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XStationCube
Nov 16th 2008, 03:50 PM
Think about it. Adam and Eve were the first two humans. They had sex to make children. How did those children have children? Considering they had to have had children, otherwise we wouldn't exist, they would have to have incest. Now, some people might say "But what if God made another human?". Not only is that not listed in the Bible, but even if God DID make another human, you have to take Noah into account. God flooded the earth, and everyone died except Noah and his family. How did THEY reproduce? More incest. Both the law and the Bible say that incest is wrong. Therefore, if the Bible is true, should we just stop having sex and let the Human race die out? :hmm:

Yukerboy
Nov 16th 2008, 03:58 PM
A virtual breakfast at Eat N Park says this degenerates to the "there were people in the earth other than Adam" debate.

To answer the question, Paul does say it is better not to marry, like himself....maybe the answer to your question is yes.

By the way, I love your handle. Maybe I should switch to AtariColecoIntellivision? :hmm:

moonglow
Nov 16th 2008, 04:29 PM
Genesis 1

27 So God created human beings in his own image.
In the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it.

Apparently not all sex is sinful...

Yukerboy
Nov 16th 2008, 04:39 PM
That proves that sex between Adam and Eve was not sinful.

However, what about Cain or Seth, or the other male children with their sisters, neices, daughters, etc...?

Also, not God tells Noah to let the animals out of the Ark to let them be fruitful and multiply, but he never tells Noah to replenish the earth :)

looking4jesus
Nov 16th 2008, 04:57 PM
That proves that sex between Adam and Eve was not sinful.

However, what about Cain or Seth, or the other male children with their sisters, neices, daughters, etc...?

Also, not God tells Noah to let the animals out of the Ark to let them be fruitful and multiply, but he never tells Noah to replenish the earth :)


Think about it. How can all sex be sinful that is just crazy thinking.
Who created sex..one guess God and did he create sex to be painful or pleasurable..right again pleasurable and why did God do this because in Sex when your really in love with your partner it is much more that a physical thing it is a bonding pleasure that is really reserve for when you are married. Sex is a beautiful expression of love when used as God words tells us. Of course like anything when abused and misused it can be a very negative thing for you and sinful. But the creation of sex to be used among married couples was and is a beautiful thing. It is sad toda that most men and women have yet to explore what sex really is and just get hung up on the lust physical aspect of sex which is only a small part.
God Bless
Randy

Yukerboy
Nov 16th 2008, 05:15 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm married.

However...

1 Corinthians 7:1 It is good for a man not to marry.
1 Corinthians 7:9 if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion
1 Corinthians 7:28 if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
1 Corinthians 7:38 he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.

Adam's children committed incest. Was it right? Even if Seth was "really in love with (his) partner (sister)"?

looking4jesus
Nov 16th 2008, 05:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm married.

However...

1 Corinthians 7:1 It is good for a man not to marry.
1 Corinthians 7:9 if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion
1 Corinthians 7:28 if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
1 Corinthians 7:38 he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.

Adam's children committed incest. Was it right? Even if Seth was "really in love with (his) partner (sister)"?

You really need to look at the context of what your saying ..for example incest in the wa we view it did not exist in the begining how could it unless you wanted a world with just 2 people in it.

The other very important fact is when you read Gods word to ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten you on the passage. Paul was speaking to a certain group of people when he said it is good not to marry. One of the biggest issues I have with many brothers and sisters is that they will lift a passage from scripture and then think it applies universally to everyone this is simply not true at all. Sometimes yes but many times there is a very specfic meaning to a passage and then a general overall meaning to the same passage.

Remeber here Paul is speaking to the 1st pioneers if you will for the beginging of Christiany. Paul knew what they were up against etc etc.
So one really has to take everything that is said and wrriten in Gods word in the full context it was wrriten and for the time of the world it was wrritten. If you lump everything all together you get noting but a bunch of folks following their own made upo stories in their own heads.
God Bless
Randy

Athanasius
Nov 16th 2008, 05:44 PM
Care to show where "incest" was a sin at the time of Adam and Eve (or Noah)?

Yukerboy
Nov 16th 2008, 05:49 PM
Paul speaks to all Christians, not just those who the letters were written to.

Paul says it is good for a man not to marry. Either Paul was right, or Paul was wrong.

Paul says that if you can't control yourself, you should marry. Once again, either Paul's right or wrong.

Paul then explains that marriage is not a sin, but being unmarried is better than to be married.

To say all this is for the "pioneers" of Christianity, then you must say that any of the epistles addressed to a certain group or church is non binding as Scripture.

Now, I for one believe that the children of Adam and Eve did no wrong in committing incest, but make no mistake that incest had to have happened for them to reproduce.


Care to show where "incest" was a sin at the time of Adam and Eve (or Noah)?

I don't think anyone has said it was. :)

moonglow
Nov 16th 2008, 05:56 PM
Incest wasn't declared sinful until later in the bible.



Is incest okay? (http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_incest.htm)



No, incest is not okay. Incest is the sexual relations between family members either by birth or marriage. God has forbidden this in the Bible.

* Lev. 20:11-12, "If there is a man who lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them. 12 ‘If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them."
* Lev. 20:19-21, "You shall also not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister or of your father’s sister, for such a one has made naked his blood relative; they shall bear their guilt. 20 ‘If there is a man who lies with his uncle’s wife he has uncovered his uncle’s nakedness; they shall bear their sin. They shall die childless. 21 ‘If there is a man who takes his brother’s wife, it is abhorrent; he has uncovered his brother’s nakedness. They shall be childless."

But some may point out that Adam and Eve had children and since there were no other people around, their children would have had to commit incest in order to produce more children. At the time of creation, the genetic line was pure. It wasn't until later, at the time of Moses, that incest was then forbidden as the genetic pool became less and less able to stand interbreeding. "‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD," (Lev. 18:6).

Paul made it clear staying single was ok...and marrying was ok...so what's the problem?

God bless

looking4jesus
Nov 16th 2008, 06:00 PM
Paul speaks to all Christians, not just those who the letters were written to.

Paul says it is good for a man not to marry. Either Paul was right, or Paul was wrong.

Paul says that if you can't control yourself, you should marry. Once again, either Paul's right or wrong.

Paul then explains that marriage is not a sin, but being unmarried is better than to be married.

To say all this is for the "pioneers" of Christianity, then you must say that any of the epistles addressed to a certain group or church is non binding as Scripture.

Now, I for one believe that the children of Adam and Eve did no wrong in committing incest, but make no mistake that incest had to have happened for them to reproduce.



I don't think anyone has said it was. :)

Yes and no. It is not a all or nothing thing. This is what makes the Bible for some so hard to understand, there are dispensational truths in Gods word, there are times and ages in Gods word. Yes of course there are many passages that apply to all of us and there are some passages that apply mostly to the group and time Paul was speaking. Incest was not incest as it is view today in Adam's time. The whole body chemistry in man during that time had to be differnt as to avoid anykind of mutation because of the closeness of the chromozones. This is why you have to look at the time periods when things were wrritten. If not then the Bible will not only not make sense it will be open to attack from people thta do not belive in Gods word and if you lump everything together in a debate they would win .

God Bless
Randy

markedward
Nov 16th 2008, 06:53 PM
According to the Bible, all sex is immoral.Have you read the Song of Songs?

Also note that the Bible did not say that incest was forbidden until the time of Moses, which would have been hundreds and hundreds of years after Adam and Eve had already begun having children.

First, consider that God created Adam and Eve, and told them to "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth." God's first command to mankind was to have children. But we don't see God saying "Don't have incest". God would have been incredibly misleading if He told the first two people a single command as this, which would have been passed on to their children, and then say, "Oh, your kids are having sex, I'm condemning them."

Second, Eve was created out of Adam. How much more "incestual" can a person get when they're having sex with someone that was made from them? Or maybe it's just a distorted way of looking at it.

Third, Adam and Eve had lots of children. Just for simplicity, we'll say ten (including Cain and Seth), five guys, five girls. They all marry in couples, and each of them has the same number of boys and girls. Now you've already got fifty children in this third generation, but most of them are cousins to each other. So let's just say that most of them are marrying cousins now. We get twenty-five couples, each has ten children, same numbering. Now there's 250 children, and most of them are cousins of cousins, in the fourth generation. Again, same formula. Now there's 1250 children in the fifth generation, most of which are cousins of cousins of cousins. We haven't even reached Noah's generation, and incest has virtually disappeared. And granted, I'm giving small numbers; a lot of these families probably had more than just ten kids each. So we're only in the fifth generation, incest is mostly non-existent (from an ideal standpoint, it probably did exist here and there), and we're hundreds and hundreds of years before any command was given by God saying that incest was forbidden. And even when we get to Noah and the flood, they had an easier time: Noah's sons didn't marry their sisters, they married people who were probably fifty-eighth cousins or something, i.e., not related. And there were three couples to get things going, rather than just one. Already the "chances of incest" has been divided by three. And we're still hundreds and hundreds of years before any command was given by God about incest being forbidden.

So claiming that "all sex is immoral" based on a misguided reading of the text isn't going to do any good.

Lamplighter
Nov 17th 2008, 12:30 AM
In Genesis 9:1, Noah and his sons are told by God to replenish the earth. Noah and his sons all had wives of their own, and none of the wives were blood related to them. There was no incest involved with Noah and his sons and their wives.

Literalist-Luke
Nov 17th 2008, 04:56 AM
Think about it. Adam and Eve were the first two humans. They had sex to make children. How did those children have children? Considering they had to have had children, otherwise we wouldn't exist, they would have to have incest. Now, some people might say "But what if God made another human?". Not only is that not listed in the Bible, but even if God DID make another human, you have to take Noah into account. God flooded the earth, and everyone died except Noah and his family. How did THEY reproduce? More incest. Both the law and the Bible say that incest is wrong. Therefore, if the Bible is true, should we just stop having sex and let the Human race die out? :hmm:Have you bothered to notice that the Bible did not condemn incest until centuries later when the gene pool was far more developed?

Firefighter
Nov 17th 2008, 01:58 PM
Paul speaks to all Christians, not just those who the letters were written to.

Paul says it is good for a man not to marry. Either Paul was right, or Paul was wrong.

Paul says that if you can't control yourself, you should marry. Once again, either Paul's right or wrong.

Paul then explains that marriage is not a sin, but being unmarried is better than to be married.

To say all this is for the "pioneers" of Christianity, then you must say that any of the epistles addressed to a certain group or church is non binding as Scripture.

Now, I for one believe that the children of Adam and Eve did no wrong in committing incest, but make no mistake that incest had to have happened for them to reproduce.



I don't think anyone has said it was. :)



Do not forget the context of what Paul was saying...

1Corinthians 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

The church was under GREAT persecution at the time and thousands were being slaughtered. Paul's advice was given in light of "the present distress". We cannot forget the context of Paul's writings.