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Romber
Dec 19th 2008, 12:10 PM
I know there is some debate on this as some say it's not on this Earth and others say that it is in the Earth and some even say there is no such thing (not good!) I was reading Philippians last night and a particular verse really jumped out to me that screams specifically Hell is located.

Philippians 2:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%202:10%20;&version=31;)


10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

The verse lists the heavens (presumably everything above Earth;Space/universe), everything on Earth (Humans, Animals, Insects etc.) but then it says under the Earth.

What could possibly be under the Earth that the verse is referring to? Hell would fit the description as eventually even Satan will have to acknowledge his name. This verse makes it almost impossible to believe Hell is anywhere else but the center of the earth (as for the time being).

Any thoughts?

[oh, and this is way off topic, but why doesn't this board support some BB Code such as the tags?]

divaD
Dec 19th 2008, 02:46 PM
I know there is some debate on this as some say it's not on this Earth and others say that it is in the Earth and some even say there is no such thing (not good!) I was reading Philippians last night and a particular verse really jumped out to me that screams specifically Hell is located.

Philippians 2:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%202:10%20;&version=31;)



The verse lists the heavens (presumably everything above Earth;Space/universe), everything on Earth (Humans, Animals, Insects etc.) but then it says under the Earth.

What could possibly be under the Earth that the verse is referring to? Hell would fit the description as eventually even Satan will have to acknowledge his name. This verse makes it almost impossible to believe Hell is anywhere else but the center of the earth (as for the time being).

Any thoughts?

[oh, and this is way off topic, but why doesn't this board support some BB Code such as the tags?]



The Greek defines 'under the Earth' as 1) subterranean
1a) refers to those who dwell in the world below, departed souls

The Greek word is katachthonios.

Personally, I've always believed that hell was inside the earth. I just don't believe that it's the same place as the lake of fire, since hell will be cast into it.

David Taylor
Dec 19th 2008, 02:54 PM
Hell isn't a phyisical location that we could climb into a spaceship and drive into; (just like Heaven).

Both places are abodes of the dead, and in an environment that cannot be crossed into or out of by our own choosing; but is one that God alone controls.

The best description of Hell in the bible, and the most detailed explanation of it and our present world being places that cannot be traveled to and from is in the following passage; taught by Jesus about Hell.

Notice the phrases I highlight in bold below; they focus on phrases show how people can and can not travel between where we are and Hell; and where Hell is and where the righteous dead are either.

"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:19

So you can see Hell is a real place; but it is not a place that we can go to from our present world; nor is it a place that the wicked contained within it can escape from or leave.

The tricky part with the word 'hell' sometimes, depending on the English translation; is it often describes the tormented, fiery place of the dead that we all commonly thick of as hell like in this passage; but in other passages it is rendered to just mean the grave or tomb. The context of how the word hell is used, because the older Elizabethon and Middle English useage of the word at times was interchangeable for the grave.

We know now that hell isn't under the ground, or in the middle of the Earth; but is at an unreachable destination for living mortals; reserved solely for the wicked dead upon God's timing and determination. Our earlier ancestors weren't as savy to know the structure of the earth, and it was a common myth that hell was underground below us.

threebigrocks
Dec 19th 2008, 04:27 PM
Death itself and the place that holds death is thrown into more death where death is always dead where one is conscious of death and torment eternally.

Show where death is good, where death is a covering pleasing to God. It's not. How can covered with death be good or, at this point in God's grand plan, anything but permanent? It's final. Done. Death reigns forever.

I can bury an old car. I can bury my dog. My dog can bury a bone. Physically, they are buried. This isn't a physical thing. It's spiritual. We all die - physically. That ought not even be a consideration when looking at these verses. That's across the board for every living thing. Death will come.

Death spiritually - that's something we live now and eventually for eternity if we do not not believe. Spirit doesn't die, it doesn't sleep, it is always aware. That is the death we can avoid. Greek translation or not, the eternal nature of the spirit must be seen. That doesn't change no matter the translation.

mikebr
Dec 19th 2008, 04:31 PM
How's that? Death itself and the place that holds death is thrown into more death where death is always dead where one is conscious of death and torment eternally.

Show where death is good, where death is a covering pleasing to God. It's not. How can covered with death be good or, at this point in God's grand plan, anything but permanent? It's final. Done. Death reigns forever.

I can bury an old car. I can bury my dog. My dog can bury a bone. Physically, they are buried. This isn't a physical thing. It's spiritual. We all die - physically. That ought not even be a consideration when looking at these verses. That's across the board for every living thing. Death will come.

Death spiritually - that's something we live now and eventually for eternity if we do not not believe. Spirit doesn't die, it doesn't sleep, it is always aware. That is the death we can avoid. Greek translation or not, the eternal nature of the spirit must be seen. That doesn't change no matter the translation.


Precious in the sight of the Lord is the Death of His Saints.

David Taylor
Dec 19th 2008, 04:36 PM
Wow, that sure was quite a read.

In simplistic terms, for those who prefer them.....

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


Philippians 2:10-11 is simply saying this...

There will come a time (probably at the final great judgment), where all of humanity will without doubt and without reservation; fully accept that Christ is Lord of all.

Not that he is 'their' Lord, but that He truly is 'THE' Lord; as the Bible presented Him.

theBelovedDisciple
Dec 19th 2008, 04:47 PM
Remember folks... the last 'enemy' to be done away with or dealt with, will be 'death' itself... it will be put under God's feet... till He makes 'all enemies' His footstool.... Some time in the future there will be no more death.. the curse of sin will be 'no more'...... and 'death' will be but a passing memory...

God calls 'death' an 'enemy'.. it was never in His plans.. but thru His foreknowledge and longsuffering grace and mercy... He still provided a way to defeat it,, that is 'death'...... and He did it thru His Own Begotten........ that's the Beauty of what Christ did... on that bloody tree.. this planned even before the Foundation of the World...He defeated 'death', Hell, and the grave by His own physcial death and subsequent resurrection.. that thru Him .. those who believe on Him will have Eternal Lilfe... and this a gift... the gift of Eternal Life...

As the first Adam failed in the Garden.. the 2nd Adam.. who was made a quickening Spirit... did not.. but accomplished and conquered just as God had Planned.. and this from the Foundation of the World...

What Christ did on the Cross.. God manifest in the flesh... is foolishness to the Greeks and a stumblingstone to the Jews... but to us who are Saved by Him and Believe.. whether Gentile or Jew..... it is the Power of God...

To Him be the Glory Forever and Forever! amen and amen.....

Romber
Dec 19th 2008, 04:51 PM
Hell isn't a phyisical location that we could climb into a spaceship and drive into;

So best put, Hell doesn't really have a physical location so couldn't it still reside in the center of the Earth. It would be on the same dimension as heaven and stuff but "spiritually" be located in the center of the Earth?

Emanate
Dec 19th 2008, 04:56 PM
How's that? Death itself and the place that holds death is thrown into more death where death is always dead where one is conscious of death and torment eternally.

Show where death is good, where death is a covering pleasing to God. It's not. How can covered with death be good or, at this point in God's grand plan, anything but permanent? It's final. Done. Death reigns forever.

I can bury an old car. I can bury my dog. My dog can bury a bone. Physically, they are buried. This isn't a physical thing. It's spiritual. We all die - physically. That ought not even be a consideration when looking at these verses. That's across the board for every living thing. Death will come.

Death spiritually - that's something we live now and eventually for eternity if we do not not believe. Spirit doesn't die, it doesn't sleep, it is always aware. That is the death we can avoid. Greek translation or not, the eternal nature of the spirit must be seen. That doesn't change no matter the translation.


I do not recall the word death being mentioned. Mike stated a fact. Sheol/Hades are translated as grave/pit/hell. We can discuss death all day long, but it does not change how these two words have been translated.

RabbiKnife
Dec 19th 2008, 04:58 PM
Hell is in Michigan.

I've seen photos of it frozen over...

Old Earther
Dec 19th 2008, 04:59 PM
Death reigns forever.

So the Bible says that death will be swallowed up in victory and that it will be destroyed in the lake of fire, and you think this means that death reigns forever?

mikebr
Dec 19th 2008, 04:59 PM
Hell is in Michigan.

I've seen photos of it frozen over...


Well there is a possibility that the Falcons are going to make the playoffs. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

RabbiKnife
Dec 19th 2008, 05:01 PM
Well there is a possibility that the Falcons are going to make the playoffs. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

No, brother, you got that wrong.

That's not a sign that hell has frozen over.

That's the Fifth Horse of the Apocalypse!!!

:D:D:D

mikebr
Dec 19th 2008, 05:13 PM
No, brother, you got that wrong.

That's not a sign that hell has frozen over.

That's the Fifth Horse of the Apocalypse!!!

:D:D:D



So if they win the Super Bowl we won't be here to see it;:pp we have been raptured.:pp

threebigrocks
Dec 19th 2008, 05:32 PM
So the Bible says that death will be swallowed up in victory and that it will be destroyed in the lake of fire, and you think this means that death reigns forever?

1 Corinthians 15
53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

For those who are perishable and don't put on the imperishable and the mortal who doesn't put on immortality - yes. Death isn't swallowed up for those who aren't in Christ. They experience the second death. For those who put on the imperishable and immortality we escape the second death. There is no death that can harm us, because the born again believer has life through Christ.

mikebr
Dec 19th 2008, 05:53 PM
1 Corinthians 15
53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

For those who are perishable and don't put on the imperishable and the mortal who doesn't put on immortality - yes. Death isn't swallowed up for those who aren't in Christ. They experience the second death. For those who put on the imperishable and immortality we escape the second death. There is no death that can harm us, because the born again believer has life through Christ.



The KJV actually says
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Grave here is hades.

David Taylor
Dec 19th 2008, 05:58 PM
The KJV actually says
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Grave here is hades.

Grave=tomb in this context.

You gotta read where Paul is quoting this from in the O.T.

Hosea 13:14 "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. "

The resurrection is the victory over death and the grave for believers.
We will never die again, and the grave will not hold our bodies anylonger.

threebigrocks
Dec 19th 2008, 05:58 PM
The KJV actually says
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Grave here is hades.

Okay, that's fine and true.

Doesn't change the context of not every one of those names is the same place or meaning or the context of 1 Corinthians 16 any different. We all die once, the grave can't hold the one who puts on imperishable and immortality.

VerticalReality
Dec 19th 2008, 06:01 PM
This thread has taken a wrong turn and has gone the way of the dodo. I'm going to close this thread down, and if anyone has any questions please address them in the Chat to the Moderators forum.

Thanks.