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Sandman1
Dec 3rd 2008, 06:36 AM
How does God feel about war? Does the bible speak of those who fight in wars? Does God forgive those of us who have taken lives in war?

Thirst
Dec 3rd 2008, 08:58 AM
How does God feel about war? Does the bible speak of those who fight in wars? Does God forgive those of us who have taken lives in war?

I can't pretend to know the mind of God... But, it is my belief that wars always occur due to sin. Romans 3:10-18

Yes, the Bible does speak about those who fight in wars.

Sins are forgiven and covered by Christ when we confess our wrongdoing, repent, and give our life back to God.

dan
Dec 3rd 2008, 11:06 AM
...Place for war in God's World.

EX 15:3 Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name.

NUM 32:20 And Moses said to them: If you do what you promise, go on well appointed for war before the Lord:
NUM 32:21 And let every fighting man pass over the Jordan, until the Lord overthrow his enemies :
NUM 32:22 And all the land be brought under him, then shall you be blameless before the Lord and before Israel, and you shall obtain the countries that you desire, before the Lord.
NUM 32:23 But if you do not what you say, no man can doubt but you sin against God: and know ye, that your sin shall overtake you.

2SAM 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

ECCLES 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
ECCLES 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up [that which is] planted;
ECCLES 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
ECCLES 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
ECCLES 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
ECCLES 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
ECCLES 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
ECCLES 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Sandman1
Dec 3rd 2008, 12:11 PM
Yes, the Bible does speak about those who fight in wars.

Sins are forgiven and covered by Christ when we confess our wrongdoing, repent, and give our life back to God.
So you're saying that the Bible says that its wrong to fight in wars?
I've read of wars in the Bible. Even David slew a man but did he have to ask for forgiveness? Did God frown upon David during that moment? I'm really trying to sort this out. Since I've been home and have had time to think about it all, it's really tormenting me. I've prayed but fear God doesn't hear my plea. I'm really starting to come unraveled.

Slug1
Dec 3rd 2008, 12:27 PM
War is a tool that God uses to see His purpose done here on earth. Killing has purpose, it's used to protect the innocent and to enable God to move his purpose forward which is many times an offensive operation. He uses man to do much of this. If killing was wrong why would God use us to kill? Why then when He returns will He once again do all the killing Himself, if to kill... is wrong?

Murder is a twist that satan has applied to the purpose of killing. satan uses it to destroy while God uses it to see His will be done.

Are you a soldier? I ask cause of your comment about coming home. I've been to war 4 times in my career as a soldier and since I was an Infantryman for 21 years I've experienced my share of killing. Many prayers have gone up to God and like David and all men and women God used in times of war I am comforted in the knowledge that I was being obedient to God's will for me. Some are to be Ministers of God and will be used in war and will be used to protect as law enforcement is used today. Until Jesus returns and can do this wrath by His own hand He uses us still today.

tango
Dec 3rd 2008, 12:43 PM
How does God feel about war? Does the bible speak of those who fight in wars? Does God forgive those of us who have taken lives in war?

I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of warfare - having never seen active service I could only comment in a theoretical capacity and from a position of limited understanding.

What I can say is that all sins can be forgiven, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-29). So if it was doing God's will then you're fine, and if it wasn't then you can be forgiven.

Sandman1
Dec 3rd 2008, 12:47 PM
Slug, 10 years in the mil. The last 5 in the sandbox.

So as long as it was God's will and it was a just war in God's eyes?

Slug, I should feel semi-comfortable revealing this considering I have a certain amount of anonymity here, but it's very difficult for me to even type it out.

What if it got to the point to where I enjoyed it? Not so much the act of killing but rather the act of killing my enemies. Not sure if that makes sense.

MOTC7
Dec 3rd 2008, 12:57 PM
Slug, 10 years in the mil. The last 5 in the sandbox.

So as long as it was God's will and it was a just war in God's eyes?

Slug, I should feel semi-comfortable revealing this considering I have a certain amount of anonymity here, but it's very difficult for me to even type it out.

What if it got to the point to where I enjoyed it? Not so much the act of killing but rather the act of killing my enemies. Not sure if that makes sense.

The bible speaks of how we should rejoice that the Lord has delivered us from our enemies and that He ultimately has won the war. In the OT they celebrated winning battles many many times, so I don't think it's a bad thing.

mcgyver
Dec 3rd 2008, 01:34 PM
Slug, 10 years in the mil. The last 5 in the sandbox.

So as long as it was God's will and it was a just war in God's eyes?

Slug, I should feel semi-comfortable revealing this considering I have a certain amount of anonymity here, but it's very difficult for me to even type it out.

What if it got to the point to where I enjoyed it? Not so much the act of killing but rather the act of killing my enemies. Not sure if that makes sense.

Sandman, this makes perfect sense to me...Been there, done that.

The only thing that I can tell you is that there is peace, healing, and wholeness in Jesus.

It was when I came to know Him as my Lord and as my Savior that I found "wholeness"...and for me personally the the most wonderful passages of scripture; the ones that lifted that heavy burden were:

Romans 8:1.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

and 2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

He's the only one that was able to wash the blood off of my hands, He's the only one who was able to take care of those dreams, He's the only one that was able to put it all back together...if you know what I mean...

I see that you've checked the box that says "I am seeking Christ".

He's nearer to you than you know...so what hinders you becoming a Christian? What is it that you need apart from Him?

Sandman1
Dec 3rd 2008, 01:45 PM
Sandman, this makes perfect sense to me...Been there, done that.

The only thing that I can tell you is that there is peace, healing, and wholeness in Jesus.

It was when I came to know Him as my Lord and as my Savior that I found "wholeness"...and for me personally the the most wonderful passages of scripture; the ones that lifted that heavy burden were:

Romans 8:1.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

and 2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

He's the only one that was able to wash the blood off of my hands, He's the only one who was able to take care of those dreams, He's the only one that was able to put it all back together...if you know what I mean...

I see that you've checked the box that says "I am seeking Christ".

He's nearer to you than you know...so what hinders you becoming a Christian? What is it that you need apart from Him?
Mcgyver, I'm a man that has shed few tears in his life, but right now my eyes are really welling up. I've started seeing the faces. I never used to see the faces, in my dreams, and now they have faces. It haunts me. I can't sleep without being startled, without waking up in a sweat, without my sidearm locked and loaded right next to me. It's affected every part of my life and not in a good way.
What's keeping me from God? Guilt and shame over all that I have done; disbelief that God could forgive someone like me. My heart is broken because I want to love God. I want a relationship with him but not sure if he would even have me. Jesus Christ help me!

mcgyver
Dec 3rd 2008, 02:00 PM
Mcgyver, I'm a man that has shed few tears in his life, but right now my eyes are really welling up. I've started seeing the faces. I never used to see the faces, in my dreams, and now they have faces. It haunts me. I can't sleep without being startled, without waking up in a sweat, without my sidearm locked and loaded right next to me. It's affected every part of my life and not in a good way.
What's keeping me from God? Guilt and shame over all that I have done; disbelief that God could forgive someone like me. My heart is broken because I want to love God. I want a relationship with him but not sure if he would even have me. Jesus Christ help me!

My brother,

What you have written could have been my words...For me...I can see faces and not remember their names...or I remember their names and somehow their faces just won't come to me. I remember waking up in a cold sweat...my wife's face in the morning because I'd been talking in my sleep and she'd heard things that terrified her...

But that is all in the past, and I am very thankful for it!

The word of God tells us a couple of things:

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

You have God's promise that He will meet you right there where you are. He knows what you've done, and He loves you anyway...and He's willing to forgive you every single thing you've ever done.

He knows that we can't "get right" first...so He died for you and me...while we were still in the depths of our sin...so that if we would come to Him with that tiniest of sparks, we would be forgiven, restored, made whole.

I'd like you to take a moment and read this:

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=148125

Then come on back and tell me what you think, OK?

HisLeast
Dec 3rd 2008, 02:15 PM
Mcgyver, I'm a man that has shed few tears in his life, but right now my eyes are really welling up. I've started seeing the faces. I never used to see the faces, in my dreams, and now they have faces. It haunts me. I can't sleep without being startled, without waking up in a sweat, without my sidearm locked and loaded right next to me. It's affected every part of my life and not in a good way.
What's keeping me from God? Guilt and shame over all that I have done; disbelief that God could forgive someone like me. My heart is broken because I want to love God. I want a relationship with him but not sure if he would even have me. Jesus Christ help me!

Sandman1,

There are many men in this forum who understand your burden. Being a lifelong civvy, I'm not one of them. I have no comprehension of how it must feel for you. But I DO understand the doubt. Can God really forgive this? Surely no amount of grace can cover this. But that's where God shows how great He is. There is no sin OR pain that can overpower grace.

There's an old hymn I grew up singing in church, with a line that has stuck in my memory for times such as these. Its called "To God be the Glory"

O perfect redemption, the purchase of blood,
To every believer, the promise of God;
The vilest offender who truly believes,
That moment from Jesus a pardon receives.

What power or glory would God have if He couldn't or wouldn't save guys like me?

tango
Dec 3rd 2008, 02:43 PM
Mcgyver, I'm a man that has shed few tears in his life, but right now my eyes are really welling up. I've started seeing the faces. I never used to see the faces, in my dreams, and now they have faces. It haunts me. I can't sleep without being startled, without waking up in a sweat, without my sidearm locked and loaded right next to me. It's affected every part of my life and not in a good way.
What's keeping me from God? Guilt and shame over all that I have done; disbelief that God could forgive someone like me. My heart is broken because I want to love God. I want a relationship with him but not sure if he would even have me. Jesus Christ help me!

Sandman, I'm much like HisLeast in that I've never shot at anything other than beer cans and empty bottles.

Reading your post about guilt and forgiveness reminded me of Jesus' crucifixion. Jesus himself said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do".

In other words, even as the Roman soldiers were preparing Jesus to be crucified (a slow, horrible, humiliating death), he was praying for their forgiveness. If Jesus can forgive the guards who were about to execute him, he can forgive anybody.

In Ephesians 6:12-17 Paul describes a battle, not with flesh and blood, but in the spiritual realm. The weapon we use is the sword of truth, the word of God. The word of God tells us that if we confess our sins God will forgive us, and cleanse us from unrighteousness (1Jn 1:8-9). It also tells us that if we resist the devil he will flee from us (James 4:7).

In this battle the devil wants to defeat us, but cannot resist the power of God. But if he can persuade us to lay down our weapons he can make life much harder for us. In this context laying down our weapons means failing to use God's word, and therefore feeling afraid to confess our sins, repent, and be forgiven.

Finally I'd like to point at John 3:16 - "...for God so loved the world that he gave his son...". "The world" is universal, and includes all of us, no matter what we have done.

dljc
Dec 3rd 2008, 03:38 PM
Mcgyver, I'm a man that has shed few tears in his life, but right now my eyes are really welling up. I've started seeing the faces. I never used to see the faces, in my dreams, and now they have faces. It haunts me. I can't sleep without being startled, without waking up in a sweat, without my sidearm locked and loaded right next to me. It's affected every part of my life and not in a good way.
What's keeping me from God? Guilt and shame over all that I have done; disbelief that God could forgive someone like me. My heart is broken because I want to love God. I want a relationship with him but not sure if he would even have me. Jesus Christ help me!Sandman,

God forgives those who ask for forgiveness. I can relate to your torment, but for different reasons. I would like to remind you of a few of the people from the Old Testament:



Moses killed the Egyptian guard to save one of his people.
Samson slew 1000 men with the jaw bone of an ass.
Gideon and 300 men were called to go against the massive Midianite army.
Elijah slew 400 prophets of Baal.
David slew Goliath.
The sun stood still until this battle was over for Joshua.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

As Slug and Mcgyver are saying. God uses war to prevent evil from getting the upper hand on us. I want to give you something to think about it's a passage from Psalms.

Psalm 23
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Look at verse 4 "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." Where do you think you've been, and where do you think you are right now? The valley of the shadow of death. Now look at verse 5 "Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over." That table is offered through Salvation through Jesus Christ. He's offered this to everyone, but some won't take Him up on His offer.

Go to Him in prayer and ask Him to take these things away, and trust that He will. That's where the first three verses come in especially the beginning of verse 3 "He restoreth my soul". He is the only One who can heal these hurts you feel. Read the Bible, read the different accounts I've alluded to above, and you will see that God uses war as has been said.

Hang in there buddy, and thanks again for your service to this country. And you can start a thread in the chat to the Moderators forum on the main page and talk to Slug and Mcgyver a little more privately if you need to. :hug:

Sandman1
Dec 3rd 2008, 04:26 PM
Roger that and thank you

mcgyver
Dec 3rd 2008, 04:28 PM
Curiosity... Ft. Lewis?

(Went brain dead for a minute there...Hunter is in Ga...if you saw this before I edited it :lol:)

I had Ranger on the brain :P


Update by tango:

Since the OP has now accepted Jesus as his Saviour, this thread is now closed. Welcome to the kingdom Sandman!