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View Full Version : Why was "Oneness" expressed in the OT?



Saved!
Nov 22nd 2008, 07:31 PM
Years ago I asked a minister and didn't get a satisfying answer and hope you all could help, "If our L**d knew that He would eventually send us Jesus, and that Jesus would be His son, why did He (The L**d) express SOOOO strongly that He was ONE? Wouldn't He have been concerned that that alone would make His children question Jesus' divinity?"

I wonder why our L**d did not skirt the issue of "oneness" and allow an implication that His son would be along in the future.

I have been a Christian ALL of my life and have relied on Jesus all these years and love Him dearly. I absolutely hate it when any question about Him rises to the the top of my mind!!!! Yet, as a growing Christian I guess it is natural to have to come to terms with my own beliefs and not go blindly along with what I have been told. I believe WITH ALL MY HEART that Jesus is the L**d's son and that I am saved only through Jesus' sacrifice for me.

I just wish that the Bible did not leave ANY room for doubt on this issue, as IT IS a salvation issue!!

I look at the NT books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John...at their references to OT prophecies about Jesus and they are not concrete to me. Oh, that I wish they were!!!!

Folks, I need help. I find myself suddenly in the shoes of a 1st century Jew that needs Paul to explain Jesus. I have no clue how I got here!!!!

Anyone want to take the role of Paul and show me the light...that Jews looked for a Messiah...that our L**d is His father...that all along the L**D planned for our salvation through Him...that the prophets DEFINITELY spoke of Jesus...that the L**D's Oneness included Jesus?

The L**D has been kind and generous to me ...I am frightened that I have disappointed him with any doubts on my part..and Jesus, the One that sacrificed His very life for me...He must be disappointed!!!

daughter
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:02 PM
Hey there Saved.

I had some concern about this a while ago, when I first started reading through the Tannukh as a Christian, but the problems resolved when I started studying Hebrew (not saying I'm much good at it yet, but I'm getting there.)

When God says, "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is One", the word for "one" is "echad."

The more usual word for "one" is "yachid", which is the word you would use for "one son," "one hat", "one boat," etc.

The word "echad" is used to describe plurality in unity, as in "one" bunch of grapes, "one" pair of shoes, "one" married couple, "one" God.

A man and wife become "echad" flesh. The grapes carried back by the spies is "echad" because they are in a bunch. And God is quite definitely "echad", which means that even the very earliest hearers of this word understood that the "one" God they served was not many Gods, not "yachid" God, but plurality in unity.

The trinity expounds and expands on this, and in no way contradicts the unity of Jahve, as described in the Tannukh.

I hope this helps?

Vhayes
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:08 PM
Also (and I will need Daughter's help with this) I believe it reads:
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord (Elohim - plural) your God (Jehovah - singular), the Lord (Elohim - plural) is One"

Vhayes
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:14 PM
I just re-read your post and thought I should add, God the Father DID speak of Christ at the very beginning:
Genesis 3
15-And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel."

Hope that helps also.
V

Saved!
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:14 PM
Daughter,

Yes, ma'am...that does help tremendously.

I've tried to explain it to myself in this way (and, if I remember correctly, you are the mother of an only child-a son-as am I) .. in a way that you might agree with:

My son and I are one. Any kindness done to him, or any harm done to him, is the same as if it were done to me. I will reward any kindness shown to him and will have to work to forgive any harm done to him. I know that he feels the same about me. While we have seperate bodies and existences, we most definitely display "unity." (My husband feels the exact same way..and my son feels the same way about him-God has blessed me with a strong Christian family and I am eternally grateful.)

Your explanation fits along with what I have been trying to tell myself.

Bless you for your assistance!

Saved!
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:22 PM
Vhayes,

Yes. That does help. I remember, in the scene from "The Passion" that that particular verse really hits home.

To me, Jesus always made perfect sense. Then suddenly, from out of nowhere..doubt crept in! Oh, how I hated it!

But, in a sense, finding Jesus again...through actively seeking Him out by reading, thinking, speaking with all of you...will be wonderful...because I will have accepted Him of my own will and not because that was how I was raised. In the end, my loyalty to Him will take on a greater significance.

Vhayes
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:27 PM
Vhayes,

Yes. That does help. I remember, in the scene from "The Passion" that that particular verse really hits home.

To me, Jesus always made perfect sense. Then suddenly, from out of nowhere..doubt crept in! Oh, how I hated it!

But, in a sense, finding Jesus again...through actively seeking Him out by reading, thinking, speaking with all of you...will be wonderful...because I will have accepted Him of my own will and not because that was how I was raised. In the end, my loyalty to Him will take on a greater significance.
Absolutely! Building your relationship with Him will allow you to see facets and faces of Him you have never seen before. He will become Great God, Mighty Counsellor, Prince of Peace, The Alpha and The Omega and so very much more.

Be blessed in your journey of discovery!
V

daughter
Nov 22nd 2008, 08:31 PM
Hey V! Yes, you got it just right. :rolleyes:

SIG
Nov 22nd 2008, 09:31 PM
Also (and I will need Daughter's help with this) I believe it reads:
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord (Elohim - plural) your God (Jehovah - singular), the Lord (Elohim - plural) is One"

Actually, the names used are (in order): YHVH--El--YHVH

Since Jews never try to pronounce the Tetragrammaton (YHVH), the name "Adonai" is substituted.

The name "El" appears as "Eloheinu," which translates as "our God."

A transliteration would be :"Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad"

Daughter is right in what she says about the word "echad"--this is key.

I always find it amusing that this (foundational) prayer mentions God three times--the Trinity hidden in the concept of Oneness.

Note also that many Hebrew prayers begin with

"Baruch attau Adonai Eloheinu Melech Ha'olam..." -- "Blessed are you o Lord our God, King of the Universe..." Lord, God, King of the Universe -- three names...

Vhayes
Nov 23rd 2008, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the correction and the exposition, Sig. I've learned something!
V

BHS
Nov 23rd 2008, 10:25 PM
Consider, too, that when Jesus quoted the Shema in Mark, He was not excluding Himself. He understood and expected the Jewish man He spoke to to understand this.

Mark 12:29-31 9 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' 31 "The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

Jesus is throughout the Tanach and is thought to be the one who presented Himself in visible form anytime God presented Himself in the appearance of a man.

Blessings,
BHS

Saved!
Nov 23rd 2008, 10:37 PM
Jesus is throughout the Tanach and is thought to be the one who presented Himself in visible form anytime God presented Himself in the appearance of a man.

Blessings,
BHS

I was taught that also...and always felt a particular comfort in that. I loved the thought of Jesus being involved with us in all the time prior to His earthly birth. I still do.

To all of you offering your help, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. And, as I said before, re-discovering Jesus from a very personal standpoint makes my acceptance of Him as my personal savior even more satisfying.

Your efforts on my behalf are certain to be rewarded!