Jesus did heal himself.................? Or at least the Father healed Him or the Spirit or all three?

When? When he was dying on the cross he did not heal himself, He died for us, so how could he heal himself?

He resurrected:)

mikebr
Nov 14th 2008, 10:56 PM
Why do you think the two are related? What was the context of the question?


I'm not saying that salvation and healing are the same things but wouldn't you say the faith for each is the same?

There was no context she, she called me and asked me the question?

Reedan
Nov 14th 2008, 11:15 PM
huh?

This is not a question about salvation. Its a question about faith.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say:



the you say:



I don't get it:hmm:


Have faith, If you dont, Ask God for Faith:)
Repent, turn away from your sins, Turn towards God:)
Ask For Forgiveness:)

Amos_with_goats
Nov 14th 2008, 11:16 PM
It is not even our faith. We don't even get to take credit for that....
Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version)

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Italics added)

mikebr
Nov 14th 2008, 11:19 PM
I am saved, washed in the blood, proven by my works. Got the t-shirt to prove it, name engraved on the bible when I was ordained a deacon. But what in the name of Kermit the Frog does this have to do with my question?

songladyjenn
Nov 14th 2008, 11:36 PM
I am saved, washed in the blood, proven by my works. Got the t-shirt to prove it, name engraved on the bible when I was ordained a deacon. But what in the name of Kermit the Frog does this have to do with my question?

lol donchta love them rabbits ;)

to your question....there are good Christians all over that may be sick or handicapped or whatever, they may or have others pray that god would heal them....sometimes God's answer is NO. It has nothing what so ever to do with the 'amount' or 'quality' of their faith! :D

e are promised healing but whether it comes in this life or when we are resurrected and put on immortality is completely up to God's plan.

This is the short answer anyway does it help?

ps you shouldn't take kermit's name in vane hehehehehe http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/frosch.gif

BroRog
Nov 15th 2008, 12:55 AM
I am saved, washed in the blood, proven by my works. Got the t-shirt to prove it, name engraved on the bible when I was ordained a deacon. But what in the name of Kermit the Frog does this have to do with my question?

Your mother asked, "How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?"

The question presupposes that faith can be quantified, and that whatever amount of faith it takes to be healed, it takes the same or a greater amount of faith to be saved.

By analogy, the question would be similar to the following question. "If we don't have enough bus fare to make it to Needles, how can we say we have enough bus fare to make it to Vegas?" The implication, of course, is that if we don't have enough bus fare for Needles, we certainly don't have enough for Vegas, assuming we are leaving from LA.

Your mother's question assumes that supernatural, miraculous healing requires the same or less faith than salvation does. And the question seeks to probe the credence of a man's claim to salvation, if that same man does not have enough faith to be healed.

legoman
Nov 15th 2008, 01:09 AM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?

Hi mikebr,

God has given each of us a measure of faith. God is the one who saves us, we don't save ourselves...Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

RE: healing - if we aren't physically healed now, we will be fully healed later when we receive spiritual bodies. Its up to God and his plan as to whether we are physically healed now.

Cheers,
Legoman

markedward
Nov 15th 2008, 01:15 AM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?Physical healing is not guaranteed.

Jesus used it as a way to recognize who He was, but spiritual healing is the thing that is important, not physical healing. Who is healed and who isn't is God's will, but that doesn't mean the person who isn't healed isn't saved, it just means that God had a reason for them to not be healed.

σяєяυииєя
Nov 15th 2008, 01:29 AM
Hello мιкє,


My mother asked me this the other day.
How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?
Any thoughts? Well you know the story of the woman who anointed Jesus, in the meeting at Simons house:

Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Luke 7:45-50.

And the story of the two blind men:

And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it. Matthew 9:27-30

"How do we know if we have enough faith to be saved, if we don't have enough to be healed?"

One can pray for a sickness and if one does not get healed, immediatly it doesn`t mean that I lack faith.

There is a principle with sickness and when asking for material/physical things, one can get one of two answers I guess IMHO: A) No B) Yes - now I would add one: C) No yet.

But when talking about the salvation, justification by faith, the born again process, it is matter of one moment which is the oposite of the next process namely sactification:

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification.. 1 Thessalonians 4:3.

You can also look at the story of Job, who was a righteous man, and had faith and was not made whole, healed immediately. God had many lessons to give us through Job experience.

By the other side, every one has a measure of fiath given to him by God as we read:

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Romans 12:3

So since we are saved by faith as Amos quoted:


For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Italics added)

Then every one can be saved.

The Lord bless you

Firefighter
Nov 15th 2008, 01:43 AM
Great Post Markedward.

It is not always God's will that we be healed - Think Paul's Thorn and Timothy's ulcers

It is not the will of the Father that any should perish. If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins. No exceptions.

mikebr
Nov 15th 2008, 01:49 AM
Physical healing is not guaranteed.

Jesus used it as a way to recognize who He was, but spiritual healing is the thing that is important, not physical healing. Who is healed and who isn't is God's will, but that doesn't mean the person who isn't healed isn't saved, it just means that God had a reason for them to not be healed.

Is salvation guaranteed? What about people who are healed that are not saved?

mikebr
Nov 15th 2008, 01:52 AM
When? When he was dying on the cross he did not heal himself, He died for us, so how could he heal himself?

He resurrected:)

So you would argue against the idea that he ultimately heals all believers?

Walstib
Nov 15th 2008, 03:00 PM
How do we know we have enough faith to be saved if we have never moved a mountain into the sea.....

Apples and oranges.

Joe

Just_Another_Guy
Nov 15th 2008, 03:12 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?

Well, the simple answer is...we don't. We really have to depend on God's tender mercies in order to receive both. Think of Peter sinking into the ocean, King David, and countless others who could do nothing other than just wait for God to have mercy on them regarding their situations.

Walstib
Nov 15th 2008, 03:33 PM
I could have elaborated a bit...

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1Pe 1:5 KJV)

Faith is "directed" in a way. Faith unto salvation is different than faith unto healing or faith unto mountain moving.

Peace,

Joe

markedward
Nov 15th 2008, 03:41 PM
Is salvation guaranteed? What about people who are healed that are not saved?Read what I said in context of the OP. It was asked why people who are supposedly saved aren't all physically healed.

I was saying that people who are saved aren't guaranteed to be physically healed. The point I was making was that we can't point at someone in church who has been saved for twenty years and they've been in a wheelchair for thirty years and say, "Hey, you're not really saved, otherwise God would have healed your legs on account of your faith!"

As I said before... Physical healing is not guaranteed.

watchinginawe
Nov 15th 2008, 03:47 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enough faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?That is an Interesting question. :hmm:

The first thing I see as a problem with the question is the assumption that deficient faith is the reason for one not being healed. This makes faith the healer instead of God. God is the healer, not ourselves. This must be understood. If we are to receive of God healing, then we receive that healing in faith.

It is the same way with salvation. We don't save ourselves with great faith. We are saved by God's grace. If we are to receive God's grace of salvation, then we receive that grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Consider the following verses. I think they address a difference between healing and salvation very well:

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Our faith in Jesus Christ is a hope for something not seen in this age or world. The element of hope in this life can not be separated from salvation. Hope causes our faith to endure.

I Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

God Bless!

Diolectic
Nov 15th 2008, 04:43 PM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?Luk 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
The answer to this was basicaly, "you have enough faith, now do what your supposed to do."(Luk 17:10)

Healing or being healed is not up to us, but fruit of our faith, which are the works that prove faith to be alive & not dead, these are up to us.

Therefore, we must not mesure our faith upon healings, but upon the works which our faith produces.

Walstib
Nov 15th 2008, 04:55 PM
Consider the following verses. I think they address a difference between healing and salvation very well:

Your contrast is... in part...

Salvation unseen

Physical healing seen

Therefore apples and oranges?

If so, I like it!

Joe

mikebr
Nov 16th 2008, 12:56 AM
The first thing I see as a problem with the question is the assumption that deficient faith is the reason for one not being healed. This makes faith the healer instead of God. God is the healer, not ourselves. This must be understood. If we are to receive of God healing, then we receive that healing in faith


I would also say that God is our savior and not our faith. Is deficient faith the reason for a person being lost?

Vhayes
Nov 16th 2008, 01:15 AM
My mother asked me this the other day.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved if we don't have enough to be healed?

Any thoughts?
Hi Mike -

To me, this is two totally different things.

How do we know that we have enought faith to be saved
It's in Whom we have our faith that saves us, not the depth of our faith.

we don't have enough to be healed?
Do we have enough faith to know that Jesus knows best, even when we do not understand?

Hope that helps -
V

mikebr
Nov 16th 2008, 01:19 AM
Maybe salvation is our healing?

Vhayes
Nov 16th 2008, 01:37 AM
Maybe salvation is our healing?
Certainly our spiritual and eternal healing!

Jesus always knows what's best for us, whether it be physical healing or not. This life is but a blink of an eye.

V

watchinginawe
Nov 16th 2008, 02:08 PM
I would also say that God is our savior and not our faith.Yes, that is my point. Will we receive Him? Or will "we have no King but Caesar"?(John 19:15)
Is deficient faith the reason for a person being lost?No, I wouldn't say that. For the most part, I would say unbelief is the reason for being lost. We could dissect that and I think unbelief includes being unrepentant. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God Bless!

watchinginawe
Nov 16th 2008, 02:17 PM
Your contrast is... in part...

Salvation unseen

Physical healing seen

Therefore apples and oranges?

If so, I like it!

JoeYes, I agree with you and believe salvation and healing are apples and oranges.

However, it is not uncommon for these to be considered apples and apples. Many understand physical healing to be a promise (result) of the atonement. Now in making that case, healing is promoted to be equal weight with salvation. In other words, Jesus died for our salvation and our physical health (sickness, disease, etc.). Jesus has already paid the price for our physical healing. If that is the case, then healing is a promise of the atonement and therefore the lack of healing in man becomes an unreceived promise of the atonement. If salvation and physical health (healing, etc.) are equal weight in the atonement then the question in the original post is completely valid. I think the question contrasts the problems with the doctrine of healing as a promise of God: Spiritual vs. Physical.

God Bless!