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brakelite
Nov 29th 2008, 01:44 AM
I considered placing this thread in ETC but thought that not everyone is interested in ETC so because primarily this is a Bible study, chose to place it in here. Mindful of the fact that the thread may be transferred later as the discussion develops.
Before we look at the antichrist, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Mathew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words.

38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.


It has been said, and I think wisely, that the Bible must be understood grammatically before it can be understood theologically. Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong's concordance, and like other words having the prefix 'anti', means at it's most basic form "in the room of", "instead of", or "in the place of".
In other words, 'antichrist' stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the 'antichrist' will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be decieved by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a 'son of perdition' is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle imposter. A counterfeit. An imposter of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.

Satan has many counterfeits. Now counterfeits are almost identical to the true. You do not get counterfeit 99$ notes. You get counterfeit 100$ notes. And unless you get trained and disciplined to know intimately the true 100$ note, you will not recognise the false. It has been estimated that every person in America who has regularly handled 100$ notes, has had pass through their hands a counterfeit at least 4 times a year! And not known it!!!! Unless you are intimately acquainted with the true Jesus, how will you recognise the counterfeit?

In Revelation 14 God has the final message of warning that His peaople must deliver before He comes. It is shown as being preached by 3 angels, This is figurative, for it is the responsibilityof the church to preach the gospel. It however can be understaad that angels are directing and overseeing the preaching. Satan however has a counterfeit message. We see this in
Revelation 16:13,14. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

This is a threefold message of demons opposing and decieving the world at the time of the end.
Another counterfeit is the trinity. We see the two trinities opposing one another throughout the book of Revelation. On the one side the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. On the other, the dragon or Satan, the sea-beast or antichrist in Rev 13, and the land-beast or false prophet of the same chapter. Let us look at some of the paralells, with particular interest on the sea-beast.

Dragon/Satan.
His place in heaven (Rev 12:3,7,8.)
He has a throne. (Rev 13:2, 2:13)
Gives throne, power, and authority to sea-beast. (13:2,4.)
He is worshipped. (13:4a)
Destroyed forever. (20:9,10)

Now compare:
God the Father
Dwelling in heaven (Rev 4,5)
He has a throne. (4:5; 7:9-15; 19:4)
Gives throne, power and authority to Jesus. (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27; 3:21; chapters 4,5.)
Is worshipped. (Rev 4:10; 15:4)
Lives and reign forever. (4:9; 5:13; 11:15)


The Land-beast or false prophet.
Called the false prophet because he decieves people with regards to religious matters. (16:13; 19:20; 20:10)
Lamb-like. (13:11)
Exercises all authority of sea-beast. (13:12a)
Directs worship to sea-beast. (13:12b,15)
Performs signs. (13:13; 19:20)
Brings fire down from heaven (13:13)
Gives breath/life to beasts image (13:15)
Applies mark of beast. (13:16)

Now compare:
The Holy Spirit
Called the Spirit of truth guiding people. (Jn 16:13 Rev 22:17)
Christ-like. (Jn 1426; 16:14)
Exercises authority of Christ (Jn 16:13,14)
Directs worship to Christ (Acts 5:29-32)
Fire from heaven at Pentecost (Acts 2)
Instills life to us, the image of Christ. (Romans8:11,29)
Applies seal of God. (2 Cor 1:22 Eph 1:13 4:30 Rev 7:3,4.)

The sea-beast or antichrist.
Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)
Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)
Ten diadems. (13:1)
Ten horns (13:1)
Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)
42 months of activity in first phase. (13:5)
Was slain (13:3)
Resurrected (13:3)
Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)

Now compare:
Jesus Christ
Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)
Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)
Many diadems (Rev 19:12)
Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)
Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)
42 months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)
Was slain (Rev 5:6)
Was resurrected (Rev1:18)
Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)

So how does the above sea-beast or antichrist counterfeit the threefold ministry of the true Christ, as Priest, Prophet and King? Is there an entity in the world today who claims to do just this? Is there one like Judas who is betraying the Master with a kiss, all the while claiming to be a friend? Is there in the world today a religious system or religious ruler who claims to be the earthly representative of Christ as His priest, claiming to be a mediator between God and man? Claiming to forgive sin even?
Does this entity also claim the prerogatives of a prophet? Does it claim to speak for God in spiritual matters? Does it claim to stand as God spokesman
on earth and claim that only through it's authority can salvation be found?
And finally, does this entity also claim to be a king? Does it claim authority as a secular power? Does it exercise authority and power within the auspices of a church/state relationship?

The answer my friends to all the above questions is a firm yes.There is an entity in the world today who claims all the above Godly prerogatives which belong only to Jesus Christ. Priest, prophet and king.This entity has set itself up as counterfeit and thus can be affirmatively identified as the antichrist, the impostor and impersonator of the true. And this entity can be found in the Roman Catholic church system

walked
Nov 29th 2008, 02:58 AM
Hi brakelite :pp


There is an entity in the world today who claims all the above Godly prerogatives which belong only to Jesus Christ. Priest, prophet and king.This entity has set itself up as counterfeit and thus can be affirmatively identified as the antichrist, the impostor and impersonator of the true. And this entity can be found in the Roman Catholic church system


Nice presentation and thoughts, at one time I was thinking in that same line of the Catholic church system fitting the criteria of (anti/instead/fake) christ... I do admit the Catholic church system does fit a lot of the discriptions of antichrist given in new testament writings but then again so do many individual people at times in their life, as well as do many of the wealthier governments of the earth and the united nations system fits well too.
But at this time/day anyway the Catholic church system, nor united nations, nor any government or person on earth fit all of the desciptions of the events that are to happen on earth at antichrist appearance as given in revelation, not saying that you are not correct, just that the events on earth are not in line with the appearance of antichrist at this time/day. So, we should trust His word and not venture to speculate, we should not be trying to attach that title until the signs of the time/day comes as recorded in Gods word, because we all lack understanding and only see in part.
I myself at times in my life have fit some of the desciptions of antichrist given in new testament writings.... but I assure you I am not he.

Below are the events that happen on earth that signify antichrist appearance given by the author of the book of Revelation and supported by the OT book of Ezekiel so that watchers on earth will be able to identify antichrist when he appears so they can have their lamps full of oil.

Rev 6:12
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13, And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14, And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15, And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16, And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17, For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 9:14
Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15, And the four angels were loosed,which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16, And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17, And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18, By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19, For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20, And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21, Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 16:12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13, And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake
(same earthquake as described in rev 6:12 6th vial), such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Hmmmm, 6th 6th 6th... ring a bell ?

Just my opinion...
God bless you more and more.

brakelite
Dec 8th 2008, 12:04 AM
Hi brakelite :pp




.....I do admit the Catholic church system does fit a lot of the discriptions of antichrist given in new testament writings......
Hi walked....May I make the claim that the RCC fits all the descriptions of antichrist in the NT. And not only so, but also the descriptions in the OT of the little horn which most scholars attribute to the same entity. That being so, why look for another? I can actually answer that. Because the RCC, through the Jesuits, has done a brilliant PR job of redirecting the focus of genuine Christians.
It was 2 Jesuits who popularized preterism and futurism. Until the counter-reformation most of the Christian world used historicism as the means of interpreting prophecy. Now the church has been led up the garden path and looking at the distant horizons both past and future and are blind to the train about to run them over.