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Reedan
Dec 11th 2008, 01:11 AM
Jeremiah 31:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=30&chapter=31&verse=37&version=31&context=verse)
This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD.

What do you all think this means?:)

Kahtar
Dec 11th 2008, 02:25 AM
It pretty much means what it says.;)

faithbuilders
Dec 11th 2008, 02:28 AM
Jeremiah 31:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=30&chapter=31&verse=37&version=31&context=verse)
This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD.

What do you all think this means?:)

In other words, nomater what we do, God will never give up on us!

Lars777
Dec 11th 2008, 08:16 AM
Thus says the Lord:
"If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the descendants of Israel
for all that they have done, says the Lord." (Jeremiah 31:37




That is, he guarantees that one of these days he will open their eyes and they will understand, and will turn again as a people. And Israel shall fill the earth and be the head of the nations, as God has promised.

And David their king shall rule over them. Days of glory and joy shall come back again to earth. For as Paul argues in the eleventh chapter of Romans, if the temporary rejection of Israel meant riches and joy and grace to us, how much more will their full inclusion mean, the salvation of this people, when they come at last into their promise.

And just as he has made it sure to them, so he makes it sure to us. This is our promise.

kenrank
Dec 11th 2008, 12:53 PM
Jeremiah 31:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=30&chapter=31&verse=37&version=31&context=verse)
This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD.

What do you all think this means?:)

I think it somewhat goes along with Romans 11, where we see Israel had been cutoff due to disbelief. But it goes on and says that if they continue not in their disbelief, God is able to graft them in again. We have to remember...and this is important for those taking part in the OSAS discussion....he perfects who HE wills. And while Judah and Israel turned away from God, He has clearly (as seen in your verse Reedan) left the door open for us (all) to repent.

Peace.
Ken

Gregg
Dec 11th 2008, 01:42 PM
Jeremiah 31:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=30&chapter=31&verse=37&version=31&context=verse)
This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD.

What do you all think this means?:)

Isn't this a statement about God's promise to keep a remenant of Israel no matter what?

kenrank
Dec 11th 2008, 01:54 PM
Isn't this a statement about God's promise to keep a remenant of Israel no matter what?

Yes, but what is your definition of remnant? We in general (and I am guilty of this until recently) think of a remnant as being a small amount. That isn't what a remnant is. Let's say you go to a fabric store and you want to buy a yard of fabric. That color you want comes off a new roll, so they cut away the bindings on this 200 yard roll and cut away your 1 yard piece. The remaining roll is the remnant.

The seed of Abraham is so great it cannot be counted. I think the context then leans toward much of the roll left over, rather than a little.

Peace.
Ken

RogerW
Dec 11th 2008, 02:24 PM
Jeremiah 31:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=30&chapter=31&verse=37&version=31&context=verse)
This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD.

What do you all think this means?:)

It means that all of Israel will be saved! Now the question is...what Israel? The physical seed; i.e. sons of Abraham through natural birth, or the spiritual; i.e. sons of Abraham through spiritual re-birth?

Many Blessings,
RW

Gregg
Dec 11th 2008, 02:28 PM
Yes, but what is your definition of remnant? We in general (and I am guilty of this until recently) think of a remnant as being a small amount. That isn't what a remnant is. Let's say you go to a fabric store and you want to buy a yard of fabric. That color you want comes off a new roll, so they cut away the bindings on this 200 yard roll and cut away your 1 yard piece. The remaining roll is the remnant.

The seed of Abraham is so great it cannot be counted. I think the context then leans toward much of the roll left over, rather than a little.

Peace.
Ken

Or maybe 144,000? Physical seed.

RogerW
Dec 11th 2008, 02:34 PM
Or maybe 144,000? Physical seed.

Hi Gregg,

Where does that leave the great multitude that no man can number? Are they not also among the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, or the Israel of God?

Ga 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Many Blessings,
RW

kenrank
Dec 11th 2008, 02:35 PM
Or maybe 144,000? Physical seed.

Maybe Gregg...I am not so sure about that. Rev 7 calls them "sealed servants" and not necessarily "saved Israel." Their purpose is certainly open to interpretation (one of the reasons I tend to avoid end time discussion...too much interpretation). I >>think<< their purpose might have something to do with the 1000 year reign. If you notice, at the end of that satan is let loose to try and deceive the nations again. But, at the beginning of that reign, we have been changed..made "incorruptable." So he being let loose will not have an effect on it...we are incorruptable. There are clearly then people alive who are not made that way...and maybe these 144,000 are priests and teachers to them? With the temple being rebuilt, maybe servants dealing the with daily affairs?? The only thing clear about the 144,000 is that they are servants.

Peace.
Ken

RogerW
Dec 11th 2008, 02:40 PM
Maybe Gregg...I am not so sure about that. Rev 7 calls them "sealed servants" and not necessarily "saved Israel." Their purpose is certainly open to interpretation (one of the reasons I tend to avoid end time discussion...too much interpretation). I >>think<< their purpose might have something to do with the 1000 year reign. If you notice, at the end of that satan is let loose to try and deceive the nations again. But, at the beginning of that reign, we have been changed..made "incorruptable." So he being let loose will not have an effect on it...we are incorruptable. There are clearly then people alive who are not made that way...and maybe these 144,000 are priests and teachers to them? With the temple being rebuilt, maybe servants dealing the with daily affairs?? The only thing clear about the 144,000 is that they are servants.

Peace.
Ken

I would argue that the 144,000 remnant are the firstfruits, or spiritual offspring from the nation, together with the spiritual great multitude that no man can number from among the nations. Together these; i.e. the remnant (144,000) and the great multitude, make up "all Israel that shall be saved."

Many blessings,
RW

Gregg
Dec 11th 2008, 02:43 PM
Hi Gregg,

Where does that leave the great multitude that no man can number? Are they not also among the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, or the Israel of God?

Ga 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Many Blessings,
RW


Maybe the great multitude is both?

kenrank
Dec 11th 2008, 02:59 PM
I would argue that the 144,000 remnant are the firstfruits, or spiritual offspring from the nation, together with the spiritual great multitude that no man can number from among the nations. Together these; i.e. the remnant (144,000) and the great multitude, make up "all Israel that shall be saved."

Many blessings,
RW

You could be right RW...or way off base. (I would think closer to right) But, the scripture is truly silent about them. "Sealed servants" is all we are given. Time will tell, we will know for sure eventually.

Peace RW.
Ken

RogerW
Dec 11th 2008, 03:41 PM
You could be right RW...or way off base. (I would think closer to right) But, the scripture is truly silent about them. "Sealed servants" is all we are given. Time will tell, we will know for sure eventually.

Peace RW.
Ken

If you're referring to the 144,000 remnant from the nation, Scripture is not silent, we read:

Re 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

So we know how many (whether a literal or symbolic number) belong to the remnant from all the tribes of the children of Israel. What we don't know is how many (great innumerable multitude) come into the Kingdom from the Gentile nations of the world.

Many Blessings,
RW

Romber
Dec 11th 2008, 05:01 PM
To answer the original poster:

It essentially boils down to science. God is making the statement that man will never be able to measure out the Heavens (presumably space) or measure out the foundations of the Earth. Science is wasting money for research in such areas as God makes it quite clear it is impossible.