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DIZZY
Nov 20th 2008, 05:45 AM
I was listening to something this morning and this verse was given out. I thought it a wonderful verse to help us understand that Jesus is God. God is talking to those who are against Judah.

Zechariah 12

The Coming Deliverance of Judah

1 The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it. 4 In that day,” says the LORD, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the LORD of hosts, their God.’ 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place—Jerusalem.
7 “The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Mourning for the Pierced One


10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.

God says in verse 10 He will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication. Then God says then they will look on Me the one whom they have pierced, isn't that an amazing verse. God came down in the flesh to live amoung man a sinless life and then was crucified by the ones that He created. God Himself came down as the Son of God to die for sinners such as I.

I thank you Father for coming to this earth through a virgin as a baby in the flesh (God the Son) to die a brutal death (Jesus the Saviour) a punishment of seperation from the Father that was meant for me, and now because of your sacrifice I can have an eternal life with our Father and Saviour in Heaven, no longer does death have a hold on me, no longer does Satan have a ball and chain around my ankle, I am no longer bound by sin and the penalty of sin. Thank you Lord Amen.

TravisJ
Nov 20th 2008, 11:52 PM
Many things come by revelation... And Oneness of the Godhead is one them... Even in New Testament it is written... Colossians 2:9 " For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" and the chapter before that.. Colossians 1:15 " Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" Jesus Christ... Jehovah-jireh, Jehovah-shalom, Jehovah-nissi, Jehovah-shammah, Jehovah-tsebaoth, Jesus= Jehovah My Savior... I Timothy 3:16, I John 3:16, Revelation 4:2, Matthew 1:23, there everywhere... John 1:3 10-14, John 10:30. If you think about it.. it would be rather wrong if he send someone to do fix man's problem to begin with.. so that is why he manifested himself in flesh...

There been incarnations before Jesus, its just Jesus was a permanent incarnation... Who walked with Adam in the Garden?, Who did Jacob see when he prayed down the angel? He siad he seen God face to face.... Who was the 4th person in the fiery furnace in the Book of Daniel.. There been incarnations before Christ..

Here is a good website to understand the fullness of the Godhead... http://www.leestoneking.com/mighty_god_in_christ.htm

Brother Barnes stated: "If you want to hear anointed Bible preaching with signs, wonders, and miracles following, go and hear Lee Stoneking. I did, and was blessed to see and to know Bible days are here again." Pastor T. W. Barnes, Minden La

Just had to put that along with it..

looking4jesus
Nov 21st 2008, 12:07 AM
Many things come by revelation... And Oneness of the Godhead is one them... Even in New Testament it is written... Colossians 2:9 " For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" and the chapter before that.. Colossians 1:15 " Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" Jesus Christ... Jehovah-jireh, Jehovah-shalom, Jehovah-nissi, Jehovah-shammah, Jehovah-tsebaoth, Jesus= Jehovah My Savior... I Timothy 3:16, I John 3:16, Revelation 4:2, Matthew 1:23, there everywhere... John 1:3 10-14, John 10:30. If you think about it.. it would be rather wrong if he send someone to do fix man's problem to begin with.. so that is why he manifested himself in flesh...

There been incarnations before Jesus, its just Jesus was a permanent incarnation... Who walked with Adam in the Garden?, Who did Jacob see when he prayed down the angel? He siad he seen God face to face.... Who was the 4th person in the fiery furnace in the Book of Daniel.. There been incarnations before Christ..

Here is a good website to understand the fullness of the Godhead... http://www.leestoneking.com/mighty_god_in_christ.htm

Brother Barnes stated: "If you want to hear anointed Bible preaching with signs, wonders, and miracles following, go and hear Lee Stoneking. I did, and was blessed to see and to know Bible days are here again." Pastor T. W. Barnes, Minden La

Just had to put that along with it..

I have no idea what your trying to say. However No way has there been incarnations before Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God and is God.
Tell me who else incarnated.

God Bless
Randy

TravisJ
Nov 21st 2008, 12:27 AM
They were not permanent incarnations i said... If Jacob (Israel) prayed all night and prayed down a angel.. he was wrestling with him right? and Jacob said he saw God.. face to face... same goes with the fourth member in the fiery furnace... when the 3 hebrew boys did not bow to the golden image....

looking4jesus
Nov 21st 2008, 12:59 AM
They were not permanent incarnations i said... If Jacob (Israel) prayed all night and prayed down a angel.. he was wrestling with him right? and Jacob said he saw God.. face to face... same goes with the fourth member in the fiery furnace... when the 3 hebrew boys did not bow to the golden image....


What? sorry your not making any sense to me. BTW Jesus always was. It was Jesus that walked in the garden with Adam and Eve. Jesus is the word made flesh and always was no begining so explain to me who incarnated temporary
God Bless
Randy

TravisJ
Nov 21st 2008, 02:35 AM
What? sorry your not making any sense to me. BTW Jesus always was. It was Jesus that walked in the garden with Adam and Eve. Jesus is the word made flesh and always was no begining so explain to me who incarnated temporary
God Bless
Randy


So tell me what so hard to understand? I don't see where you are confused?

looking4jesus
Nov 21st 2008, 03:31 AM
So tell me what so hard to understand? I don't see where you are confused?

Once again Travis explain to me who incarnated temporary who?
Gd Bless
Randy

DIZZY
Nov 23rd 2008, 11:11 PM
I think what is being said here is the same thing by both of you but differently, Jesus is God and He appeared to Adam in the garden, to the 3 in the fiery furnace and was with Jacob through the night also. Then there was Abraham, Jesus appeared to him in the flesh with two angels. What happened to Jesus when the angels went to Sodom and Gamorrah. Where did Jesus go?

He went back to heaven and as God He rained down brimestone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Butch5
Nov 23rd 2008, 11:50 PM
I think what is being said here is the same thing by both of you but differently, Jesus is God and He appeared to Adam in the garden, to the 3 in the fiery furnace and was with Jacob through the night also. Then there was Abraham, Jesus appeared to him in the flesh with two angels. What happened to Jesus when the angels went to Sodom and Gamorrah. Where did Jesus go?

He went back to heaven and as God He rained down brimestone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Hi Dizzy,

Actually, Jesus did not go back to heaven, He went to Sodom and Gomorrah.


Genesis 19:15-25 ( KJV ) 15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. 18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast showed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. 23The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.



24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.





The LORD on earth rained down fire from the LORD in heaven.

SIG
Nov 24th 2008, 12:20 AM
It was Christ (God the Son) who made these OT appearances. Jesus the Christ, fully God and fully man, did not appear until His incarnation in Bethlehem.

DIZZY
Nov 26th 2008, 11:26 AM
Hi Dizzy,

Actually, Jesus did not go back to heaven, He went to Sodom and Gomorrah.


Genesis 19:15-25 ( KJV ) 15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. 18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast showed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. 23The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.



24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.






The LORD on earth rained down fire from the LORD in heaven.



I think if you read Genesis 19 again you will find the Lord rained down from heaven fire and brimstone.

It doesn't say the Lord on earth it says the Lord rained down fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah from the Lord in heaven. It also says the two angels were sent to destroy Sodom and Gommorrah.

Genesis 19:12,13
12 Then the men said to Lot, “Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take them out of this place! 13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it.”

manichunter
Nov 26th 2008, 08:41 PM
What does God mean when He calls Himself His own Son?

Zack702
Nov 26th 2008, 09:18 PM
Isn't Jesus on the right side of God?
Didn't God place Jesus there?
And didn't Jesus have to fulfill the will of God in order to take his rightful place in heaven?

Jesus said he didn't come as a witness of himself but as a witness of God.
When he was resurrected by God he revealed what many call the trinity.
Meaning that God is Father, Son and holy ghost.
To me Jesus is a part of God but not God himself rather Jesus is the Christ our Lord sent by God. Being resurrected up to heaven and very capable of facing justice and of judging. After being resurrected Jesus is a great part of the host of heaven being what many consider the son of the trinity.

The host of God are many and many men and women were sent as judges however none greater than Jesus. Being the fullfilment of the prophecy and also being the beginning of a great movement among us. Not to mention the name we count on and the remeberance of we celebrate that we might give glory to God.

Butch5
Nov 27th 2008, 04:33 AM
I think if you read Genesis 19 again you will find the Lord rained down from heaven fire and brimstone.

It doesn't say the Lord on earth it says the Lord rained down fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah from the Lord in heaven. It also says the two angels were sent to destroy Sodom and Gommorrah.

Genesis 19:12,13
12 Then the men said to Lot, “Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take them out of this place! 13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it.”

Remeber the Lord stayed behind the Angels to speak with Abraham. There were three of them.

DIZZY
Nov 27th 2008, 05:42 AM
Remeber the Lord stayed behind the Angels to speak with Abraham. There were three of them.


Hi Butch,
Yes there were three angels at the beginning, two of them went on to Sodom and the Lord spoke with Abraham. The Lord after speaking to Abraham did not go into Sodom.

Genesis 19:1,2
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

There is no mention of the Lord ever entering Sodom, what is mentioned is the Lord rained down fire and brimestone on Sodom and Gomorrah from the Lord in heaven.

This is just telling us that it was the Lord who rained down fire and brimestone on Sodom and Gomorrah from heaven.