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Lady Ashanti
Dec 7th 2008, 02:57 AM
I know the last 7 years will begin when Israel signs the peace treaty according to the book of Daniel. Also, I know that the "mark" will be instituted during that time, and I know no one will be able to buy or sell, without it according to the book of Revelation. However where does it say that it will start at the middle of the last 7 years?

Also, does the anti-christ know he is the anti-christ, or does this happen when satan enters him after he dies and has the false resurrection?

Is this something we have always taken for granted but is not true?

markedward
Dec 7th 2008, 06:51 AM
I know the last 7 years will begin when Israel signs the peace treaty according to the book of Daniel.Where does Daniel mention a "peace treaty"? Daniel speaks of a "covenant", but where does he speak of a peace treaty?


Also, I know that the "mark" will be instituted during that time, and I know no one will be able to buy or sell, without it according to the book of Revelation. However where does it say that it will start at the middle of the last 7 years?The Revelation only speaks of timeframes consisting of: "time and times and half-a-time" (3.5 years), 42 months (3.5 years), 1260 days (3.5 years), etc. The Revelation never mentions a time period of 7 years. It consistently speaks of 3.5 year time periods (and a 5 month time period in chapter 9).


Also, does the anti-christ know he is the anti-christ, or does this happen when satan enters him after he dies and has the false resurrection?The Revelation does not say "the antichrist" will be possessed by Satan. It says he "lends his power" but no possession is mentioned, so we shouldn't go as far as saying that Satan possesses him. Further, the Revelation says that the beast is wounded and appeared dead, it doesn't say that he actually died - you're right that it's a "false resurrection", but a full-on death isn't being predicted. Why? Because, theologically, if Satan actually had the power to bring a dead person back to life it would drastically destroy the gospel's credibility about Christ's resurrection. Meaning, if Satan is capable of bring dead people to life, who's to say Christ was a liar about being the messiah and that Satan was the one who brought him to life? When Christ exhibited his healing power and the Pharisees said He was a worker for Satan, Christ called this blasphemy - they were attributing something only God could do (healing/power of life) to Satan as a way to deny Christ's divinity and messiahship. Satan has no power over life, so he could never bring someone who is dead back to life. The Revelation says the beast appeared dead, not that it actually died.

quiet dove
Dec 7th 2008, 06:55 AM
I know the last 7 years will begin when Israel signs the peace treaty according to the book of Daniel. Also, I know that the "mark" will be instituted during that time, and I know no one will be able to buy or sell, without it according to the book of Revelation. However where does it say that it will start at the middle of the last 7 years?

Also, does the anti-christ know he is the anti-christ, or does this happen when satan enters him after he dies and has the false resurrection?

Is this something we have always taken for granted but is not true?

I kinda thought about it like this one day. You know how Christ was tempted and told Satan to stick it. The one tempted that is the Antichrist, won't tell him to stick it, the one who becomes the AC will take him up on his offer to give him the world if he (AC) will but bow down to him and worship him(Satan).

Rev 13:4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

DurbanDude
Dec 7th 2008, 08:24 AM
I know the last 7 years will begin when Israel signs the peace treaty according to the book of Daniel. Also, I know that the "mark" will be instituted during that time, and I know no one will be able to buy or sell, without it according to the book of Revelation. However where does it say that it will start at the middle of the last 7 years?

Also, does the anti-christ know he is the anti-christ, or does this happen when satan enters him after he dies and has the false resurrection?

Is this something we have always taken for granted but is not true?

The woman represents Israel , when Satan has his short period of wrath on earth, Israel is kept safe yet the saints are persecuted for 3.5 years:
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. ........then
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13 confirms this 3.5 years of power of the beast and persecution of the saints
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

More about this period of power of the beast:
13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

There are a few other verses that indicate that when the antichrist comes to power and declares himself as God , this is an abomination that will last for 3.5 years.

So there is clarity that there will be 3.5 years when the antichrist reigns, during which the saints are persecuted and when the mark is in effect.

As for your other questions: the 7 year period is controversial , whereas the 3.5 year period isn't.

You need to have an understanding of the symbolism of the beasts and heads to understand why the beast came, went, and then comes again, but this is not referring to a resurrected antichrist, this concept isn't biblical. We don't have enough detail to know anything about what the antichrist knows, he could think he is God, or maybe he knows he is a fraud the whole time , I personally don't know the answer here.

Lady Ashanti
Dec 7th 2008, 05:00 PM
I kinda thought about it like this one day. You know how Christ was tempted and told Satan to stick it. The one tempted that is the Antichrist, won't tell him to stick it, the one who becomes the AC will take him up on his offer to give him the world if he (AC) will but bow down to him and worship him(Satan).

Rev 13:4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

Thank you for answering one of my questions, so will this be how he comes into power, or do you think this happens in the middle of his reigning?

Also, does scripture give a time when the mark will be initiated? I was always "taught" that it would happen in the middle, however I am searching for scripture to validate this.

Blessings...

quiet dove
Dec 7th 2008, 09:24 PM
Thank you for answering one of my questions, so will this be how he comes into power, or do you think this happens in the middle of his reigning?

Also, does scripture give a time when the mark will be initiated? I was always "taught" that it would happen in the middle, however I am searching for scripture to validate this.

Blessings...

This is my take on it or my understanding which of course I am still always learning and praying (sometimes begging I think) God for understanding. But this is kinda where I am at with my thoughts

Isa 47:10 "For you have trusted in your wickedness; You have said, 'No one sees me'; Your wisdom and your knowledge have warped you; And you have said in your heart, 'I am, and there is no one else besides me.'

We can see from the prophets that when Israel reached this point, it was not good for Israel, and I believe neither will it be good for us.


As I have said in the past, I think the AC will look like the best thing since sliced bread and only those in Christ Jesus will pick up on the fact that the bread is moldy. And if we consider how easy it is for even believers to misunderstand a bad teacher for a good one, I think it is safe to say the AC will be extremely likable and needless to say,dangerous.

It seems also important to consider that the AC, following and worshiping Satan, will not be looking at it like we would, the AC will think of Satan as God and a good thing, where as we are horrified of the thought. Plus those who follow the AC will feel the same way. Satan will play on human pride, going back to the lie in the Garden. It seems rather obvious, but what is weird is also going undetected for the most part as this false lie gently creeps in all around us and has been doing so at an rapid increased rate for 20-30 years now.

Isa 2:6 For You have forsaken Your people, the house of Jacob, Because they are filled with eastern ways; They are soothsayers ....

I think the same thing is happening again. We have mysticism all around and under whatever terminology it required for the practices to infiltrat, everything from science to Christianity. Then to make matters worse, it is so intermingled, a lie with truthful sounding terminology that it is extreemly difficult to pick up on and contend against. It is obvious, yet coming in stealth.

At any rate, it will be the "religion" the AC preaches, after all, he found godhood, so can everyone esle, and human pride will eat it up and the deception will take hold, it already is, even with in Christianity, and not one of those professing Christians realizes where what they are doing is taking them.

It is all a little more complicated and much much more depth is required to explain my thoughts but I know this is already getting long.

It seems to make sense that the mark will not be viewed by those who take it like it is viewed by us. I think tricking people into the mark defeats the purpose of it. People will, in their deception, choose and want the mark, at least many of them will. They will reject Almighty God and His Redemption because they do not believe themselve to need Him or Jesus to save them. They are all they need. They are as God. It is the oldest lie, the one Satan told Adam and Eve in the Garden.

As for when the mark will happen, not sure, but it seems that deception will have to takes it's course, people may take the mark through out and then a time come when it is a must for survival.

To my understanding, the AC will at some point claim to be God and it may be at that point the "demand" is made which I think is about mid way through what I consider the GT of seven years.

I don't mean to come across dogmatic, those are just my thoughts and based on my studies and watching.

markedward
Dec 8th 2008, 12:12 AM
At any rate, it will be the "religion" the AC preaches, after all, he found godhood, so can everyone esleThe Revelation depicts the beast ("the antichrist") as one who demands all other people worship him... it does not depict him as creating a religion where all people are treated as gods. He is described as oppressive and causes all to treat him as a god, not someone who is passive and tricks everyone into thinking they're each gods.

quiet dove
Dec 8th 2008, 12:57 AM
The Revelation depicts the beast ("the antichrist") as one who demands all other people worship him... it does not depict him as creating a religion where all people are treated as gods. He is described as oppressive and causes all to treat him as a god, not someone who is passive and tricks everyone into thinking they're each gods.

I realize that so apparently I didn't clarify enough. What I see happening is a form of religion that will lead its followers to believe the AC is a god based on what they themselves are trying to achieve, however, I do agree that at some point the AC will show his true colors in that he will claim to be god, by then though the deception will be overwhelming and for those effected it will be to late, not to mention many will believe him to be a god and to be god, but the lie of them also being like god will still be prevelant and they will worship the beast either based on their loyalty or by his demand, or, they will be killed.

Aviva
Dec 8th 2008, 02:39 AM
Its about 7 years. At the end, there is given the israelites 7 months to bury the dead before Christ can return.
This lines up somehow with Jewish feasts; in some years, its exactly 2520 days from the feast of Pentecost to Jewish New Year.

DurbanDude
Dec 8th 2008, 07:27 AM
Thank you for answering one of my questions, so will this be how he comes into power, or do you think this happens in the middle of his reigning?

Also, does scripture give a time when the mark will be initiated? I was always "taught" that it would happen in the middle, however I am searching for scripture to validate this.

Blessings...

Sorry to interject here , but I thought that the verses I quoted answered this already. Yes Revelation 13:5 shows that the beast has power for 3.5 years (42 months) and Rev 13 shows us that he will persecute the saints and force everyone to have the mark for those last 3.5 years of this age.

So if you believe in a 7 year period, then there is biblical confirmation that the last half of that seven year period will involve the beast persecuting the saints and "marking" the people.

I personally only believe in a 3.5 year period , believing Jesus fulfilled the first half of Daniel 9:27, but that is for another discussion.

Roelof
Dec 14th 2008, 01:53 PM
Also, does scripture give a time when the mark will be initiated? I was always "taught" that it would happen in the middle, however I am searching for scripture to validate this.

Blessings...

Some countries already started with medical biochips, which I regard as the fore-runner for the final mark

bthafree
Dec 16th 2008, 05:00 AM
The mark is not a chip or tatoo. It's worshiping(aka doing the work of the anti-christ "hands" and beleiving in his cause "forehead") the devil. I don't know why anyone would do so, but if you put a chip into your skin or get a tatoo of 6's all over your skin that doesn't take away your slavation. Your salvation is in your heart/mind. No one can take that away from you, unless of course you start believing in anything but, the Word of God.