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View Full Version : Please Help Stone Age and Neanderthal people?



bhoup
Nov 17th 2008, 09:33 PM
I am currently reading the book The Revised & Expanded Answers Book and it lightly talks about these "people groups" as being in existence at one point in history (and it says that stone age people still exist today) but it doesn't really elaborate on it or provide for it.

Does anyone have any information on this and how it relates to the Christian faith of our Creator and his creation?

Thanks in advance!

mikebr
Nov 17th 2008, 11:22 PM
There were four groups of Native Americans:

Paleo, Archaic, Woodland, and Mississippian. All were fully human and their descendants are alive today. Archeologists tell us that the Paleo period started about 45,000 years ago. Are you asking about earlier groups. Same thing. Neanderthal, or so I have been told, looked the way they did because of their diet. Something in the minerals they digested.

threebigrocks
Nov 18th 2008, 05:46 AM
This is a topic best served in the Apologetics and Evangelism forum. :) Moving it there for continued discussion.

RJ Mac
Nov 21st 2008, 02:29 PM
Neanderthals with us today? Absolutely, try watching Monday Night Football.
These guys had a larger cranium, ie bigger brain than modern man. If evolution
is true then why did the brain cavity get smaller?

Could these be the people of pre-flood, who were smarter and more advanced than us.

Is man not digressing in wisdom but progressing in knowledge today?

Cave men - are these the hermits of modern times. People who were anti-social
possibly killers, thugs etc. Didn't king David live in the caves fleeing from Saul.

If a flood happened all forms of civilization would be wiped out except for those
sketchy people living in the caves, drawing crude pictures on the wall.

The spin doctors can turn anything on a dime, so what happens when you
give them 5 billion years, man can you come up with a story, and they did.

The Bible is the Truth, boy do we need the Truth more than ever before
because the lies of man just keep getting more complex but they're still lies.

RJ

GitRDunn
Nov 21st 2008, 10:45 PM
I am currently reading the book The Revised & Expanded Answers Book and it lightly talks about these "people groups" as being in existence at one point in history (and it says that stone age people still exist today) but it doesn't really elaborate on it or provide for it.

Does anyone have any information on this and how it relates to the Christian faith of our Creator and his creation?

Thanks in advance!
The Stone Age people are still alive today because we are stone age people (descendants of them to be more exact). The stone age is simply a term used to describe a period in human history when stone tools, rather than metal ones, were used.

Lamplighter
Nov 23rd 2008, 01:47 AM
The Stone Age people are still alive today because we are stone age people (descendants of them to be more exact). The stone age is simply a term used to describe a period in human history when stone tools, rather than metal ones, were used.

Correct.

The problem is, this is not true. There is no stone age or iron age, etc....

It's a lie started by Darwinistic spawned theories of man's evolution from a primitive to an advanced species of man.

People in different cultures have been using metal tools since the beginning of man. People in other cultures have been using stone tools since the beginning of man. Depends on what part of the globe you lived on.

EvangMike
Nov 23rd 2008, 06:06 AM
When people were dispersed around the globe, they did not always have their tools with them. This meant that they had to start using whatever was handy. Yes, as someone (lamplighter) already said - metal tools existed from the start (see Ge. 4:22). As they traveled, raw materials may not have been nearby, so they would have had to use what they could find.

There were two occasions when large dispersals took place - at the Tower of Babel, and after the Flood. The one at Babel was quick, the one after the Flood was much more gradual.

fishbowlsoul
Nov 28th 2008, 11:21 PM
Correct.

The problem is, this is not true. There is no stone age or iron age, etc....

It's a lie started by Darwinistic spawned theories of man's evolution from a primitive to an advanced species of man.

People in different cultures have been using metal tools since the beginning of man. People in other cultures have been using stone tools since the beginning of man. Depends on what part of the globe you lived on.

So archaeology is in on the great conspiracy too? The physical evidence does not lie. One can see the progression in metallurgy in the archaeological record. Go look at the physical evidence before making a statement formed only by sitting at computer desk reading websites that offer only opinions but no evidence or methods.


When people were dispersed around the globe, they did not always have their tools with them. This meant that they had to start using whatever was handy. Yes, as someone (lamplighter) already said - metal tools existed from the start (see Ge. 4:22). As they traveled, raw materials may not have been nearby, so they would have had to use what they could find.

There were two occasions when large dispersals took place - at the Tower of Babel, and after the Flood. The one at Babel was quick, the one after the Flood was much more gradual.

Ummm. Did they lose their knowledge of how to mine for metals and their knowledge of metallurgy? The Americas had plenty of metal natural resources but none of the pre Columbian Americans used metallurgy to the extent the Old World habitants did.

RANGER65
Dec 5th 2008, 09:56 PM
All of the evidence that Darwin used to set up the evolution chart has been disproved by modern science many times over. The Peking man was built from the ground up from the finding of one toothe. It was later proven that the toothe came from an extinct pig of that region. Most of the skulls either turned out to be not as old as first thought or was that of a primate. There is a good book written by a Christian Scientist from the University of Miami named Creationism verses Evolution it will certainly exhort you and build your faith to read it. Darwin on his death bed told everyone there that his work was only speculative and he was haunted at the fact that it was made into a religion.
If you study you will find that there was a Pre-Adamite world that satan while he ruled the Earth from Tyre and the angels were mating with humans and other atrocities he threw the world into an Ice -Age and God destroyed it with the Flood of Satan. The very first flood. This will help fill in the time lines that the Earth is 500,000,000 years old but we have been here less than 7000 yrs according to Neal Armstrong's footprint on the lunar surface. That is enough for now.:hmm:

Lamplighter
Dec 5th 2008, 11:32 PM
So archaeology is in on the great conspiracy too? The physical evidence does not lie. One can see the progression in metallurgy in the archaeological record. Go look at the physical evidence before making a statement formed only by sitting at computer desk reading websites that offer only opinions but no evidence or methods.


So, you are calling modern Christian archaeologists liars? They say the opposite of what you say my friend.

catlover
Dec 6th 2008, 01:37 AM
Neanderthals with us today? Absolutely, try watching Monday Night Football.
RJ


what an awful thing to say -- especially for a Christian.

fishbowlsoul
Dec 6th 2008, 04:19 AM
So, you are calling modern Christian archaeologists liars? They say the opposite of what you say my friend.

I cannot determined the truth of what someone says unless I know what they said. What Christian archaeologists are saying the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, etc is all a lie? Do you have a cite for them?

I agree these designations are limited in their description especially of non European/Middle Eastern cultures. Also there are existing cultures who still use primarily Stone Age technology however the people in these existing cultures are physically and genetically homo sapiens not homo neaderthalensis.

GitRDunn
Dec 6th 2008, 09:31 AM
So, you are calling modern Christian archaeologists liars? They say the opposite of what you say my friend.
Which ones and can you show me where and when they said this? Also, are you saying that humans began with metal tools from day one?


what an awful thing to say -- especially for a Christian.
Don't worry, I don't believe he was serious. I think he was making a joke and there was no mal-intent.

Lamplighter
Dec 6th 2008, 03:09 PM
Also, are you saying that humans began with metal tools from day one?


In some cultures, yes. Swords were used all throughout Genesis.

GitRDunn
Dec 7th 2008, 02:58 AM
In some cultures, yes. Swords were used all throughout Genesis.
Yes, but you believe humans began with this knowledge from birth? All humans since Adam and Eve just happened to know how to mine for raw metal, and then how to heat it up and forge it into a shape they wanted?

Lamplighter
Dec 7th 2008, 03:56 AM
Yes, but you believe humans began with this knowledge from birth? All humans since Adam and Eve just happened to know how to mine for raw metal, and then how to heat it up and forge it into a shape they wanted?

Not all world cultures, just some of them used metal from the beginning. Depends on which culture a human lived in.

GitRDunn
Dec 7th 2008, 06:03 AM
Not all world cultures, just some of them used metal from the beginning. Depends on which culture a human lived in.
But where would they have gotten this knowledge without first starting with stone tools and then making advancements and discoveries until they began using metal?

Lamplighter
Dec 7th 2008, 06:27 AM
But where would they have gotten this knowledge without first starting with stone tools and then making advancements and discoveries until they began using metal?

What are you talking about? Again, people were using swords in the book of Genesis over 5 thousand years ago.

Are you a Darwinistic evolutionist? Just curious?

GitRDunn
Dec 7th 2008, 06:44 AM
What are you talking about? Again, people were using swords in the book of Genesis over 5 thousand years ago.

Are you a Darwinistic evolutionist? Just curious?
First, ok so they had swords over 5000 years ago, but I'm just curious whether you think people have had the knowledge of metalurgy since they were created or if not how did they get this knowledge without starting with stone tools and making advancements?

As for your question I'm not 100% for either side of the issue. I believe that the Earth could've been created 6000 years ago by God or that it could've be created 4.5 billion years ago and there was evolution, but God controlled it (I lean more to this side of the issue). In my opinion there is no way to tell for sure from the Bible which it was.

Lamplighter
Dec 7th 2008, 06:56 AM
First, ok so they had swords over 5000 years ago, but I'm just curious whether you think people have had the knowledge of metalurgy since they were created or if not how did they get this knowledge without starting with stone tools and making advancements?


And I still don't follow you? Why does a human have to use stone as a tool before metal as a tool in any given culture? Metallurgy is no more advanced in theory and practice then stone or flint, it's just a different element to be worked with is all. Ever try to make a flint arrowhead? To get the proper break in the flint to make strong and effective arrow heads, it takes many years of practice and precise planning to hone the skill.

GitRDunn
Dec 7th 2008, 07:46 AM
And I still don't follow you? Why does a human have to use stone as a tool before metal as a tool in any given culture? Metallurgy is no more advanced in theory and practice then stone or flint, it's just a different element to be worked with is all. Ever try to make a flint arrowhead? To get the proper break in the flint to make strong and effective arrow heads, it takes many years of practice and precise planning to hone the skill.
Ok, well how would they mine the metal, pound it out, cut it, etc. if they didn't already have stone tools to do these tasks with? I understand that it took time to refine the art of stone usage as well but you have to start at a base and work your way up (stone to metal). You can't sew a piece of clothing without first getting the supplies needed to do so and learning how to use them.

Lamplighter
Dec 7th 2008, 08:31 AM
Ok, well how would they mine the metal, pound it out, cut it, etc. if they didn't already have stone tools to do these tasks with? I understand that it took time to refine the art of stone usage as well but you have to start at a base and work your way up (stone to metal). You can't sew a piece of clothing without first getting the supplies needed to do so and learning how to use them.

How long does this take? 1 month, 1 year, 10 years, 100's of years, 1000's of years, 1000,000's of years 1000,000,000's of years?

Ascender
Dec 10th 2008, 07:28 PM
According to Genesis 4, Tubalcain was an artificer in brass and iron. Why is that so hard to believe and apply.

Consider after all that Adam and Eve walked and talked with the Creator Himself and what do you think they discussed? Was it only "spiritual" things? I for one would have lots of questions about how and why and what does this do and what is that for and can I do this, make this, etc.

Adam and Eve were the original library of all information straight from the mouth of God...Why do you think that the first generations of Man knew so much?

Lamplighter
Dec 10th 2008, 07:55 PM
According to Genesis 4, Tubalcain was an artificer in brass and iron. Why is that so hard to believe and apply.

Consider after all that Adam and Eve walked and talked with the Creator Himself and what do you think they discussed? Was it only "spiritual" things? I for one would have lots of questions about how and why and what does this do and what is that for and can I do this, make this, etc.

Adam and Eve were the original library of all information straight from the mouth of God...Why do you think that the first generations of Man knew so much?



True.

And some of them in different nations were using metal tools and weapons as Genesis shows.

It's sad to see so many Christians duped by the lies of wicked men's darwinistic spawned theories.

Ascender
Dec 10th 2008, 08:08 PM
Naturalism is on the wrong side of Occams Razor.

GitRDunn
Dec 10th 2008, 11:13 PM
According to Genesis 4, Tubalcain was an artificer in brass and iron. Why is that so hard to believe and apply.

Consider after all that Adam and Eve walked and talked with the Creator Himself and what do you think they discussed? Was it only "spiritual" things? I for one would have lots of questions about how and why and what does this do and what is that for and can I do this, make this, etc.

Adam and Eve were the original library of all information straight from the mouth of God...Why do you think that the first generations of Man knew so much?


Ok, but I'm not arguing that there were metal tools, but they aren't mentioned until this point, so what about those generations before him? What did they use if not metal tools? They had to be stone tools.

Genesis 4:17-22 (New International Version)


17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play the harp and flute. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%204:17-22;&version=31;#fen-NIV-102a)] bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain's sister was Naamah.

I personally figure 7 generations before metal tools and said to have been discovered: Adam, Cain, Enoch, Irad, Mehujael, Methushael, and Lamech. If they weren't discovered until the 8th generation, then they must have used something inbetween there and common sense says it has to have been stone tools. As for how long this was, there is no way of knowing because it doesn't say how old these men were when they had their sons and people lived long lives at this time, so it could be a very long span of time.

R GU R
Dec 11th 2008, 12:29 AM
it doesn't say how old these men were when they had their sons and people lived long lives at this time, so it could be a very long span of time.

But not tens of thousands, millions, or billions of years time.

GitRDunn
Dec 11th 2008, 11:27 PM
But not tens of thousands, millions, or billions of years time.
Well I don't know what you've learned but in all my studying I have never seen anything putting humans farther back than in the tens of thousands at most, so I don't see why there would have to be millions or billions of years in there, and also we know that there has been thousands of years since the origin of metal tools so you can't just use the estimated length of time humans have been on Earth, you have to subtract out all the years we have had metal tools and then it isn't really so unreasonable to match up the discovery of metallurgy (which no one has any exact dates on) with ideas about when it was probably discovered.