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Vhayes
Nov 22nd 2008, 04:32 PM
I John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


You can't use Scripture to disprove Scripture. Jesus did not die for every man, woman, and child that ever lived.

Eph. 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

Christ died for His church and no one else.

Are you aware that the word 'those' I John 2:2 is not in the original Greek text?

http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/djangobarks/Screenshot_4.jpg
Ok, let's leave out "those" and see what the verse says:
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

It appears to me it still says the same thing.

I agree with you that you cannot use scripture to disprove scripture - so what about these verses:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

I Timothy 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Sin isn't the issue any longer - Christ paid the price for all sin, not just some sin. The issue today is what you do with that payment - do you accept the guft or reject the gift and try to do it on your own.

Hope that helps a bit -
V

GitRDunn
Nov 22nd 2008, 07:30 PM
I am also going to reply to Tabcom here:



Hmm, I thought we were supposed to share the Gospel and Jesus' story so that everyone would have the chance to be saved? Also, not all those who aren't saved are pagan in the sense of pagan religion, and many are very nice. Just because they may not believe what I believe, why shouldn't I still be friends with them? Wouldn't this allow me a good pathway to share the Gospel with them? Also, Christ died for the sin of the whole world and God loves everyone the same, he doesn't discriminate against those who aren't saved. Also, at the time that he died he didn't die for his church because it didn't exist (the Christian faith) until after he died.

Romans 5:7-9 (New International Version)

7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
That depends entirely upon your assumption as to what the Gospel is. From reading the body of your post, you are in need of a lot of correction in your doctrine. By the way the Holy Spirit doesn't need a pagan holiday to get the message of the Gospel out.
Ephesians 5:3-20 gives an ample reason why you should not.
In addition, this link provide a detail description as to whom Christians are suppose to fellowship with.

http://www.learnthebible.org/fellowship-with-him.htm

Without a daily cross God does not love you. The God of the Bible hates all workers of lawlessness.Eph. 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

Christ died for His church and no one else.

Romans 5:7-9 (New International Version)

8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 'us' does not = 'everyone that ever lived'. I think you effectively disproved your own argument.[/quote]
I am pretty good with my doctrine, thanks. And no, the Holy Spirit doesn't need a holiday (it isn't just a pagan holiday either, that's been proven by the number of Christians on here who celebrate it) to spread the Gospel (and when I say Gospel, I mean the Word of God, aka the Bible), but in that same token, why shouldn't we share it every day? If we share it every day wouldn't this include every holiday? Or are you saying we should share the message of Jesus every day except holidays?

As for fellow-shipping with others, I never said people are worshiping with them, just sharing God's message. And if someone is seeking Christ, should we not share God's word with them? Would you also close church to anyone who hadn't accepted Christ? If you do this then how do you plan on sharing God's Word?

Romans 5:7-9 (New International Version)

8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Actually, us here is referring to all sinners. If Christ died for us when we were still sinners, than he died for all other sinners as well, he didn't die for a select group of sinners to save them. How were we any different from every other sinner before we accepted Christ? No one is perfect and everyone sins (accept Jesus) even after we accept Christ. The only difference is that we are forgiven of our sins.