PDA

View Full Version : Was it possible for Jesus to sin?



ross3421
Dec 14th 2008, 10:49 PM
Thoughts.........

MercyChild
Dec 14th 2008, 10:56 PM
Well I am not really clued up with the Bible yet, but my thoughts is that it was possible for Him to sin, but He chose not to, because He had to be the perfect offer. As He became flesh he went through the very same things we do. I mean think about this, HE gave up His perfect place next to the Father, to come to earth to be rejected. He gave up everything He had, just for us.
He cried when Lazurus died, He was tempted by Satan. ect. He knew what it was like to be human, and that made it possible for Him to sin.But HE CHOSE not to sin, so that we could be saved!:hug:

Yukerboy
Dec 14th 2008, 10:59 PM
I would have said yes, but thinking it through...not so much.

If it were possible for Christ to sin, then it was possible for all the prophets to be wrong and make God a liar.

Jesus had the potential to sin, but He never could. God knew He wouldn't.

Kind of like Jesus telling Peter he would deny Christ three times. Peter didn't want to, but once Christ said it would happen, it had to happen, or else Christ became a liar.....which I guess would bring us back to whether Christ could sin or not. :)

Yuke

Butch5
Dec 14th 2008, 11:21 PM
Thoughts.........

Yes, Jesus could have sinned. He chose not to. Can we choose to sin?? I'm sure the answer will be yes, except maybe for Yuckerboy. If we can sin so could Jesus.

Hebrews 2:16-18 ( KJV ) 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

brakelite
Dec 14th 2008, 11:44 PM
Yes. Butch quoted an excellent verse. He was just as we are. One purpose in His coming as a man was to prove that it is possible to live in accordance with the law. Satan rebelled in heaven and suckered in 1/3 of the angels because he was discontent with the government. He thought he was worthy of worship too, thus thought he could do a better job of ruling than God. Is that not the basis for all rebellion? Discontent with the current law and the ruling authority? So as Satan continued to develop his rebelluion on earth through men, The decision needed to be made and the question answered: whose rule is better? God's rule of the heavenly kingdom through Christ and obedience to His laws, or Satan's rule on earth and disobedience to God's law.
If Jesus came and lived and had any advantage over us Satan would then have something to gloat over by claiming that it is impossible for man to be obedient, therefore God's laws are unfair, unjust, and arbitrarily impossible to obey.
Jesus showed that through love and faith in the power of God, anything was possible, including obedience and therefore faithful allegiance to the heavenly kingdom.

IamBill
Dec 15th 2008, 12:41 AM
I agree also - yes :)

tt1106
Dec 15th 2008, 01:13 AM
Christ was sinless.

watchinginawe
Dec 15th 2008, 01:17 AM
This is one of those that is easy to go back and forth on.

Jesus Christ

Man God

Anyway, as a man, it seems Jesus was subject to the potential of sin:

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

But Jesus did not become God by not sinning. He was already God. So who could Jesus have sinned against?

So, as Jesus Christ, if He was who He claimed to be, then He couldn't sin.

See what I mean? :o

But such thinking can be extended to other things as well. For example, was it possible for Jesus to die? We know Jesus died. Did God die? Of course not. So in the sense that Jesus could and did die, I also believe that Jesus could and didn't sin.

God Bless!

Butch5
Dec 15th 2008, 01:48 AM
This is one of those that is easy to go back and forth on.

Jesus Christ

Man God

Anyway, as a man, it seems Jesus was subject to the potential of sin:

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

But Jesus did not become God by not sinning. He was already God. So who could Jesus have sinned against?

So, as Jesus Christ, if He was who He claimed to be, then He couldn't sin.

See what I mean? :o

But such thinking can be extended to other things as well. For example, was it possible for Jesus to die? We know Jesus died. Did God die? Of course not. So in the sense that Jesus could and did die, I also believe that Jesus could and didn't sin.

God Bless!

When we say God we have to differentiate between deity and the Father.
Jesus was God (deity), but He was not the Father. It was possible for Him to sin agaist the Father.

Laish
Dec 15th 2008, 01:51 AM
Interesting question ross3421
Was it possible for Jesus to sin?I will put it in the same category as the question can God make a rock so big that He can not move it ?;)
Jesus was in deed fully man but also fully God too ,an to sin is to separate one self from God . So would Jesus separate Himself from Himself ? My opinion is that No he could not sin . Jesus is God an God dose not act contrary to His own nature .
Your brother in Christ
Bill

Bladers
Dec 15th 2008, 01:58 AM
Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[a]the sins of the people.


Philippians 2:6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Butch5
Dec 15th 2008, 01:59 AM
Interesting question ross3421 I will put it in the same category as the question can God make a rock so big that He can not move it ?;)
Jesus was in deed fully man but also fully God too ,an to sin is to separate one self from God . So would Jesus separate Himself from Himself ? My opinion is that No he could not sin . Jesus is God an God dose not act contrary to His own nature .
Your brother in Christ
Bill

If He couldn't sin, then He wasn't tempted just as we are.

Yukerboy
Dec 15th 2008, 02:05 AM
Define temptation.

Bladers
Dec 15th 2008, 02:20 AM
Define temptation.

James 1:14-15 (NIV)
14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.


James 1:14-15 (KJV)
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

watchinginawe
Dec 15th 2008, 02:28 AM
When we say God we have to differentiate between deity and the Father.
Jesus was God (deity), but He was not the Father. It was possible for Him to sin agaist the Father.God is God. IMO, there is not the possibility of a dissention between the persons of the Godhead. There was the possibility that Jesus wasn't who He claimed to be. THAT possibility would have been proven if Jesus had sinned, right? Jesus' sinless life proves His deity.

God Bless!

Bladers
Dec 15th 2008, 02:36 AM
God is God. IMO, there is not the possibility of a dissention between the persons of the Godhead. There was the possibility that Jesus wasn't who He claimed to be. THAT possibility would have been proven if Jesus had sinned, right? Jesus' sinless life proves His deity.

God Bless!

Look at these scriptures...

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[a]the sins of the people.


Philippians 2:6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Laish
Dec 15th 2008, 02:47 AM
Hi Butch5 you said
If He couldn't sin, then He wasn't tempted just as we are. Yes Jesus was tempted but it was not a demonstration that Jesus could sin but to show through Jesus we can victory over temptation an sin . :pp
Your brother in Christ
Bill

watchinginawe
Dec 15th 2008, 02:52 AM
Look at these scriptures...

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[a]the sins of the people.


Philippians 2:6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.Those are some of my favorites. :) I would never deny the humanity of Jesus, just like I would never deny His divinity.

I'm not sure if you object to what I have posted or not. Read back through my posts in the thread and see if there is a specific point you object to.

God Bless!

Butch5
Dec 15th 2008, 04:58 AM
God is God. IMO, there is not the possibility of a dissention between the persons of the Godhead. There was the possibility that Jesus wasn't who He claimed to be. THAT possibility would have been proven if Jesus had sinned, right? Jesus' sinless life proves His deity.

God Bless!

There is no question of His deity, He is God (deity). The Greek word theos means deity or divine. This word is also used of the Father, that is why I said we need to clarify when we use the word God. Are we talking about deity or are we talking about the Father? If we say Jesus is God, then we are talking about deity, because Jesus is not the Father. Both the Father and Jesus are God in that they are both deity or divine.

brakelite
Dec 15th 2008, 05:04 AM
Had He been endowed from the start with absolute impeccability or with the impossibility of sinning, He could not be a true man, nor our model for imitation: His holiness, instead of being His own self-acquired act and inherent merit, would be an accidental or outward gift, and His temptation an unreal show. As a true man, Christ must have been a free and responsible moral agent: freedom implies the power of choice between good and evil, and the power of disobedience as well as obedience to the law of God.
Philip Schaff The Person of Christ. pp35,36.

The expression in Hebrews that "He was tempted in all points as we" would be meaningless if it were impossible for Jesus to sin. He was a complete man. If it were not possible for Jesus to sin, then He would be not able to empathize with us in our temptations. This would be quite contrary to what the scriptures teach.

Scruffy Kid
Dec 15th 2008, 06:09 AM
Thanks, Ross, for the very challenging question!
Was it possible for Jesus to Sin? It is making me think more about the beauty and greatness of God, and of Jesus Christ!
One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after;
that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life,
to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. (Ps 27:4)
And very nicely put watchinginawe!!

This is one of those that is easy to go back and forth on.

Jesus Christ
Man God

Anyway, as a man, it seems Jesus was subject to the potential of sin:

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

But Jesus ... was ... God. So who could Jesus have sinned against?
So, as Jesus Christ, if He was who He claimed to be, then He couldn't sin.

See what I mean? :o

But such thinking can be extended to other things as well. For example, was it possible for Jesus to die? We know Jesus died. Did God die? Of course not. So in the sense that Jesus could and did die, I also believe that Jesus could and didn't sin.
My Thinking on the great Mystery of Christ's humanity, divinity, and love

Jesus eternally is God: He is so from "before all ages", that is prior to the existence of the temporal order, time & space and all that fills them.

Who God is and What God is

God the Son (and God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, each) is God, I suppose we would say, in two senses: as possessing the attributes of Deity (omniscience, omnipotence, immortality, ineffability, eternity, and so on), and as the person (God the Son, in this case) -- the Divine Person -- that He is. That is, God, or each person of the Godhead, is God as regards what He is, and as regards Who He is.

The Person that Jesus eternally is could never have willed to Sin

Who Jesus is never changed: He is the same person "as God" that He is "as man." Thus, while it was possible for the Eternal Son and Word of God (God the Son) to exist as a man, a human being, apart from the characteristics of the Divine Nature, that is, apart from the characteristics of "being God" His fundamental identity was unchanged. He could, in that sense, "empty himself" (Phil. 2:7) of His Divine power, and immortality, etc.; but He could not have emptied himself of goodness and love, for that is Who He (unchangeably) is.

Thus, I'd suppose, it was not in Him -- not consistent with His personhood (His heart, so to speak) -- to do wrong. In that sense, being Who He is, He never would have, or have been capable of, doing wrong.

Yet Christ's human nature, as such, I suppose was capable of sin,
though He was perfect man, full and flawless in His humanity created (like Adam) in God's image

But His human nature, like any human nature, was capable of choosing wrong. That He did not so choose, when (in that sense) He, as man, could have so chosen, is the outworking of Who He (eternally) is (Whom we adore, and Who is blessed forever!)

Thus the theologians, carefully following the Scriptures and what Jesus said of Himself, have told us that while Christ, as God, shared the Divine will, yet as a human being He had a human will. This is what we see going on in His prayer in the garden (Gethsemene), in His temptation in the wilderness, and in what Hebrews says of His being tested just as we are, being in all points like us (save without sin). "Whatever is not assumed is not healed", say Athanasius and the Capadocians, echoing, in effect, the author of Hebrews. Jesus fully heals, can fully access (relate to) all our human nature because he was in all points like us: he took on all of our humanity, and our struggles (but without sinning).

Summing up:
The human nature of Jesus was such that it was capable of sinning (as the Divine Nature is not, for it is wholly good -- I John 1:5, James 1:13, 17, etc. -- and the source of all good); but He did not sin, and could not have sinned, not because Christ's human nature was incapable of such a thing, but because the Person He is is the very Person God the Son, Who, being wholly good, cannot do or desire wrong.

Some other perspectives amplifying this way of thinking

("Though He be both man and God yet He is One Christ: One not by confusion of substance, but by unity of Person" as the QQV -- the Quicunque Vult or "Athanasian Creed" -- so beuatifully puts it. "One not by the conversion of the Godhead", the Divine Nature, "into flesh, but by the taking of the manhood into God." His goodness, in other words, comes not by the Divine Nature overwhelming the human nature -- that would make Him less than human, would compromise and distort His humanity -- but by His freely choosing, as a man, the love of the Father and the will of the Father. Yet that He did so was "no accident": it follows, inevitably, from the goodness of Who He is.)

Chas. Wesley (I think) catches this well -- this overtone of Phil. 2 -- in And can it be (that I should gain an interest in the Savior's blood), when he writes: "Emptied himself of all but love"
He left His Father's throne above,
So free, so infinite, His grace,
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam's helpless race.
Tis Mercy all, immense and free
For O my God, it found out me!

A related thought is expressed (I believe) in the Christological Hymn (Phil. 2:5-11) itself, when it says (or Paul said, or the Church said) "Who, being in very nature God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped" (or, "Who, having the very shape of God's heart and personality" -- morphe Theou -- "naturally would not cling to being God and equal with God"(SK paraphrase), that is, wouldn't think of grasping on to it. Just because being God was (for God the Son, the Eternal Word) no kind of robbery, nothing like grasping -- ouk harpagmon -- clinging to His Deity is something He would of course not do, and so He emptied Himself. Emptied Himself, thus remaining the more Who He is, thus being the full expression (ho logos) of God's own being and heart. " God is love! and He who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in Him" as I John 4 puts it!)

Something of this mystery, it seems to me, also is expressed in the "Therefore" (dia kai) -- "Therefore God has highly exalted Him" -- and in the phrase "The name that is above every name." The principle of Christ's being -- the name of Jesus -- is itself utterly ineffable: it's not just above every other name, but "beyond naming", so to speak.

By dint of Who He is -- the Eternal Son of God -- Jesus necessarily expresses Who God is

Christ does nothing but what He sees the Father doing; and what we've just said of the ineffability of His Name, is likewise the case with the great name of God, YHWH, the Divine Name proper (which cannot, in Judaism, be spoken, and whose meaning is not like a name as such things usually go, but is the explication of the mystery of self-existent being, "I am that I am"). Conversely, the mystery of God's being is expressed in that He who is Highest, and all in all, has, just by dint of that, the capacity to make himself as nothing, and even to take on our sin. And, again, it is exactly what Christ did -- not only in humbling Himself in the Incarnation, but in "humbling Himself to death, even death on a cross" that is itself the full expression of Who God is!

Praises Ever Be to His Holy Name!!

Bless the LORD, O my soul:
.....and all that is within me, bless his holy name.

Bless the LORD, O my soul,
.....and forget not all his benefits:
Who forgives all thine iniquities;
.....who heals all thy diseases;
Who redeems thy life from destruction;
.....who crowns thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
Who satisfies thy mouth with good things;
.....so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

The LORD executes righteousness
.....and judgment for all that are oppressed.
He made known his ways unto Moses,
.....his acts unto the children of Israel.
The LORD is merciful and gracious,
.....slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.

He will not always chide:
.....neither will he keep his anger for ever.
He has not dealt with us after our sins;
.....nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
For as the heaven is high above the earth,
.....so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
As far as the east is from the west,
.....so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Like as a father pities his children,
.....so the LORD pities them that fear him.
For he knows our frame;
.....he remembers that we are dust.
As for man, his days are as grass:
.....as a flower of the field, so he flourishes.
For the wind passes over it, and it is gone;
.....and the place thereof shall know it no more.
But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,
.....and his righteousness unto children's children

Thaddaeus
Dec 15th 2008, 07:04 AM
Jesus being God is not under the law or even the nature of sinful man

Ga 5:18 (http://bibleforums.org/ga+5:18)But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are NOT UNDER THE LAW.
many verses here we could use to prove point but it is late but here is the bulk, Jesus if he was 100% man and 100% God. then the God part brought Him always above the man part , for the spirit is willng but the flesh is weak but look Ro 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
then to say that we had one man that was perfect and knew no sin then we have a contradition in the Word, if the the law of man apllied to Jesus

2co 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He may have been made alittle lower than the Angels but He was still God while He was man and God can not sin.
Mr 2:5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.Mr 2:6But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,Mr 2:7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Mr 2:8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?Mr 2:9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?Mr 2:10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)Mr 2:11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.Mr 2:12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.


who can forgive sins but God only? Jesus was God

Look at this if He could have sinned being man than he would had to; for all have sinned . and if he would have sinned then we would be without the perfect Lamb, and there would be no hope.
yes He was made Flesh but that doesn't take away from Him being God, who could not sin. If He could have sinned as God, whom would he had to cover his sin and how would he be able to judge us. to say that he could have sin one must not believe that he was God or else it takes away from His deity, to say that God could sin.Now i am aware ofGa 4:4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

But being God He was also under the law of God which is spiritual
Ro 7:22 (http://bibleforums.org/ro+7:22)For I delight in the LAW OF GOD after the inward man:Ro 7:25 (http://bibleforums.org/ro+7:25)I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the LAW OF GOD; but with the flesh the law of sin.Ro 8:7 (http://bibleforums.org/ro+8:7)Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the LAW OF GOD, neither indeed can be.

Jesus was flesh but He was Spirit which when manifested will over rule the flesh.

tt1106
Dec 15th 2008, 08:53 PM
This seems rudimentary to me.
If God cannot change his nature, then how could part of his nature be allowed to change into something else.
Darkness cannot exist with the light. jesus cannot sin or else God would not be God.
He sent Jesus to bridge the gap between us and Him.

Bex4Jesus
Dec 15th 2008, 09:03 PM
Jesus can do anything. Simple as that to me! :P

Diolectic
Dec 15th 2008, 09:18 PM
Was it possible for Jesus to sin? Thoughts.........Yes, most definatly.
If not, He would not have been a perfect High Priest.

Jesus proved that mankind could do what HE did; accept that we could not ever redeem all mankind even if someone lived as He did.

Butch5
Dec 15th 2008, 09:36 PM
This seems rudimentary to me.
If God cannot change his nature, then how could part of his nature be allowed to change into something else.
Darkness cannot exist with the light. jesus cannot sin or else God would not be God.
He sent Jesus to bridge the gap between us and Him.

What is God's nature?

Diolectic
Dec 15th 2008, 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by tt1106
Jesus cannot sin or else God would not be God.
He sent Jesus to bridge the gap between us and Him
If Jesus couldn't sin:
he would not be a perfect High Priest.
He would not have been tempted.
He would not have been 100% human (also being 100% God)
His sacrifice would have been pointless...ect...

Thaddaeus
Dec 16th 2008, 05:06 AM
Jesus can do anything. Simple as that to me! :P

Tit 1:2 (http://bibleforums.org/tit+1:2)In hope of eternal life, which God, that CANNOT LIE, promised before the world began;
Ro 2:11 (http://bibleforums.org/ro+2:11)For there is no RESPECT OF PERSONS with God.

Jesus can't lie , he can't favor anyone more than anyone else it was in John's and only in John's writing that we find that john was calling himself the beloved disciple, in other words john felt that Jesus loved him more than anyone else,

Thaddaeus
Dec 16th 2008, 05:08 AM
[/i]
If Jesus couldn't sin:
he would not be a perfect High Priest.
He would not have been tempted.
He would not have been 100% human (also being 100% God)
His sacrifice would have been pointless...ect...


If He could have sinned then he was not God

brakelite
Dec 16th 2008, 08:39 PM
Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

It is very difficult to write upon this subject. One must be so careful when considering the human nature of Christ for we are treading upon holy ground.
So personal opinion must be set aside, and the scriptures only be used as our guide in this. The above 2 verses clearly indicate that Jesus was born of man in his fallen condition. I do not believe in the concept of original sin, therefore saying that Jesus was born of the fallen nature of man does not equate with any inherited sin or even the propensity to sin that we all are born with.
But Isaiah says He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth. Jesus , as the second Adam, went over the same ground as the first Adam. But where the first Adam failed, Jesus did not fail. Jesus showed us, that even in our fallen condition, it is possible to obey God. This gives us hope.
Satan however just loves to suggest that Jesus had some advantage over us therefore we cannot hope for righteousness. We cannot obey God. Therefore the laws of God, the Ten Commandments must be unfair , unjust, and arbitrarily harsh. Is this true? When Jesus said to people that they should go and sin no more, was He serious? Did He live the perfect life as our example? Can we look to Him for comfort and strength knowing that where we are He has already been? Is He now mediating in the heavenly sanctuary on our behalf, always ready to give us the help we need in our time of need because He understands what we are going through because He has gone through those very same trials, temptations, etc therefore can empathise with us?

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

holyrokker
Dec 17th 2008, 04:18 PM
Jesus had the physical ability to sin. That is not the same thing as saying He wanted to sin.

James 1:14-15 says "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." (ESV)

By the way - the NIV adds the word adjective "evil" to say "each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire..." But the word "evil" isn't in the Greek texts. The KJV translates it "lust", but that is also not in the Greek texts.

The word "desire" used in the Greek texts is epithymia which is generally translated as "desire, craving, longing"

It's the same word Jesus used in Luke 22:15 when He said, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;" (NKJV)

Were Jesus' desires sinful, or somehow evil? Or were they simply human desires that are part of the way God create humanity?

ross3421
Dec 19th 2008, 01:38 AM
Jesus had the physical ability to sin. That is not the same thing as saying He wanted to sin.

James 1:14-15 says "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." (ESV)

By the way - the NIV adds the word adjective "evil" to say "each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire..." But the word "evil" isn't in the Greek texts. The KJV translates it "lust", but that is also not in the Greek texts.

The word "desire" used in the Greek texts is epithymia which is generally translated as "desire, craving, longing"

It's the same word Jesus used in Luke 22:15 when He said, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;" (NKJV)

Were Jesus' desires sinful, or somehow evil? Or were they simply human desires that are part of the way God create humanity?

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

militarywife
Dec 19th 2008, 02:05 AM
I think it WAS possible because He WAS tempted, however, he chose not to.

reformedct
Dec 19th 2008, 02:13 AM
jesus was tempted

nothing can be tempted unless there is something that the temptation is tempting

jesus was tempted MANY MANY TIMES IN HIS FLESH BUT BY THE POWER OF GOD HE OVERCAME ALL SIN AND NEVER SINNED

jesus was fully God and fully man

as a man He experienced all the sinful effects of the fallen flesh. Our flesh is tainted by sin. Before Adam sinned our flesh didn't even deteriorate(Adam lived to be 900+ years old!)

if Adam had never sinned humans would not die

im sure jesus felt pain and experienced the occassional runny nose or somethin lol

but the point is he was fully man like we are men, but because he was also fully God he resisted all that temptation

God cannot sin, but man can. Jesus had the possiblity and potential to sin in the flesh but He didn't.

If you can't sin, you can't be tempted, because there is nothing to tempt.

thats why there is a verse that says God cannot be tempted

Romber
Dec 19th 2008, 12:01 PM
I think it WAS possible because He WAS tempted, however, he chose not to.


Yes, he was tempted many times. He was made just like a man, except he was God. In fact, I do believe it was required for Jesus to be tempted (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%202:18;&version=31;) to even die for us. (You will have to read the whole Chapter 2 to get the entire effect I think)

A question I have is do you think Jesus ever got annoyed/fed up with people he met who would just follow him around, or the fact that so many people always wanted to talk to him/touch him? It's not a sin to get annoyed a bit by people, but it doesn't seem very Christ like either, no matter how small he got annoyed by someone.

Samsheep2
Dec 19th 2008, 12:22 PM
Thoughts.........

Do you understand what this means: 'without sin'

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. He could have thrown a stone, but no stone was thrown?
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Jesus was born 'without' sin, lived 'without sin' but died 'for sin' so He could rise to save you from 'your sins'.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. When He comes back the second time it will not be as this world saw Him die with all their sin upon Him - since it (all sin) was taken care of they see Him 'without sin'.

Do you know of anyone born 'without' some part of the normal body. And if so are they still without it - sure they are and they always will be without it in this life. Oh, they may make a facsimile of it out of another material but it will not be the real thing and why; because they were made without it. Guess what Jesus (the man) was made without it (sin).

God bless,
Sam

Emanate
Dec 19th 2008, 05:02 PM
If He could have sinned then he was not God


If he could not sin, how did he take our place? If he could not sin, then he could not have been tempted.

ross3421
Dec 19th 2008, 09:53 PM
jesus was tempted

nothing can be tempted unless there is something that the temptation is tempting

jesus was tempted MANY MANY TIMES IN HIS FLESH BUT BY THE POWER OF GOD HE OVERCAME ALL SIN AND NEVER SINNED

jesus was fully God and fully man

as a man He experienced all the sinful effects of the fallen flesh. Our flesh is tainted by sin. Before Adam sinned our flesh didn't even deteriorate(Adam lived to be 900+ years old!)

if Adam had never sinned humans would not die

im sure jesus felt pain and experienced the occassional runny nose or somethin lol

but the point is he was fully man like we are men, but because he was also fully God he resisted all that temptation

God cannot sin, but man can. Jesus had the possiblity and potential to sin in the flesh but He didn't.

If you can't sin, you can't be tempted, because there is nothing to tempt.

thats why there is a verse that says God cannot be tempted

I agree (except for that he had the possibility to sin) he was tempted but it was impossible for him to fall. This is what the verse is telling us. He was tempted in the flesh but his flesh was not weak as ours. Why is his flesh not weak was it due to prayer, fasting, or the spirit? No for we have these devises but still fall.

He did not fall to temptation because he was God in human flesh and could not sin. He was not God because he did not sin rather he did not sin because he was God.

Mark

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 12:42 AM
Jesus had the physical ability to sin. That is not the same thing as saying He wanted to sin.

James 1:14-15 says "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." (ESV)

By the way - the NIV adds the word adjective "evil" to say "each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire..." But the word "evil" isn't in the Greek texts. The KJV translates it "lust", but that is also not in the Greek texts.

The word "desire" used in the Greek texts is epithymia which is generally translated as "desire, craving, longing"

It's the same word Jesus used in Luke 22:15 when He said, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;" (NKJV)

Were Jesus' desires sinful, or somehow evil? Or were they simply human desires that are part of the way God create humanity?

Surely you are not serious???

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 01:14 AM
I agree (except for that he had the possibility to sin) he was tempted but it was impossible for him to fall. This is what the verse is telling us. He was tempted in the flesh but his flesh was not weak as ours. Why is his flesh not weak was it due to prayer, fasting, or the spirit? No for we have these devises but still fall.

He did not fall to temptation because he was God in human flesh and could not sin. He was not God because he did not sin rather he did not sin because he was God. Mark

Mark, have you ever heard of the word 'impeccability' and if so do you believe it's meaning? Allow me to say this about our Prophet, Priest and coming King - Yet without sin. 1Pe 2:22: "Who did no sin." Isa 53:9: "He had done no violence, neither was there any deceit in his mouth." Heb 7:26: "Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners." The importance of this fact, that the great High Priest of the Christian profession was "without sin," the apostle illustrates at length in chapters 7 through 9. He here merely alludes to it, and says that one who was "without sin" was able to assist those who were sinners, and who put their trust in him. How could He do this if it were possible for a perfect sacrifice to sin? The bible tells us He was without spot!!! To be 'impeccable'
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Mark, Orthodox theologians all agree that Jesus Christ never committed sin. This seems to be a natural corollary to His deity and an absolute prerequisite to His work of substitution on the cross. Any affirmation of moral failure or even the possibility of such on the part of Christ requires a doctrine of His person which would deny in some sense His absolute deity.

The point of view that Christ could sin is designated by the term peccability, and the doctrine that Christ could not sin is referred to as the impeccability of Christ. Adherents of both views agree that Christ did not sin, but those who affirm peccability hold that He could have sinned, whereas those who declare the impeccability of Christ believe that He could not sin due to the presence of the divine nature.
The doctrine of impeccability has been questioned especially on the point of whether an impeccable person can be tempted in any proper sense. If Christ had a human nature which was subject to temptation, was this not in itself evidence that He could have sinned? No, not at all and this is why the bible states about all true born from above ones:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. When any of you 'peccabiler's' can explain this then I will listen to you as you blaspheme by saying the Son of God could have sin.

Am I mad, YEP! at the devil who hates the truth.

ross3421
Dec 20th 2008, 05:03 AM
Mark, have you ever heard of the word 'impeccability' and if so do you believe it's meaning? Allow me to say this about our Prophet, Priest and coming King - Yet without sin. 1Pe 2:22: "Who did no sin." Isa 53:9: "He had done no violence, neither was there any deceit in his mouth." Heb 7:26: "Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners." The importance of this fact, that the great High Priest of the Christian profession was "without sin," the apostle illustrates at length in chapters 7 through 9. He here merely alludes to it, and says that one who was "without sin" was able to assist those who were sinners, and who put their trust in him. How could He do this if it were possible for a perfect sacrifice to sin? The bible tells us He was without spot!!! To be 'impeccable'
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Mark, Orthodox theologians all agree that Jesus Christ never committed sin. This seems to be a natural corollary to His deity and an absolute prerequisite to His work of substitution on the cross. Any affirmation of moral failure or even the possibility of such on the part of Christ requires a doctrine of His person which would deny in some sense His absolute deity.

The point of view that Christ could sin is designated by the term peccability, and the doctrine that Christ could not sin is referred to as the impeccability of Christ. Adherents of both views agree that Christ did not sin, but those who affirm peccability hold that He could have sinned, whereas those who declare the impeccability of Christ believe that He could not sin due to the presence of the divine nature.
The doctrine of impeccability has been questioned especially on the point of whether an impeccable person can be tempted in any proper sense. If Christ had a human nature which was subject to temptation, was this not in itself evidence that He could have sinned? No, not at all and this is why the bible states about all true born from above ones:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. When any of you 'peccabiler's' can explain this then I will listen to you as you blaspheme by saying the Son of God could have sin.

Am I mad, YEP! at the devil who hates the truth.

Very Good...... take a look back on my previous posts on this thread. Thanks again for your detail which was enlightning.


Mark

SIG
Dec 20th 2008, 05:21 AM
What we are really trying to understand is how Jesus could be both fully God and fully man with no separation of the two.

Good luck with that...

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 03:04 PM
I ask this question not seeking the answer but hoping to arrest the attention of that one that could easily be deceived into thinking that He could have as many in here tell me they believe.

I realize this is already being discussed but thought why not address it as such;...

Thanks, Sam

VerticalReality
Dec 20th 2008, 03:07 PM
If you are not seeking an answer then it would probably save a lot of time if you would go ahead and state the reason why you believe what you do. Then others can join into the conversation and state why they agree or disagree with you.

This, being Bible Chat, is not so much a platform for preaching than it is a means of opening up dialogue and discussion amongst believers.

So, with that in mind, what is your position here?

Joe King
Dec 20th 2008, 05:56 PM
If he wasn't able to sin, the devil wouldn't have been able to tempt him.

theBelovedDisciple
Dec 20th 2008, 06:18 PM
I ask this question not seeking the answer but hoping to arrest the attention of that one that could easily be deceived into thinking that He could have as many in here tell me they believe.

I realize this is already being discussed but thought why not address it as such;...

Thanks, Sam
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sam,

I believe He was tempted on many occasions.. The Gospels record His temptation in the desert after the Baptism by John.... it also states that after he (the devil) had finished his temptations he left Him(Jesus) for a season... It doesnt state that the devil was finished with Jesus .. as far as temptations... it states he left Him for a season.. that word 'season' can be translated in different ways but when looked at it generally means a 'measure of time'... Obviously when Jesus and the devil came face to face.. it wasn't to carry on a 'casual' conversation... He was either quoting Scripture at Him to make Him flee or He/ and his disciples were 'casting' him/his devils out of people. Taking authority over these wicked spirits proving the Kingdom of Heaven was 'at hand'.. as even the evil spirits 'obey' Him and His Word...

He was temepted in every possible way His 'brethern' were tempted.. yet without sin... He even 'strived' unto 'blood' meaning the beating and crucifixtion He took.. He took it.. because He was called to to that..Thats why He was sent... He never lifted His Voice in oppostition... He never sinned...

If you look at the Pharisees as they were standing there when He was hanging on that bloody tree..

they railed on Him... 'if thou art the Christ... come down from there .. save yourself' if thou art the 'chosen' of God.... Jesus could of saved Himself from the Cross.. called in legions of Angels to help Him.. but He didn't.. He was obedient to His Father's will... even unto Death..

Those Pharisee's tempted Him to come down.. off that cross.. but do you really think it was the Pharisees speaking to Him.. these wicked men who were driven and under the influence of their father, the devil.. so you can see thru the Gospels.. that He was tempted quite often...

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 06:44 PM
If you are not seeking an answer then it would probably save a lot of time if you would go ahead and state the reason why you believe what you do. Then others can join into the conversation and state why they agree or disagree with you. No I'm not, when one is settled on any one thing then an answer was not the intention and since the subject matter of this happens to be floating around already we are simply approaching it in this manner.


So, with that in mind, what is your position here? Since I asked a question as the title indicates (Were the Temptations of Christ Real?) Therefore since you care not to answer and maybe what you said was as a 'host' I honestly don't know? - but I will answer your question with this as a start:

If the temptation of an impeccable person be considered possible, can it be said of Christ that His temptations were real? If there were no corresponding nature within to respond to sin, is it true that the temptation is real?

Brother Mark
Dec 20th 2008, 06:48 PM
He could just as easily of sinned as did Adam. Man doesn't need a sin nature to sin. Adam proved that once and for all.

VerticalReality
Dec 20th 2008, 06:51 PM
He could just as easily of sinned as did Adam. Man doesn't need a sin nature to sin. Adam proved that once and for all.

Gotta agree with Mark on this one.

Samsheep . . . what do you think was the purpose of Jesus being tempted? What was the point of it taking place to begin with?

divaD
Dec 20th 2008, 06:58 PM
He could just as easily of sinned as did Adam. Man doesn't need a sin nature to sin. Adam proved that once and for all.



I fully agree with these conclusions. Even tho some believe and teach that God created Adam with a sin nature, there is absolutely no truth to that whatsoever. Yet Adam did sin. But not because he was created to sin. He sinned because he chose to sin. Jesus didn't sin, because He chose not to sin, and not because He couldn't sin.

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 07:02 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sam,

I believe He was tempted on many occasions.. The Gospels record His temptation in the desert after the Baptism by John.... it also states that after he (the devil) had finished his temptations he left Him(Jesus) for a season... It doesnt state that the devil was finished with Jesus .. as far as temptations... it states he left Him for a season.. that word 'season' can be translated in different ways but when looked at it generally means a 'measure of time'... Obviously when Jesus and the devil came face to face.. it wasn't to carry on a 'casual' conversation... He was either quoting Scripture at Him to make Him flee or He/ and his disciples were 'casting' him/his devils out of people. Taking authority over these wicked spirits proving the Kingdom of Heaven was 'at hand'.. as even the evil spirits 'obey' Him and His Word... Thanks, and I appreciate your response to what I hope was not considered a loaded question. And of course we respond thus far with a couple of questions to you:
If the temptation of an impeccable person be considered possible, can it be said of Christ that His temptations were real? If there were no corresponding nature within to respond to sin, is it true that the temptation is real?


He was temepted in every possible way His 'brethern' were tempted.. yet without sin... He even 'strived' unto 'blood' meaning the beating and crucifixtion He took.. He took it.. because He was called to to that..Thats why He was sent... He never lifted His Voice in oppostition... He never sinned...If you look at the Pharisees as they were standing there when He was hanging on that bloody tree..they railed on Him... 'if thou art the Christ... come down from there .. save yourself' if thou art the 'chosen' of God.... Jesus could of saved Himself from the Cross.. called in legions of Angels to help Him.. but He didn't.. He was obedient to His Father's will... even unto Death.. I agree in part and use the Apostle Paul as a witness of one of the brethren - but never did the son of man who was also the son of God have to wrestle with the two natures as Paul in Romans 7. The forty days in the wilderness at the close of which He was tempted marks a trial to which, no other human frame has ever been subjected. The temptation to turn stones into bread was all the more real because Christ had the power to do it. The temptation to make a public display of God’s preservation of Christ by casting Himself from the temple was also most real. No other has ever been offered all the glory of the world by Satan, but Christ was so tempted, and did not sin. While, on the one hand, it is true that Christ did not experience the temptations arising in a sin nature, on the other hand, He was tried as no other was ever tried. Added to the nature of the temptation itself was the greater sensitivity of Christ. His body being without sin was far more sensitive to hunger and abuse than that of other men. Yet, in full experience of these longings, Christ was completely in control of Himself.

The final test of the reality of His temptations is found in the revelation of His struggle in Gethsemane and His death on the cross. No other could know the temptation of a holy person to avoid becoming the judgment for the sin of the world. This was Christ’s greatest temptation, as evidenced in the character of His struggle and submission. On the cross the same temptation is evident in the taunt of His enemies to come down from the cross. Christ willingly continued in suffering and of His own will dismissed His spirit when the proper time came. No greater realm of temptation could be imagined. While Christ’s temptations, therefore, are not always exactly parallel to our own, He was tried in every part of His being even as we are tried, and we can come to Him as our High Priest with the assurance that He fully understands the power of temptation and sin, having met it in His life and death (Heb 4:15). The temptations of Christ, therefore, possess a stark reality without for a moment detracting from His impeccability. He was still GOD through it all.


Those Pharisee's tempted Him to come down.. off that cross.. but do you really think it was the Pharisees speaking to Him.. these wicked men who were driven and under the influence of their father, the devil.. so you can see thru the Gospels.. that He was tempted quite often... No disagreement at all with how you state this and if you read my remarks you should agree with the higher rating of 'temptation' and what it was intendd for the Son of God.

God bless,

Bethany67
Dec 20th 2008, 07:06 PM
His body being without sin was far more sensitive to hunger and abuse than that of other men.

Do you see scriptural support for that, Sam?

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 07:08 PM
He could just as easily of sinned as did Adam. Man doesn't need a sin nature to sin. Adam proved that once and for all.
Mark, are you saying He (Jesus) God manifested in the flesh could have sinned easily??? WOW!!! Adam was not deceived as Eve but we do know why he sinned - so you compare his sin to be equivalent to the 'All Mighty God'?

Mark, I agree (original) man doesn't need a sin nature to sin, but if what you say is true and God could have sinned then what would keep Him from sinning now? You know...you do believe He is the same yesterday, today and for ever right - I look forward to your answers.

God bless,
Sam

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 07:11 PM
Samsheep . . . what do you think was the purpose of Jesus being tempted? What was the point of it taking place to begin with? I point you to post #8 where the major part of your qiestions has already been dealt with to an extent.

Samsheep2
Dec 20th 2008, 07:23 PM
Do you see scriptural support for that, Sam? Do 'I see' scriptural support - yes, I do and of course this would take a lot of digging which at the moment i have not the time - allow me to give you a few passages for your own consideration for now.
Hebrews 5:7-9 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; just one thought for now, to be able to take upon himself 'all' the sin of the world then does it not stand to reason that the other is not also true?

Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Imagine the type of hunger this was afterward as Luke says - of course there was a hunger during the 40 days and nights but the 'afterward' hunger was more intent. The average one woul have beendifferent but not God.

Thanks, Sam

Brother Mark
Dec 20th 2008, 08:01 PM
Mark, are you saying He (Jesus) God manifested in the flesh could have sinned easily??? WOW!!! Adam was not deceived as Eve but we do know why he sinned - so you compare his sin to be equivalent to the 'All Mighty God'?

Mark, I agree (original) man doesn't need a sin nature to sin, but if what you say is true and God could have sinned then what would keep Him from sinning now? You know...you do believe He is the same yesterday, today and for ever right - I look forward to your answers.

God bless,
Sam

What will keep you from sinning in heaven Sam? You have the ability to sin now. Will you have the ability to sin then?

VerticalReality
Dec 20th 2008, 08:16 PM
I point you to post #8 where the major part of your qiestions has already been dealt with to an extent.

I'm sorry, I could be missing it . . .

However, I didn't see anything in post #8 that addressed what the purpose of Jesus' temptation was. Why did His temptation in the wilderness need to take place? What was the point of it?

Bethany67
Dec 20th 2008, 08:53 PM
Do 'I see' scriptural support - yes, I do and of course this would take a lot of digging which at the moment i have not the time - allow me to give you a few passages for your own consideration for now.
Hebrews 5:7-9 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; just one thought for now, to be able to take upon himself 'all' the sin of the world then does it not stand to reason that the other is not also true?

Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Imagine the type of hunger this was afterward as Luke says - of course there was a hunger during the 40 days and nights but the 'afterward' hunger was more intent. The average one woul have beendifferent but not God.

Thanks, Sam

No I'm not getting it, I'm afraid; I don't see anything in Heb 5 about His sinless body which makes Him more sensitive to hunger and abuse than your average human. I read in my Bible that He was like us in every way but did not sin - Heb 2:17.

The Luke 4:2 passage is talking about his state of hunger after 40 days/nights of fasting during which Satan tempted Him and at the end when Satan appeared for a final onslaught with the 3 specific temptations. Of course He was hungrier at the end of the 40 days than at the beginning of them. I don't understand your final sentence?

threebigrocks
Dec 20th 2008, 09:43 PM
Do 'I see' scriptural support - yes, I do and of course this would take a lot of digging which at the moment i have not the time - allow me to give you a few passages for your own consideration for now.
Hebrews 5:7-9 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; just one thought for now, to be able to take upon himself 'all' the sin of the world then does it not stand to reason that the other is not also true?

Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Imagine the type of hunger this was afterward as Luke says - of course there was a hunger during the 40 days and nights but the 'afterward' hunger was more intent. The average one woul have beendifferent but not God.

Thanks, Sam

Deuteronomy 8
3"He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.

John 6
"Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.'" 32Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
33"For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."





48"I am the bread of life.
49"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
50"This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
51"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"
53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.
56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.
58"This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."



Christ relied on His Father. He made certain that He lived according to the Spirit and not the flesh. Christ was the Living Word, and He Himself was sustained because of His very nature which is divine.


It's not just a physical hunger, or being strong enough to resist temptation. Christ was fully God and fully man. He lived fully as a man - but also fully spiritually as the never changing, constant and perfect God.



He is our example of how to go through the Bread of Life for our daily physical bread.

ross3421
Dec 21st 2008, 05:00 AM
If he wasn't able to sin, the devil wouldn't have been able to tempt him.

I guess the devil thought he could win against him at battle also????

I would question if Satan really thought he could tempt Jesus and suceed but he tried anyway. Though Satan tempted him does not mean Jesus could sin.

Joe King
Dec 21st 2008, 06:22 AM
I guess the devil thought he could win against him at battle also????

I would question if Satan really thought he could tempt Jesus and suceed but he tried anyway. Though Satan tempted him does not mean Jesus could sin.

Then Jesus wasn't really human.