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Nov 20th 2008, 11:37 PM
I am sorry if this topic has been covered before recently.

When Jesus was born, began his life on earth...and was crucified, were Jews at that time actively looking for a Messiah? Did all Jews believe that a Messiah was coming...did Jesus fit the description of what they expected at all?

TravisJ
Nov 21st 2008, 12:17 AM
They are going to look for the Anti-Christ, because the Messiah has already come... and they will be deceived by him... John the Baptist was Elias i believe thats how you say it.. but John the Baptist was the one who prepared the way for Messiah.. turning people to repentance in his baptism... and he was beheaded by Herod... that was the Elias, and the Messiah is Jesus Christ...

People pray for the Jew's, God's chosen people need to know the Truth...

TravisJ
Nov 21st 2008, 12:21 AM
Yes he did... just scribes and Pharisees, and Sadducees, were just so corrupt... They kept man's traditions but were evil... I think Matthew 26 or somewhere around there it describes the scribes in the Pharisees were hypocrites.. just read the Gospel there is so much knowledge on how Jesus is the Messiah.. Matthew shows Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in his book... I think all together Jesus fulfilled 333 prophecies somewhere in that number...

Emanate
Nov 21st 2008, 03:02 AM
I will speak more of this later, but both of the previous posts have been christian apologists without unerstanding of Jewish thought in the first century.


Yes, in the first century the overall Jewish expectation was that of waiting for Messiah. There were two differing thoughts (ben David, ben joseph). Many at the time of Y'shua expected ben joesph, yet the ben David ideas was more popular (ben david being the ruling messiah). I should note that "ben" means son. There was indeed a suffering messiah theology (ben joseph) very prevalent in Jewish thought in the first century.


As another side note: the biggest roadblock in Jewish thinking today is the Anti-Torah mindset that dominates modern christianity

Biastai
Nov 21st 2008, 07:34 PM
Emanate, your comments interest me. I have great curiosity in this particular topic, so I hope to pick your brain on this later.

Vincent Taylor (Life and Ministry of Jesus) and Joseph Klausner (Jesus of Nazareth) agree that while the suffering messiah was an idea in circulation, it was the minority view. This is shown in the epistles and letters part of our NT in that we don't see references to Isaiah 53 until 1 Peter.

Most Jews were expecting (or hoping to be able to expect) a messiah-king to deliver Israel from Rome-Edom. This is the reason for the Pharisees' question to Jesus on whether or not to pay tribute to Caesar. Klausner suggests Jesus lost much popularity (planned by the Pharisees) when answering this question (the reaction recorded in the gospels is that the people were "amazed"). The Jews' hopes for a messiah who would raise the standard of rebellion against Rome were disappointed that day. While he uses other supporting evidence in his work, this view will be rejected by most Christians.

Vincent Taylor uses the confession of Peter at Caesarea Philippi to clarify his theory.

"Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, "Who do people say I am?"

They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets."
"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Peter answered, "You are the Christ."
Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him. He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Mark 8:27-33 (NIV)

In the sampling of Mark's account of Peter's confession, I italicized Peter's confession and his reacton to Jesus' reply. Jesus' reply is in bold. Peter plainly shows he believes Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus then begins from this point to teach the suffering messiah idea. He will go on to reinforce it two more times later in the gospel. Why? It is not the messiah people (the majority including Peter) have been expecting. This is why although Peter had just confessed Jesus as messiah, he rebukes Jesus for his remarks on the suffering messiah.

So according to this information, to answer the original poster's question, the majority expected a different messiah of which Jesus' description did not match.