PDA

View Full Version : Where are we now?



mfowler12
Dec 18th 2008, 03:02 PM
In another installment of my "where are we now" threads (part 2 for those that haven't read my other thread). I have a question for those that hold the viewpoint that we are currently in the seals/trumpets/bowls.

Where are we at, in your opinion and biblical reference, now in this process?

I've been reading through the bible and have seen something that catches my attention to this viewpoint and would like to compare your scriptures/opinions with what I've just read. :)

David Taylor
Dec 18th 2008, 03:05 PM
I believe we are in seal 5.

I don't believe the trumpets or vials have begun yet.

I believe the seals, trumpets, and vials all end together....(although they aren't a strick 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3 unfolding)...and that ending is the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ....His Revelation; for which the book is named and focused on.

mfowler12
Dec 18th 2008, 03:10 PM
I believe we are in seal 5.

I don't believe the trumpets or vials have begun yet.

I believe the seals, trumpets, and vials all end together....(although they aren't a strick 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3 unfolding)...and that ending is the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ....His Revelation; for which the book is named and focused on.

What about Revelation 8:1-2?

1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

How does that fit in with your opinion?

David Taylor
Dec 18th 2008, 08:14 PM
What about Revelation 8:1-2?

1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

How does that fit in with your opinion?

The 7th seal shows everthing is over. Christ's coming was described in the prior Seal 6.

Verse 8:2 starts another vision, with different details and different events that weren't described within the seals.

deepgreenlawn
Dec 18th 2008, 09:03 PM
I personally don't believe that we have started the tribulation yet. I feel there is still some more items that need to fall in place before it starts, OR for us to know that we are in the era. The thing that I keep thinking is that it all will happen very quickly. You have to remember that it will only last 7 years. The time of peace, when I believe the things such as the one currency, one govt, and the anti-christ will come together will happen in a span of about 3 1/2 years. That is a lot of stuff to happen in a relatively short amount of time.

I am thinking that when we are in the end times it will be pretty clear as these events will happen and it will be very obvious. I also believe that things are definitely falling into place for all of these to happen. There are implants being used that could easily be "the mark" (similar to putting the gps(?) in dogs). The economy is shot not only in the US but all over the world that I believe that will open the door for a single currency, which is already in place but not widely used (the Euro). Then after that I see a one gov't, which I believe can happen after everyone is hurting bad enough, happening not too far after the one currency.

The bible talks about all the "big boys" in the East but doesn't mention the US it seems. I have always wandered how the US, as big as we are, could be missed... well, with our economy, it is very obvious and apparent that we are extremely vulnerable and it is not looking good at all. We are down and I believe that everyone else is probably going to start kicking us as soon as they feel safe.

My thoughts, just thought I would throw them in there... interested to hear why everyone believes we are already in the end times and what they have to back it up.

Cyberseeker
Dec 18th 2008, 09:21 PM
I believe we are in seal 5.

I don't believe the trumpets or vials have begun yet.

I believe the seals, trumpets, and vials all end together....(although they aren't a strick 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3 unfolding)...and that ending is the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ....His Revelation; for which the book is named and focused on.

Amen David, though Im inclined to think we are at seal 4 with seal 5 just round the corner.


What about Revelation 8:1-2?

1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

How does that fit in with your opinion?

The 7th seal IS the trumpets. The half-hour silence is the angels gob-smacked shock :o as they just saw the stars falling and are anticipating whats coming next.

David Taylor
Dec 18th 2008, 09:25 PM
I personally don't believe that we have started the tribulation yet. I feel there is still some more items that need to fall in place before it starts, OR for us to know that we are in the era. The thing that I keep thinking is that it all will happen very quickly. You have to remember that it will only last 7 years.


Nothing in the New Testament mentions a 7 year time-period for anything.
Nothing in the New Testamentt mentions a tribulation-period with a set range or duration.

I believe that the verse in Daniel 9:27 that some interpret to mean a final 7-year period, is better understood in the context of where it is given; in the 490 years between the return from Babylonian Exile and the Death of Jesus Christ to initiate the Covenant with the many to take away sin, and to end the abominable sacrifice and offering system from the OT, but offering His own body.





The bible talks about all the "big boys" in the East but doesn't mention the US it seems.

When the Bible was written, the US didnt' exist, it was a land of unknown indians hunting and gathering for food; that the Eur-Asians and Africans knew nothing about. Not surprising they weren't written about.

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 03:04 AM
What about Revelation 8:1-2?

1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour..

How does that fit in with your opinion?

Well, obviously its proof there are no women in heaven.:P:spin::rofl:

OK, so it wasn't that funny. :hmm:

JesusMySavior
Dec 19th 2008, 03:42 AM
Nothing in the New Testament mentions a 7 year time-period for anything.
Nothing in the New Testamentt mentions a tribulation-period with a set range or duration.

I believe that the verse in Daniel 9:27 that some interpret to mean a final 7-year period, is better understood in the context of where it is given; in the 490 years between the return from Babylonian Exile and the Death of Jesus Christ to initiate the Covenant with the many to take away sin, and to end the abominable sacrifice and offering system from the OT, but offering His own body.





When the Bible was written, the US didnt' exist, it was a land of unknown indians hunting and gathering for food; that the Eur-Asians and Africans knew nothing about. Not surprising they weren't written about.


I disagree with the first part. Christ certainly wasn't an "abomination of desolation".

The second part I will say that if the United States was an integral part of the scriptures of Revelation, it would be included, regardless if it existed then or not. Seeing as how close we are to the final prophecies of the OT and the NT with Jesus' near return, and how powerful the United States has been for the past couple of centuries, I find it odd that it is not included. That tells me that either a) the United States will not play an important part in the final battles with Israel and last years before Christ's return, or b) America simply won't exist.

With the way things are going now, with us pressuring Israel to split Jerusalem in two, and how "involved" we are with the world's economics and crises, I think choice b is the more plausible option. Strap on your helmets, lads! :)

JesusMySavior
Dec 19th 2008, 03:46 AM
Well, obviously its proof there are no women in heaven.:P:spin::rofl:

OK, so it wasn't that funny. :hmm:


I chuckled.

Women are great gifts from God though. ;)

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 03:46 AM
.

I believe that the verse in Daniel 9:27 that some interpret to mean a final 7-year period, is better understood in the context of where it is given; in the 490 years between the return from Babylonian Exile and the Death of Jesus Christ to initiate the Covenant with the many to take away sin, and to end the abominable sacrifice and offering system from the OT, but offering His own body.




Really? You actually believe that the OT sacrifice was the Abomination that makes desolate? :eek: That is quite impossible...
If so why did Jesus refer to the abomination when explaining the events just before his 2nd return (in Mathew 24:15-25) ??
Please read again these words of Jesus Himself:

"WHEN ye shall therefore see the abomination of desloation (spoken of by Daniel the prophet) .....then let them in Judea flee...etc....
...for THEN shall be such GREAT TRIBULATION such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor shall EVER be...and except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..."

Has that happened on planet earth yet?
Obviously NOT .

AND then Jesus says... the following (vs. 29) "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.....there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven....and they shall see Son of Man coming in the Clouds of heaven ...(IOW, Christ's Glorious 2nd return).

Has that happened yet?
Obviously NOT.

Therefore the abomination of desolation has NOT occurred yet.

Jesus himself linked the Abomination of Desolation to both the beginning of the Great Trib. and to His IMMEDIATE return AFTER it occurred.

Faithful 1 ;)

bennie
Dec 19th 2008, 03:53 AM
Really? You actually believe that the OT sacrifice was the Abomination that makes desolate? :eek: That is quite impossible...
If so why did Jesus refer to the abomination when explaining the events just before his 2nd return (in Mathew 24:15-25) ??
Please read again these words of Jesus Himself:

"WHEN ye shall therefore see the abomination of desloation (spoken of by Daniel the prophet) .....then let them in Judea flee...etc....
...for THEN shall be such GREAT TRIBULATION such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor shall EVER be...and except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..."

Has that happened on planet earth yet?
Obviously NOT .

AND then Jesus says... the following (vs. 29) "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.....there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven....and they shall see Son of Man coming in the Clouds of heaven ...(IOW, Christ's Glorious 2nd return).

Has that happened yet?
Obviously NOT.

Therefore the abomination of desolation has NOT occurred yet.

Jesus himself linked the Abomination of Desolation to both the beginning of the Great Trib. and to His IMMEDIATE return AFTER it occurred.

Faithful 1 ;)


luke 21 tells the same story, but a little different.

What do you think is the reason for the arbitrary 2000 years between the 69th week and the 70 th week??


bennie

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 03:58 AM
luke 21 tells the same story, but a little different.

What do you think is the reason for the arbitrary 2000 years between the 69th week and the 70 th week??


bennie

" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing for any to perish , but that all should come to repentance" 2 Pet.3:9

Good question....I don't have all the answers.
However, our ignorance of His complete reasoning for delay doesn't mean it is arbitrary.

It may be he is not entirely ready to destroy the earth yet or possible the 'cup of iniquity' has not yet been made full.

Faithful 1

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 04:06 AM
Women are great gifts from God though. ;)

Thnx; I agree; apparently i 'ran over' your post to David Taylor...but I think we both had the same idea about it.

p.s. That's a mean looking avatar - Luke Skywalker Cat.:D

F-1

bennie
Dec 19th 2008, 04:08 AM
" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing for any to perish , but that all should come to repentance" 2 Pet.3:9

Good question.
However, our ignorance of His complete reasoning for delay doesn't mean it is arbitrary.

Faithful 1


how do a person end time then. time is a continium. it never stops.
when monday ends at 12:00pm , theusday starts. it is not possible to stop it. does that make sence.
God told them " 70 weeks are decreed..."
Parapharsing here. God said " Listen, o Israel. You have 70 weeks, 490 years, to stop your nonsence. I will send My Holy Son. He will live among you. Accept Him. He IS the ultimate sacrifice."


bennie

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 04:19 AM
how do a person end time then. time is a continium. it never stops.
when monday ends at 12:00pm , theusday starts. it is not possible to stop it. does that make sence.
God told them " 70 weeks are decreed..."
Parapharsing here. God said " Listen, o Israel. You have 70 weeks, 490 years, to stop your nonsence. I will send My Holy Son. He will live among you. Accept Him. He IS the ultimate sacrifice."


bennie

Bennie...
If you are referring to Daniel 9:24 thru 27, ...that is a tough passage ....
I notice you didn't quote the ENTIRE passage....for it does SPLIT up the time period....

"And after three score and two weeks the Messiah shall be cut off.....and the prince shall come and destroy the city and the sanctuary" (that happened) ...
..."and he shall confirm the covenent with many for one week".

I take that to possibly mean Christ shall confirm the NEW Covenent with the Jews for a seperate period of 7 years.

Gods Child
Dec 19th 2008, 04:27 AM
I don't know if you have heard of Irvin Baxter. He has a radio program and a website at endtime.com

He believes that we are in the 6th trumpet era. Sixth trump=The war that starts in the area of the Euphrates River. The Euphrates River runs through Iraq.
He believes that the 1st-5th trumpet have already blown and they were WWI, WWII, Chernobyl, time speeds up, Desert storm war and the Iraq war that we are in now is the 6th trumpet. The evidence he gives in his 7th Trumpet video is impelling.


TRUMPETS
First - Rev. 8:7 Hail and fire mingled with blood, cast upon the earth. One third of trees burned up, all green grass burned up.
Second - Rev. 8:8-9 Great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea: one third of the sea becomes blood; one third of sea creatures die; one third of ships destroyed.
Third -Rev. 8:10-11 A star called "Wormwood" falls from heaven. One third of waters become bitter. Many people die because of the water.
Fourth - Rev. 8:12 One third of the sun, moon, and stars smitten and darkened.
Fifth - Rev. 9:1-12 Star falls from heaven. Bottomless pit opened. Smoke from pit darkens the sun. Locusts torment men five months.
Sixth - Rev. 9:13-21 Four angels loosed in the area of the Euphrates River. An army of 200 million horsemen kills one third of mankind.
Seventh- Rev. 11:15-19 "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ."

bennie
Dec 19th 2008, 04:29 AM
Bennie...
If you are referring to Daniel 9:24 thru 27, ...that is a tough passage ....
I notice you didn't quote the ENTIRE passage....for it does SPLIT up the time period....

"And after three score and two weeks the Messiah shall be cut off.....and the prince shall come and destroy the city and the sanctuary" (that happened) ...
..."and he shall confirm the covenent with many for one week".

I take that to possibly mean Christ shall confirm the NEW Covenent with the Jews for a seperate period of 7 years.



24 "Seventy 'sevens' [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013a)] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013b)] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013c)] 25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree [d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22014d)] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, [e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22014e)] the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. [f (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22015f)] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [g (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22016g)] In the middle of the 'seven' [h (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22016h)] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him

There is the main summery of the passage. 70 weeks . 70 weeks to get all those specification done.

Jesus made a end to sacrifice and offering. 1978 years ago.

bennie

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 04:42 AM
24 "Seventy 'sevens' [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013a)] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013b)] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013c)] 25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree [d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22014d)] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, [e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22014e)] the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. [f (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22015f)] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [g (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22016g)] In the middle of the 'seven' [h (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22016h)] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him

There is the main summery of the passage. 70 weeks . 70 weeks to get all those specification done.

Jesus made a end to sacrifice and offering. 1978 years ago.

bennie

True....but you are confirming what I said before....that the time period IS SPLIT UP....(in answer to your 1st question).

And of course, Christ did put an end to the need for sacrifice and oblation....at his death on Calvary.

However, I am not sure about the translation you are using (about its accuracy) since it is different from the King James Version....especially the part about an abomination being 'set up in the wing of the temple', etc.

Which translation are you using?...and I would have to get the Greek interlinear to verify since YOUR translation carries a different meaning than KJV.....as of yet I haven't gone that in depth to clarify ....

F-1

bennie
Dec 19th 2008, 04:49 AM
True....but you are confirming what I said that the time period IS SPLIT UP....(in answer to your 1st question).

And of course, Christ did put an end to the need for sacrifice and oblation....at his death on Calvary.

However, I am not sure about the translation you are using (about its accuracy) since it is different from the King James Version....especially the part about an abomination being 'set up in the wing of the temple', etc.

Which translation are you using?...and I would have to get the Greek interlinear to verify since YOUR translation carries a different meaning than KJV.....as of yet I haven't gone that in depth to clarify ....

F-1

sorry, i always forget to put the translation. i used the NIV.

How did i confirm that the time is split up? it says: 70 weeks. Not 69 and then 2000 years later 1 week?

bennie

bennie
Dec 19th 2008, 04:54 AM
F-1

have to hit the hay mate. will get back to you tommorow night after work. If the weather allows me to go to work :cool:

bennie

JesusMySavior
Dec 19th 2008, 02:35 PM
F-1

have to hit the hay mate. will get back to you tommorow night after work. If the weather allows me to go to work :cool:

bennie


Lord protect bennie so he can get to work on time. Thank you Lord, in Jesus' Name, Amen.

Faithful 1
Dec 19th 2008, 03:43 PM
24 "Seventy 'sevens' [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013a)] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan9:23-29;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22013b)] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

sorry, i always forget to put the translation. i used the NIV.

How did i confirm that the time is split up? it says: 70 weeks. Not 69 and then 2000 years later 1 week?

bennie

Oh, OK, I see now where you are having a problem. You think that just because the prophecy is all WRITTEN together in one sentence then it must TAKE place continuously. However, that is not true in prophecy.
In fact, that is the very reason the succeeding verses in Daniel are given - to let us know that it DOES NOT take place in continuous historical succession.

Many times we see this in prophecy...IOW, written as one statement, but its fulfillment occurs in very disjointed time periods.

For example, the prophecy of Christ's ministry in Isaiah:

" The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because He has annoited me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captive, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God..." Isa.61:1

But when Jesus read the Scripture (to proclaim the beginning of his ministry in Luke 4:18), he STOPPED just after "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord"...and he LEFT OUT "the day of vengenance of our God".

Do you think he knew something we didn't ?....of course!; he was saying that in this tour of duty he was not going to proclaim the day of vengeance of God....(Don't worry He will, eventually:D.)

Dang Jesus! you really busted up that prophecy....don't you know it is written as one continuous prophecy and you are suppose to fulfill it ALL in one continuous chain of events?:eek: NOT!

So, you see Bennie, it is fairly common in prophecy to blend the whole prophecy together when in reality it may occur in two separate events disconnected by thousands of years.

Daniels FIRST statement is exactly that...the "to seal up the vision and prophecy" part, for example, HAS YET TO OCCUR, (obviously we still have unfulfilled prophecies of Christ's 2nd coming).
The first Daniel statement (given above) is simply an OVERVIEW of the entire thing. And THEN he begins to dissect it into various "weeks" of years...exactly so you WILL NOT think the 70 weeks will be contiguous.

There is no "time" limit to Christ....He can (and does) come IN and go OUT of history as he pleases....until ALL is fulfilled.:cool: I'm sure you can see that.

The Pharisees couldn't...that's why they missed the Messiah.....they only saw the prophecies of his Kingship....and not the ones of suffering servant...because they thought it all must be contiguous in history.


BTW, I don't trust NIV at all, especially because of all the blantant differences & conflicts with respect to KJV in MANY places, not the least of which are the ones here in Daniel.

However, thank you for pointing it out ...it will surely motivate me to go in depth and use the greek when I have the chance....it may be some time.

God bless you....nice talking with you ...hope you got enough sleep to go out and shovel the drive.:D

Faithful :wave:

bennie
Dec 21st 2008, 11:59 PM
Oh, OK, I see now where you are having a problem. You think that just because the prophecy is all WRITTEN together in one sentence then it must TAKE place continuously. However, that is not true in prophecy.
In fact, that is the very reason the succeeding verses in Daniel are given - to let us know that it DOES NOT take place in continuous historical succession.

Many times we see this in prophecy...IOW, written as one statement, but its fulfillment occurs in very disjointed time periods.

For example, the prophecy of Christ's ministry in Isaiah:

" The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because He has annoited me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captive, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God..." Isa.61:1

But when Jesus read the Scripture (to proclaim the beginning of his ministry in Luke 4:18), he STOPPED just after "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord"...and he LEFT OUT "the day of vengenance of our God".

Do you think he knew something we didn't ?....of course!; he was saying that in this tour of duty he was not going to proclaim the day of vengeance of God....(Don't worry He will, eventually:D.)

Dang Jesus! you really busted up that prophecy....don't you know it is written as one continuous prophecy and you are suppose to fulfill it ALL in one continuous chain of events?:eek: NOT!

So, you see Bennie, it is fairly common in prophecy to blend the whole prophecy together when in reality it may occur in two separate events disconnected by thousands of years.

Daniels FIRST statement is exactly that...the "to seal up the vision and prophecy" part, for example, HAS YET TO OCCUR, (obviously we still have unfulfilled prophecies of Christ's 2nd coming).
The first Daniel statement (given above) is simply an OVERVIEW of the entire thing. And THEN he begins to dissect it into various "weeks" of years...exactly so you WILL NOT think the 70 weeks will be contiguous.

There is no "time" limit to Christ....He can (and does) come IN and go OUT of history as he pleases....until ALL is fulfilled.:cool: I'm sure you can see that.

The Pharisees couldn't...that's why they missed the Messiah.....they only saw the prophecies of his Kingship....and not the ones of suffering servant...because they thought it all must be contiguous in history.


BTW, I don't trust NIV at all, especially because of all the blantant differences & conflicts with respect to KJV in MANY places, not the least of which are the ones here in Daniel.

However, thank you for pointing it out ...it will surely motivate me to go in depth and use the greek when I have the chance....it may be some time.

God bless you....nice talking with you ...hope you got enough sleep to go out and shovel the drive.:D

Faithful :wave:

Hi F1
I think we both agree that the 70 weeks in daniel 9 are 70 weeks of years. otherwords 490 years.

The greek word for decree is:
H2852
חתך
châthak
khaw-thak'
A primitive root; properly to cut off, that is, (figuratively) to decree: - determine.
To cut off. Now the question comes up: From what was it cut off? When we meander back to daniel 8, we will see a prophecy with a time period in it.

Dal8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


Now i beliefe the 2300 evenings and mornings spoken of in dan8 is to be 2300 years. You see a day for
a year prophecy is at work here. The Jubilee calendar is at work.
The 70 weeks (490 years) is cut of from the 2300 hundred years. That is the only time period it can be cut off from.
Now to seperate the 69th week with the 70th week is going to give us a mathematical consternation, you see.

You are right, God Almighty is not bound by time. But we are. And He has set a time frame for us. For sin.
That time will run out, and we will be judged.
bennie

JaneA
Dec 22nd 2008, 10:46 PM
:pp I think we are between the third and fourth seal. The fifth seal is Christians being killed for serving Christ and not receiving the mark of the beast. We obviously haven't arrived there yet! Still I'm not sure how all the seal, trumpets, and vials fit together? I agree about the Wormwood probably being the Chernobyl accident.:hmm:

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 28th 2008, 10:17 AM
how do a person end time then. time is a continium. it never stops.
when monday ends at 12:00pm , theusday starts. it is not possible to stop it. does that make sence.
God told them " 70 weeks are decreed..."
Parapharsing here. God said " Listen, o Israel. You have 70 weeks, 490 years, to stop your nonsence. I will send My Holy Son. He will live among you. Accept Him. He IS the ultimate sacrifice."


bennie


Hi Bennie, A day ends at sundown as Christ observed. Time is governed by matter travelling through space such as the Earth travels around the sun in 365.25 days or when it spins which is measured as a day.
God stopped time when He stopped the rotation of the Earth.

2 Kings 20: 10. And Hezekiah answered, “It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees.” 11So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the Lord, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.

Thus the day was lengthened, time was slowed down by about 40 minutes.



:hmm:

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 28th 2008, 11:34 AM
In another installment of my "where are we now" threads (part 2 for those that haven't read my other thread). I have a question for those that hold the viewpoint that we are currently in the seals/trumpets/bowls.

Where are we at, in your opinion and biblical reference, now in this process?

I've been reading through the bible and have seen something that catches my attention to this viewpoint and would like to compare your scriptures/opinions with what I've just read. :)


Daniel listens to a conversation which tells of the span of the vision, the word “Sacrifice” was added to verses 11, 12, 13 of Dan 8: and is not within the Ancient Sea Scrolls where Daniel writings were found thus the word “Sacrifice” is in italics in the King James Version showing it to have been added.

Daniel 8: 13. "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long the vision the daily and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"

14. "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

Unto two thousand and three hundred ereb/evening boqer/morning.
Six and part years

It is interesting that the angel Gabriel states to Daniel that ‘the vision concerns the time of the end’ in Daniel 8: 17 and the ‘last end’ in Daniel 8: 19.

Daniel 8: 16. "And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision."
17. "So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision."

At the end of the vision Daniel states that he does not understand it in verse 27. "And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king’s business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it."

My point is that when Gabriel shows up, in Daniel 9: he does so to explain the vision which lasts ‘2300 ereb boqer’ or six and a part years, 'concerns the time of the end' and 'last end' that Daniel ‘none understood.’

Daniel 9: 22. "And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding."

23. "At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision."

How can anyone therefore place (Dan 9: 24) being the 70 weeks, which is the explanation of the vision of Dan 8: at any other time to that which is clearly stated by Gabriel, to which the vision of 8: belongs from start to finish over a longer period other than 2300 ereb boqer?
The first part of the explanation, Gabriel mentions the 70 weeks!

We are standing very close to ‘the time of the end’ and ‘last end’ it is made clear in the overview of Daniel 7: when these periods begin.
In Daniel 7: see the lion’s situation in modern terms and the answer leaps out at what time we are close to when reading Daniel 8: and 9::hmm:
That's my two shillings worth.;)
PC.

mfowler12
Dec 28th 2008, 10:09 PM
We are standing very close to ‘the time of the end’ and ‘last end’ it is made clear in the overview of Daniel 7: when these periods begin.
In Daniel 7: see the lion’s situation in modern terms and the answer leaps out at what time we are close to when reading Daniel 8: and 9::hmm:
That's my two shillings worth.;)
PC.

Could you explain a bit more?

Jude
Dec 29th 2008, 01:20 AM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg


Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers’ fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
27 And both these kings’ hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcPq4CDr_r8&feature=related

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

Jude
Dec 29th 2008, 01:29 AM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/gates_of_hell-1.jpg


AN'TI, n. [Gr. See Ante.]

...in place of.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Antichrist.

In place of Christ...

"[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

--POPE LEO XIII

VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis]
...a substitute in office.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Vicar of Christ.

A substitute Christ...


"For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED."

-CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."

--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour....If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas...."

-- C. H. Spurgeon

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 29th 2008, 04:36 AM
Could you explain a bit more?


Hi mfowler12, let me try to explain a little further.
I would like to draw your attention to Daniel chapter 2: which no doubt you have read but as we read Daniel chapter 2: we are taken from the head of gold on the metal empire time statue through to the ‘feet of iron and potters clay’ where God, sets up His everlasting kingdom in verse 44.

Here is my Bible backup.
Daniel 2: 43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Within Daniel 7: 3 – 7 we have the four beast powers around as God, sets up His everlasting kingdom in verse 27 clarifying Daniel 2: 44 – 45.

Daniel 7: 3. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7: 27. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
These beasts are mentioned in Revelation 13: 2 as joined together as one.

Rev 13: 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The fourth beast of Daniel 2: 7. has only 42 months within the 2300 ereb boqer period.
Rev 13: 5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Would you like me to give you a little time to ponder on this then continue later about how close we are to the time of the end using Daniel 8: and Rev 19 and who the powers are that are involved?:bounce:

PC.

bennie
Dec 29th 2008, 04:05 PM
Hi Bennie, A day ends at sundown as Christ observed. Time is governed by matter travelling through space such as the Earth travels around the sun in 365.25 days or when it spins which is measured as a day.
God stopped time when He stopped the rotation of the Earth.

2 Kings 20: 10. And Hezekiah answered, “It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees.” 11So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the Lord, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.

Thus the day was lengthened, time was slowed down by about 40 minutes.



:hmm:


Hi PC.

I see what you are saying, but God did not stop time for 2000 years. Time has gone on. Time continued. 2000 years and 40 minutes is very different.

bennie

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 29th 2008, 09:05 PM
Hi PC.

I see what you are saying, but God did not stop time for 2000 years. Time has gone on. Time continued. 2000 years and 40 minutes is very different.

bennie

Hi Bennie, Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity came to my mind when I read your post.
I am in full agreement with you that God has allowed time to continue. I was trying to point out that God altered time and is the Creator of it and is not subject to it.
However I started to think about it further and realised that He did part Himself from Himself to become Emanuel, incarnate the second Adam and observed the commandments by the days, months, years that He created as an example to us of a sinless life.

Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
21. And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
22. He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

As you know it is the Father that knows the fullness of time.
Acts 1: 7. And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

I am not fully wise as to why God, has let time go on for so long but I do understand that He will say ‘time no longer’ as far as this sin laden world is concerned. When He destroys this old Earth, how then can we measure time in days or years?
No Earth no Earthly time spans until there is a new Earth.

Rev 10: 6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

I am sorry to quote so much Bible bennie, but I am just trying to show you why I think the way I do and that I do agree with you.

PC ;)

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 29th 2008, 09:40 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/gates_of_hell-1.jpg


AN'TI, n. [Gr. See Ante.]

...in place of.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Antichrist.

In place of Christ...

"[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

--POPE LEO XIII

VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis]
...a substitute in office.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Vicar of Christ.

A substitute Christ...


"For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED."

-CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."

--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour....If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas...."

-- C. H. Spurgeon





Hi Jude, who do you think is the ‘little horn?’
Who do you believe is the beast with the mortal wound?
PC

Jude
Dec 29th 2008, 10:57 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

After reading what I posted whats your take, on the head wound as an example, new age thought teaches the head wound was a mans correct? That train of thought makes things rather easy, "look there he is" that isn't it my friend, try taking the Old Roman Empire and its fall; to be raised in what you now see as modern day Rome. Brought back to life, makes sense to me what do you think?

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 30th 2008, 05:41 AM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

After reading what I posted whats your take, on the head wound as an example, new age thought teaches the head wound was a mans correct? That train of thought makes things rather easy, "look there he is" that isn't it my friend, try taking the Old Roman Empire and its fall; to be raised in what you now see as modern day Rome. Brought back to life, makes sense to me what do you think?

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif


Hi Jude, I know that mortal wounds do not heal on mortals.
Napoleon sent Bertier into Rome in1798AD who imprisoned pope Pious V1.

I don’t think pope Pious was around back in the time of Geneses 3: 15 apart from Adam and Eve, there were no other human beings so obviously the Lord was talking to an angelic being, one that can sustain a mortal wound in the following verse

Genesis 3: 15. “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”


May I ask you again as to whom you think is the ‘little horn?:)

PC

Jude
Dec 30th 2008, 06:28 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

There is a saying "All Roads Lead To Rome" every shred of evidence supports Rome will be the target once the final conflict begins,we have to stay focused otherwise we will be swallow up. This coming new age with the cashless society is right around the corner, all of the perspective players are in key positions. Rome has its own army led by the society of Jesus the Jesuit order. Due to infiltration over a vast period of time they are in every nook and cranny just waiting to wage war on an unsuspecting world. They are hard at work building a blasphemous engine. Follow this link these people mean business and their sole purpose is to see the world at the feet of the Papists.
And to make things worse they can be anybody you may bump into, doctors dentists lawyers car salesmen and yes even as a Pastor preaching down the Catholic church.

http://www.reformation.org/oath.html

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/globe8.gif

Prophecy Countdown
Dec 30th 2008, 08:05 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

There is a saying "All Roads Lead To Rome" every shred of evidence supports Rome will be the target once the final conflict begins,we have to stay focused otherwise we will be swallow up. This coming new age with the cashless society is right around the corner, all of the perspective players are in key positions. Rome has its own army led by the society of Jesus the Jesuit order. Due to infiltration over a vast period of time they are in every nook and cranny just waiting to wage war on an unsuspecting world. They are hard at work building a blasphemous engine. Follow this link these people mean business and their sole purpose is to see the world at the feet of the Papists.
And to make things worse they can be anybody you may bump into, doctors dentists lawyers car salesmen and yes even as a Pastor preaching down the Catholic church.

http://www.reformation.org/oath.html

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/globe8.gif





Hi Jude, with the greatest of respect there is no biblical evidence for your claims.


I respectfully ask you again the very simple question.

Do you know the identity of the ‘little horn?’


PC;)

Prophecy Countdown
Jan 2nd 2009, 12:59 AM
In another installment of my "where are we now" threads (part 2 for those that haven't read my other thread). I have a question for those that hold the viewpoint that we are currently in the seals/trumpets/bowls.

Where are we at, in your opinion and biblical reference, now in this process?

I've been reading through the bible and have seen something that catches my attention to this viewpoint and would like to compare your scriptures/opinions with what I've just read. :)

Hi mfowler12, I don’t want to jump into the seals trumpets and bowls period until I have covered the events that lead up to their time spans, it can be worked out.
Please let me remind you to quickly to glance over Page 2 Post 27 and Page 3 Post 31 to bring you back up to speed regarding the time of the end events.

Now before someone else tells me as we go through Daniel 8 that in verse 20 the word ‘Grecian’ is used by translators and that it supposedly ‘means the one power of Greece under Alexander The Great in 331BC’ please let me show you what the Bible says about that name and biblical facts within the visions that show inconsistencies within the ‘historic view.’

Alexander in 331BC does not fit within ‘the time of the end’ or ‘last end’ period concerning the vision of Dan 8: verses 17, 19 or within the 2300 ereb boqer time span of the vision in Dan 8: verse 13, 14.

Alexander the Great fought the battle on the Arbella Plains in 331BC, which does not fit the vision’s geographical location stated as the ‘Ulai river,’ modern name ‘Karun’ located in Iran. The Arbella Plains are around 1000 miles from the Ulai where the he goat and ram fight in verses 3, 4, 6, 7.

Also there are ‘TWO KINGS’ mentioned in verses 3 within the angel’s progression and interpretation in verse 20.
3, “Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.”

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

The Medo Persian Empire did not have two kings/leaders.

‘The higher came up last.’ Persia did not come up last the Medo/Persian empire was as one empire.

Let’s look at verse 21.

Dan 8: 21. “And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.”
Grecia 3120 is from the name ‘Yavan’ 3120.
So if we find the biblical explanation of Yavan then we have the nations involved within the vision. Yes?
Dear mfowler12, please bear with me on this and let me read the relevant verses to you firstly so there is no biblical misunderstanding as to the nations that the name ‘Yavan’ 3120 refers to.

Gen 10: 4. And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

5. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

There we have the lineage from Javan 3120 through his sons becoming the Western Gentile Nations, which includes Greece as a part member. Now who is the number one king/President/leader today of the Western nations?

Credits to THE EVERY DAY BIBLE DICTIONARY.
3120Yavan { yaw-vawn’}

probably from the same as 3196; TWOT - 855;

AV - Javan 7, Grecia 3, Greece 1; 11

GK - 3430 { ÷w:y:
Javan = “Ionia” or “Greece”
n pr m
1) a son of Japheth and grandson of Noah
n pr loc
2) Greece, Ionia, Ionians
2a) location of descendants of Javan

“Grecian. “Grec’cian, The term Grecian, Hellenist, denotes a Jew by birth or religion who spoke Greek.”
“It is used chiefly of foreign Jews and proselytes in contrast with the Hebrews speaking the vernacukar Hebrew or Aramaean.”
“Greeks was the term used for non-Jewish people”
“Greece, Greeks, Gre’cians.”
“The histories of Greece and Palestine are little connected with each other.”
“In Geneses. 10:2-5 Moses mentions the descendants of YAVAN as peopling the Isles of the Gentiles; and when the Hebrews came into contact with the Ionians of Asia Minor, and recognized them as the long-lost islanders of the western migration, it was natural that they should mark the similarity of sound between JAVAN Iones.”
“Accordingly the Old Testament word which is GRECIA in authorized Version GREECE, GREECS, etc., IS IN HEBREW JAVAN Dan. 8:21;”
‘THE EVERY DAY BIBLE DICTIONARY.’ (Formerly published as peloubet’s Bible Dictionary) Copyright 1925.,Inc, 1913by Holt, Rinehart and Winson 1967., Inc. Copyright 1971 by Zondervan Publishing House. Assigned to Zondervan Publishing House, Grand rapids Michigan.


Dear mfowler12, I need a break then I will explain how very close to the end we are using Daniel 7 and 8.:eek:

PC.:rolleyes:

Prophecy Countdown
Jan 4th 2009, 09:47 AM
The pages of Daniel are slowly turning!
My previous post 39 page 3 explained the word Grecia 3120 being found in Daniel 8: 21 from the name Yavan 3120 being the father of the Gentile Western nations from Gen 10: 4 and does not mean the nation Greece solely.

Gen 10: 4. And the sons of Javan3120 ; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

I will have to jump forward to Daniel 8: 21 to ID the he goat from the West to make all previous verses clear.
Danil 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: 3120 and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
The first king/leader of the Gentile Western nations is the President of the United States of America. The number one king/leader President.
The lion/Great Britain has Eagle’s wings/USA the US/GB alliance which has dealt with the shorter horn on the ram and Iran is next.


I will try and keep this short and leave a lot out to get to the point.

From the head to the feet of iron and clay on the Metal Empire Time Statue in Daniel 2: 41 – 43 is the time I want to home in on, particularly verse 44.

Daniel 2: 44. . And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The only notable powers that I know of at the time of the feet of iron and clay are found in what I call ‘The Overview’ of Daniel chapter 7 from the lion losing his eagle’s wings in verse 3 to where God sets up His kingdom in verse 27 sets that time period as being the time of the end and last end
Daniel 7: 3 – 7. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4.The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

What does Daniel 2: 44 mean by ‘the kingdom shall not be left to other people?

The answer is found in Daniel 7: 27. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
So can we agree that Daniel 7 is set at the time of the end and last end?

I will not continue with the other beasts of Daniel 7 or the little horn as we are wanting to pinpoint the LEAD UP and start of the time of the end and last end period of six and a part years which holds the seals, bowls, trumpets and three woes.
You see, Daniel 7 is the overview andis set to within the start and finish of the 2300 ereb/evening boqer/morning time span so Dan 7 goes straight there and we need to work up to the start of Daniel 7 where the lion losing his eagle’s wings starts the time of the end proper.
So I will show you where we are now and refer back to the overview of Daniel 7.

Daniel’s second vision places him specifically in Shushan, in the palace in the province Elam, which is by the river Ulai in verse 2. This is before the lion loses his eagle’s wings, as we shall see.
In verse 3 he sees a ram standing before the river from his vantage point the location is now set as to where the ram is positioned.
It has two horns, one being higher which comes up last. The higher denotes Iran, being much larger than Iraq which has been dealt with by the Alliance, the Lion with eagle’s wings/GB/USA/eagle alliance.

In verse 4 Daniel saw the ram “pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.” The ‘fundamentalists’ are pushing from Iran and countries in the area do not want Iran to have nuclear weapons and are getting nervous.

In verses 5 and 6 Daniel sees a he goat come a great distance from the WEST covering ‘the whole earth without touching the ground and it has a horn/leader between its eyes. US President, is number one of the Gentile nations.

How long does anyone think we have to wait for verse 7 to start?
In verse 7 the he goat rushes at the ram in the fury of his power and is bent on a quick result and uses the full force of his power to do what ever is necessary.

The he goat is extremely angry at the ram and breaks both the ram’s horns and the ram is left on the ground powerless and no other nation is able to do a thing to help the ram.
In verse 8 The he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn/leader is ‘broken;’ and four notable ones rise.

After the attack on Iran the USA/GB alliance will split the lion/GB will have to stand alone without its eagle’s wings partner, the Eagle. The UK in Daniel 7: 3 is made to stand.
This is my opinion only. ( It will be a pyrrhic victory, the cost will break the American economy.)
So Britain now will stand with the bear/Russia the leopard and fourth beast and that is the section of Daniel 7: 3 to 7 of the overview.

These four beasts are the four notable ones mentioned in the progression and expansion of Dan 8: verse 8 where the little horn pops up out of one of the notable ones.

9. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

We are now heading for trouble in the Middle East, that I can see when I read Daniel 11.
I believe the little horn is Satan, because of the following reasons.
10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them

Rev 12: 3. “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.”

4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.”

What does Satan/little horn do to the place of the daily, which is the ‘outer court’ of the Temple.
Note the word Sacrifice is in italics in the KJV showing it to have been added and was not in these verses of Dan 8: 11, 12, 13. 11: 31. 12: 11 found in the Ancient Sea Scrolls.

The following verses should translate the place of the daily also called the outer court.
11.Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12. And an host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Now we can get an idea of what is about to go on.
Rev 11: 2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty two months.

Daniel 8; 13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
The Answer in verse 14 says in Aramaic ‘2300 ereb boqer’ meaning ‘2300 evening morning’ before the sanctuary in cleansed.

14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15. And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16. And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

For the angel Gabriel to make Daniel understand the chezev/vision/s he must come real close to Daniel to make the time of the vision clear and he scared the living daylights out of Daniel making that specific point.

17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Well, I need to have a break, however I will continue later.
Maranatha :hug:
PC