PDA

View Full Version : Knowing what you now know, who do you free?



kenrank
Dec 12th 2008, 05:22 AM
So you are among the people, knowing what you NOW know...do you free Barabbas or Jesus? Please do not post your reason for your answer for a few days...I don't want it to sway how others vote. Thanks.
Ken

mikebr
Dec 12th 2008, 12:22 PM
Not my reason but do you realize that Bar-Abbas means son of the father but we all know that Jesus was the Real Son of the Real Father.

Walstib
Dec 12th 2008, 01:13 PM
I have the power to free one of them or am I just yelling out in the crowd my choice?

Honestly,
Joe

EDIT: If I do have the power is it the kind Pilate had along with the circumstances of the crowd yelling at me? Not trying to be difficult, just all affects my answer.

kenrank
Dec 12th 2008, 03:51 PM
I have the power to free one of them or am I just yelling out in the crowd my choice?

Honestly,
Joe

EDIT: If I do have the power is it the kind Pilate had along with the circumstances of the crowd yelling at me? Not trying to be difficult, just all affects my answer.

You have the power to free...

Walstib
Dec 12th 2008, 05:34 PM
Man that just makes it harderů.

Can I ask Jesus what He wants me to do first? :lol:

Just having fun there, not a serious question.

I voted to free Jesus.

Friend of I AM
Dec 12th 2008, 08:48 PM
So you are among the people, knowing what you NOW know...do you free Barabbas or Jesus? Please do not post your reason for your answer for a few days...I don't want it to sway how others vote. Thanks.
Ken

I think many people not knowing who Jesus was would still free Barabbas..or someone similar to him. They'd probably call any man who did things similar to Jesus a lunatick..or demon possessed. Sadly, the more things change..the more they stay the same.

Edit: I'd free Jesus...since Barrabas was known as a murderer...and who knows what else the guy did..

Edit: Did a lookup of the name Barrabas from Wikipedia..here's what I found...

Abba has been found as a personal name in a First Century burial at Giv'at ja-Mivtar and Abba also appears as a personal name frequently in the Gemara section of the Talmud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud), dating from AD 200-400.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas#cite_note-11) This would mean that Barabbas was the son of one named Abba.

Hope this helps everyone in there studies..

Gregg
Dec 12th 2008, 08:56 PM
I am freeing Jesus.

Gulah Papyrus
Dec 12th 2008, 09:04 PM
Since Barabas represents all of us sinners and Jesus not only took his punishment but all of our punishment, I would free Barabas. Jesus came here to set the sinner free and take his place to pay sins wages. I wouldn't want to get in the way of his mission.

Also, Jesus had complete control of the situation so really He freed Barabas as He freed all sinners.

:pp:pp:pp

Gregg
Dec 12th 2008, 09:15 PM
I said Jesus, because no matter what the mission knowing what I know, I am not sure I could ever get over the guilt. I also know that nothing I would/could do would stop him from his mission. So I would free him but he would still save me and all who come to him.

Ekeak
Dec 12th 2008, 09:58 PM
I think God's plan was wise.

IamBill
Dec 12th 2008, 10:27 PM
I would have to free Barabbas

Just_Another_Guy
Dec 12th 2008, 10:34 PM
I think God's plan was wise.

Here's a verse that confirms what you say as true.

Ephesians 4:9-10
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

In terms of conscience though..how on earth could one know what they know now and do such a thing. I wouldn't condemn an innocent man. I think we know that God had a purpose/plan in mind when he did what he did..but from a conscience perspective..I couldn't do it even knowing it fulfilled a greater purpose.

Lefty
Dec 12th 2008, 11:13 PM
If I'd been in that crowd I wouldn't gotten my head torn off if I'd said anything in favor of Jesus, so I just would've run, like his friends did. That scene was hell on earth, same as 40 years later during the insane, cannabalistic free-for-all in 70 ad Jerusalem.

I would have been grimly fascinating to have been there for the three days afterwards though. To see the behavior of all those who were pondering just what they'd done and how to resolve the turmoil inside them.

Tanya~
Dec 12th 2008, 11:28 PM
It seems that the power to free Jesus was not in anyone's hands because God intended to deliver Him up.

Acts 2:23
23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death
NKJV


Many of these who called for His crucifixion were saved on Pentecost too.

ServantofTruth
Dec 12th 2008, 11:36 PM
I would have failed to make the right decision. Those who knew more at the time, still got many things wrong. Peter, James & John, Andrew, Thomas - well all of them. I think i can say with certainty i would have made more bad decisions than the apostles. :cry: SofTy.

tt1106
Dec 13th 2008, 01:14 AM
God's will be done. You can try to free Jesus all you want, but if God wants him to die on a cross, You will not thwart it. Ask Jonah what happens when you tell God NO. :)

Walstib
Dec 13th 2008, 02:23 AM
Looks like we are to the sharing reasoning time now.

I said Jesus because I would have a clear conscience and take what ever repercussions from the crowd, lose my job, death... They would have taken Him by force no matter what my decision I think. Nothing could stop the plan. My power to free Him would have been trumped by God in some way.

Sure many denied him then but it was knowing what we know now not what they did before the ascension. I don't even want to imagine myself denying Jesus when faced with death as I know him. Quite an honor to be martyred I think. Not that it is on my Christmas wish list or anything.

Thanks for the question Ken, interesting to consider.

FaithfulSheep
Dec 13th 2008, 03:39 AM
Since Barabas represents all of us sinners and Jesus not only took his punishment but all of our punishment, I would free Barabas. Jesus came here to set the sinner free and take his place to pay sins wages. I wouldn't want to get in the way of his mission.

Also, Jesus had complete control of the situation so really He freed Barabas as He freed all sinners.

:pp:pp:pp

I chose Barabas for that exact reason.

crossnote
Dec 13th 2008, 07:27 AM
To free Jesus mean we would all die in our sins. Or put another way...to free Jesus would be to eternally condemn all mankind.

kenrank
Dec 14th 2008, 03:24 AM
Looks like we are to the sharing reasoning time now.

I said Jesus because I would have a clear conscience and take what ever repercussions from the crowd, lose my job, death... They would have taken Him by force no matter what my decision I think. Nothing could stop the plan. My power to free Him would have been trumped by God in some way.

Sure many denied him then but it was knowing what we know now not what they did before the ascension. I don't even want to imagine myself denying Jesus when faced with death as I know him. Quite an honor to be martyred I think. Not that it is on my Christmas wish list or anything.

Thanks for the question Ken, interesting to consider.

Since silence has been broken, we'll call it 17-9 in favor of Barabbas. Interesting......when I was asked this question my initial reaction was to say, "free Jesus of course." But, as the words left my lips I realized what I was saying. That was the appointef time for Messiah to give his life for his friends. That death and resurrection is that which gives us all life....so I SADLY had to admit, I would have freed Barabbas.

Peace to you all....and thank you for participating.

Ken

SIG
Dec 14th 2008, 04:13 AM
Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.

Mat 16:22 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid {it,} Lord! This shall never happen to You."

Mat 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

AngelAuthor
Dec 14th 2008, 05:39 AM
I say Barabas. Trying to free Jesus wouldn't be very wise because all it would do is condemn you, me and everyone else to hell. So assuming I COULD actually influence the vote, I would not set Jesus free knowing what I know now for a whole host of reasons:

1. Jesus came to die. I'm not going to thwart God's perfect plan even if I "could."
2. Jesus isn't going to STAY dead.
3. Jesus WANTS to die for me.
4. Setting Barabas free to go live a nice, happy healthy life and then die and go to hell...well, that's the Ahteist's way of living. The concern is only for the now and not the eternal. Setting the criminal free today is giving him life tomorrow and for all eternity.

I've asked this question before on a different message board and my answer remains the same: Were I in that crowd, my reaction would have to be Crucify Him!!

Though I'm sure I'd be bawling my eyes out as I said it.

kenrank
Dec 14th 2008, 05:42 AM
I say Barabas. Trying to free Jesus wouldn't be very wise because all it would do is condemn you, me and everyone else to hell. So assuming I COULD actually influence the vote, I would not set Jesus free knowing what I know now for a whole host of reasons:

1. Jesus came to die. I'm not going to thwart God's perfect plan even if I "could."
2. Jesus isn't going to STAY dead.
3. Jesus WANTS to die for me.
4. Setting Barabas free to go live a nice, happy healthy life and then die and go to hell...well, that's the Ahteist's way of living. The concern is only for the now and not the eternal. Setting the criminal free today is giving him life tomorrow and for all eternity.

I've asked this question before on a different message board and my answer remains the same: Were I in that crowd, my reaction would have to be Crucify Him!!

Though I'm sure I'd be bawling my eyes out as I said it.

I wouldn't be yelling crucify him, bit I realize NOW that he had an appointment, and to get in the way of that appointment would be to get in the way of humanity's opportunity at salvation.

Peace.
Ken

Lefty
Dec 14th 2008, 06:41 AM
I wouldn't be yelling crucify him, bit I realize NOW that he had an appointment, and to get in the way of that appointment would be to get in the way of humanity's opportunity at salvation.

Peace.
Ken

We agree he had an appointment that couldn't be thwarted by our will. Our votes would have been throwaway votes, so I'd like to think I would have voted to free Jesus if I'd been there, simply to show my support for him, which would have been the only thing it was good for.

It's an interesting question, and since you posted it I've been wondering about the scene; were there any believers there? or did God move to direct all his people away and let Satan have his way? Did the Father "forsake" the Son beginning at the mock trial, or was it later at the cross?

kenrank
Dec 14th 2008, 07:17 AM
We agree he had an appointment that couldn't be thwarted by our will. Our votes would have been throwaway votes, so I'd like to think I would have voted to free Jesus if I'd been there, simply to show my support for him, which would have been the only thing it was good for.

It's an interesting question, and since you posted it I've been wondering about the scene; were there any believers there? or did God move to direct all his people away and let Satan have his way? Did the Father "forsake" the Son beginning at the mock trial, or was it later at the cross?

I agree with you Lefty. If I had been there, I would have most certainly been screaming for Barabbas. (Bar means Son, and Abba is Father, the s just a Greek ending...strange)

But the question was "knowing what you know NOW." That does change the parameters a bit. Thanks for the input!!
Ken

carissadawn
Dec 15th 2008, 01:08 AM
God's will be done. You can try to free Jesus all you want, but if God wants him to die on a cross, You will not thwart it. Ask Jonah what happens when you tell God NO. :)

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

Biastai
Dec 15th 2008, 01:33 AM
I apologize if this verse was already posted...

"When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, and he went back inside the palace. 'Where do you come from?' he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 'Do you refuse to speak to me?' Pilate said. 'Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?'
Jesus answered, 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.'"
John 19:8-11

If one of us were there and he knew all he knows now, he could scream all he wants to free Jesus and it wouldn't happen. Pilate couldn't even do it. The apostles knew, and they still deserted him even though they left all they had to follow him.

crossnote
Dec 15th 2008, 07:31 AM
If one of us were there and he knew all he knows now, he could scream all he wants to free Jesus and it wouldn't happen. Pilate couldn't even do it. The apostles knew, and they still deserted him even though they left all they had to follow him.

This reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode I saw as a kid where a man went back in time via a time machine and ended up during the place and time where Lincoln was about to be assassinated by Booth. But no matter what he did to try to alter history and save Lincoln, he only ended up being incorporated into the history that was already to be.

Brother Mark
Dec 17th 2008, 12:49 PM
Since silence has been broken, we'll call it 17-9 in favor of Barabbas. Interesting......when I was asked this question my initial reaction was to say, "free Jesus of course." But, as the words left my lips I realized what I was saying. That was the appointef time for Messiah to give his life for his friends. That death and resurrection is that which gives us all life....so I SADLY had to admit, I would have freed Barabbas.

Peace to you all....and thank you for participating.

Ken

I like this question... the more I think about it, the more I like it.

Since I am Barabas, I voted to free Barabas. But since God desires my death as well, I too ended up on the cross in order to be just like Jesus. So I voted to kill Jesus and Jesus voted to kill me. As a result, I am becoming freer to love Him as he loved me.

joztok
Dec 17th 2008, 01:10 PM
Geesh!
Barabbas obviously.
Jesus gave up His life willingly to make an end to sin.

If everyone yelled out "Free Jesus!" I wonder if he would have yelled back: "Geesh! I'm trying to save the world here! Free Barabbas!"
Imagine their faces! :rofl:

BTW. I'm not taking this question seriously either.
But it's funny to see the results. How history repeats!

Firstfruits
Dec 17th 2008, 02:05 PM
It was Gods plan for Christ to die for our sins in the way he did. If they had chosen Jesus then what God had said concerning Christ would not have been fulfilled.

Where would we be today?

Firstfruits

kenrank
Dec 17th 2008, 05:30 PM
It was Gods plan for Christ to die for our sins in the way he did. If they had chosen Jesus then what God had said concerning Christ would not have been fulfilled.

Where would we be today?

Firstfruits

Well said FF. While I probably would have wanted him freed THEN, knowing what I know now..I would not because I know it was an "appointment" and nothing could have changed it anyway.

Peace.
Ken

reformedct
Dec 17th 2008, 10:21 PM
lol for all you who vote free Jesus, remember what Peter said

"surley it will not be so Lord"

GET BEHIND ME SATAN! hahahahaha jk but the point is, since Jesus came to die for sin, whether we voted to free Him or not, God's plan of atonement would have commenced either way

I choose whatever God wants

Friend of I AM
Dec 17th 2008, 10:40 PM
lol for all you who vote free Jesus, remember what Peter said

"surley it will not be so Lord"

GET BEHIND ME SATAN! hahahahaha jk but the point is, since Jesus came to die for sin, whether we voted to free Him or not, God's plan of atonement would have commenced either way

I choose whatever God wants

Remember what Peter stated afterwards though..

Acts 3:14-15
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.


Thus the individuals who handed Jesus over to be killed who knew of his innocence were charged by God as sinning, despite him being ordained by God as the sacraficial lamb. I think regardless of what one knows Gods plan now was..it would still be appropriate to do the right thing.

We see after his death, that the disciples did learn to do the right thing and became martyrs themselves. There were other men who also did the right thing in not going along with condemning Jesus. Joseph of the councel of Nicea is one such man that comes to mind...

Luke 23:50-55
And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:

(The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

markedward
Dec 18th 2008, 04:12 AM
In answer to the original question... then knowing what I know now, I would choose to free Jesus.

Just because He died for our sins doesn't mean I would want to knowingly condemn my savior to death. Look to the "beloved disciple". That disciple followed his savior to His death, but it was because he loved Him, not because he wanted to see Him die.

It was part of God's plan for Jesus to die for our sins, so I thank Him for that and I praise Him for the resurrection. But that doesn't mean I would want to knowingly be responsible for His death.

kenrank
Dec 18th 2008, 04:17 AM
In answer to the original question... then knowing what I know now, I would choose to free Jesus.

Just because He died for our sins doesn't mean I would want to knowingly condemn my savior to death. Look to the "beloved disciple". That disciple followed his savior to His death, but it was because he loved Him, not because he wanted to see Him die.

It was part of God's plan for Jesus to die for our sins, so I thank Him for that and I praise Him for the resurrection. But that doesn't mean I would want to knowingly be responsible for His death.

There really isn't a right or wrong answer! Of course we wouldn't stand and watch him die...it is against our....spirit.. to do that! At the same time, we now know he had to die, that he had an appointment with death. It is really a catch 22 of sorts. In part you would want to let it happen knowing salvation rests on it....yet, how do you allow the one you love the most to go through what he did?

Peace.
Ken

monergist
Dec 18th 2008, 04:25 AM
I guess I would free Jesus. He wasn't guilty of anything, right? I'm so glad this question is totally outside the realm of possibility. Jesus did what he came to do, die for our transgressions. God always accomplishes what he wants to accomplish.

dan
Dec 18th 2008, 01:31 PM
So you are among the people, knowing what you NOW know...do you free Barabbas or Jesus? Please do not post your reason for your answer for a few days...I don't want it to sway how others vote. Thanks.
Ken

...Would free Jesus. The Jews would still have killed Him.

LK 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

EX 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

LEV 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor.

Friend of I AM
Dec 18th 2008, 02:52 PM
It is an interesting question. Another interesting question would have been..what if one of the disciples had interceded..and asked God to be crucified with him? What do you think God's response would have been?

And an additional question would be, knowing what you know now about mankind..and possibly knowing that you may receive no reward and possibly only receive torment..would you take Jesus's place if God allowed you to?

Firstfruits
Dec 18th 2008, 04:22 PM
How did Jesus answer the question, and he knew the answer?

Mt 26:39 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=39) And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Mt 26:42 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=42) He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

God bless!

Firstfruits

jesuslover1968
Dec 18th 2008, 04:26 PM
Yeah, well, I messed up. I saw the question, and before I realized the ramifications of my actions...:lol:...I said Jesus. But if I freed Jesus, my sins would never have been forgiven...so I would have to say the murderer...

MissTissa77
Dec 18th 2008, 04:38 PM
Today is the first time I'm reading this. My first reaction was I'd like to free Jesus but then I realized, who am I to interfere in God's plans and tell him that I know better...plus, I (like all of us) need Jesus' salvation.
It's an interesting topic.

Just_Another_Guy
Dec 18th 2008, 05:39 PM
How did Jesus answer the question, and he knew the answer?

Mt 26:39 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=39) And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Mt 26:42 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=42) He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

God bless!

Firstfruits



Mark 10:37-39
They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. Jesus said, "You don't realize what you're asking. Can you drink the cup that I'm going to drink? Can you be baptized with the baptism that I'm going to receive?" We can," they told him. Jesus told them, "You will drink the cup that I'm going to drink. You will be baptized with the baptism that I'm going to receive.

So certainly the possibility of them being crucified with Jesus did exist, and I think God would have allowed them to if they so desired for the right reasons...specifically, loving reasons.

Friend of I AM
Dec 18th 2008, 06:04 PM
How did Jesus answer the question, and he knew the answer?

Mt 26:39 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=39) And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Mt 26:42 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=42) He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

God bless!

Firstfruits



Thanks for your scripture and for your insight.

Firstfruits
Dec 18th 2008, 08:36 PM
Thanks for your scripture and for your insight.

You are most welcome.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Friend of I AM
Dec 18th 2008, 09:30 PM
Mark 10:37-39
They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. Jesus said, "You don't realize what you're asking. Can you drink the cup that I'm going to drink? Can you be baptized with the baptism that I'm going to receive?" We can," they told him. Jesus told them, "You will drink the cup that I'm going to drink. You will be baptized with the baptism that I'm going to receive.

So certainly the possibility of them being crucified with Jesus did exist, and I think God would have allowed them to if they so desired for the right reasons...specifically, loving reasons.

This statement makes me think of the two men Jesus was positioned between on the cross.(Luke 23) I think there may be some sort of metaphorical aspect regarding God's justice and mercy being at play with these two men's request and the two men who were with him while he was being crucified.

Brother Mark
Dec 18th 2008, 09:56 PM
Jesus has a deal with all his followers... crucify me and I will crucify you. In this way, we are conformed to his image. I would vote again to crucify Christ and to free Barabas. For I was Barabas!