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ross3421
Dec 1st 2008, 11:15 PM
Notice that I did not say "flesh and blood". Sin is retained in the veins of every creature and controls the flesh. This is why when one dies they are embalmed with fluid and as much blood is drained so that the flesh can be preserved. So is it possible that our new resurrected bodies are flesh minus the blood. Note that that "flesh" could mean a variety of material covering.

Was Christ resurrected and seen of many? Did not Thomas touch his body...

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

So true flesh AND blood cannot not enter but flesh apart from the blood may enter. We also see that upon resurrection God will bring flesh and skin upon our bones.

Eze 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Eze 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

Due to a couple of ongoing threads using the following verse to imply that either flesh or blood cannot enter the kingdom is inaccurate. Is is the combination of the two, flesh and blood.

1co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

markedward
Dec 2nd 2008, 01:05 AM
Why does the Torah claim that blood is the part of earthly creatures that should be respected? "Because life is in the blood."

Or further, "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."

This seems to be an argument based on semantics; an argument based on carefully reading loops around the words in order to come to a specific conclusion. Just because a phrasing of "flesh and blood" is used often about what cannot inherit the kingdom, doesn't mean the speaker was claiming that "this part can, but this part can't."

Meaning, the Bible - at least as far as you've quoted it - does not support your conclusion that Jesus or Paul or Ezekiel was saying that the combination of flesh and blood is the problem.

TrustingFollower
Dec 2nd 2008, 01:42 AM
You are way off base with this theory. The body you are in right now can not inherit the kingdom of God. This thing with the embalming fluid could never work out for the simple reason none of the apostles were embalmed. Look at 1 Corinthians chapter 15 for the answer.

1 Corinthians 15

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 ¶So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

markedward
Dec 2nd 2008, 01:43 AM
I think interpreting "shedding" as "getting rid of" isn't the right way to go... I guess I'll wait and see what other people have to say...

ross3421
Dec 2nd 2008, 02:02 AM
You are way off base with this theory. The body you are in right now can not inherit the kingdom of God. This thing with the embalming fluid could never work out for the simple reason none of the apostles were embalmed. Look at 1 Corinthians chapter 15 for the answer.

1 Corinthians 15

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 ¶So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Let me clarify, I am not saying that our body right now will inherit the kingdom, i understand that we will be given a new body. What I am saying is that the body we have after the resurrection will be of flesh of sorts and that flesh is not the reason we cannot enter in the kingdom rather the blood.

TrustingFollower
Dec 2nd 2008, 02:31 AM
Let me clarify, I am not saying that our body right now will inherit the kingdom, i understand that we will be given a new body. What I am saying is that the body we have after the resurrection will be of flesh of sorts and that flesh is not the reason we cannot enter in the kingdom rather the blood.
Well let me put it this way then. The flesh we know now will not enter the kingdom of God. Jesus is repairing a new one for us, that is the mansion he refers to in the gospel. It may flesh be similar to what we have now only incorruptible or it may be completely different. We don't know for sure, but will find out when we get that body. Your theory of the blood does not make any sense. Jesus shed his blood to seal the covenant with God on our behalf. A covenant is only binding when blood seals it.

My heart's Desire
Dec 2nd 2008, 04:33 AM
I've heard this before but I'm not so sure about it myself. I've heard some say even that our new bodies will not have blood in it. It is based on the body of Christ before He rose into heaven. He said He had flesh and bones, He ate and His body (which was still of at least flesh I suppose) was seen rising into the clouds. There were some differences of the flesh that had been crucified and the flesh that had risen, though as He could walk through walls or appear at will.

TrustingFollower
Dec 2nd 2008, 05:12 AM
I say this with all due respect, but I will stick with what the bible tells us about what kind of body we get in the resurrection. It matters not to me if it has blood in it or not. I am going on faith in God that the body will be perfect. Further more we have God's spirit as a pledge of this perfect body.

2 Corinthians 5

1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

John146
Dec 2nd 2008, 07:08 PM
The main point of 1 Cor 15:50-54 is that mortal and corruptible flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. One must have an immortal and incorruptible body in order to inherit the kingdom of God at the last trumpet when Christ returns.

Whether our new bodies have flesh or not is really not all that important. I do think they will, but it won't be like the flesh we have now, which is mortal and corruptible.

quiet dove
Dec 2nd 2008, 10:23 PM
Your missing the point of the thread. The point is that we will have a fleshly body in the kingdom of God though the type is in question and that after the resurrection flesh will enter the kingdom but perhaps not blood.

Concerning the blood and embalming, this is an illustration that our blood decays the body due to containing sin and that is why when we die we are embalmed to preserve the flesh for a while though the blood cannot be totally removed. Jesus's body would not have decayed after death due to no sin. Only sinful things decay.

Sin is in our blood that is how it has traveled from Adam. Jesus had to shed his blood which contains no sin to cover our sins. Jesus could not just have died but it was important that his blood was shed. Note that Jesus contained no sin and could not die and that he had to give his life voluntarily. Again this why the virgin birth is so important as his blood was no tainted by human blood but remained pure with spot or blemish.

The book is one of the best reads in understand the significance of the blood. I hope this clears up any confusion.

Mark

But we are not united with God by blood. God is a Spirit and not flesh or blood. Adam was not separated from God blood wise, he, and us, are separated spiritually. It is not Jesus physical blood that is of importance when it comes to sin but His spiritual sinlessness and His righteousness, He was not separated from God the Father spiritually like Adam and Adam's descendents. Jesus was/is perfect, sinless, holy, and righteous, there fore was able to pay for our sins without dieing Himself, the second death did not have any power over Him, He was guilty of no sin.

The high priest in the OT went into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled blood for the people, that is what Jesus did for us and He is our High Priest, He sprinkled His sinless blood to cover our sins, (I know you know that part) but none of that has anything to do with what kind of body our immortal/incorruptible body is made of, it has to do with our sinful spirit being covered by His righteousness and no longer separated from God spiritually. We will live on after death one way or another, either spiritually with God or spiritually separated, depending of course on whether one is in or out of Jesus Christ. But none of it has to do with our physical body, it's gone: blood, flesh, bone, all of it.

That is why the Bible says we will be "changed", I mean, who cares what it is made out of I think we all fully know and believe that God will do more for us than we can comprehend in our finite minds.

Dani H
Dec 3rd 2008, 02:23 AM
Luke 24:39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=39&version=50&context=verse)
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

RANGER65
Dec 7th 2008, 04:27 AM
What about the men who were translated by chariot to Heaven? Were they drained of blood prior to arrival? :hmm:
What is is the veins of the cheribum? :hmm:

I really don't have a great answer. I have never put thought into this because i guess with the Enoch and Elijah and the vision of Paul. (If it was real and not a vision), I assumed that flesh with the blood still in it was acceptable in Heaven. There are many other creatures in Heaven now. Do they have blood? :hmm:

Studyin'2Show
Dec 8th 2008, 12:43 PM
I just wanted to make a comment on the blood of a baby coming from the mother and father. That is not the case. Actually, only the father's blood is in the baby. This is why a baby would be the father's blood type and not the mother's. As to the flesh entering heaven issue, is the answer to this question going to be required at the gates? If not, just watch and wait and go in with whatever the Father intends you to go in with. :rolleyes:

God Bless!

David Taylor
Dec 8th 2008, 04:04 PM
Just getting this thread back ontrack with the OP...."Can flesh enter into the kingdom of God?"

Let's keep the topic focused there, and avoid getting into any of that earlier odd blood-stuff, taught from someone's third-party book.

Keep it biblically sound, and not off the wall, and this thread can continue...go back to the weird stuff, and it will be closed.

thepenitent
Dec 8th 2008, 06:38 PM
The main point of 1 Cor 15:50-54 is that mortal and corruptible flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. One must have an immortal and incorruptible body in order to inherit the kingdom of God at the last trumpet when Christ returns.

Whether our new bodies have flesh or not is really not all that important. I do think they will, but it won't be like the flesh we have now, which is mortal and corruptible.

I would agree with this. See also John 6:63, "It is the Spirit who give life, the flesh is of no avail"

ross3421
Dec 8th 2008, 10:07 PM
I just wanted to make a comment on the blood of a baby coming from the mother and father. That is not the case. Actually, only the father's blood is in the baby. This is why a baby would be the father's blood type and not the mother's.

SS,

Thanks for your reply.......

The father only would support the blood type in the event of a "virgin" birth. This is the importance of it being a virgin birth which I have been trying to convey. Actually the fetus creates their own physical blood with the make up from both parents in a normal conception. While in the womb the mother's blood does not interact with the fetus so in the case of Jesus it was not tainted.

"Deoxygenated fetal blood passes through umbilical arteries to the placenta. At the junction of umbilical cord and placenta, the umbilical arteries branch radially to form chorionic arteries. Chorionic arteries also branch before they enter into the villi. In the villi, they form an extensive arteriocapillary venous system, bringing the fetal blood extremely close to the maternal blood; but no intermingling of fetal and maternal blood occurs ("placental barrier"[5]).

All life is in the blood

Le 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof:

Death and sin has passed to all men

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


So if life is in the blood then how is death and sin transfered from Adam?



Also this should have us to understand why not only did Jesus have to die but to shed his blood. In his blood contains no sin thus no death, it was shed so we may live.

1pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Mt 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



As to the flesh entering heaven issue, is the answer to this question going to be required at the gates? If not, just watch and wait and go in with whatever the Father intends you to go in with. :rolleyes:

God Bless!

The intent of this thread was to show that flesh will enter the kingdom of God. Note this flesh is not the same which now is corruptable but made incorruptable upon our resurrection (note flesh will not enter heaven before a resurrection). In the course of this dicussion the "and blood" was discussed whereby I was trying to point out that it is the blood which is the source of the corruption of the flesh and that it is the source of which will make us incorruptable.

I hope this is not weird to you.........:D

TrustingFollower
Dec 9th 2008, 03:58 AM
1 Corinthians 15

50 ¶Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

This saying that the sin is in the blood and that flesh will enter the kingdom of God is just out right lie. Read the word of God. It says plain as day that flesh and blood will NOT enter the kingdom of God. Our flesh is not the same kind of body the believer gets at the resurrection, we get our spiritual body. This body is different than the one we have now.

1 Corinthians 15

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 ¶So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

ross3421
Dec 9th 2008, 04:38 AM
1 Corinthians 15

This saying that the sin is in the blood and that flesh will enter the kingdom of God is just out right lie. Read the word of God. It says plain as day that flesh and blood will NOT enter the kingdom of God. Our flesh is not the same kind of body the believer gets at the resurrection, we get our spiritual body. This body is different than the one we have now.

1 Corinthians 15

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 ¶So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

I said that the flesh which will enter is not the flesh we have today but is raised incorruptable. Yes it is raised a spiritual body but does this mean it does not have flesh?

Jesus was raised in a spiritual body but had flesh....

Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


Mark